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Ken Rosenthal on Teixeira, Lee, Young

Ken Rosenthal has a new column up, which includes this item on the Rangers:

If the Rangers sign the newly acquired Carlos Lee to say, a five-year, $60 million contract, it could mark the beginning of the end for first baseman Mark Teixeira in Texas.

Before addressing Lee, the Rangers likely will grant an extension to shortstop Michael Young, whose current, below-market deal expires after the 2008 season.

Teixeira is in a more tenuous position.

He is signed for $9 million next season, but after that he will be one year away from free agency and eligible for salary arbitration.

At that point, if not before, the Rangers either will be compelled to sign Teixeira to a contract extension or trade him for pitching.

A long-term deal, however, is unlikely; Teixeira's agent, Scott Boras, generally prefers his clients to determine their values on the open market.

I'm so tired of the "the Rangers need to trade Mark Teixeira for pitching" b.s.

And trading Mark Teixeira so that you can sign Mike Young and Carlos Lee long-term makes zero sense.

Teixeira is a better hitter than Young or Lee.  Really, he's a better player than either of those guys.

And he's just 26, while Lee is 30 and Young turns 30 in October.

As a general rule, you want to lock up the guys in their mid-20s long-term, not the guys with a "3" at the beginning of their age.

I've got no problem with Young being signed long-term, as long we aren't paying him on the assumption that he's going to keep producing like he did in 2005.  That looks like a peak year...his 2004 and 2006 seasons seem more in line with what he's going to do going forward, and while that's solid production, it isn't star-level production, and he shouldn't be paid as a star.

The Rangers need to let Lee walk, and try to keep Teixeira and Young.  

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That would be
the stupidest thing ever to sign a 30 year old LF to a huge contract instead of a 26 year old rising star.  

Jon Daniels is not stupid, He knows that Tex is more important than a aging power hitter.

I am more than happy with draft picks for Lee...

Not all is Wells...

by miles on Aug 6, 2006 11:05 PM CDT reply actions  

So basically
We traded mench and cordero and nix for rent-a-suck for 2 months?

No wonder this organization struggles to break from the mid-level teams.

Why dont we just say screw it, and sign them all.

by TexGoesYard on Aug 6, 2006 11:06 PM CDT reply actions  

Oh yeah
another player we "hope" will do good in who knows how many years

by TexGoesYard on Aug 6, 2006 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you aren't
happy with a high draft pick and a young good OF prospect?  
Not all is Wells...

by miles on Aug 6, 2006 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

wow draft picks, propsects
im sick of these damn P words.

picks, prospect, potential,

Did you just not start a journal asking why we can never land good prospects, and particularly pitching ones?

Hell if we suck at trying to scout players, just buy the ones that already have established credentials.

by TexGoesYard on Aug 6, 2006 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry
I don't want to sign a 30 year old, big guy that will decline very fast to a 5 year deal.  
Not all is Wells...

by miles on Aug 6, 2006 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Alright sweet
Instead of having 30 homeruns and 100 RBI's lets get some guys that MIGHT be good in 2 or 3 years.

Sounds like a good plan, cant wait to sit around checking the rangers farm probables site for the next year years.....

by TexGoesYard on Aug 6, 2006 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

There
There is every possibility that Cruz will do just as good as Mench at a fraction of the price.  Signing Lee to what he wants would be like signing CHP all over again.

by jf55510 on Aug 6, 2006 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

How much?
How much is 30 homers and 100 RBIs worth to you?

And how long do you think he's going to be able to do that?  Because he's likely going to get worse over the next few years, not better.

I mean, hell, if your attitude is that salary doesn't matters, Hicks is rich, then let's just pretend we can spend $200 million and sign every free agent.

But then, I'm sure you were probably complaining about Chan Ho Park and why the Rangers ever signed him and gave him all that money while he was here...

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 6, 2006 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nelson
He's ready now...not in 2-3 years. He should be a starting OF for the Rangers next year.

by jcir454 on Aug 6, 2006 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

30 hr and 100 rbi
He's done that twice in his 7 yr career. He's going to be on the decline in 2 yrs and it may not be a good idea to owe him 36 million while he's declining.

by mdickson on Aug 6, 2006 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

he's 26
and they said he'll start in RF next year. but whatever, just DFA everyone.

by mdickson on Aug 6, 2006 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Rent a suck"
So Lee sucks, but you want the Rangers to re-sign him to a long term deal?

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 6, 2006 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

So far he is sucking this year
But Im sure that does not mean he will suck forever.

But basically if we dont sign him we are possibly getting an extremely down 2 months, for nothing.

by TexGoesYard on Aug 6, 2006 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Look
Look at Lee's career stats, they are nothing special.

by jf55510 on Aug 6, 2006 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

So what?
That's what deadline deals generally involve.

