Zitos Meeting With The Mets

by BoNeZ on Dec 19, 2006 11:28 PM CST

http://nysportsdog.blogspot.com/2006/12/mets-whispers-making-progress.html#links

Dont know how reliable that it is but that site is reporting that the Mets have raised their offer to just under 100 for 6 years....but they also say the deadlock is on that 6th year...if he does not sign with them tonight or tommorrow he will probably choose to sign with us......

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i doubt

he signs with us if the offers are comparable.

by dubman @ Lone Star Ball on Dec 19, 2006 11:50 PM CST reply actions

No way possible

Jon Miller says Vicente Padilla with a thick accent.

by Agreen07 on Dec 19, 2006 11:58 PM CST up reply actions

Curious quote

After an initial meeting, both sides will meet for dinner before concluding negotiations tomorrow. According to our source, "if they come back without him tomorrow night, he won't be a Met."

Harumph.

by jamcadbury on Dec 20, 2006 1:30 AM CST reply actions

Offer from the Giants

I don't know where this person is getting this story/rumor, but he claims that Eric Byrnes says the Giants have offered Zito a 6 year, $120 million contract".

Probably totally false, but I thought I'd throw up for your enjoyment.

by alon91 on Dec 20, 2006 3:36 AM CST reply actions

wonder if this is the usual

Boras game of trying to jack the bid up.

"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Voice of Her Generation, Lindsay Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 20, 2006 5:48 AM CST up reply actions

Eric Byrnes

is an idiot.

by Brett Perryman on Dec 20, 2006 9:02 PM CST up reply actions

But he has such a nice fashion sense.

When all else fails, there's always delusion. - Conan O'Brien

by mtex on Dec 21, 2006 12:16 PM CST up reply actions

Boras

Will not do a deal without giving Hicks the opportunity to top the Mets offer.

"My theory of hitting was just to watch the ball as it came in and hit it." --Tommy Lasorda

by BReed on Dec 20, 2006 8:45 AM CST reply actions

not necessarily

if the idea is for Zito to play for the mets for a pretty good contract then why go back to texas? you could probably only get the mets to up the ante once.

by ab03 on Dec 20, 2006 9:00 AM CST up reply actions

Maybe

but Boras will at least make the attempt to up the ante before agreeing to any deal.

"My theory of hitting was just to watch the ball as it came in and hit it." --Tommy Lasorda

by BReed on Dec 20, 2006 9:34 AM CST up reply actions

Lots of interesting Zito stories

in the NY papers.

NYPost

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12202006/sports/mets/zitos_slip_is_showing_mets_michael_morrissey.htm

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12192006/sports/mets/mets_hit_road_for_zito_hunt_mets_michael_morrissey. htm

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12172006/sports/mets/mets_planning__zito_meeting_mets_kevin_kernan.htm

Interesting to note that Zito apparently won't be visiting NY, which one would think he would do if he had a major desire to live in Manhattan. You'd figure he'd be all over a free partying trip to Manhattan with David Wright being the tour guide if he was all about NY.

One way or another, I hope the Rangers stand pat on their last offer. If Zito comes here, thats fine, if he doesn't thats fine.

"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Voice of Her Generation, Lindsay Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 20, 2006 9:16 AM CST reply actions

I don't think it's fine

...if he doesn't. They need to get him.

If they don't get a pitcher of Zito's caliber, then they're going to struggle this year. I'd rather overpay the free agent than lose or overpsy in prospects.

by Dustin on Dec 20, 2006 9:33 AM CST up reply actions

Not necessarily

Keep in mind that the Angels haven't added any pitching, the M's are the M's and the A's have lost Zito and no one knows how Harden will do next season. The West is very much winnable right now without Zito, he would just be a great addition that might make them the favorite. With that bullpen and the emergence of some young pitching like Rupe and Tejeda, the Rangers may have enough to win right now.

