Hurley

by jcir454 on Aug 9, 2006 9:43 PM CDT Comment 38 comments

Another impressive outing tonight by Hurley for Frisco.

His line: 6.0 IP 4 H 2 ER 1 BB 9 K

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Nice

by murph22 on Aug 9, 2006 9:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

x

Who think that Hurley is a better prospect than Diamond?

Not all is Wells...

by miles on Aug 9, 2006 9:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I've thought that for about a year now

by BurntOrange on Aug 9, 2006 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Raises Hand!

Blow this team up, they have no chemistry, no heart and no balls. They should be ashamed to be called "professionals."

by ortonius on Aug 9, 2006 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like Hurley more than Diamond

Loving his control so far. A 21:6 K/BB ratio in his first 24 AA innings.

by austintxhorn on Aug 9, 2006 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hurley will be the best

of our pitchers if he stays healthy.

by Brett Perryman on Aug 9, 2006 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The fastball is big league right now, no question about it. Not just the velocity, but it's got life and when he locates it well like he did the night I saw him, there's nothing hitters can do with it.

When he gets it up, however, he gets clobbered, like everyone else. That's why he was getting pounded in his last few starts in the Cal League, I'm told. I saw it myself this spring when the Royals kids just ripped up his belt-high 96 mph fastballs for three innings.

But what if he never develops his change or gains consistency with his slider? Don't you think that will eventually limit him?

I know results mean a lot, but I really want to see more than that fastball, no matter how good it is.

Personally, I'd rather see him get beat up a little bit learning to work in his secondary pitches than just dominate with his heater because eventually, it's just not going to be enough for him to be the ace he could become.

by mjh on Aug 10, 2006 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

"But what if he never develops his change or gains consistency with his slider? Don't you think that will eventually limit him?"

I'm betting that those happen, that's why I think that. Did you get to see his TV game? He threw a handful of sweet vulcan changeups. And the slider will be adequate, imo. Not dominating, but it's not that far away. I do not believe he will be a one pitch pitcher at all. The guy's in his second year out of HS, for gosh sakes.

by Brett Perryman on Aug 10, 2006 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't dogging the kid

as you seem to think I was; I just can't put him on the same level as Danks yet since I've only seen one plus pitch so far.

by mjh on Aug 10, 2006 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can relate

to that. But as happy as we all are about the progress of his changeup, I'm not sure Danks has even one plus major league pitch (well, the curve certainly projects as one at least). Obviously the curve is the most promising one. But I know what you're saying, Danks has a solid FB, and both of his other pitches are way further along than Hurley's. And he's LH. I'm just not sure I've ever seen Danks get as high of a rate of swings and misses as I have Hurley in the little that I've seen of Hurley. But they both have HR problems that they need to work hard on.

I like 'em both quite a bit, like you. I believe I've had Danks rated #1 every time I've given my personal list lately. I think they have a better chance of overcoming their deficiencies than Volquez and Diamond do, not that I'm not high on Volquez either.

I was just making an HSO with the 'Hurley will be best if healthy' statement. I just have a feeling about that.

by Brett Perryman on Aug 10, 2006 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

You think Hurley has a good change and Danks doesn't?

by mjh on Aug 11, 2006 5:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think pretty much everyone

who knows even a little about the 4

by Longhorn on Aug 10, 2006 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shhhh

keep it quiet or we'll get everyone clamoring to bring him up to replace Volquez if he loses his next start

by t ball on Aug 9, 2006 9:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Standings

Absolutely think Hurley is a better prospect than Diamond..... no doubt.... I honestly think Volquez will end up in the pen..... my pitching standings are Danks, Hurley, Volquez, Diamond......

by bigups41 on Aug 9, 2006 10:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

agree

100% agreement with those rankings here.

by gk314 on Aug 9, 2006 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ranks

not a bad rank of the pitchers, though i disagree on volquez i think he will turn into a good starter.
i'm not ready to give up on diamond yet, he has shown moments of pure dominance, and then moments of utter failure....if he can just harness his talent he could be a dominating reliever.

Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!

by rentz on Aug 9, 2006 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say

Danks/Hurley tied for first

then Volquez, Kiker, Poveda, Diamond

That's how the first six go for me. And again, I'm not sure that Rupe isn't at least an equal prospect to Diamond. His stuff is just as nasty.

by Brett Perryman on Aug 9, 2006 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why is

Kiker so high, isn't that a little soon?

Not all is Wells...

by miles on Aug 9, 2006 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

I don't believe in automatic discounts for arbitrary reasons. I think that you make your best guess on guys based on what you know, and while you certainly discount some for bust factor when a guy is more unproven, you also should give a really big bonus to guys who exhibit the potential to be a top player. We can be fairly sure that Diamond isn't going to be an ace in his career. So if I think someone lower down really does have the stuff to be high in a rotation, I'm not going to automatically rank him below Diamond just because Diamond is 23 and in AA. The indications I see from Kiker in terms of his stuff and advanced performance excite me. Same, but to a little less extent, with Poveda.

by Brett Perryman on Aug 9, 2006 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This goes back to the arguments

Adam and Burnt and I used to have over Danks. Adam believes that you don't get "excited" over a player until he reaches AA. And that's fine, but it's semantics. I used to say that Danks was the top pitching prospect in the system back in his first year, when he was in Low/High A. And they argued that it was Erik Thompson, then John Hudgins.

Was I automatically wrong to say Danks was better, since it was "too soon?" And wasn't I probably right after all?

by Brett Perryman on Aug 9, 2006 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Being better...

and having the potential to be better I think is where those arguments come from.

Kiker potentially has the chance to be better than Diamond, just like Danks had the potential to be better than Thompson and Hudgins. But when you're 2 or so years behind another player (especially as a pitcher) I don't think it's worth making that comparison because there are just so many things that could happen.

That's why I don't put a lot of stock into players before AA (especially pitchers) and because of guys like Thompson, Koz, Hudgins etc... I'm not even really looking that closely until they get to AAA.

I think it's fun to rank players and pitchers from our system but I honestly think its pretty meaningless as well.

by chase1971 on Aug 10, 2006 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh

I just don't understand you guys' attitude toward this. I mean I understand that a lot can happen, for sure, to players at lower levels. But you guys take this way too far. You ignore the obvious just because it requires some projection or harder analysis. Well guess what, trying to project Diamond, or everyone's favorite, Haigwood, as major league starters requires a hell of a lot of projection too.

by Brett Perryman on Aug 10, 2006 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Harder analysis

I'm obviously not a scout and never get to watch pitchers coming up. All I have access to is to look at the stats and listen to what scouts and observers get to see, but if you dont factor in risk then I think you're ignoring a big part of the equation.

I myself happen to be a big pessimist so it makes it even harder for me to get excited about someone in low A. Especially considering how many good low A pitchers we've had the past few years flame out at AA.

by chase1971 on Aug 10, 2006 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kiker

Did you look at the log for the 3rd inning of his last start? I think it's interesting that the week after Kiker admits in a local newspaper article that he has no clue how to hold baserunners on the other team puts on its track shoes. Micucci saw Kasey's befuddlement and had to visit the mound to emphasize getting the batter out instead of worrying himself into wildness over the baserunners going on nearly every pitch. The third run he allowed was fairly legit - a double [Herren dove and missed - doh - turning a single into a double] and a single, but the first two runs were the result of green light basepaths.

