Idle thought re: TBIA, the Gold Club, and all that

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 7, 2006 10:58 AM CDT in News

So the Rangers had a wind analysis done of TBIA, are looking at ways to make TBIA less hitter-friendly, the media is talking about ripping out the Gold Club...

And it occurs to me...the Rockies have been doing the humidor thing for the baseballs they are using at Coors Field. And it seems to be working quite well.

If the Rangers are concerned about all the homers at TBIA and how far the ball carries, why not do the same thing here? Why not start putting the game balls in a humidor before games, like the Rockies do?

Wouldn't that be a lot cheaper, simpler, and easier than re-working the park, moving the fences, ripping out the Gold Club, and all that?

Tweet Comment 30 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Why do anything?

Both teams play under the same conditions so what difference does it make?

Additionally, the Rangers have had a winning record at home every year but the current one since 2000 even though most of those teams weren't very good.

by LoneStarBallUser on Aug 7, 2006 11:08 AM CDT reply actions

Doing something

I'm not really an advocate of doing anything.

But if you are going to do something, it seems like the humidor is a lot more reasonable way to do it.

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 7, 2006 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions

Because a Humidor

would probably make the Rangers a biggers hitters park.

Denver is a city that has relatively low humidity, and the worry is that balls "Dry out" and become Rock hard when the humidor is set for 40%.

Dallas evenings have humidity in the 60% range. Setting the humidor for 40% would dry the ball out some, and make it stiffer, which would tend to make it go farther.

In Dallas' humidity, you'd damn near have to stick a ball in a steam bath to have it get much softer.

The 40% number, IIRC, wasn't arbitrarily set. When balls are tested by MLB, they are tested at 40%. I doubt that the Rangers could get clearance to put them in a 80%-100% humidity chamber to make them mushier.

Baseball wives are leeches. ... They're just hookers on retainer. -- Rangerchick

by DJCahill on Aug 7, 2006 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions

That would make sense

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 7, 2006 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions

because...

While I basically agree with you, I think the thought is that it is difficult for the Rangers to recruit top of the line pitchers because they don't want their statistics screwed up by the ballpark. Kevin Millwood's attitude that his ERA doesn't matter and he only cares about his W/L is the exception, I'm afraid.

You might think I'm crazy. I agree with you.

by trza on Aug 7, 2006 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions

And?

Conversly, hitters should be more apt to come here, so it all evens out.

Unless you're saying pitching is more important than hitting, which it isn't. They're the same important.

by Sharky on Aug 7, 2006 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions

humidor

It seems totally insane to me that MLB allows the Rockies to basically doctor the ball for every home game. It's worth it for the Rangers to inquire about it, because if they are allowed to do it then there is no reason to disallow the Rangers from using it.

You might think I'm crazy. I agree with you.

by trza on Aug 7, 2006 11:09 AM CDT reply actions

Humidor

The Rockies have been using the humidor for years. All the sudden this year the numbers have dropped off there. There is speculation they are doing more than just putting the ball's in a humidor.

by Blair Kelly on Aug 7, 2006 11:23 AM CDT reply actions

gold club

whats the logic behind that? why do they think it makes it a more hitter friendly park/

by selppuc on Aug 7, 2006 11:23 AM CDT reply actions

Gold Club

The logic behind it was a bottom line. Hicks was trying to create an environment where people would come and sit comfortably inside and spend more money. He looked at the Jerry Jones models for places to eat and drink before and during the game, and tried to get something like that for himself. When the place was built, there was no concern about the affects it would have on the game itself.

by pablo @ Lone Star Ball on Aug 7, 2006 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions

Humidity

I've spent very little time in DFW, but I do spend time in Denver and I believe it's more humid in DFW than Denver. (the humidity at the two cities is very similar right now, but I'm guessing that will change). The humidor in Denver is less about adding more moisture to the balls than it is about replacing the moisture that gets sucked out of them by Denver's climate. My guess is that was the justification by MLB to allow the Rockies to use the humidor - to make the balls more like the ones you'd find at other ballparks, and not to make them different.

Also, I would think that due to less air pressure in Denver, the balls dry out quicker than in other lower cities.

Fire Buck, DFA everyone, burn down the stadium.

by WyoRanger on Aug 7, 2006 11:24 AM CDT reply actions

Pitching

i think the best thing to do would be to get some good pitching. has anyone done a study on the effect of having bad pitching every year.

by stoney022 on Aug 7, 2006 12:13 PM CDT reply actions

X

Well its like one of those which came first the chicken or the egg arguments....The rangers have a notorious hitter friendly park. Just look at their park factor according to baseball-reference.com if you want hard evidence. The problem is that a lot of FA pitchers (a good way to obtain pitching obviously) do not want to come to Texas because of how much TBIA favors hitters. While developing pitchers has not exactly been the Rangers' strength, BUT I think they have finally stumbled on to something with the pitching prospects they have because they all have high K numbers which the Rangers have rarely had at the big league level.

Yes they could get some "good" pitching, but look at Millwood's numbers (small sample size I know). I dont think anyone can really argue that he isnt a "good" pitcher.

by booyahcaveman on Aug 7, 2006 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Way back when

I used to play fairly competitive Softball. People had to bring their own balls which were in use when their offense was up. There was occasional experiments at microwaving (to boil water out) and freezing ( to make the core harder) tried. Some of those balls definitely flew further in the early innings, before the ball was beat to crap.

Baseball wives are leeches. ... They're just hookers on retainer. -- Rangerchick

by DJCahill on Aug 7, 2006 12:25 PM CDT reply actions

Hitter's parks not good for team

Whether a humidor would help or not I think the issue goes well beyond "both teams play in the same conditions."

While this is true, it's misleading. The opponent doesn't necessarilky play 81 games in a hitter's park. The team coming in didn't necessarily play a 12 game stand in a hitter's park and ravage their bullpen and their starter's arms for two weeks. leaving the Rangers at a significant disadvantage.

The home park may go as far as helping determine whether the 25th spot is spent on an arm or a bat.

There are far reaching affects from the degree of hitter/pitcher park the team plays in.

by tspeck007 on Aug 7, 2006 12:31 PM CDT reply actions

I agree 100 percent

I've been saying that for years. The Rangers have to work so hard on the home mound that eventually it takes its toll on the whole staff.

by Dustin on Aug 7, 2006 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Then why

Do the Astros win the World Series every year?

Or the Yankees?

Those two teams. Every year.

Look, park doesn't matter. Dont be illogical.

by Sharky on Aug 7, 2006 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions

x

You are right in a way. In the playoffs, you just have to outpitch the other guy. If you have to work hard, the other guy has to equally.

Not all is Wells...

by miles on Aug 7, 2006 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Couldn't we just get better pitchers?

by pblack on Aug 7, 2006 12:32 PM CDT reply actions

Better pitchers

The Rangers' pitchers are 5th in the A.L. in road ERA this season.

TBIA causes runs scored to go up. Doesn't matter if you have good pitchers or bad pitchers, there are going to be more runs scored at TBIA than at, say, Safeco.

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 7, 2006 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Isn't that mostly because of Millwood?

I think you can pitch in TBIA and the massive amounts of runs are largely the result of sending guys like Chan Ho Park, Gil Heredia, Kevin Gross, Mark Clark et al, out there since its inception. I am not saying it will be the pitchers' park that they have in Seattle or Detroit, but it is not a 1990's Coors Field either.

by pblack on Aug 7, 2006 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions

No, that's not the case

More runs are scored in games the Rangers play at TBIA than in games played on the road.

That's what makes TBIA a hitter's park, not because of guys like Chan Ho Park.

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 7, 2006 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions

not neccesarily

if the rangers pitching is bad, then there will be more runs scored at tbia. also, shouldnt it be noted that with an unbalanced schedule the majority of the road games will be in seattle, a pitchers park, oakland a bad offensive team, and laa, pretty good. so if the pitchers are bad they have more opportunity to look good on the road and the runs scored where they make most of their starts, tbia, will be higher because they arent as good.

by stoney022 on Aug 7, 2006 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions

Since this is Texas and all...

... it has occurred to me to keep the balls in a big vat of nacho cheese instead of a humidor.

Rangers Farm Probables

by shroomer on Aug 7, 2006 12:42 PM CDT reply actions

Why dont we

just get some decent pitchers that can beat the other teams pitchers and not worry about how far our hitters jack balls out of the park.

by dubman @ Lone Star Ball on Aug 7, 2006 1:45 PM CDT reply actions

plus, even if the humidor did work

it cuts down to everything.

the only problem (if any...) is right center.

left field in arlington is not a hitters park, its fairly neutral.

So yeah, thats making it harder to hit to all fields when only one part is a problem.

by DShep on Aug 7, 2006 2:49 PM CDT reply actions

Flag pole

I think we need a flag pole in center field

by mattrpav on Aug 7, 2006 3:39 PM CDT reply actions

x

Where the grass is, turn that into a huge swimming pool...

Not all is Wells...

by miles on Aug 7, 2006 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Joe Sheehan

has an opinion on this:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5386

He would be very much against it. Meddling with the ball to remove the effects of the park appears to be a very bad thing in his mind.

by rooster on Aug 7, 2006 4:17 PM CDT reply actions

Yep

I almost made a diary about this a couple weeks ago. An article said runs per game were down from 15 to 9 I think at Coors field. Statistically, that's an absurdly huge reduction.

For years I have been of the opinion that todays high levels of offense have been caused more than anything else by a juiced ball, and the fact modifying balls via the humidor can have such a huge effect on numbers at Coors strongly feels like a huge piece of evidence that is true.

It couldn't have been steroids or smaller parks because the huge increase all happened from one season to the next. Everybody didn't start taking steroids in one offseason. Especially since guys like Tom House admitted they were doing them back in the seventies.

by Sharky on Aug 7, 2006 7:09 PM CDT reply actions