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JD on with Norm

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You know..
I'm not usually one of these diary nazis... but come on.
you jackin' it?

by chief on Dec 26, 2006 8:43 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

radio
i wish i could freaking get radio reception in this office sometimes.
and streaming audio/video is a BIG no no... sigh
Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!

by rentz on Dec 26, 2006 8:50 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Sorry chief, was trying to listen
My first diary, poor "diary etiquette" I guess, trying to listen so I could post a recap.

Basics:

-McCarthy on list of targeted young players, couldn't pass opportunity to get him, is for now and future.  Said his minor league performance is hard to find, but backs it up with good makeup and stuff.

-Likes the stability and upside of rotation - said Millwood for 4 yrs, Padilla for 4 (including option), McCarthy 5, tejeda 5.  And "waves" of pitches behind them.  Feels pitching depth allowed them to make this deal, but expects Danks & Masset to pitch well.

-Said the core of the team is positioned to win.  They could have gone Marlins style or tried to win and they are putting a competitive team out there.  Only McCarthy deal moved any young players.

-Gagne wouldn't agree to give the team an option for 2008.  Said they tried to do that with Dotel last year too

-No specifics on Zito or Mulder contract offers.  Didn't want to give out info that could help competitors.  Said they had made an aggressive offer to Zito, but wouldn't say if it was 6 years.  Market has changed, but the offer was as high as they can go within "means."  Still negotiating with both.  

-Mulder on honeymoon in Tahiti.  Medical staff expects he'll be pitching mid-season this year, but full strength later in year and 2008.

-Does not believe Zito needs to stay on the west coast.  Also thinks the Rangers have a chance to win, and thinks free agents see that too (in response to Norm saying Mets are attractive because they can win - JD pointed out a year ago they had a near-.500 record too).  Said hard to tell if rumors of other teams are accurate.

-In addition to a starter, looking for upgrades at backup CA (talked to Barajas, but got better opportunity in Philly - said they may bring in one or two younger guys to compete with Ojeda), utility (Vasquez or Arias, but they want Arias to get 500 ABs in triple A), and RH bat (but may go with Botts or Diaz to start).

That's all I can remember.

by AZranger on Dec 26, 2006 8:58 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Also
Norm said most GM's don't make this type of deal because it puts their head on chopping block.  Asked JD if he thought about that, if he was worried about people chirping about him.  JD said some people already chirping, but he said if he makes moves (or doesn't do anything) out of "self preservation" than he and the organization are in trouble.  

by AZranger on Dec 26, 2006 9:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Botts
As much as I like Botts, I have some trepidation about using him, Cruz, Kinsler (admittedly after a nice 06 performance), and Wilk in the same offense.  Lots of question marks.

One veteran bat using some of the money tabbed for Zito would be a good idea.

And phase Botts in, say 200 or 300 AB.

by hightowersmith on Dec 26, 2006 10:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the thing
Let's say you add a righthanded bat, who is going to get a fair chunk of playing time.

You add that player to a mix that already has Cat, Cruz, and Wilk for the corner OF/DH slots.

How many ABs does that really leave Botts, as the 5th guy for 3 slots?

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2006 10:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Botts
If I were him, I'd be worried about the GM's outward courting of a RH'ed bat. I just don't see where his at bats are going to come then.

by The other Thomas on Dec 26, 2006 10:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you ready to acknowledge?
Botts isn't going to get a chance to play here.

by BurntOrange on Dec 26, 2006 11:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

better trade him...
...like we did Hafner.
Your Texas Rangers...laying the foundation for 2007, in a winnable AL West. Never thought I'd say that!

by RangerMoto on Dec 26, 2006 12:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?
What's your point?

by BurntOrange on Dec 26, 2006 1:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My point is...
...that trading Botts is becoming a clear possibility, and for the same reason the Rangers traded Hafner: no spot for him.

We can only hope Daniels makes a more informed decision regarding Botts than Hart made...