Cruz and Mench is basically about a wash.

So you are complaining about giving up Cordero and Nix for a rent-a-player.

That's pretty ridiculous.

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 6, 2006 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

All of them
Would you be upset if they somehow signed all of them?  Obviously this dependant on the terms of the respective contracts.

by booyahcaveman on Aug 6, 2006 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Probably
The free agents are:

Lee
Stairs
Padilla
Eaton
GMJ
JHJ
Barajas
DeRosa

I don't see that all those guys should be back next year, particularly given the contracts they want.

Lee already turned down 4 years, $48 million.  That's way more than I'd pay for him.

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 6, 2006 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do we get picks
if all those guys sign somewhere else?

by Longhorn on Aug 6, 2006 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

x
We need to focus on Padilla first off..  That is the most important part of our offseason.  Maybe Eaton to 1 year.  I would love to keep Dero, but hes in for a payday...
Not all is Wells...

by miles on Aug 6, 2006 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

lee
I'd go 2 yrs/26 mill or 3 yrs/33 mill.

by mdickson on Aug 6, 2006 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Comparable players
Padilla is gone considering his mercenary like comment earlier in the year...You are probably right on Lee because apparently he wants 5 yrs and 65-70 mil which would put in the Berkman, Delgado neighborhood.  Those two players, he is definitely not.

by booyahcaveman on Aug 6, 2006 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Contracts
I really do like lee, i'd like to see him back... but not at the expense of resigning other players.
If i had to choose, i'd take padilla,eaton and gmj over lee. derosa is a good role and bench player but he will want too much money for that kind of role.
Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!

by rentz on Aug 7, 2006 6:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Tex
Yeah, i would definitely let Lee walk, and try my hardest to resign Tex. But, with no actualy proof, just a gut feeling, i really think that he has made up his mind to not to come back to Texas, most definitely test out FA, and likely sign with Baltimore.

by Longhorn on Aug 6, 2006 11:06 PM CDT reply actions  

Teixeira's Contract Demands
Weren't him and Boras asking for a "pujols-like" deal last winter?

by mdickson on Aug 6, 2006 11:10 PM CDT reply actions  

baltimore
is the place where good players go to die.

by downsetgo on Aug 6, 2006 11:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Tex
I just get a bad feeling that he is going to be a Baltimore Oriole in a few years

by booyahcaveman on Aug 6, 2006 11:14 PM CDT reply actions  

tex
i dont see him signing in baltimore.

he knows he would have no chance of competing EVER in baltimore.

at least with the rangers there is some hope since the division isnt a power house.  although he will probably go somewhere else.

Id say forget about lee, sign Young for a lot of money now to extend him say 3 years past his Arbitration period, so we can lock him up but not be paying him a ton of money in 6 years, and then focus all your signing energy on tex and free agents.

by DShep on Aug 6, 2006 11:18 PM CDT reply actions  

AJM
i read something in Newberg's report that their may not be compensation anymore for pending FAs this year...do you know if that is a definite for this upcoming FA period, or will that rule even go through fully?

by Longhorn on Aug 6, 2006 11:28 PM CDT reply actions  

Matters
This is something that will probably come up at the Winter Meetings.  If done it will apply to this yrs FAs

by booyahcaveman on Aug 6, 2006 11:30 PM CDT reply actions  

If that really happens
that would suck big hairy monkey balls.

by Longhorn on Aug 6, 2006 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Possible
This is something that Players' Union has been pushing for.  Rather unlikely it will happen but the winter meetings are always interesting this year will be no different.

by booyahcaveman on Aug 6, 2006 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

On Cruz and others...
Cruz has potential.  I just don't think the Rangers' system has the tools to bring out the best in him next year, but then I'm really down on the farm and our coaches.

It would be stupid not to resign Tex.

Signing MY is an obvious move.

Signing Carlos Lee is a stupid, stupid move.  I've said it before, but it's worth repeating - he's not good enough in the field, and his offensive numbers are not outstanding enough for him to earn $12-13 million a year for five years.  Plus, his career has already peaked.

enough is enough. i've had it with these snakes.

by chief on Aug 7, 2006 12:42 AM CDT reply actions  

"Young ... not star-level production" ?
Adam, I think I understand the argument that Young's range at short makes him not a great defensive shortstop.  But still -- he's a shortstop, and a damn good second baseman.  So shouldn't we compare Young's numbers to those of the average "replacement player" at his position?  And same with Tex?  Not saying Tex isn't going to be a star, but aren't Young's numbers "star" numbers in that context?  I'm not great with the sabermetrics, so I really am asking for explanation.  

by 1-4-06 on Aug 7, 2006 12:55 AM CDT reply actions  

Young
If he performs like he did in 2005, he's star, bordering on superstar.

If he performs like he did in 2004, and like he has this year, he's very good player borderling on star.

I think Kinsler will end up being the better player, personally.

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 7, 2006 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Adam has never forgiven Young ...
... for turning into a very good hitter.

by Athos on Aug 7, 2006 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

You disagree
with what he said in the first two lines? That doesn't seem very debatable, unless you are willing to eschew EqA and all other respectable metrics and rely on the same instincts that make Yankee fans think Derek Jeter is the best player in the last 30 years. I love Young, but his numbers are his numbers.

by Brett Perryman on Aug 7, 2006 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

As much as I want Lee to sign lee and carry...
the franchise, I have visions of an Adrian Beltre-esuqe train wreck in the back of my head.

He's definitely a better player than Mench, but I really hope that we don't give him what he's asking for right now. Especially if it means trading Teixeira.

Because of we trade Teixeira for pitching and sign Lee long term, I think that we'll be opening up a hole in the lineup nearly as big as the one in the pitching staff. The offense isn't anything special this year and Teixeira is carrying it right now.

by austintxhorn on Aug 7, 2006 1:01 AM CDT reply actions  

Lee
While i do not think he is worth the money he wants, he is definitely not a Beltre-esque signing for whoever does sign him.  He has progressed very nicely as a hitter but is an average OF at best.  The length is the real problem.  The first three years of the deal could be justifiable possibly but the last 2 where he is 34 and 35 respectively and making 13-14 mil a yr, that is where the problem lies.

by booyahcaveman on Aug 7, 2006 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree in part
because Beltre's career year was WAY higher than his previous averages. But I mostly make the Beltre comparison in terms of train wreckage. I could see Lee being a solid player the first few years, but as AJM mentioned the other day, his body will most likely eventually wear down. After that, you have the potential for a Beltre sized embarrassment.

by austintxhorn on Aug 7, 2006 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

hmmm
See i really dont think he could break down, but you are right, you never know esp with a big 34-35 yr old.  Maybe it is a sign that he wants the EXACT 5 yr 65 mil deal that chan suck ass got

by booyahcaveman on Aug 7, 2006 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think....
you can compare Beltre to Lee. They have way different track records. Beltre literally had one absolutely unbelievable year, his FA year, and several below average years before that. Lee, however, has had 4 or 5 solid years in a row, this current one being his best. Lee has definately been a more consistent player throughout his career than Beltre. Regardless though, there is no way the Rangers should pay him the kind of money he wants. Although I would really love to see him in a Ranger uniform past this year, its just not the smart thing to do with that price tag.
rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Aug 7, 2006 1:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

x
Honestly i think that Lee will find that kind of money he wants wont be out there period.  I think he will regret turning down that deal with the Brewers unless he has a torrid finish to the season

by booyahcaveman on Aug 7, 2006 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

RE: x
Honestly i think that Lee will find that kind of money he wants wont be out there period.

I don't know. I've lost pretty much all faith in the free agent market. How many guys with the production of Carlos Lee have to settle for less than they were looking for these days?

Usually, somebody is dumb enough to jump out and offer the guy what (or close) they are looking for.

by austintxhorn on Aug 7, 2006 1:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

FA market
I don't know. I've lost pretty much all faith in the free agent market. How many guys with the production of Carlos Lee have to settle for less than they were looking for these days?

Most of the time, you're right. Free agents won't usually live up to their contract.

There's a reason for buyer's remorse.

Req

by Requiem on Aug 7, 2006 2:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed...
on everything.

Well written post.

Req

by Requiem on Aug 7, 2006 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh wait...
have to disagree with something.

Beltre was average or better his first two full seasons (1999-2000).

But recently he has been average to below average except for that one fluke pre-FA season.

Req

by Requiem on Aug 7, 2006 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Subject should have read...
"As much as I want to sign Lee and have him carry the franchise". Whoops.

by austintxhorn on Aug 7, 2006 1:02 AM CDT reply actions  

Adam you rule
I agree totally. However unfortunatly, trading Teixeira is a foregone conclusion, as the Rangers have longstanding franchise policy of not attempting to resign good players.

by Sharky on Aug 7, 2006 5:15 AM CDT reply actions  

Id resign Lee
if it were for three years, id jump all over it. Basically tell him he is going to DH and start once or twice a week in left, and play in a great hitters ballpark with a chance to win the division for the next three years. If that doesnt work, then give Torri Hunter what he wants and get him here.

Resign Padilla and GMJ. Then get Eaton and Wells (if he is a FA after this year)

by Nichols22 on Aug 7, 2006 9:43 AM CDT reply actions  

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