Rangers Farm Probables

by shroomer on Aug 10, 2006 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's amazing

that a guy can be polished enough as a pitcher to handle the NWL out of HS, but so unpolished that he has no idea what to do with baserunners. Of course maybe it's the pure filth of his stuff than it is polish that has allowed him to succeed there.

by Brett Perryman on Aug 10, 2006 1:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

x

It may speak to his dominance in high school. Maybe he just didn't face many circumstances that he had to worry about runners. When he did have a runner on, he just figured he'd get the rest of them out and it wouldn't be an issue.

by jtts on Aug 10, 2006 3:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

baserunners are a new concept for him

by mjh on Aug 10, 2006 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

quotes and a pic

quote from aug 3d -

Coming straight out of high school with a $1.6 million signing bonus, Kiker has had to learn different strategies of the game from the mound, such as paying attention to the base runners.

"In high school I just left them on base and wouldn't worry about them," Kiker said. "I'd just try to get the batter out."

Kiker said he has been working on his pitching location and focusing on every pitch. If he wants to make it to the big leagues in three years, Kiker knows what he has to do.

"I just have to continue to progress and get better every day," he said. "Me and (Spokane manager Mike) Micucci have a goal to try and get better every day."

Kiker throws a curveball, a change-up and a fastball in the 90s, which Clark calls a "solid average major league pitch."

pic from last night - http://tinyurl.com/zn9et

his grip on the ball -> middle and ring finger holding the ball, index finger relaxed, thumb cocked at the knuckle = change-up?

Rangers Farm Probables

by shroomer on Aug 10, 2006 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

probably a curve

I'm no pitching coach and I can't open the photo for some reason, but I'd say that if the index finger is dangling off the ball and the thumb is tucked, it's probably a CB grip.

As I was taught, the key finger in a CB is the middle finger against a seam. Some people teach you to just keep the index finger extended and off the ball altogether; I was taught a knuckle curve in which you fold the index finger back under your palm to keep it out of the way and tuck the thumb back underneath. So if the index finger isn't involved and the thumb is tucked, I'd say it's probably a CB.

by mjh on Aug 10, 2006 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.......

does the kid have a change up ? I mean a decent pitch ?

Looks like alot of times, no matter how hard they might throw, a lefty needs a decent to good change to get right-handers out in the Bigs.

by tklawless on Aug 10, 2006 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

middle finger

looks like it's gripping right down the seam longways, not across or perpendicular

pic is on the front page of the Indians' official website

Rangers Farm Probables

by shroomer on Aug 10, 2006 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Top pitching

prospect...Colby Lewis!!!

Not all is Wells...

by miles on Aug 10, 2006 12:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

GB:FB

Is he considered more of a flyballer?

I just noticed he gave up the two taters yesterday, has a few too many on the year.

Great numbers for the guy, don't get me wrong.

Where are current-year GB:FB stats found?

by hightowersmith on Aug 10, 2006 9:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Are you asking about Kiker?

1.03 G/F ratio

by mjh on Aug 10, 2006 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hurley's ratios

0.87 G/F in Bakersfield;
0.88 G/F in Frisco;
0.72 G/F in Clinton last year.

by mjh on Aug 10, 2006 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eric Hurley

Last night during the Roughriders game, Scott Garner,said that Hurley threw 9 change-ups in his previous start and 7 were for strikes.
He also said that during the third and fourth innings of last night`s game he threw 30 pitches, 27 for strikes.
In my opinion if he can locate his fastball to BOTH sides of the plate consistently, it`s like having two pitches.
For what it`s worth Papelbon didn`t master his splitty until AA.
I think Hurley will be just fine.

by 82Cardinals on Aug 10, 2006 12:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Me too

I think that's a really good comment. Plus you have how different the two seamer and four seamer are for him.

by Brett Perryman on Aug 10, 2006 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hurley

His slider has been said many, many times is by far a plus pitch...... big league ready now.... i tell you what is impressive is his ability to locate the slider in and away..... its definetly a great pitch... the change, as we all know, is a work in progress........ but the way it has come along the past four or five games in AA has been amazingly impressive.....

I am really excited about this kid.... he is only going to get better and stronger as he gets older..... gotta remember......

HE IS ONLY 20!!!!!... LOL....

by bigups41 on Aug 10, 2006 8:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs