Some of my thoughts on the deal

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 21, 2007 6:59 PM CST in News Comment 93 comments

Huh. Christmas Eve, 2006, DVD gets broken up, with John Danks going to the ChiSox.

362 days later, the V gets dealt. Obviously, the Rangers front office doesn't shut down early for the holidays.

I was involved in a discussion earlier today on the NMLR board, in a thread where a poster suggested a Volquez and Teagarden for Hamilton trade, which I was against. It led to an email exchange, where I was asked if I'd do Volquez for Hamilton straight up.

My response:

Probably not, although I'd think about it. It may be that I'm just too burned by the Steve Howe experience.

If I thought there was a 0% chance (or close to that) of him falling off the wagon, I'd probably do Hamilton for Volquez.

This is, like the D-Rays swap of Delmon Young for Matt Garza, a classic need for need trade...the Reds have lots of nice outfielders, particularly with Jay Bruce on the cusp, and need arms. The Rangers have lots of quality young arms, but desperately need quality in the outfield, particularly centerfield.

I have to think that Hamilton will be the Rangers' regular centerfielder. Hamilton was awful against lefties in 2007, but you don't give up Volquez to pick up a 26 year old centerfielder who is going to platoon.

Milton Bradley will be playing everyday (when he's healthy), presumably at right field, although he may have to start at DH.

That leaves left field, and either DH or RF (depending on how quickly Milton Bradley comes back from the ACL tear), to be divvied up. You've got five candidates -- Marlon Byrd, Frank Catalanotto, Jason Botts, David Murphy, and Nelson Cruz -- and presumably only three roster spots, since Chris Shelton, Ramon Vazquez, and Gerald Laird will be filling three bench roles.

I'd be fine with a Byrd/Cat platoon in left field, Botts at DH, and Murphy in AAA until someone gets hurt, although I have a sneaking suspicion that this move may spell the end of Jason Botts' time with the Rangers, which would disappoint me.

If the Rangers don't think Bradley will be ready to play RF to start the year, you end up with Murphy in RF, a Cat/Byrd platoon in LF, and Bradley DHing, although you could send Murphy down, keep Botts and platoon him in LF with Cat, and have Byrd play regularly in RF until Bradley is ready.

But I wouldn't be surprised if, at some point over the next few days, we see that Botts or Cruz has been DFA'd, with the Rangers trying to run them through waivers, or else dealt.

I saw a suggestion elsewhere that this is the Rangers "giving up" on Edinson Volquez, which reminds me of the claims last winter that the Rangers "gave up" on John Danks. I didn't buy that argument then, and I don't buy it now. I think this is the Rangers giving up someone they really like to get someone else they really like, that fills an immediate need.

I also think that you're going to see one of the broken pitchers picked up on a one year, incentive laden deal, at some point in the next month. Bartolo Colon, Jason Jennings, Fat Freddy Garcia...someone like that, on a one year deal, picked up to fill out the rotation and to give Eric Hurley a little more time before he has to step into the rotation.

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I love the deal

by rangeressary on Dec 21, 2007 6:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I hate the deal

oops... I don't hate.

I dislike the deal.

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 8:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Me too

I am in on the deal. I like Edinson, I just don't think he is ever going to throw enough strikes. He has the arm.

by the other dierk in dallas on Dec 21, 2007 8:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Opps

meant to reply to the one above it

by the other dierk in dallas on Dec 21, 2007 8:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

have another drink

it's on me

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks,

I appreciate the hell out of that!

by the other dierk in dallas on Dec 21, 2007 9:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Botts is going to be the

odd man out. And why have Shelton on the bench? If Broussard plays first, Shelton is released or in OKC.

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws. ~Rick Wise, 1974

by RangerMad on Dec 21, 2007 7:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

shelton

can't go to okc without clearing waivers first

i think the big reason they got him was as an insurance policy if they couldnt get broussard

Can you please Look into getting a less funny signature? That's sarcasm, btw. - Sharky

by rentz on Dec 21, 2007 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because

Shelton has some bat and he's somewhat versatile defensively. He's a great bench player.

by brettgardner on Dec 21, 2007 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm assuming...

...Broussard and Shelton would platoon...

If not, Shelton would probably be replaced with Murphy.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 21, 2007 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

heres a Josh Hamilton information tidbit ...

he throws a mid 90s fastball..well he does have
a good arm on him doesn't he?

"Take this offer and shove it !!" Hunter,Gagne, Jones, Fuku

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 21, 2007 7:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hamilton

He had 7 OF assists in 90 games last year, and his Range Factor in both center and right was above-average. From everything I've heard, he's a very good defensive outfielder.

I hate to lose Volquez, but Hamilton is an impressive player in his own right, and has just as much, if not more, upside.

"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on Dec 21, 2007 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bleh....

RC, Range Factor sucks.

Req

by Requiem on Dec 21, 2007 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hamilton's Defense

How about PMOR?
http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023939.php

The Reds had an above CF and Hamilton was above average in CF by PMOR.

I have a good friend that is a Reds fan and he is sorry to see Hamilton go. He told me that Josh has great wheels in CF and is exciting to watch. Will probably become a fan favorite.

Heh, he did add that watching Griffey in CF does make lots of guys look good out there, but he felt good about Hamilton's defense.

by Brandon Wilson on Dec 21, 2007 9:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't know...

it's likely better than Range Factor.... Heck, almost everything is better than RF... My only beef is using RF to judge a player's defense. It's almost as bad as using fielding pct. IMO.

Req

by Requiem on Dec 22, 2007 2:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bartolo

would be the best pitcher to pickup... Fat Freddy isn't good and was in the NL, Jason Jennings played for the Astros...

Colon could have a bounceback year and knows the division like the back of his hand...

Can't wait for Brett Michael's Rock of Love II...

by miles on Dec 21, 2007 7:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

prior

I'd probably rather gamble with Prior.

by JKolar on Dec 21, 2007 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That doesn't do you any good

if Adam is correct in thinking the purpose would be to give Hurley more time. Prior isn't expected to be ready to go right away is he?

Tomorrow Never Knows

by t ball on Dec 21, 2007 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nope...

and I think the Rangers are out of the bidding for him for just that reason. By the time he is healthy Hurley would be ready, would not make much sense.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 21, 2007 10:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The fact of the matter

is that we could have a pretty fair team next season if Bradley doe not fall apart or go crazy, Hamilton stays clean and Padilla starts taking his meds.

If not we will have no worse than what we expected this team to be anyway.

by rldwb on Dec 21, 2007 7:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Bill James projection for Hamilton

.305/.382/.598

Let that sink in. Then remember that this is a good defensive CF.

LF platoon = Catalanatto and Byrd. CaTyrd for short?

by tricer on Dec 21, 2007 7:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That's

Insane. And it hasn't even sunk in yet.

"When I was a pup, we got spanked by presidents 'til the cows came home! Grover Cleveland spanked me on two non-consecutive occasions!" LBrooks

by WyoRanger on Dec 21, 2007 7:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but...

It is based on so small a sample size, he might as well be using a Ouija board...

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 21, 2007 7:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That was genuinely funny!

Good job.

I own a lot of Apple stock,so buy more iPhones!

by Ajax on Dec 21, 2007 9:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry Adam, but I'll take my chances

with Bill James!

by tklawless on Dec 22, 2007 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And to think

It was just a couple of days ago when everyone was kicking around Juan Pierre roaming center field.

by B_Black on Dec 21, 2007 8:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i think

with juan pierre you KNOW what you're gonna get.

and that's a .300 average, 10 triples and 50 stolen bases. he never strikes out, but other than singles and the occasional triple, he can't hit.

hamilton has lotsa upside. not sure what you can get with him.

if we're lucky, a .290 average and 30 homers.

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on Dec 21, 2007 8:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To me you know what you're going to get

He's a ridiculous talent and he showed that. What you don't know is his health and whether he can stay on the field. But he will hit, I don't doubt that for a second.

