ESPN reporting that Pierre has been traded......

by Chaim Witz on Dec 7, 2005 2:06 AM CST Comment 12 comments

...to the Chicago Cubs.

No names yet, but they just reported that Pierre was traded to the Cubs for "3 young pitchers".

Like I said, nothing more reported, but apparently a deal has been reached. I guess we'll see.

Here is my take on this:

I like Pierre and would have liked to have him with the Rangers

I would not have included Diamond in the deal...at all. The other two, I'm not sure about.

I would have played the fire sale angle and sent Nix packing with something, but that's about it. After all, we would be taking the salary off the Marlins' hands.

Anyway, now we can all stop bashing Pierre, and watch him ignite the Cubs offense. Say what you will about the guy, but those that don't see his "gamer" attitude, are missing something and PAYING WAY TOO MUCH ATTENTION TO STATS.

I wouldn't have given up much, but he's got some game. While the Cubs have a spark in their lineup, we are looking at another season with Delucci leading off.

Yeah, Pierre can't help this team.....

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Well, Mitre is one of them......reportedly

I just heard that Sergio Mitre is one of the pitchers and the other two are still referred to as "prospects".

Just FYI

I miss 1989. I miss 1995. Please make me miss another season in 2006.

by Chaim Witz on Dec 7, 2005 2:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I agree Pierre could have helped this club. I would have gone with Nix and Rupe, but NONE of our top pitching prospects (DVD or Hurley).

The Cubs offense just got better.

But if the Marlins were holding out for one of the DVD trio, then good ridence.

Somebody's got to win the West in '06. Why not Texas???

by thedirkatron on Dec 7, 2005 2:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

good times

i'm glad the Rangers stayed out of this one.

the cubbies gave up Sergio Mitre, Renyel Pinto and Ricky Nolasco.

Here is what Sickels had to say about the prospects:

5) Reynel Pinto, LHP
Clobbered in Triple-A, 9.53 ERA in six starts. Demoted to Double-A and recovered, going 10-3, 2.78 in 21 starts, but he was repeating that level so good performance there doesn't tell us much.. Not sure what to make of him at this point.

12) Ricky Nolasco, RHP
Went 14-3, 2.89 in 27 starts for West Tennessee, 173/46 K/BB in 162 innings. Solid across the board, main problem was that he was repeating the league, but I do like him.

I guess Mitre wasn't a top 20 prospect before 2005.

by alon91 on Dec 7, 2005 2:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Mitre

Mitre wasn't a 2005 top 20 prospect cause he'd exhausted his prospect eligibility in 2004. (The limit of which I'm pretty sure is 50 IP in the bigs.)

BA ranked him the #15 prospect on the Cubbies going into 2004, just for a historical perspective.

He's very comporable to Joaquin Benoit IMO, if you're looking for a Rangers perspective.

Somebody's got to win the West in '06. Why not Texas???

by thedirkatron on Dec 7, 2005 3:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ranger comparables

Who would you compare the three prospects to in out system. You guys already have given a few.

Mitre- Benoit
Pinto-?
Nolasco->

by huskers22 on Dec 7, 2005 4:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Marlins asked the Rangers

For Laird, Kinsler, and Hurley to get Pierre according to T.R. Sullivan...

by brian mac on Dec 7, 2005 7:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

Just read that. If it's true, that's ridiculous. Compared to what they got from the Cubs all three of our players are better than any one of the ones they gave up.

I guess I might have been pleased if we dealt Laird for Pierre straight up, but I'd rather keep Hurley, and I think Kinsler needs to be kept in case we finally get around to dealing Sori.

Somebody's got to win the West in '06. Why not Texas???

by thedirkatron on Dec 7, 2005 7:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Does this mean that

Patterson is now even more available?

by rbarton on Dec 7, 2005 8:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

"Gamer Attitude"

I had no idea that Buck posted on this site, or at least Dusty Baker posts here.

Comparing last year's Win Shares both players posted a 14. That is both player is equally valuable, but in different ways.

Dellucci has a HUGE advantage at the plate.
Dellucci - .251/.367/.513 & .288 BA/RISP
Pierre - .269/.326/.354 & .269 BA/RISP
I can' see how Pierre is an upgrade leading off.

On the defensive front, Pierre has 2.9 Fielding Win Shares, while Dellucci has 1.0. However, Pierre only ranked 49th in both leagues, which is to say he is not a premier defender. I understand defense is important, but he is not worth the offensive drop off.

Lastly, the dollar per Win Share for both players looks like this:
Dellucci - $60,714 per Win Share
Pierre - $264,285 per Win Share

by pfe1223 on Dec 7, 2005 8:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

My biggest problem

with Dellucci leading off is his ability to strikeout in important situations. He struck out 121 times in 435 AB. That is awful considering he never really faced left handers. I wanted a leadoff like Pierre (struck out 45 times) who will put the bat on the ball and can let his legs get him on.
Oh well if the Marlins really wanted Laird, Kinsler and Hurley they are insane. I have a feeling that we will be bait for every deal that is made this offseason and that we will most likely come away with Batista (Adam's choice for 2006 AL CY Young while Jerome Williams takes it in the NL).

by DIESCTBRS on Dec 7, 2005 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dellucci

Is not an ideal lead off man, especially since he can't left-handed pitching. What is it going to take to get Josh Phelps? From 2002 - 2004 he has hit .300/.364/.522 against lefties. He only made $800,000 last year, and only had 158 AB's. It's not like he is an integral part of their team, so a low level prospect or two should get the job done.

by pfe1223 on Dec 7, 2005 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Heh....

I love statistics. They can tell any story you want them to.

Just a few items of note regarding my affinity of Pierre over Delucci, in all respects. (Understand, as I stated in my original post, I would not have given up much for him)

I would take Pierre's ability to lead off against both righties and lefties, to Delucci's act only going against righties.
I would take Pierre's ability to give us some speed IF he gets on base, or turns a single in to a double...and so forth.
I would take Pierre's ability to put the ball in play and beat out a few throws.
This is the most poignant point of how stats can be misleading. Although people are pointing at the defense between the two players, that was not my original intent. However, Pierre obviously played a more demanding position. Here is the kicker though....... A player with Pierre's speed/ability can get to balls that others cannot. Its like a shortstop with great range.....Shortstop A has great range and agility and Shortstop B has a solid glove and great arm. Shortstop A gets to some balls that Shortstop B couldn't hope to get to. Due to this, Shortstop A may get a glove on a ball that Shortstop B may never get to. Although Shortstop A couldn't field it cleanly, he stopped it from going into left or center field. Heck, he may even get an error on the play because "he got his glove on it". Shortstop B has one less error than Shortstop A because he didn't get his glove on the ball in the first place. He might have not even been in the same area code! His fielding percentage may look better, but did he 'really' make a play to help the team?

The same could be said for a speedy CF player. Hey, at least he had a shot at making the play. The slower guy never even got there to play it on a hop or keep it from reaching the wall.

Stats can support any argument, but sometimes, even the identical stats can support opposing points of view on the same issue.

I don't dislike Delucci, but he shouldn't be our leadoff hitter. He should be what he is. One of those guys that a quality team needs to have.

Pierre can ignite a game with pure speed and at least putting the ball in play. The defensive comparison between these two shouldn't even be made, and isn't even close to being fair to either player.

A "gamer attitude" is not exclusive to guys who don't shave sometimes. Its someone who uses all their tools to make something happen and fight to win.....no matter how good or bad they are talent-wise.

I miss 1989. I miss 1995. Please make me miss another season in 2006.

by Chaim Witz on Dec 8, 2005 7:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs