2008

by BAC on Nov 15, 2006 2:54 AM CST Comment 27 comments

So, I've been reading LSB pretty much all season, but I've never posted till now (I'm in law school and busy as hell). Anyway, it seems like everyone on this site is freaking out about next year. I'm worried that the Rangers might choke over this off-season and screw themselves over for next year.

I mean, this free agent class is pretty lame. Matsuzaka was the only potential ace. Zito, Schmidt, Padilla, Lilly, ect. are all good but with serious problems. Soriano is the only top-flight hitter (and I worry about his commitment...Soriano may have pulled a Dampier and gone crazy during his contract season only to regress next year). Lee and Ramirez are both better than average hitters.

But look at next year's (potential) free agents. It's scary.

Carlos Zambrano, Joe Nathan, Chris Carpenter, Curt Shilling, Jason Jennings, Bartolo Colon, John Smoltz, Jake Westbrook.

Ichiro, Andruw Jones, Carlos Guillen, Vernon Wells, Pudge, Michael Young, Torii Hunter, Marcus Giles, Adam Dunn, Milton Bradley, Jermaine Dye, Brandon Inge,

That's a ridiculous list, especially compared to this year's meager selections. Now I'm sure that some of those guys (please God, Michael Young) will sign early, but it will still be an amazing class.

Basically, I'm worried that the Rangers are going to be so focused on 2007 that they are going to give some big, long-term contracts to Zito types and not have any money for 2008. I'm not good with the whole money situation, so maybe someone smarter can figure out what salaries the Rangers have coming off the books after next season.

If we go get Zito, Padilla, Frank Thomas, and Brian Roberts, what $$ will be left?

Because Wells, Dye, and Zambrano sounds a lot better

P.S. What's the deal with all the lawyers on LSB? Weird.

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Lawyers

And teachers, regulators, and analysts ... also engineers ... love a place where a good argument, well presented, is usually available.

by Ed Coffin on Nov 15, 2006 2:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm,

that's a good point.

That's certainly the main reason why I started posting on the Rangers ESPN boards when I did.

Also, that's a large part of why I read the BTF forums, though, good, well-presented arguments seem to be dying somewhat over there (or at least there seems to be a lot more chaff than there used to be).

Req

by Requiem on Nov 15, 2006 3:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

BTF?

I stopped posting on their forums.

Too many judgmental mindreaders for my taste.

But maybe that's just me...

"Despite being post Revolution, do you have any idea of the writings of Tocqueville? Read the bible and get back to me with tacit consent." Booyahcaveman

by Brian Thomas on Nov 15, 2006 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Heh....

Too many judgmental mindreaders for my taste.

Maybe. The quality certainly has deteriorated....

But at least those who do do the judgmental mindreading actually have something to contribute.

Not only that, but they usually outline what they're thinking, and why they're arguing what they're arguing.

Dustin at least seems to like to argue just for the sake of arguing which doesn't add anything to the conversation. Notice, that he'll add in some random post with no content just to get the last word in, even if he doesn't really have an argument.

I find that it's pointless to try and discuss things with people in that mindset.

I'm more than willing to discuss things with people who have a different idea on things, and I'm also willing to have my mind changed about things.

I'm not willing to deal with people who want to argue just for the sake of trying to show that they're always right or who argue just for the sake of arguing.

Req

by Requiem on Nov 15, 2006 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is getting a little old, man

Grow up. Let it go.

Nobody cares about your fantasy or video game teams.

by Dustin on Nov 15, 2006 8:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

See....

this is the exact reason why I refuse to respond to Dustin any more.

He feels the need to have the last word, every time.

It's like clockwork, and yet again it adds nothing to the discussion. Not to mention it show his own childishness, when he's supposed to be the great arbiter of taste and refinement around here? I'm not the one who pretends to be that, plus I'm perfectly fine with my own faults. One thing I'll bet Dustin probably can't say.

It's that combination plus the judgmental mindreading that I'd rather not respond to. Plus, the lack of sufficient content to make it worthwhile. At least, Sharky gives me a laugh or two, every now and then. Dustin just becomes a droning, preaching bore.

Req

by Requiem on Nov 16, 2006 1:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There is no discussion

And I'm pretty confident I'm not the one being childish right now. You want the last word? Fine. Respond to this and then LET IT GO.

Nobody cares about your fantasy or video game teams.

by Dustin on Nov 16, 2006 5:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Requiem and Dustin

sittin in a tree
k i s s i n g

Get a room. The sexual tension is at an all time high.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday/ --Kevin Tillman's tribute to Pat Tillman.

by DJCahill on Nov 16, 2006 6:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

don't think so

Even if I were gay Requiem's too angry to jump in the sack with me, so he's not much use.

by Dustin on Nov 16, 2006 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

Nice one, Dan.

Req

by Requiem on Nov 16, 2006 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

good arguments

don't forget that some of us are just obstinate and opinionated! Plus, most folks here know at least something about some team or player that I don't. The collective knowledge on the site is fairly impressive, though the collective penchant for sometimes letting arguments turn into personal attacks is not so much.

by t ball on Nov 15, 2006 8:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you mean 2008?

Because that's just what I have been espousing....

I want the Rangers to make their run in 2008 after signing Pettitte this offseason (likely won't happen), and Zambrano and Wells in 2007-08 offseason.

Wells is probably the best combination of offense and defense in CF since Beltran and quite arguably could be BETTER than Beltran.

And Zambrano IS a #1, though his peripherals are worrying me somewhat.

BTW, Carpenter, Nathan, and Young all have options which will likely be exercized by their teams.

Not to mention, that it's possible that some of these guys will be locked up in the future (a la Oswalt).