"My theory of hitting was just to watch the ball as it came in and hit it." --Tommy Lasorda

by BReed on Dec 20, 2006 9:37 AM CST up reply actions

You're wrong

Look, I'm a big fan of Padilla, but he's not a sure thing. I like Millwood, too, but he certainly wasn't ace material or anything close to it last season. Tejeda? Again, that's a guy I like but he's this year's Kam Loe. Everyone's penciling him in for a great season that's probably not going to materialize.

The offense is average at best, and the bullpen will be used up by June if they're pitching heavy four out of five nights.

It's nice to be optimistic, but don't tell me to "keep things in mind" when you're not even being realistic yourself.

by Dustin on Dec 20, 2006 9:44 AM CST up reply actions

Your the one

not being realistic if you think Zito is an ace and Millwood isn't.

"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Voice of Her Generation, Lindsay Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 20, 2006 9:48 AM CST up reply actions

Never said he was

Look back through my comments and you'll never see where I called Zito an ace. I don't think he is.

He's a dependable innings guy, like you said, and while not an ace I think he's definitely above average. He's in the same class as Millwood, probably. They need Zito or a guy like him.

by Dustin on Dec 20, 2006 9:50 AM CST up reply actions

Ok

Fans who look for the negatives are also the ones that only show up when the team wins. Of course I'm realistic, I'm not saying they are going to win the West. I'm only saying the situation isn't as bad as some believe it is. The thought that the Rangers pen will be used up by June is just ridiculous, it is way too deep for that to happen. Comparing Tejeda to Loe is unfair to Tejeda. He has more pitches to work with than Loe has. It's hard to be a starter in this league without an out pitch, something Loe has yet to figure out. Zito would be a great addition, but the Rangers can win without him, which is the point I was trying to make.

"My theory of hitting was just to watch the ball as it came in and hit it." --Tommy Lasorda

by BReed on Dec 20, 2006 9:58 AM CST up reply actions

Don't have to look for the negatives

They're right in front of me. If you choose not to look at them, that's called delusional. I've been to a LOT of Rangers games during tough seasons...I'm no dumbass fairweather fan.

Any bullpen will get used up if you only have one or two starters giving you innings. It doesn't matter if you have a full MLB quality bullpen at AAA...you're not going to be able to shuttle them back and forth quickly enough. Think about it.

I wasn't comparing Loe and Tejeda directly as pitchers. I was saying that Tejeda is assuming the role Loe had last year: a young pitcher who finished the previous year strong, making fans cream themselves in anticipation. Tejeda may walk a hundred guys this year for all you or I know. Wait until Adam posts the Kam Loe prediction thread from last winter. It'll make you sick.

The Rangers can win without Zito or some other reliable veteran, but it's very unlikely. Lots of things would have to break right.

by Dustin on Dec 20, 2006 10:15 AM CST up reply actions

Every team

has to have things break right for them to win. No team in baseball is perfect, some simply are the best of a bad division. Are the Rangers perfect? Far from it, but the attitude lately among many Rangers fans is simply if we don't sign Zito then the season is over before it begins. I'm trying to point out the positives on this team, and you don't have to look very hard to see them.

"My theory of hitting was just to watch the ball as it came in and hit it." --Tommy Lasorda

by BReed on Dec 20, 2006 10:24 AM CST up reply actions

I suppose

...the KC Royals could win the World Series if everything broke right for them. A better team doesn't have to have as much luck, though. Minimize question marks.

I don't think the season is over if they don't sign Zito, but clearly it's their best option. Doing nothing and going with only two proven starters is the worst option. Trading for a starter is the other option, and I don't like trading away the kinds of prospects that would be required to land a decent pitcher.

I don't have to look hard to see the positives, but the weakness we're talking about is glaring. Unless you fix it, this team's ceiling is "best of a bad division" and that's not good enough.

by Dustin on Dec 20, 2006 3:01 PM CST up reply actions

How much difference

do you really think it makes if we sign Zito or if we sign Suppan this year? 2 games? 1 game?

I really think people overestimate what Zito will do here.

"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Voice of Her Generation, Lindsay Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 20, 2006 3:06 PM CST up reply actions

Zito is probably better than Suppan

I've never liked Suppan all that much. Still, what I've been saying is that they need to sign Zito or get someone like him. I'd prefer Zito. Apparently I have a better opinion of him than you do.

Suppan would be okay and, if you're right, it would be the better deal in the long run. I just don't want them to screw around and end up trading the farm or just going with what they have. That's my main concern.

by Dustin on Dec 20, 2006 3:17 PM CST up reply actions

Out of curiousity...

...and also because I'm too lazy to go back and search through the other threads, what is your major objection to Zito? If my memory serves me, I believe your reasoning is based primarily on the proposed length of the contract and dollar amount. Both of which are obviously valid concerns.

However, with Zito's proven track record as an "innings-eater," his lack of any injuries and his relative youth, he seems like the best option to allow us to develop two young guys at the back end of the rotation. If spending $100 million on him allows us to fill out two of the five spots with guys near the league minimum, our average salary for the rotation would be somewhere around $8.2 million for the next three of four years, that's really not much of a burden on the payroll when you look at the "big" picture.

We've got the bats, we've got the gloves, we've got the Manager, now let's go out and get some pitching!

by rangersfan34 on Dec 20, 2006 4:28 PM CST up reply actions

My objection

is that he isnt worth the money. I dont believe you spend 15-20% of your payroll on merely very good players. I also think that Zito will likely be a worse pitcher than we have seen the last 3 years over the life of the contract.

"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Voice of Her Generation, Lindsay Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 20, 2006 5:38 PM CST up reply actions

That's obviously a very valid concern...

...but I'm hopeful that we'll get lucky for once. Zito isn't a true #1, and he'll probably be no better than a #3 at the end of this upcoming contract, but I'd still take that if it gets guys like Danks and Hurley to the majors as Rangers. The more this off-season shakes out, the more I think we're going to have to trade our young "studs" if the Zito signing doesn't pan out.

If we lose out on Zito, I believe we're pretty much giving up hope of keeping the Danks' and Hurley's of our farm system. With Zito, I think we can develop them while building a championship contender. And, yes, I know that there's no guarantee that any of our young guys will ever become top of the rotation guys, but I'm again hopeful. That's what I need to believe in as a Rangers fan...

We've got the bats, we've got the gloves, we've got the Manager, now let's go out and get some pitching!

by rangersfan34 on Dec 20, 2006 5:54 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed

Paying a little more for Zito probably keeps both Danks and Hurley in the organisation whereas not getting Zito probably means one of them has to get off-loaded somewhere to pick up a starter.

by shrinking violet on Dec 20, 2006 9:40 AM CST up reply actions

Going $100 million

to commit 6 years to a guy who has had a 4 ERA while pitching the last 3 years in pitcher friendly Oakland is already past my comfort level. If he needs more money to pitch in Texas, he really doesnt want to be here, and Id just as soon not have him here.

People have to recognize that Zito hasn't been an elite pitcher in 3+ years. He is now a dependable innings eater that wants to be paid as an ace.

"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Voice of Her Generation, Lindsay Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 20, 2006 9:47 AM CST up reply actions

What is the cost of not paying Zito

Without him or someone like him, I don't think they're going anywhere like I said. Then I think it was a waste to sign Catalanotto and especially Lofton and Gagne, who are here on one-year deals.

by Dustin on Dec 20, 2006 9:56 AM CST up reply actions

That's really the point.......

Zito, overpaid or not, is the only option, other than spinning Danks and/or Hurley off in trade. Like Dustin said, it also sure makes those 1 year deals on Lofton and Gagne look suspect, not to mention Cat's deal.

Without another FRONT LINE starter the team can't win (especially considering all the offense lost and they weren't that great last year) and then the dominoes start falling.....If we don't win Tex is gone, MY as well, unless Danks & Hurley both happen to step up & fast !

by tklawless on Dec 20, 2006 10:21 AM CST up reply actions

Personally, I think

we can win in the division without Zito.

I guess I'm just overoptimistic as usual.

"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Voice of Her Generation, Lindsay Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 20, 2006 10:26 AM CST up reply actions

I'm usually overly optimistic myself but,.........

With the rotation as it stands:

Millwood
Padilla
Tejeda
Rupe
Loe, Kronk, Rheinacker, Danks?

I just can't see it, since to offense is still missing at least one big bat. Maybe the top three can win 15 each, the leftover's can get past the 5th once in awhile, and the bullpen can carry the load.......we damn sure need to keep Aki then.

by tklawless on Dec 20, 2006 10:31 AM CST up reply actions

Look at

Oaklands and the Angels lineups.

Look at the Mariners.

This is gonna be one dogcrap division.

"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Voice of Her Generation, Lindsay Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 20, 2006 10:35 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah, but look at Oakland's

everyday line-up last year....who'd have ever thought that bunch of scrubs could win 93 games?

by tklawless on Dec 20, 2006 10:50 AM CST up reply actions

So, picking up Zito

will make all the difference in the world but losing Zito and Frank Thomas, the A's biggest offensive threat, won't hurt the A's a similar amount?

"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Voice of Her Generation, Lindsay Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 20, 2006 10:55 AM CST up reply actions

I didn't say they'd be better or worse

just that I couldn't believe that collection of stiffs could win 93 games.

I agree with you losing Zito and replacing Thomas with Piazza has gotta hurt.

It's not my money, but I'd rather sign Zito, than have to include Danks and/or Hurley in a deal for a starter. We've come this far with our pitching prospects, I'd hate to see us screw it up this close to the payoff.

by tklawless on Dec 20, 2006 11:09 AM CST up reply actions

Division

Without Zito or someone like that, they may be able to win the division. But the Rangers would be relying on other teams to be bad, which I don't like. To me, if they sign Zito they become a legitimately good team and should be able to compete in their league, not just the division.

by Dustin on Dec 20, 2006 2:53 PM CST up reply actions

Zito is a crucial piece

It is a guarantee that we'll be paying him way too much for what's in his bag, BUT he is exactly what this teams. Basically another Millwood that will allow us to keep and be patient with the pitching prospects in the pipeline.

"I feel like I have an idea about what we can do to keep the A's from beating us so much." Ron Washington

by hubcityraider on Dec 20, 2006 10:35 AM CST reply actions

Read the above arguments...

suffice it to say, that if the Rangers don't get Zito, they need to have an aggressive backup plan to trade for a #2 or #3 level pitcher. I think the AL West is going to be very winnable, but the Angels scare me more than the A's. We need more pitching to beat them.

by t ball on Dec 20, 2006 11:10 AM CST reply actions

Why not just

sign Soupcan or another free agent? Suppan would cost you significantly less, and while he probably isn't as good as Zito, the difference in their probable contracts is much bigger than the difference in their performance. You can probably get Soupcan for 2/3 the price per year for half the years.

The Zito frenzy, where we must sign Zito or shut down the franchise, just seems a little overblown to me.

"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Voice of Her Generation, Lindsay Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 20, 2006 11:23 AM CST up reply actions

Suppan

might have some of the benefits I mentioned, but to me, I'd rather overpay and get the risk/reward with Zito.

I would love to see Adam do a stats analysis for Suppan like he did for Zito the other day. That would shed more light on how Soup might actually pitch in TBIA. But my gut and less than stellar analysis tells me that Zito would mean 3 or 4 more wins than Suppan here.

It would be easy to find a starter to win 10-12 games, but it's those next 3 or 4 wins that are so valuable.

by t ball on Dec 20, 2006 11:27 AM CST up reply actions