The McGwire Debate

by Austin Ranger on Dec 3, 2006 9:03 AM CST

The debate on whether Mark McGwire should be voted into the Hall of Fame is heating up.

The Hall of Fame is not a right, it's a privilege. As such, it is perfectly reasonble to expect clarity on whether Mark McGwire benefited from the use of steroids during his illustrious career. He had the opportunity to do so but chose not to provide that clarity and, as a result, irreparably damaged his baseball legacy.

Lastly, those feeling nostalgic and weepy about the thought of McGwire never making the trip to Cooperstown should take note of this -- he absolutely had to have known that his congressional testimony would cost him the Hall of Fame or, at the very least, put it in serious jeopardy and yet he took the easy way out. This is simply not good enough for the Hall of Fame.

Poll

Would You Vote for McGwire?

NFW

2 votes

Yes

13 votes

No, but Thank You

11 votes

26 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

NFW

Steroids. No doubt in my mind he took them.

And don't give me that, "There wasn't a rule against taking steroids" crap. They were freaking illegal.

Jason Botts: 500+ AB's in '07, or bust!!!

by thedirkatron on Dec 3, 2006 9:00 AM CST reply actions

andro wasn't illegal

by Longhorn on Dec 3, 2006 11:39 AM CST up reply actions

but you can't prove that...

so why hold it against him?

by cmkelly29 on Dec 3, 2006 1:38 PM CST up reply actions

I'm not.

they should all be in the HOF.

by Longhorn on Dec 3, 2006 1:44 PM CST up reply actions

Sorry Longhorn...

I meant to reply to dirkatron...

I'm saying he can't prove that McGwire did steroids.

You're right though, andro was legal.

by cmkelly29 on Dec 3, 2006 9:57 PM CST up reply actions

Guilty until proven innocent

Many of the media talking heads always take a legal approach of "innocent until proven guilty" when it comes to HOF voting and players suspected of using steroids. I disagree with this approach. Mark McGuire won't go to jail if he is not voted into the HOF. His testimony was damning and HOF voters do have the ability to vote based on character and are not bound by an "innocent until proven guilty" standard. Take all the information and make a decision, don't try to weigh certain facts in or out. Last thing we need are the media folks trying to act like lawyers.

by mattrpav on Dec 3, 2006 9:05 AM CST reply actions

I don't know why...

people think that this is something new, or unusual, or whatever. Oh, no, Mickey Mantle wasn't a drunk that took greenies. Ty Cobb wasn't a racist asshole. Carl Yztremski wasn't a loafing lazy ass. They all deserve Cooperstown.

by benmor78 on Dec 3, 2006 9:23 AM CST reply actions

yeah but..

Mantle being a drunk and Cobb being a racist didn't give them an unfair advantage in the game. McGwire took steroids, it seems pretty obvious, and if he is let in to the hall then you are setting a precedent for future generations of players that cheat.

If Pete Rose isn't in the hall of fame, McGwire and Bonds shouldn't be either.

by Funky Picnic on Dec 3, 2006 9:46 AM CST up reply actions

Taking greenies...

probably gives you an unfair advantage, so we should probably throw everybody out of the HOF except the Federation of Christian Athletes types. Except God's on their side, and if that's not an unfair advantage, I don't know what is.

Hell, the handsome, tall and rich have the advantage for scoring top shelf pussy, so we should probably shoot those fuckers. Tom Brady shoot get his arms chopped off, acid thrown in his face, and forcibly infected with herpes, that's only fair.

"If you had a pill that would guarantee a pitcher twenty wins, but might take five years off his life, he'd take it." - Jim Bouton

This ain't new, it ain't surprising, and if taking steroids was all it took to hit 70 home runs, I'd be doing it.

by benmor78 on Dec 3, 2006 9:52 AM CST up reply actions

Post of the year!!!!

It has it all.....

Funny.....solid points.....and just enough of an air of superiority.

by bdavison94 on Dec 3, 2006 2:49 PM CST up reply actions

Rose goes in, too

I think Pete Rose should be in the HOF as well.

by t ball on Dec 3, 2006 3:22 PM CST up reply actions

It is too hard to discern

who did and who did not take steroids...Therefore, you let everyone in that has the numbers, unless they tested positive aka Palmero.