Your Texas Rangers...laying the foundation for 2007, in a winnable AL West. Never thought I'd say that!

by RangerMoto on Dec 26, 2006 2:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And my point is....
The only reason there isn't a spot for him is that we keep adding veteran players to fill spots he could take, rather than giving him a chance.  

Even moreso than with Hafner, it appears they are simply determined not to let him play here.  There were better players in front of Hafner than there were in front of Botts when this offseason began.

by BurntOrange on Dec 26, 2006 7:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for recap
Glad they're wanting to put Arias in AAA for 500 ABs, hopefully he can increase his value their to this team or another.  

I don't understand the reluctance to use Botts.

by t ball on Dec 26, 2006 9:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

botts
only reason i could see for reluctance is that they want a more proven bat and don't want to rely on a young guy....but he won't ever be able to prove what he can or can't do until given a chance with steady at bats. better to do that this year rather than next year when guys are in the final years of their deals.
Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!

by rentz on Dec 26, 2006 9:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wish
we gave Gagne the option year for 2008

by myoungfan11 on Dec 26, 2006 1:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Option
Daniels said he tried, but Gagne wouldn't sign a contract with a team option.

by BurntOrange on Dec 26, 2006 1:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If
he does contribute this year he probably won't re sign with us

by myoungfan11 on Dec 26, 2006 3:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep
spring board to a large contract. This is why we need to keep Aki.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 3:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

trade
If thhe Rangers arent in the race at the deadline the plan will be to trade Gagne.  If he is having a good year the return could be fairly substantial from a team in contention that needs a closer.  Personally I would trade him even if we are in contention, pick up some young arms possibly, and give the job back to Aki.  Thats how you help build a team. Pick up a trade piece like Gagne and then trade him when the time is right.  Hart missed that opportunity with Sori.  Much ike a Millwood or a Zito....by the ends of their deals their $/yr will be very reasonable and their trade value could be very high.

by rkh on Dec 26, 2006 7:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

JD
I know my opinion isn't valued anyway but I have to like what the guy is doing. Until he trades Young for a bag of peanuts or something, anyway.
Barak Hussein Obama-his real middle name

by Sharky on Dec 26, 2006 9:29 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Sharky, some of us value you because
you make us look good.  :)

As for JD I have been very hard on the little man.  Have not like many of his moves in his first year and have exercised my contitutional right to free speach about the moves.  Like you I see him making better moves this offseason.  I am not convinced he has done enough to make this team a winner yet, but he has not made any more bone headed dumb trades.  Yes that is an improvement.

by Bigfan16 on Dec 26, 2006 10:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's made one
legitimately badmove, but whatever.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 26, 2006 11:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

exactly
but it was a doosy!

by jackbnimble on Dec 26, 2006 1:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes but almost every
GM has one though. That doesn't mean JD is a bad GM.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 1:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
Let it be the bad beginning to great career in Texas. We all want everyone involved with the Rangers to be successful to create a great franchise. The CY trade has the potential of being one of the 5 worst trades ever for the Rangers as someone has pointed out already. Truthfully I hope it doesn't turn out to be the worst. But I must release my darts and get over this. I appreciate everyone bearing with me as it has to boring to read this over and over. It is  for me however to get this out. No more I promise.

by jackbnimble on Dec 26, 2006 1:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

However
Every GM doesn't have one that is so bad that almost everyone on a message board immediately knows that it's horrible.

It was a trade that made no sense when it was made, and it only got worse.

by BurntOrange on Dec 26, 2006 1:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well then let's just fire him now
and move on maybe you would like to be the next GM? Look at the WS message boards they hate this trade they just made you can't make everyone happy and where would the Rangers have been last year without Aki? I liked CY but he moved onto a pitchers park and yes he had a very good year for the Rangers but how would he have pitched in his second full year in a hitters park after the AL got ot know him. Let's see how he does this year now that he has made his first trip through the NL.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 1:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What your point?
Are you trying to argue that the SD trade wasn't horrible?