BTW, I hear he has some wheels which makes him all the more important for us because of the large dimensions of our park. I hope he has the instincts to go along with it.

by slimshadty12 on Dec 22, 2007 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and to think a couple of months ago

several months back...

nobody wanted to give of Volquez

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 8:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dammit!

I take one day and swear I won't check the intertubes so I can get crap done before X-mas, and look what I miss?

I guess I like the deal, but I liked Edinson. And I'm going to beat senseless the first Reds writer that calls him Edison.

"When I was a pup, we got spanked by presidents 'til the cows came home! Grover Cleveland spanked me on two non-consecutive occasions!" LBrooks

by WyoRanger on Dec 21, 2007 7:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

damn

this does hurt. Volquez did everything the Rangers asked of him. Went back to A ball and battled back with some fairly nasty numbers.

just damn, nothing more...

if you apologize for everything, you apologize for nothing...

by Longhorn on Dec 21, 2007 7:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

From a read or two on Reds boards

Edinson might get his payoff, they figure he'll start, and in the NL Central at that. I hope he does well.

'At Georgia Southern, we don't cheat. That costs money and we don't have any.' Erk Russell / Georgia Southern

by Ed Coffin on Dec 21, 2007 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

just double damn

nothing more...

eom...

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 8:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Also

i think Jamey and JD are pretty good friends.

if you apologize for everything, you apologize for nothing...

by Longhorn on Dec 21, 2007 7:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Jamey said

he wouldn't want to trade away Volquez for Hamilton.

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 8:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not really ...

Jamey said he wouldn't trade Volquez and and Teagarden for Hamilton. Jamey never said anything about Volquez straight up other than the Reds could do better.

I bet Jamey thinks it's a great trade for the Rangers based on his opinion of Hamilton's worth.

by northtexan95 on Dec 21, 2007 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you are correct

he did mention TT in on that.

Still, I'm a rather shocked we got rid of Volquez.

Anyway, thanks for the correction.

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This could make

a big difference with our team. We now have a pretty damn good CF and about 25-30 HR's if healthy, and now it pretty much forces us to give Bartolo a shot. What if he is has a comeback year and the Rangers git a little bit of luck?

by the other dierk in dallas on Dec 21, 2007 8:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Don't Like It

I think Cincy did a great job of selling high. This guy has major baggage.

by Kyle Mc on Dec 21, 2007 8:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

If he stays sober

he also is a big time defensive CF who hits like a COF.

"As of now they're (The Astros) world series favorites. Period." - Sharky

by DJCahill on Dec 21, 2007 8:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The guy

has BIG time power capability.

by the other dierk in dallas on Dec 21, 2007 8:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

The possibility of having a center fielder who hits .300 with 30 HR and a .370-380 OBP is pretty enticing. Giving up Volquez sucks, but he's just as much a risk as Hamilton, and I think having Hurley and Harrison on the way made this a much easier deal to make.

Plus Hamilton is under the Rangers' control for five more seasons (his age 27-31 years) and gives the team a potential middle-of-the-order bat at a premium defensive position.

JD is making a real effort to add young talent with high upside- Salty, Andrus, Beltre, Kiker, Beavan, Main, and now Hamilton- and those are the kinds of players who, if they pan out, can form the nucleus of a championship ballclub. And even if they don't pan out, they often make for great trade chips.

"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on Dec 21, 2007 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rangers control...

him for 5 more years. This has to be why JD was willing to give up EV. If he hits big on this deal you have a huge piece to the puzzle for the future. I really hate seeing EV go and personally I wouldn't have made this deal, but I hope I'm wrong and it works out. Stay clean Josh, and good luck Edinson.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 21, 2007 10:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The thing is

I'm not sure how long he will stay in CF. He's not that fast and has a decent arm, i guess...

He better hit and continue to hit...

if you apologize for everything, you apologize for nothing...

by Longhorn on Dec 21, 2007 9:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

speed

based on what I've heard and read he has more speed than you suggest.

by Brandon Wilson on Dec 21, 2007 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If I remember correctly,

JD said in a radio interview this evening that Hamilton has maybe the 3rd best arm in the outfield.

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws. ~Rick Wise, 1974

by RangerMad on Dec 21, 2007 9:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sober???

Maybe you should say... if he stays drug free.

Hell, he was addicted to cocaine and crack and every drug on the street. "It got so bad at the end that I just started smoking (crack). I did it so much it was like smoking cigarettes," Hamilton says.

Hopefully he want try to commit suicide again and overdose with pills.

Hell, lets hope he doesn't decide to jump off a building in Dallas. However, he does have a good choice.

Lets see if he wants to jump. Go for the Bank of America Plaza, Renaissance Tower, Bank One Center or Chase Tower. Happy jumping, Josh.

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 9:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Heaven forbid

You ever fall down in your life in any way. I'm not saying the guy's a saint or anything, but he's come back personally and professionally in a big way. Maybe you need to go test out the rooftop on one of those bulidings and let us know how it goes.

There's one word that describes baseball - `You never know.' - Joaquin Andujar

by jbooth17 on Dec 21, 2007 9:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+ 1

Josh Hamilton should be applauded on making such a wonderful comeback not made fun of. None of us are infallible - it could happen to you. Let's give credit where it's due his story is pretty amazing.

"Take this offer and shove it !!" Hunter,Gagne, Jones, Fuku

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 21, 2007 10:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

what a retard

Drug addiction like his is a disease. Not really a joking matter. At least not if the joke isn't funny.

by hubcityraider on Dec 22, 2007 1:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's a weakness

Not a disease. Parkinson's is a disease. MS is a disease. It's not a disease if the only thing you have to do to "cure" it is to stop doing it.

Oh Man!!!!

by SwiperNoSwiping on Dec 22, 2007 7:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you clearly

have no interaction or have never come up against addiction.

consider yourself lucky.

by knockoutking24 on Dec 22, 2007 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure I have

Not me personally but I know those that have. I imagine there are few people that don't at least know someone that has.

I didn't say it was easy to beat because it is a huge struggle every day but it can be beaten if the person has it in them to do something about it. Actual diseases can't.

Then of course there is the part where the person chose to get involved with drugs in the first place but that's a whole other discussion.

Oh Man!!!!

by SwiperNoSwiping on Dec 22, 2007 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

clearly

you havent.

and clearly you have no interaction with anyone who has had any major issues with addiction...either that or you just dont give a shit about them.

yes, as with 99% of the things we do are a choice.

by knockoutking24 on Dec 22, 2007 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You

really know nothing about addiction. You do realize that it's a chemical as well as physical change to your body right? It is literally impossible to stop without serious and drawn-out treatment. Addiction is something completely different than recreational use, and so your simplistic "just stop doing it" is really as repugnant as it is ignorant.

by brettgardner on Dec 22, 2007 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

¡Vámanos!

Oh Man!!!!

by SwiperNoSwiping on Dec 22, 2007 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn.

Tip of the cap to you.

by brettgardner on Dec 22, 2007 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're

A fucking moron. I don't care if this post gets deleted or my privileges get pulled since I called you that. You don't know a damn thing about a damn thing. Alcoholism (and other addictive traits) have genetic tendacies. It's not a choice; it's a struggle for some, others no struggle. Addictions are both physical and mental. That's no excuse for addicts, but it's a fact. That's why recovering addicts are always "addicts", because that's a part of them that never leaves. They have to deal with that everyday. The same way someone with MS or Parkinsons has to deal with it.

"When I was a pup, we got spanked by presidents 'til the cows came home! Grover Cleveland spanked me on two non-consecutive occasions!" LBrooks

by WyoRanger on Dec 22, 2007 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

its not his fault

there was a south park that dealt with how alcoholism shouldn't be treated like a disease because it makes it sound like the user has no control or culpability.
we all love south park!

anyway, its just semantics. weakness, disease - who cares. he's probably kicked the chemical dependency (since it's been like 2 years) but he still mentally probably has to try really hard not to use. it is what it is.

by ab03 on Dec 22, 2007 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I know you were using his arguments against him...