"I'm sick of hearing about the DVD and how they are untouchable." - Dan McDowell

by Agreen07 on Dec 3, 2006 9:44 AM CST reply actions

Well

we do know that McGwire's best season, he was on at least one performance enhancing drug - andro. Pretty much legal for both the league and in the U.S. Let's say he was only on andro his whole career. Should he be in the hall then?

by ab03 on Dec 3, 2006 9:51 AM CST reply actions

of course

what rule did he break?

"I'm sick of hearing about the DVD and how they are untouchable." - Dan McDowell

by Agreen07 on Dec 3, 2006 10:23 AM CST up reply actions

His style

Even though it is highly possible the McGwire took steroids, you have to give the guy credit for his amazing hitting ability. I guess to put it in perspective, think of all the games that have admitted or been accused of steroids that weren't power threats, such as Alex Sanchez or David Segui. That being said, I still think steroids should stay as far away from baseball as possible.

by aggierangerfan00 on Dec 3, 2006 10:23 AM CST reply actions

Ok...

So who exactly should be in the Hall from this generation? We know a few people that did steroids, but what do we do about people that we all strongly assume did, but have no proof. Do we reward them just because they were slightly better at hiding it?

by ksf42001 on Dec 3, 2006 11:34 AM CST reply actions

Great question

IMO the Hall of Fame still is constituted by recognition of players that "raise the game".

And I think over time, what makes up "raising the game" has undergone a couple of redefinitions.

by Ed Coffin on Dec 3, 2006 11:40 AM CST up reply actions

It's more like

The Roger Clemens debate.

by Longhorn on Dec 3, 2006 11:43 AM CST reply actions

McGwire

All I know is if he doesn't get in because of roids then neither should Bonds, or Sosa, or Palmeiro or anyone else suspected of roiding (so pretty much no player from the past 10-20yrs can get in). Not saying I advocate using steroids or performance enhancers, but the fact is theres very little hard proof that many players used, there's more proof against bonds than there is most players.

Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!

by rentz on Dec 3, 2006 12:15 PM CST reply actions

Rafi

wasn't suspected, he actually failed a test. That is a big difference than just speculation. I put Sosa, McGwire, Bonds in. Well actually if anything you could argue Bonds out cause he admited to unknowingly taking steroids.

"I'm sick of hearing about the DVD and how they are untouchable." - Dan McDowell

by Agreen07 on Dec 3, 2006 12:53 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed

And all the pitchers from this era- including Clemens, Maddux, Pedro, Randy Johnson- they should all be excluded as well, if the writers really want to crack down on all players from the steroid era.

Especially since the evidence (in the form of positive tests) seems to indicate that pitchers are using at least at the same levels hitters are.

And what about cocaine? Fergie Jenkins and Willie Stargell were both linked to it. Amphetamines? You can add Willie Mays, Mike Schmidt, and Stargell again. Should they all be kicked out of the Hall of Fame for using drugs that were just as illegal as steroids?

by RCCook on Dec 3, 2006 1:01 PM CST up reply actions

I put them all in

As far as I know, 95 percent of MLB players took steroids during the last two or three decades. If a player's numbers stack up, they should have their place in the hall. Baseball historians and students of the game will know about the steroid issue, so these guys are always going to have a little taint to them. So be it.

Nobody made this a priority until the last few years. Not the players, not the owners, not the press. Nobody. It's just the way the game was played.

If you want steroids out of the Hall of Fame, get them out of MLB. Simple.

by Dustin on Dec 3, 2006 1:13 PM CST reply actions

He goes in

I was already leaning this way, and this article cemented my position:

http://tinyurl.com/y8fw4s

I also read a great opinion article on a baseball blog lambasting the sportswriters for hypocrisy, with which I totally agree. None of them called players on their suspicions of steroid use until someone else did all the work for them and hearings were held. No one in baseball journalism had an ounce of credibility on this issue. I have searched high and low, but cannot find this article again, sorry.

by t ball on Dec 3, 2006 1:27 PM CST reply actions