And who is calling for Daniels to be fired?  

by BurntOrange on Dec 26, 2006 1:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I liked the SD
When it was done but hindsight is 20/20 I still say give CY another year in the NL then judge it. If Eaton had been healthy and the Rangers would have won the West you wouldn't be bitching about it. Kinda like the Sosa trade at the time it made sense but now you look at it and it was a very bad trade. What I'm saying is every GM makes bad trades you have to take the good with the bad.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 2:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hindsight
I really wish people would look that word up sometime.  If you say a trade is bad the day it is made and then the reasons you thought it was bad actually happen that is not hindsight.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

by Chris Martin on Dec 26, 2006 3:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey I have admitted it was a bad trade
but still I trust JD more than I ever trusted Hart. Still Chris if the Rangers had won the West and Eaton was healthy all year with the way Aki pitched the trade would have been good. Ahh probably not you would find something to bitch about. Do you like the Soriano trade? I personaly think JD could have got something better but maybe Wilkerson will do something this year.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 3:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Soriano/San Diego trades
The only way that San Diego trade would have been good is if Eaton had been healthy all year, pitched better than he ever has, AND signed an extension for 3-4 more years and performed well during that time.  None of those things was ever going to happen and clearly didn't happen.

As for the Soriano trade, I liked it at the time and I still do.  There was no reason whatsoever to see Soriano's 2006 season happening.  And if Wilkerson comes back healthy and plays to his normal ability then the Rangers will have a very solid outfield in 2007.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

by Chris Martin on Dec 26, 2006 3:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
We will see about Wilkerson.

I have a cold and don't have it in me to fight with you today Chris have a Happy New Year.

Chris I have season tickets to the Rangers so if you ever want to go get with me. They are front row on the 1st base side right behind Greg the ball boy.

Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 3:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't go to games anymore
It's too damn far.  I just go to Roughriders games since it's only about 10 minutes from my house.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

by Chris Martin on Dec 26, 2006 3:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No problem
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 3:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Greg
He has a really weird throwing motion.

by Wes Cox on Dec 26, 2006 3:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He sucks
We all sit out there and laugh our ass off at him. He over throws and sometimes he just throws it straight into the ground. lol
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 4:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you sure?
When it was done but hindsight is 20/20 I still say give CY another year in the NL then judge it.

You do go on to say that it was a very bad trade, but that looks like talking out of both sides of your mouth.

The REASON we keep harping on the Young trade is that you have people still saying, "Hey, we should wait before we really judge a trade." even though all the scenarios that we (the detractors of the trade) laid out as the most likely came to pass.

Eaton was injured and fairly ineffective.

Young did well in his new haunt.

A Gonzalez produced like most expected him to do.

Otsuka was a great reliever.

I still don't even see why you're trying to say we should give it another year to judge. San Diego has likely already won the trade just ON THE FIRST YEAR. We have only what Otsuka will do in the following 3 years to make up for the huge difference in value that Young and Gonzalez provided over Eaton and Otsuka.

Basically, the likely scenario we laid out for why this trade was horrible came to pass, and now you're saying that 1) it's hindsight, and 2) we should give it another year?

I don't get it. Is it because you don't want to admit that maybe we got royally screwed on the deal?

It WOULD be hindsight and worthless to espouse if we hadn't outlined the problems of the deal when it first occurred (e.g., if any of us starting taking JD to task over Soriano, then, you could probably accuse us of using hindsight and trying to stir up stuff), but we actually laid down the groundwork and arguments for WHY this deal was so horrible right when the deal was announced.

And it came down almost exactly as some of us predicted. Does this mean that JD was incorrect to try to trade Chris Young? No, not at all. It's just that the return we got for him and our best position prospect was so low, that it was nigh impossible to see a "best-reward" scenario which would make the deal in our favor.

At least with the McCarthy deal, I can see a solid potential for the Rangers making out well (which is why I don't think it's a bad deal).

Most of us are not bitching for the sake of bitching. Most of us, though, also, don't trust JD implicitly, either, just because he's not Hart.

Req

by Requiem on Dec 26, 2006 5:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yay!
...blockquotes
Your Texas Rangers...laying the foundation for 2007, in a winnable AL West. Never thought I'd say that!

by RangerMoto on Dec 26, 2006 6:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And...
...a phenomenally accurate use of commas, the likes of which I haven't seen since reading Beloved...
Your Texas Rangers...laying the foundation for 2007, in a winnable AL West. Never thought I'd say that!

by RangerMoto on Dec 26, 2006 6:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hindsight
Exactly, Chris.  I (and numerous others here) said it was horrible the moment I heard about, and that's the way it turned out.

An example of hindsight would be for me to rip on Daniels for the Soriano-Wilkerson trade, because I really liked it when it was made.

by BurntOrange on Dec 26, 2006 7:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And I was refering
to myself with the hindsight quote. I said I liked the trade at the time it was done. If you read my post I have said I don't think it was that good of a trade now looking back on it.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 8:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Burnt
Can I still rip on JD over the Sori deal that I hated at the time?  

by Bigfan16 on Dec 26, 2006 8:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

irrelevant
the rangers were an average team and missed the playoffs.  No Aki, no difference.  What is the value of a closer on a team that doesnt even compete.....zero.  I guess if it makes you sleep better to know we got an aging set-up man turned closer than that is indeed a positive.  Where would the Oakland Raiders be without _____(fill in the blank)?  The Rangers sorely misjudged their potential last year.  Should have cashed in on Aki at last years deadline. Using your same logic, lets see Aki a 2nd year through the AL.  I wouldnt count on him being as good, hence the chance being taken on Gagne. As Bob Sturm always says buy low, sale high.  Aki's value is as high as its likely to ever be. "Would you like to be the GM?" is the same as saying you can't comment on the game because you never played.........brilliant!  

by rkh on Dec 26, 2006 7:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What part of sarcasam
do you not understand? What I was trying to say is everyone can be an armchair GM. Do I think the CY/Aki trade was a bad trade? Yes I do but I also understand that JD was trying to do something to make the team better. I would rather JD be out there trying to make the team better in the offseason and at the trade deadline than sitting on his ass in a golf cart like Hart did and just draw a check.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 7:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

better than hart
I agree with that sentiment.  I just hope that when JD's time is done that isnt the best we can say about him.

by rkh on Dec 26, 2006 8:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I can agree with that.
I do think JD will be much better that Hart ever was here.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 8:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There are worse things....
than doing nothing....

As the Bush Administration and USA is figuring out, unfortunately.

Sometimes, it's important to judge a good GM on the trades he DOESN'T make....

Req

by Requiem on Dec 26, 2006 8:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you are saying
Hart was a good GM here? I would agree with you if you said he was good in Cleveland but he wasn't a good GM here.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 8:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No.
I'm saying that just because Hart showed one form of incompetence, doesn't mean another form is any better.

Just because for the most part, Hart did nothing (and when he DID do something it was bad) and was a bad GM, doesn't mean that because JD did something different implies he is a good GM.

In the right context, doing nothing is good (e.g., if you can't get good enough value for your parts, you DON'T make the trade, a la Otsuka or Chris Young). In the right context, doing something is good (a la Padilla, Dominguez, Diaz/Young).

But there's usually no universals here, where we can say "4-feet good, 2-feet bad."

Req

by Requiem on Dec 26, 2006 9:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok I will agree with that.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 9:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Remember
when we made the Soriano trade and we were praised about having made a good deal?

Trades don't work out sometimes.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 26, 2006 2:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly my point...
You can look at the Mets trade of Kazmir for ??? when they could have had Soriano for Kazmir.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 2:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

victor zambrano
made for a specific reason.  odd that you cite that as evidence for "hindsight is 20/20" when that trade directly led to someone's firing (and for good reason).

by ab03 on Dec 26, 2006 2:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm making the point
Every GM has his klunkers but that was the final straw for Philips. You can't judge a GM after just one year on the job.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 2:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

just saying
there is a way to judge a trade's value at the time it's made and the Zambrano/Kazmir deal is definitely an example of that.  Cyoung/Eaton is not a bad example either.

by ab03 on Dec 26, 2006 2:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention
The CY deal was last year there is nothing to be gained by rehashing the trade and about what could have been we just need to move on and hope JD learns from that.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 2:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and it was (unfortunately) magnified...
...because it was one of his first moves.
Your Texas Rangers...laying the foundation for 2007, in a winnable AL West. Never thought I'd say that!

by RangerMoto on Dec 26, 2006 1:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dunno if people heard...
Hicks came on the ticket after JD, and said the Zito offer is only good through this week.  There is a deadline.

by hightowersmith on Dec 26, 2006 12:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Good it's time this thing
is over I'm tired of this whole thing dragging out every day in the media. If Zito wants to come here better for us as fans and the Rangers if not oh well it's not like the Rangers have ever been stiffed by a big name pitcher before.

It would be nice though if the Rangers did get him to go along with Millwood, Padilla, McCarthy and Tejeda. I also wouldn't mind if they got Mulder.

Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 12:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You do realize
that Mulder is likely not able to pitch until after the All Star game, and probably wont contribute until 2008, right?
"Strippers dude, I tell you, I really respect the cunts now. . . I'm not gonna lie to ya." - Voice of Her Generation, Lindsay Lohan.

by DJCahill on Dec 26, 2006 12:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep
I've read the reports but if the Rangers could reach a deal with him that is good for both I would have no problem with it.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 12:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tired of the media dragging this out?
Why?  It's not like it's this big thing that gets headlines daily.  Seriously.  A few articles here and there.

This is nothing like the A-Rod hype before, and during, those winter meetings.

The only reason we might feel a bit lambasted by all of the media hype is because we visit LSB and see the daily link dumps.  It's not like this is really getting dragged out by Boras or Daniels on an even semi-regular basis.

I'm not tired of it, and won't be, unless Boras starts scheduling weekly press conferences to discuss it.

Your Texas Rangers...laying the foundation for 2007, in a winnable AL West. Never thought I'd say that!

by RangerMoto on Dec 26, 2006 1:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And I'm tired of
the national media thinking every player wants to to to NY. I understand Boras wanted and had to get Daisy Duke signed before doing anything with Zito but I just want hi to make up his mind so all of us can either talk about how the Rangers landed him or just to move on with the rest of the offseason.
Welcome to Arlington Barry Zito.

by boomer1 on Dec 26, 2006 1:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Zito saga
You could just move on yourself. Daniels has said he doesn't like our chances. The owner has put a time limit on the offer. We'll hear all the details in a few days, but Zito isn't coming to Texas.

With Mccarthy on board, we may not need him like we did before, so overpaying doesn't sound as good. I can't remember the time the Rangers went into an ST with 3 guys like Mccarthy, Millwood and Padilla at the front of their rotation.

by The other Thomas on Dec 26, 2006 2:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mulder
would increase our chances in winning the division this year

by myoungfan11 on Dec 26, 2006 2:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're...
...overestimating Mulder's impact, especially considering that he won't even be able to pitch until the AS break, at the earliest.
Your Texas Rangers...laying the foundation for 2007, in a winnable AL West. Never thought I'd say that!

by RangerMoto on Dec 26, 2006 2:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I already know
he won't be ready by spring training but he is damage goods

by myoungfan11 on Dec 26, 2006 3:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think what is meant is:
Boras is pulling his usual leverage trick with Texas as the foil. Give him a deadline and he has to react one way or the other and not drag this process out utilizing the press.

This is definitely the best way to deal with Boras. It's not like Hicks hasn't left this on the table for a decent period. If it is open ended then other teams enter and leave the process at their pleasure.

Another thing is the way it hamstrings the Rangers. "If we don't sign Zito then we can  ..." You fill in the blank. You've seen the posts. Well, if we wait much longer without resolution either way, it begins to damage the team in it's ability to evaluate opportunities as they arise and they will.

by jackbnimble on Dec 26, 2006 1:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the deadline
is the end of the week

by myoungfan11 on Dec 26, 2006 3:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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