But Parkinson (at least) and MS are quite a bit different than drug addiction.

In the latter, there is at least SOME DECENT possibility of getting back to a place where you lead a normal life.

In Parkinson (I haven't dealt with MS so I don't know enough details), it's a slow deterioration where it takes significantly-risky medical procedures to even APPROACH a normal life.

In drug addiction, you are using the drug to reach a state of consciousness better than normal life (at least at the start). With Parkinson, you just degrade into a state in which your life eventually is a living nightmare.

With drug addiction, through proper support and a significant change in will-power and nature, you can beat it. With Parkinson's, there is no such thing.

Thankfully, there are treatments for both out there, though Parkinson doesn't currently have anything which will "cure" the afflicted.

Anyways, just thought you guys might like to know something more to depress you (as if being a Ranger's fan doesn't depress you enough).

Req

by Requiem on Dec 22, 2007 11:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Those 'evil' stem cells might help....

by tklawless on Dec 24, 2007 12:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

dude

that's pretty f-ed up right there...

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Dec 22, 2007 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

a decent risk

though I share your concern. Good defense and a strong lefty bat in CF is a bigtime plus in RBIA.

Tomorrow Never Knows

by t ball on Dec 21, 2007 8:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks J D for the wonderful ..

Christmas present ! He's exactly what we needed !

"Take this offer and shove it !!" Hunter,Gagne, Jones, Fuku

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 21, 2007 8:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

and that was even BEFORE...

I heard about the size 19 shoes :)

"Take this offer and shove it !!" Hunter,Gagne, Jones, Fuku

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 21, 2007 8:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he's gonna be a new fan favorite

with the ladies, for sure

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Dec 21, 2007 9:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah... it must be all those tattoos

on his arms.

How attractive!

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 9:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

slow down,

he's married. With a saint for a wife.

Tomorrow Never Knows

by t ball on Dec 21, 2007 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Anybody else...

Who does not care about his previous drug problems?

They dont worry me one bit. As long as he rakes I dont care.

Hell he could do drugs all he wants, as long as he continues to rake.

by SaltyGoesYard on Dec 21, 2007 9:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

somebody dial 911

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What was the nature..

of Hamilton's injury last year?

by TedFord on Dec 21, 2007 9:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

x

Wrist and also some immune system thing?

Can't wait for Brett Michael's Rock of Love II...

by miles on Dec 21, 2007 9:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yea

he had gastroenteritis

"Dwyade is to basketball what the 40 is to the Rangers." -thedirkatron

by coolaid on Dec 21, 2007 9:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and hamstring

by Brandon Wilson on Dec 21, 2007 9:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Baseball America's take

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/news/264581.html

[blockquote]There's plenty to like for the Rangers here. Texas turned a pitcher who has overstayed his welcome into a potential impact middle-of-the-order bat who fills one of their bigger needs.

For the Reds, it's a more risky move since they're gambling on being able to turn Volquez into a solid member of the big league rotation, something the Rangers failed to do in six years. But at the same time, in one year the Reds turned a $50,000 investment in Hamilton into a potential member of their starting rotation. By dealing away Hamilton, they trade away a rather injury-prone player from a position of strength to fill a clear need at another position.[/blockquote]

by Brandon Wilson on Dec 21, 2007 9:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That's such a dumb take on Volquez

He overstated his welcome, and we failed to turn him into a starter in six years.

Does Gerry Fraley work for BA now?

"God plays by his own rules, folks. And HGH is f***ing legal as hell up in heaven." -Andy Pettitte

by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2007 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

WTF

"Texas turned a pitcher who has overstayed his welcome"

Fuck off BA! I swear, I've got to where I can't stand BA anymore.

Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 21, 2007 10:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Talent wise, we win

Josh Hamilton is an elite talent, and I hope he can stay clean (for his sake as much as ours), cause if he can we win this deal hands down.

Hate to see Eddy go.

Good luck, brother.