Otherwise, you could start talking about the free agent class of 2008-09, with Johan Santana, Carpenter, and Bonderman hitting the market...

But yes my ideal situation if I were GM were to sign Pettitte this off-season, then sign Zambrano and Wells in 2007-08.

That gives a rotation of:

Zambrano
Millwood
Pettitte
Danks/Volquez/Hurley
one of those not above

with a lineup of
Laird
Teixeira
Kinsler
Young
Blalock
Cruz?/maybe someone else
Wells
somebody

which is a VERY solid pitching staff and lineup.

Don't know why there're a lot of lawyers on this site, but there are also a lot of lawyers on BTF also. Don't know what hypothesis to throw out there based on that....

I am not a lawyer, BTW.

Req

by Requiem on Nov 15, 2006 3:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

2008

Yeah, it's late. I changed it. Thanks.

by BAC on Nov 15, 2006 3:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pettite

Lets please end the unwarranted Astro obsession on this board?

Fire Ron Washington, Bill Parcells, Avery Johnson, and Jon Daniels

by Sharky on Nov 15, 2006 3:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Zambrano

Is NOT going to hit the market. True aces don't hit the market anymore. The Cubs are gonna lock him long term this winter. Bet on it.

A Noble Spirit Embiggens The Smallest Man.

by thedirkatron on Nov 15, 2006 7:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

this is a theory

that was brought up on espn. I don't really see why people think this is true. I mean, it makes sense if Zambrano got locked up last year, but months away from his big payday he's just going to take a hometown discount? When he knows he's the #1 commodity in the FA class?

I don't buy it.

by ab03 on Nov 15, 2006 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Who said anything about

a hometown discount? He's gonna get his money. And if he gets it now (say 5yrs/75mil), he gets the assurance that even if he blows out his elbow this year, he's still ging to be stinking filthy rich for the rest of his life. It makes more sense for a pitcher to lock himself up long term, IMO, than a hitter, cause pitchers have a greater chance of a career ruining injury.

Who was the last true "ace" to hit the market? Pedro? Randy Johnson? I guess maybe Rocket, but he was never gonna go anywhere but Houston after his faux retirement.

Oswalt, Santana, Halladay and company have all been locked up well before they hit the market.

A Noble Spirit Embiggens The Smallest Man.

by thedirkatron on Nov 15, 2006 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Cubs are smart

they'll lock him up now, they'll still have to pay him a lot, but less than after the 'market' jacks up the price for top pitchers even further this winter.

by t ball on Nov 15, 2006 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but why...

...would he want to sign a new deal now, before the new market has been defined? For his sake, I would hope that his agent is smart enough to take a "wait and see" approach to negotiations.

We've got the bats, we've got the gloves, we've got the Manager, now let's go out and get some pitching!

by rangersfan34 on Nov 15, 2006 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

maybe not right now this very second, but sometime this Winter he'll sign an extension.

He could play out this season and then try to hit the market and probably make a few (million) extra bucks, but the risk there is tremendous.

What if he tears a rotator cuff? What if he has a smaller injury that, though it doesn't derail his career, sends his performance into a freefall?

To leave a 5yr/80mil contract on the table so you can go out and try to get 6yrs/96mil is a big risk, and a lot of pitchers see that.

A Noble Spirit Embiggens The Smallest Man.

by thedirkatron on Nov 16, 2006 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

pedro

was a free agent after the 2004 season so its not like it was a lifetime away. or, are you saying he's not an ace?

by ab03 on Nov 15, 2006 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think

at that time, that he was an "ace" anymore, but that's semantics.

I probably should've said, YOUNG ace.

Older, physically deteriorating aces are available from time to time (like Pedro or Glavine), as are some special cases (like Clemens). Other than that most "aces" will have some serious warts and/or question marks, like Zito, Schmidt, Burnett, Millwood, or Pavano.

I think you'll be very hard pressed to find another young in his prime ace hit the market any time soon.

A Noble Spirit Embiggens The Smallest Man.

by thedirkatron on Nov 16, 2006 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Beltran

Beltran has a career .860 OPS. In case you're not familiar with baseball, that isn't all the special.

But another glowing opinion of an overrated ex-Astro national leaguer from you or Burnt..

Fire Ron Washington, Bill Parcells, Avery Johnson, and Jon Daniels

by Sharky on Nov 15, 2006 3:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry

Career .847 OPS.

Tommy Goodwin would be proud.

Fire Ron Washington, Bill Parcells, Avery Johnson, and Jon Daniels

by Sharky on Nov 15, 2006 3:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Beltran was a longtime Ranger FA

His defense would be considered garbage by that crew.

Guaranteed.

They could prove me wrong by not loving Astros, or holding a Ranger FA's defense in high regard, but I've never seen any examples of that yet. And I do mean, ever.

Fire Ron Washington, Bill Parcells, Avery Johnson, and Jon Daniels

by Sharky on Nov 15, 2006 3:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ignoring

The Astros virus you espouse, Beltran is a better all around OF'er than has ever played in a Ranger uniform. He isn't the overall best out there, maybe, but is close. I don't think a stint in Houston wrecked his career ... LOL!

by Ed Coffin on Nov 15, 2006 4:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanx, Shark, at least I'm not

the only one on here who responds to his own comments! Where does all this HoustonHate come from? I'm not crazy about the town either, but I have to admit rooting for the Astro's and the Oiler's a little bit over the years (in 2nd place, obviously) not so much with the Texans. Maybe Sharky explained this bias previously, but I missed it.....

Also, I guess lawyer's like a good argument.......

by tklawless on Nov 16, 2006 9:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs