HELP!!! -- The greatest players of all-time

by devo on Dec 18, 2006 11:28 AM CST

Hey guys. I'm visiting from AN.

I'm putting together a list of the greatest players of all-time and as one step in the process, I'm enlisting fan support.

As members of the sportsblog community (that aren't Angels fans), you are probably smarter than most, so help me out.

Click here to see the nominees and vote on your own Top 10.

Thanks

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Comments

I think you should look

to the excellent series of posts that thedirkatron, LSB Community Prospect Project, has put together here for a format and way to rank them.

"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Noted Writer and Philosopher, Lindsey Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 18, 2006 11:30 AM CST reply actions

AHAHAHAH

Rickey Henderson greater than Mickey Mantle. Now THAT is funny.

by pablo @ Lone Star Ball on Dec 18, 2006 11:53 AM CST reply actions

Ummmm...

I believe those are listed alphabetically.

Smoke some fags and play some pool, pretend you never went to school.

by LoneStarBallUser on Dec 18, 2006 12:00 PM CST up reply actions

Not to mention

that for some reason you chose Mickey Mantle rather than Babe Ruth to uphold the list's ridiculosity.

by a bebop a rebop on Dec 18, 2006 4:54 PM CST up reply actions

I'm not sure if you'll pull this...

...over to your poll on AN, but I didn't want to create an account there, as I'd hate to be associated with the A's in any way other than this type of project...

With that being said, here's my list:

Ted Williams
Babe Ruth
Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Lou Gehrig
Hank Aaron
Ty Cobb
Honus Wagner
Rogers Hornsby
Stan Musial

I hope this helps your project...

We've got the bats, we've got the gloves, we've got the Manager, now let's go out and get some pitching!

by rangersfan34 on Dec 18, 2006 11:53 AM CST reply actions

hmm

Joe DiMaggio wasn't good enough?

by pablo @ Lone Star Ball on Dec 18, 2006 11:54 AM CST up reply actions

He didn't list him in the Top 20...

...candidates, so I took that to mean he wasn't an option.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Dimaggio, nor do I think he's Top 10 all-time...

We've got the bats, we've got the gloves, we've got the Manager, now let's go out and get some pitching!

by rangersfan34 on Dec 18, 2006 11:57 AM CST up reply actions

He had a very low career value and his peak wasn't that high (both compared to the competition, the 50 or so other greatest hitters of all-time). Where he shined was in the 1540 game (10 season) average but it was not enough to get him in the top 20.

by devo on Dec 18, 2006 12:08 PM CST up reply actions

thanks ...

this'll do just fine.

I've got an account here and on at least a half a dozen other team's sites, including all of our AL West rivals and the Mariners. A little trash talking and cross team discussions are often worthwhile.

by devo on Dec 18, 2006 12:05 PM CST up reply actions

Very true...

...about the trash talking. It's healthy to dislike your opponents!

We've got the bats, we've got the gloves, we've got the Manager, now let's go out and get some pitching!

by rangersfan34 on Dec 18, 2006 12:19 PM CST up reply actions

LOL

"All our AL West rivals and the Mariners"

Ha ha ha.

Now that's a nice burn.

Jason Botts: 500+ AB's in '07, or bust!!!

by thedirkatron on Dec 18, 2006 12:54 PM CST up reply actions

Babe Ruth # 2?

Blasphemer...

Penalty Box? DONT THINK SO!!!!!!! And i wish everyone could stop writing that crap cause its gay...SUPER GAY!!!! NYTXfan!!!

by Brian Thomas on Dec 18, 2006 1:01 PM CST up reply actions

I assume you'd put him at...

...Number One? It's hard to validate my position, but I think Williams typically gets overlooked because of all of the time he missed due to his Marine duties. Looking at his numbers and factoring in what he may have done if he hadn't missed all of that time is what pushes him to the top, IMO... (Plus, the guy was our Manager at one time...)

We've got the bats, we've got the gloves, we've got the Manager, now let's go out and get some pitching!

by rangersfan34 on Dec 18, 2006 1:09 PM CST up reply actions

Yes I'd put him at #1

Ruth
Mays
Williams

I don't have time right now to say why...

Penalty Box? DONT THINK SO!!!!!!! And i wish everyone could stop writing that crap cause its gay...SUPER GAY!!!! NYTXfan!!!

by Brian Thomas on Dec 18, 2006 1:13 PM CST up reply actions

No worries...

...I wish I had easy access to all of the stats just to see how everybody rates out in the various categories. Ruth may very well prove to be Number One if I analyzed the numbers more thoroughly...

Just as an aside, I also don't think Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever. I tend to disagree with the consensus on these types of things.

We've got the bats, we've got the gloves, we've got the Manager, now let's go out and get some pitching!

by rangersfan34 on Dec 18, 2006 1:19 PM CST up reply actions

www.baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com is a great stat for historical counting and rate stats, that's my number one reference. ESPN is great for current splits. The Hardball Times is the only site I've found for recent Win Shares, and I think it's Baseball Prospectus where you can get stats like VORP and WARP.

by a bebop a rebop on Dec 18, 2006 2:59 PM CST up reply actions

Thanks!

I'll have to check those out when I have more time...

We've got the bats, we've got the gloves, we've got the Manager, now let's go out and get some pitching!

by rangersfan34 on Dec 18, 2006 3:05 PM CST up reply actions

Seems to me

that Instead of going WARP or VORP you should be going WAP or VOP for hall of fame. How you do versus average players should be the criteria, not how well you do against replacement players.

This would tend to help those with high peak value at the expense of the merely good for a long period of time.

"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Noted Writer and Philosopher, Lindsey Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 18, 2006 3:12 PM CST up reply actions

it doesn't really matter ...

what baseline you use, it's the same for everyone.

by devo on Dec 18, 2006 3:16 PM CST up reply actions

Nope, the baseline matters.

Just using last years stats and RAP and RARP for an example.

Lets say I have 2 players, for example I'll use the following
RAP RARP
Joe Mauer 43.8 59.2
Jorge Posada 28.4 43

Now lets say Mauer duplicates his level of production for 14 years and Posada does it for 20 years.

Then you'd have the following (L is for lifetime)
LRAP LARP
Joe Mauer 613.2 828.2
Jorge Posada 568 860

So if you used that, and compared them to Average players, Mauer looks like he would have had the better career, but if you compared them to replacement level players, Posada would've had the better career.

The baseline matters a great deal. The higher the baseline, the more it rewards peak ability. The lower the baseline, the more it rewards longevity.

"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Noted Writer and Philosopher, Lindsey Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 18, 2006 3:29 PM CST up reply actions

ok, that's true

but I'm fine with that for what I'm doing -- since two of the three categories factor out longevity and the third is specifically intended to reward longevity.

by devo on Dec 18, 2006 4:07 PM CST up reply actions

And

it would be ridiculous to do it any other way. I feel like using RAP vs. RARP wouldn't be enough to account for the differences between peakers and longevity freaks.

by a bebop a rebop on Dec 18, 2006 4:21 PM CST up reply actions

Hey Brian ...

hope about 4-10?

by devo on Dec 18, 2006 1:34 PM CST up reply actions

OK

Arky Vaughan...never heard of that dude.

Gehrig
Bonds
Hornsby
Mickey
Musial
Cobb
Wagner

Cal Ripken? How does a guy with a sub-800 OPS make the top 20? The "streak" is way overblown in my opinion...

Good topic, Devo. But I believe I speak for alot of us when I say we can do without the 4 exclamation points...

Penalty Box? DONT THINK SO!!!!!!! And i wish everyone could stop writing that crap cause its gay...SUPER GAY!!!! NYTXfan!!!

by Brian Thomas on Dec 18, 2006 4:42 PM CST up reply actions

That list was devined

via solely statistical means, as explained on his webpage. Maybe a lot of people overblow (is that a word) the streak, but a lot of the same people underblow his defense.

by a bebop a rebop on Dec 18, 2006 4:51 PM CST up reply actions

What does devined mean?

Penalty Box? DONT THINK SO!!!!!!! And i wish everyone could stop writing that crap cause its gay...SUPER GAY!!!! NYTXfan!!!

by Brian Thomas on Dec 18, 2006 5:19 PM CST up reply actions

you win :(

by a bebop a rebop on Dec 18, 2006 5:21 PM CST up reply actions

nah : )

Penalty Box? DONT THINK SO!!!!!!! And i wish everyone could stop writing that crap cause its gay...SUPER GAY!!!! NYTXfan!!!

by Brian Thomas on Dec 18, 2006 5:38 PM CST up reply actions

It sure wasn't to my ex-wife......

maybe underblown !!!!

by tklawless on Dec 18, 2006 6:56 PM CST up reply actions

recorded

by devo on Dec 21, 2006 6:59 PM CST up reply actions

Negro Leagues

Is this the greatest MLB players or the greatest baseball players of all time. If it's not limited to MLB you have to look at some of the Negro League players like Josh Gibson or Satchel Paige or maybe Sadaharu Oh from the Japanese league.

Derek

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Dec 18, 2006 12:19 PM CST reply actions

x

Since your only doing everyday players, forget about Paige in this list.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Dec 18, 2006 12:22 PM CST up reply actions

I'm only counting MLB performances ...

I don't doubt any of their greatness -- but there is really no basis for comparison, so it would just be comparing apples to oranges. Given that neither I, nor most of us were alive when negro leaguers were playing, it wouldn't be particularly useful for us to compare their careers with MLB players.

They were great -- they got screwed. Undoubtedly some of them would have been in the running for tom MLB everyday player, had they been allowed to compete in the MLB. They weren't, though and even if the history is shameful, we cannot rewrite it.

by devo on Dec 18, 2006 12:29 PM CST up reply actions

THANK GOD!

Finally this question will definitively be answered, ending lifelong debate. Thanks for your help. Maybe next you can take on the challenge of finally curing this world of "who is the most bone-able actress" argument, way too many people are suffering by not having this knowledge.

Seriosuly though, what is the purpose of something like this, to name a greatest player, until next week when somebody asks the same question again, thus starting the debate all over?

by rbarton on Dec 18, 2006 5:17 PM CST reply actions