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Around SBN: Kentucky Football: Tee Martin Reportedly Leaving for USC

Keith Law tallying HOF votes

Keith Law has tallied the ballots of 50 HOF voters who have posted their votes online, and he currently has only Goose Gossage cracking the 75% line, although Bert Blyleven, Andre Dawson, and Jim Rice are all around 70%.

Tim Raines, unfortunately, is at 50%...he's much more deserving than either Rice or Dawson...

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Why do you say
that Raines is "much more deserving" than Rice?
if you apologize for everything, you apologize for nothing...

by Longhorn on Dec 26, 2007 7:11 PM CST reply actions  

this is a good start...
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7007

Rice may have been more "feared", but Raines had a better peak and overall career.

by ksf42001 on Dec 26, 2007 7:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Raines
He was better offensively than Rice, and better defensively than Rice.  And he played for longer.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2007 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Raines v. Rice
 ask yourself this question. Which player would you build your team around?  Also Raines drug problems is something you wouldn't want to touch

by meatbonelefty on Dec 26, 2007 8:07 PM CST up reply actions  

easy...
second best leadoff hitter ever or very good (but much easier to replace) power hitter?

That's not even taking the wide difference in defense into account.

by ksf42001 on Dec 26, 2007 9:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Raines
Why would I not want to touch his drug problem? To the extent that he had a cocaine problem, he evidently kicked it fairly early in his career (after his age 22 season in 1982 if his own account/admissions are to be believed). That 82 season was the worst of his career, and it was still pretty good. After that, he was arguably the most valuable player in the NL for the remainder of the decade and his peak period years - 85, 86, and 87 - were all MVP caliber.

I'm not sure if Raines' admitted cocaine problem is causing some voters not to vote for him. I hope not. Molitor's similar cocaine admissions didn't stop anyone from voting him in. Raines was a better player than Molitor - he just didn't hang around long enough as a DH at the end of his career to accumulate the same counting totals.  

by Brian Hayes on Dec 27, 2007 9:31 AM CST up reply actions  

actually
that 1982 season was probably the 2nd worst of Raines' career. His first season with the ChiSox (1991) was worse.

by Brian Hayes on Dec 27, 2007 9:33 AM CST up reply actions  

This all
seems like a foreign language to me...
Obama, stop making a fool of youself...http://youtube.com/watch?v=4cjtRgnj7pA

by miles on Dec 26, 2007 9:39 PM CST reply actions  

I can speak four languages fluently
Spanish, Portuguese, French, and German
Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 26, 2007 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

What about
English?  Oh wait ....   :P
'At Georgia Southern, we don't cheat. That costs money and we don't have any.' Erk Russell / Georgia Southern

by Ed Coffin on Dec 26, 2007 10:20 PM CST up reply actions  

ha
ok.. five
Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 26, 2007 10:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Blyleven
Hope he gets in.
'At Georgia Southern, we don't cheat. That costs money and we don't have any.' Erk Russell / Georgia Southern

by Ed Coffin on Dec 26, 2007 9:50 PM CST reply actions  

beavan
hope he gets in, lol

by j d on Dec 26, 2007 10:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Blake???
I'll stick with Kasey Kiker first :)
Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 26, 2007 10:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Michael Main...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZCCN5QBX0o0

by miles on Dec 26, 2007 10:55 PM CST up reply actions  

ha... close call
Main is going to be really good. But Kiker is the front runner right now as far as the two
Merry Christmas

by hurlerhurley on Dec 26, 2007 11:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I typically...
...abhor Chris Berman.  But his nick for BB was awesome.

Bert "Be Home" Blyleven

by RangerMoto on Dec 27, 2007 12:13 AM CST up reply actions  

How can you abhor Chris Berman?
He is ESPN, and ESPN is sports.

Eric "Sleeping With" Bieniemy?

You're damn right.

"God plays by his own rules, folks. And HGH is f***ing legal as hell up in heaven." -Andy Pettitte

by thedirkatron on Dec 27, 2007 2:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Mike "Your in good hands with" Allstott
Bill Paxton is the one who looks like he's dumb, but sounds smart, while Bill Pullman is the one who looks like he's smart, but sounds dumb.

by Jukebox Joe on Dec 27, 2007 2:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Royce-a-Roni
Clayton
Tomorrow Never Knows

by t ball on Dec 27, 2007 6:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Agree
He kills me with all his nicknames but every once in a while he strikes gold

by 1man5tools @ Lone Star Ball on Dec 27, 2007 8:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Raines vs Rice
Let me think of Shakespeare's drama: To be, or not to be: that is the question.

by wekybnmv on Dec 27, 2007 1:40 AM CST reply actions  

Hall of Fame
The only ones I would vote for are Blyleven, Gossage and McGwire.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 7:40 AM CST reply actions  

Oh if I had a ballot...
I'd vote these in for sure
Blyleven - He's an absolute no-brainer.  Top five all-time in K's, top 10 in shutouts, 3.31 career ERA.  Easily one of the best pitchers of his day and one of the top 50 all-time.  He's simply hurt by one stat, wins (even though he's 26th all-time), which would have been more with average run support, and had little to do with how well he pitched.

Raines - He's another pretty strong candidate.  In 23 seasons he had a total of 2 full seasons where his OPS+ was below average.  He was an unbelievably skilled player who at one time or another in his career led the league in batting average, on base percentage, doubles, stolen bases, runs and runs created.  No, he never hit 20 home runs and he ended his career shy of the 3000 hit mark, yet I'm pretty confident that if the prime of his career would have been in Boston, Chicago or New York that he would be a first ballot hall of famer without question.

McGwire - He was no doubt using performance enhancers, but many of his drugs were both legal and accepted by MLB at the time.  Furthermore, let's not force him to go through a filtering process that we haven't used for past HOFers (and believe me, there are already many PED users in the hall).  The guy put up a career 162 OPS+, with a career .394 OBP.  Usually near the top of the league in runs, runs created, home runs and just about anything else that has the word "run" in it, I think McGwire should be in the hall.

The Rest
Gossage - I'd probably vote for him on a good day if I were in a good mood, but it would be a close call.  It's hard to vote for a reliever, but considering how unhittable he was from 1975-1985, I'd consider voting for him.  Really, still not absolutely convinced that he belongs though.

Dawson - I realize that he was an extremely popular player, but that's not a reason to win a vote.  He just isn't hall of fame quality in my opinion.  He was slightly above average offensively, and above average defensively.  Was he great in either category?  No.  Did he have a period in his career when he was great in either category?  Not really.  Does that combination of above average skills make him a good player?  Most definitely.  Does it make him a hall of famer?  No.  Just for fun, do a comparison of his 1987 MVP season with Tim Raines 1987 season and tell me if you think Dawson deserved the MVP simply because his team was better.

Rice
When I look at Rice's career I see four very good years (1977-1979 and 1986), but the rest of his career is average or slightly above average for a DH/OF guy.  The fact of the matter is that there are already nine LFers in the hall of fame (Musial, Kiner, Stargell, Williams, et. al.), and Rice doesn't come close to their level IMO.  This is a guy who was great at Fenway, and terrible elsewhere.  As a left fielder he only had a .789 career OPS on the road.  That's not a good stat, and definitely not HoF worthy.

Tommy John is an interesting case, and I've heard the ridiculous arguments that Morris should be in the hall, but outside of the ones I've already mentioned, nobody else even comes close to getting my vote.

by rangeressary on Dec 27, 2007 8:52 AM CST reply actions  

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