"God plays by his own rules, folks. And HGH is f***ing legal as hell up in heaven." -Andy Pettitte

by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2007 10:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'm in favor of it

But I remain highly skeptical. And all these "just give him a chance" comments are a little bit much.

I'm skeptical, because, by his own account, he's already had 8 chances, or fresh starts, so to speak, in rehab. He's tried to kill himself 3-5 times.

I welled up a little when I read that espn testimonial. I really want him to succeed, because I already really, really like the guy, and he has 2 little kids depending on him, not to mention a wife that has probably given this dude many more chances than he had coming. Most of you that know me here know I'm the last person to get sanctimonious about a hedonistic lifestyle.

I'm pro-cocktail.

But he was a train wreck for 5 years; he's been clean for 2. I don't think it's any kind of dire prediction to be a little on the pessimistic side about him staying clean and sober. The sad fact of the matter is that the relapse rate in cases like his is well over 50%.

For that reason, I think this trade is a much bigger gamble than most people here evidently do. I also find the idea that the Reds were so quick to trade him after this breakout season, not to mention evidently caving on getting anything meaningful in addition to EV, is another red flag.

And then there's the injuries.

I emailed Evan a question about the consequences of further failed drug tests. Haven't heard back. The slacker. If he faces any kind of year-long or severe suspensions from 1 more failed test, I'd grade this trade a D.

Right now, I give it a B-, but I agree it was a gamble we definitely had to take.

Juan "Juevos" Daniels.

Not an ounce of fear in our man. That's something I'm unambivalently happy about it...

Why do you hate freedom?

by Brian Thomas on Dec 21, 2007 10:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ok, right after I badmouth Evan, I check the mail

I'll skip my question because I kiss his ass a little. I can't help it; I really like Evan. :)

"Brian:

Thanks again. The info you ask about is indeed pertinent and was the
first
thing I asked Daniels about when I got him aside after the press
conference.
There is no designated penalty for a fifth offense of the
recreational/street drug policy. It is at the commissioner's
discretion. I
am also told that Hamilton's willingness to be tested regularly and
cooperation with the program makes it more likely that the commish
would be
lenient if he had a relapse. At least the first time he had a relapse.

Thanks,
Evan

***

Well, that's certainly badass news.

Hip hip hoorah for the longevity of the Steve Howe Rule...

Why do you hate freedom?

by Brian Thomas on Dec 21, 2007 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"Juevos" Daniels

Like it.

If he doesn't get this organization turned around, it certainly won't be because he didn't have the stones to pull it off.

And I agree that there is plenty of risk with the clean and sober thing. But if he does make it, I think Hamilton will be right there behind Sizemore and Granderson in the AL centerfielder ranks. And the thought of a 900+ OPS CF with good range and a cannon arm patrolling center at the Ballpark has me a lot more excited than the thought of watching a young pitcher with 2 really good pitches and command problems break in.

I was discussing the Hamilton for Volquez + Teagarden scenario w/ Adam and others on the NMLR earlier today, and personally I would have done that deal if that is what it took.

LF platoon = Catalanatto and Byrd. CaTyrd for short?

by tricer on Dec 21, 2007 11:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

So...

Against Righties...

2B- Kinsler
SS- Young
CF- Hamilton
DH- Bradley
3B- Blalock
LF- Cat
1B- Broussard
CA- Salty
RF- Murphy

Against Lefties...

2B- Kinsler
SS- Young
CF- Hamilton
DH- Bradley
3B- Blalock
CA- Salty
1B- Shelton
RF- Byrd
LF- Murphy

Laird and Vazquez (or maybe Duran) are your other 2 position players. This pretty much means Botts and Cruz are gone, unless Bradley starts the year on the DL and the Rangers keep Botts. I believe Cruz is gone no matter what now.

I also believe the middle of the order is now Hamilton, Bradley, Blalock as long as Bradley is healthy. Wash may mess with Hamilton and Blalock against lefties but I would leave them there. This also means Ian should lead off imo against lefties and righties. I really like him ahead of MY and I also love MY in the 2 hole. Kinsler has enough talent that LHP or RHP should not matter.

Rotation...

Millwood
Padilla
McCarthy
Gabbard
FA

I think the 5th hole will be filled by a veteran FA pitcher. I think Hurley should spend some more time in AAA.

Pen...

BGL
Jack
Frankie
Littleton
Kazuo
Loe
Rheino/Guardado

BGL should close and Kam is your long man. I would give the loogy to Rheino but that could change if Eddie shows he is healthy and effective.

That is how I see things as of now. However we don't know if JD has anything left. Could he get another valuable player for Cruz/Botts/Byrd/Cat or just a minor leaguer? Who will the fifth starter be? I don't think many more moves will be made but hey remember when everyone was watching FA's sign left and right and some were bitching about JD not doing anything, can't sat that now.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 21, 2007 11:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

the lineup is looking ..

pretty good SLC... now time to work on the pitching..the starting staff is suspect at best.

"Take this offer and shove it !!" Hunter,Gagne, Jones, Fuku

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 21, 2007 11:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not that bad

I'm looking at Hamilton as a 25-30 homerun guy and that line-up is a lot less pathetic than it was before today. Decent even.

Also the opening on the starting staff gives us something to be interested in moving forward. Sign a vet? trade for guy you like? start Tejeda? accelerate Hurley's path to the pros? Lots of possible directions here.

by hubcityraider on Dec 22, 2007 1:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is JD fired if this deal

turns into another bad one??

I like the trade I do, but how quickly are we going to turn if Edinson sticks and Hamy's play sucks or he's injured?

Edinson is going to do great in the National League probably, we gotta start praying for Josh's sobriety every night right now.

Rudy Gay sure would look good in red and white...

by Jukebox Joe on Dec 21, 2007 11:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't like it.

I'd rather see the team stay the course with a starter until we know for sure. This team with "no offense" scored only 6 runs less than the Angels last year, but gave up 113 more runs.

The problem of a lacking starting rotation is far and above the problem of a lacking offense.

I'd rather see Volquez fail here and we know for sure than for Hamilton to go to two All-Star games.

by mattrpav on Dec 21, 2007 11:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Thats the one

and only thing I'm scared of too.

We didn't find out what we had in Edinson.

If he had come out and struggled again this upcoming season, then I'd be okay of course.

Rudy Gay sure would look good in red and white...

by Jukebox Joe on Dec 21, 2007 11:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

also

if he stays healthy, one of the biggest/best parts of the deal (if he or bradley are the #3 hitters) is that mike young gets bumped to the 2-hole, where he belongs...

by knockoutking24 on Dec 21, 2007 11:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't Volquez

One of those guys Adam menntioned in his infamous "2010" post, as a building block?

So, not even weeks later, one is gone, traded..

Global warming gets raped and left for dead-again

by Sharky on Dec 24, 2007 8:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, genius

and now he's been replaced by Hamilton, a pretty damn nice building block himself.

Tomorrow Never Knows

by t ball on Dec 24, 2007 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hamilton's under control for 5 years.

Through 2012.

by a bebop a rebop on Dec 24, 2007 11:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thats beastly.

"The only thing to be scared of is being scared itself." -Daxflame

by miles on Dec 24, 2007 11:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

I come back from Christmas and Edinson Volquez has been traded. That sucks. I like Hamilton, sure, but I was never down on Volquez like a lot of you were at one time...ever since I've seen him pitch I've known he's had something. The guy's going to have a lot of success in MLB.

Hamilton? I've followed his story like everyone else here. My concern is that heavy drug abuse wreaks havoc on the body. There's no question he has a lot of talent. If the trade were based purely on talent I'd call it a draw because Volquez, I believe, is underrated in that department.

I'm not in favor of this trade and am souring on Daniels. I realize they need a centerfielder, but with Young, Danks, and now Volquez gone they sure have given up a lot of high-upside pitchers. They apparently think they have more pitching depth than they actually do.

Ctrl - V

by Dustin on Dec 25, 2007 11:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs