Thursday morning things

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 27, 2007 10:15 AM CST in News

Another day with little Rangers-related out there...

Richard Durrett has a proposed lineup up, which has Marlon Byrd in right field (until Milton Bradley is ready) and Jason Botts nowhere to be seen...

There are a couple of comments clamoring for David Murphy to be playing left field instead of Frank Catalanotto.

Marlon Byrd isn't going to hit well enough to play a COF slot regularly. He's a 4th outfielder.

David Murphy is unlikely to hit well enough to play left field regularly. He's probably a 4th outfielder, although he may progress enough with the bat to be a less than terrible option in a COF slot.

Given where this team is right now, I wouldn't be surprised if Frank Catalanotto is being shopped...his contract is very reasonable, and he's a nice role player for a good team. He just isn't a real good fit for the Rangers at this point.

If you could get a decent return for Cat, you could go with a Murphy/Byrd platoon in RF and Botts in LF until Bradley is ready, then move Botts to DH, Bradley to RF and the Murphy/Byrd platoon to LF.

That seems like a decent alignment, to me.

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Comments

Scouting report on Botts

What is in the scouting report on Botts these days?

by mattrpav on Dec 27, 2007 10:13 AM CST reply actions

Patient

maybe a little TOO patient

by SteveP on Dec 27, 2007 11:26 AM CST up reply actions

after watching him last season

He has a very good knowledge of the strike zone and will avoid swinging at balls most of the time. The problem is that he can't really do much with pitches that are in the strike zone. Inside fastballs look like they eat him up. A lot of times he sees several pitches in an at bat only because he is swinging and missing or fouling off pitches that are pretty fat. I guess there is some value in seeing a lot of pitches per at bat, but the bottom line is that you have to be able to square up some of the strikes and do something with them. It doesn't look like Botts will be able to do that often enough IMO.

Juevos Daniels: biggest stones in the business.

by tricer on Dec 27, 2007 12:16 PM CST up reply actions

He sucks

DFA his ass all ready.

Red Sux Nation is an evil organization.

by BillyBobisdrunk on Dec 27, 2007 1:37 PM CST up reply actions

+ 1

Josh Hamilton will become a superstar right before your eyes!

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 27, 2007 1:43 PM CST up reply actions

Trade him....

for Santana. Anyone would give up their farm system for Babe Ruth Botts.

by Redcaps on Dec 28, 2007 9:15 AM CST up reply actions

He is a

AAAA type of player currently occupying a roster spot until the Rangers find someone better.

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws. ~Rick Wise, 1974

by RangerMad on Dec 27, 2007 10:20 AM CST reply actions

+ 1

Of course Durrett does not have Botts in his line up. He thinks he sucks. It was just several weeks ago that Durrett said "Jason Botts cannot hit righthanders (208 in 125 at bats) I'm begginning to wonder if he'll ever be able to hit righthanders". I'm glad Durrett, Wash and J.D. get it. I have a feeling he will soon be DFA'd.
Last thing we need is someone who strikes out 35% of the time. Let's unload the "dead weight" and get it over with !

Josh Hamilton will become a superstar right before your eyes!

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 27, 2007 1:05 PM CST up reply actions

Let Murph play center

Have Hamilton play LF to make sure he stays healthy. Botts era will soon be over!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Red Sux Nation is an evil organization.

by BillyBobisdrunk on Dec 27, 2007 1:38 PM CST up reply actions

brilliant ..

Billy Bob absolutely brilliant !

Josh Hamilton will become a superstar right before your eyes!

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 27, 2007 1:53 PM CST up reply actions

You two need to get a room

Again.

"When I was a pup, we got spanked by presidents 'til the cows came home! Grover Cleveland spanked me on two non-consecutive occasions!" LBrooks

by WyoRanger on Dec 27, 2007 4:47 PM CST up reply actions

Botts

I think it is time to come to grips with the fact that the braintrust views him as AAAA. And, let's be honest, his two month audition did nothing to dispell that.

Fire Ron Washington

by pblack on Dec 27, 2007 10:21 AM CST reply actions

Botts

while i agree it's looking more and more like he is a AAAA player, I just don't see the harm in giving him a longer look than a few months

Can you please Look into getting a less funny signature? That's sarcasm, btw. - Sharky

by rentz on Dec 27, 2007 10:22 AM CST up reply actions

I agree

I mean, what's the harm? There's some evidence Botts is an AAAA type guy, but if 2008 is a rebuilding year, there's no reason not to give him AB's. It's not uncommon for three outcome minor league bashers to emerge a bit late -- Jack Cust is the most recent example.

Eh.

by SteveOla @ Lone Star Ball on Dec 27, 2007 11:56 AM CST up reply actions

lineup

I like your lineup scenario much better adam. It lets the rangers evaluate some guys to see what they actually have, and if it turns out they've got nothing then there wasn't much lost because realistically this team isn't competing to win the west it's competing to come in 2nd or 3rd.

As much as I like Cat, I never really got behind the signing of him and the draft pick they lost (though I understood the point of signing him)

Right now cat just seems like the odd man out, he isn't really an outfielder any more so than botts, but he's older and more expensive.

Can you please Look into getting a less funny signature? That's sarcasm, btw. - Sharky

by rentz on Dec 27, 2007 10:21 AM CST reply actions

Disagree

"he isn't really an outfielder any more so than botts"

Id take his(Cat) OBP and average and somewhat decent skills in left field over botts any day. And yeah, cat isn't a natural outfielder but a better one then botts could ever be.

""I love GOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLD" blueglovelefty

by NYTXFAN on Dec 27, 2007 11:14 AM CST up reply actions

outfield

from what i've seen of botts in LF his main problem was poor reads (which could come from his limited outfield career).
Cat's problem is he just doesn't have the speed or arm, I believe botts can learn to get better reads and take more efficient jumps on the ball but you can't teach athleticism.

All that said, I'll say that neither of them is an outfielder and on a good team neither one of them would ever see the field.

Can you please Look into getting a less funny signature? That's sarcasm, btw. - Sharky

by rentz on Dec 27, 2007 11:22 AM CST up reply actions

I agree with this:

" on a good team neither one of them would ever see the field."

Dont agree with this: "he just doesn't have the speed". Cats much faster then Botts and probably Byrd. He cant handle left field but yeah, he doesnt have an arm. He's probably a lot faster then the normal left fielders in the league.

""I love GOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLD" blueglovelefty

by NYTXFAN on Dec 27, 2007 11:27 AM CST up reply actions

speed

i just don't see cat's speed.
and botts has always been one of the fastest players on the teams in the minors when they did 60yrd dashes

Can you please Look into getting a less funny signature? That's sarcasm, btw. - Sharky

by rentz on Dec 27, 2007 11:33 AM CST up reply actions

Really?

"botts has always been one of the fastest players on the teams in the minors when they did 60yrd dashes"

I never Knew that. I always figured him to be a slower more HR type guy then a speedster HR type guy.

I will say I'm not against Botts and his abilities. I just feel Cat is a better option for us.

""I love GOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLD" blueglovelefty

by NYTXFAN on Dec 27, 2007 11:35 AM CST up reply actions

botts

someone said it on here before, it was either bev or cj that said he always won the teams fastest man award in okc. the guy's deceptively fast it just doesnt usually look that way because of how massive he is. He really appears to be a good athlete (just doesnt make him a good fielder)

Can you please Look into getting a less funny signature? That's sarcasm, btw. - Sharky

by rentz on Dec 27, 2007 11:37 AM CST up reply actions

Here's the prob lem...

an outfielder rarely runs 60 yards to catch a fly ball. Seriously, though, Botts may build up speed as he runs rather than having quick acceleration.

by Redcaps on Dec 27, 2007 11:46 AM CST up reply actions

He's very similar to Dunn

In more ways than the walks and the physical build. Both of them are deceptively fast.

Hop on the bandwagon while It's still fashionable: Rickey Henderson for Centerfield in '08!

by BudLight on Dec 27, 2007 11:57 AM CST up reply actions

+ 1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Josh Hamilton will become a superstar right before your eyes!

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 27, 2007 1:06 PM CST up reply actions

Cat

I'm kind of against trading him but if we could get something useful then go for it. What could we get?

by meatbonelefty on Dec 27, 2007 10:23 AM CST reply actions

a big...

bucket of sunflower seeds for Wash.

by TheBZA on Dec 27, 2007 10:26 AM CST up reply actions

Selling low

Why would you sell so low on Cat? Obviously he had an uptick towards the end of 2007, but his overall numbers are pretty dismal and would be hard for a GM to overlook.

But if Daniels can pull his stat magic wool over the eyes of a Krivsky or Williams, then by all means.

Vista named PC World's biggest tech disappointment of 2007

by RangerMoto on Dec 27, 2007 10:28 AM CST reply actions

Selling low on a platoon player?

There isn't much range in value there anyway.

by mattrpav on Dec 27, 2007 10:30 AM CST up reply actions

Cruz

Do you not see Cruz coming out of spring training? It's hard for me to get a read on who the rangers want out there, wouldn't we rather have Cruz, Botts, and Murphy sinking or swiming, or do they want Cat and Byrd out there. Cat is what he is, and I think Byrd has shown that he is Mediocre at best (but I think Wash really likes him).

by 1man5tools @ Lone Star Ball on Dec 27, 2007 10:30 AM CST reply actions

Byrd may well have been the team MVP

last year....when all is said & done, it'll be Bradley in RF, Hamilton in CF and Byrd in LF, with Murphy the 4th OFer....Cat probably DH when (if) everyone's healthy..... Botts (& Cruz?) are probably done.

by tklawless on Dec 28, 2007 12:24 PM CST up reply actions

I see...

Murphy in AAA to start the season because he has options...that will be a huge factor.

I still think that we will have to make a decision between Botts and Cruz for the opening 25 man.

by clinton33 on Dec 27, 2007 10:39 AM CST reply actions

Cat isn't being shopped. Botts is.

No one's buying, though, because whoever is interested in him knows he'll be DFA'd soon and the demand for him is low.

No amount of LSB/Newberg love can save Botts.

Colbert/Colbert '08

by rooster on Dec 27, 2007 10:54 AM CST reply actions

Cat

should be shopped. I like the guy, but what role does he play on this team? I imagine all the guys on the bubble are being shopped - Botts, Tejada, Cruz, etc. Doubt there would be any takers.

by JB @ Lone Star Ball on Dec 27, 2007 11:05 AM CST up reply actions

JB no won should be on the bubble,

This is their final adution to make a great 09 team, imo.

""I love GOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLD" blueglovelefty

by NYTXFAN on Dec 27, 2007 11:09 AM CST up reply actions

Botts, etc.

I given up on Botts getting any real chance with Texas. It's not going to happen. Daniels simply doesn't like him, for some reason, which was one of my major complaints about Daniels last season.

At this point, since Botts isn't going to be on the team, I would like to see them pursue someone like Matt Murton. The Cubs need a catcher and supposedly have had interest in Laird in the past, and Murton doesn't have a place to play in Chicago. You could stick him in RF, with Hamilton in CF, a Catalanotto/Byrd platoon in LF, and Bradley at DH, with Shelton, and a backup infielder and catcher filling out the bench.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 10:58 AM CST reply actions

Agree...

Botts is the odd man out. At least give the dude a shot. Isn't that what this year is about? Regarding the Cubs / Laird rumors, I think the Cubbies plan to go into the year withGeovany Soto as their everyday backstop. Not a lot of ML experience, but he put up good #'s in AAA.

Side note - Bottsie is batting 335/.425/.513. in the Mexican League.

by JB @ Lone Star Ball on Dec 27, 2007 11:10 AM CST up reply actions

Soto

Yeah, I think that's right, but they could still use a better option than Henry Blanco to share time with him. If they expect to contend, I'm not sure they really want to go into the season needing a rookie to catch 140 games for them.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 11:16 AM CST up reply actions

re: Daniels not liking Botts

I think a much more likely detractor-in-chief would be Rudy.

Why do you hate freedom?

by Brian Thomas on Dec 27, 2007 4:44 PM CST up reply actions

Maybe because he's a 1 trick pony....

who hasn't even been able to master that 1 trick....hitting! Outside of minors & mexican leagues, he hasn't shown much power and still strikes out way too much.

by tklawless on Dec 28, 2007 12:29 PM CST up reply actions

Adam

"He just isn't a real good fit for the Rangers at this point."

Agreed, however, in two years he could prove to be a valuable asset seeing how versitle he is. He could spell three different potions and does pretty good doing it. Id take his stats and presence any day in a reserve/4of/platoon/doesitall/evencatcher form. Does he play an important part right now? Probably not if we are trying to see "what we have" in the likes of Cruz, Byrd, Botts, and so on. Speaking of Cruz, I think his strong Spring Training showing earns him the right field job until bradley comes around. Then he earns the fourth outfield job that belonged to the Murph/Byrd platoon.

""I love GOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLD" blueglovelefty

by NYTXFAN on Dec 27, 2007 11:05 AM CST reply actions

Cat

In two years, he won't be here, unless the Rangers excise a $5 million option for 2010, which seems a little pricey to me for the role you describe.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 11:10 AM CST up reply actions

He's got a $2 million buyout

His deal works out to either 3 years, $13.5 million, or 4 years, $16.5 million, depending on whether the option is exercised.

Unless he's toast by then, the option will probably be exercised.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 27, 2007 11:13 AM CST up reply actions

Agreed,

Cats option should be picked up for anyrole he ends up playing on this team. I believe Ramon Vazquez makes around 810,000. So for 2.2 mil more you get a role player who can do it all, and do it while putting up better then mediocre numbers. Anyway, if we are trying to compete in 09-10 then Cats small 3 mil option isnt terrible to have on a young team.

""I love GOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLD" blueglovelefty

by NYTXFAN on Dec 27, 2007 11:20 AM CST up reply actions

He can't do it all

So for 2.2 mil more you get a role player who can do it all,

No, he can't do it all.

He can play left field or first base, and he can hit righties.

That's it.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 27, 2007 11:25 AM CST up reply actions

If I'm not mistaken

He came up as a SS or 2nd basman. He might not have been good so thats why they moved him to left to begin with, but still could make emergency starts there. I also read he was a catcher at one point(maybe high school or something). Add first and DH to that and you got a guy who does more then Botts, Murphy, Byrd, and Cruz. However, Byrd and Murph might be more valuable now because they can play all three outfield spots.

""I love GOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLD" blueglovelefty

by NYTXFAN on Dec 27, 2007 11:30 AM CST up reply actions

No

He came up as a second baseman, but was not good defensively. He hasn't played there since 2002. He isn't going to start playing second base again now.

And he'd be worse at shortstop or third than at second base, because he doesn't have the arm to play there.

He's not going to catch. Even if he caught in high school (which I don't know to be the case), he's not going to start catching again in the majors at the age of 34.

Byrd and Murphy can play all three outfield spots, and are pretty good defensive options in the corners. Cruz can play either of the COF spots, and is a good defensive COF.

Cat is limited to first base and left field, and he's not real good defensively at either position. He's not going to play anywhere else.

His value is that he's a good hitter against righthanders.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 27, 2007 11:38 AM CST up reply actions

Way to go AJM

You just keep driving up Cat's value.

"When I was a pup, we got spanked by presidents 'til the cows came home! Grover Cleveland spanked me on two non-consecutive occasions!" LBrooks

by WyoRanger on Dec 27, 2007 11:43 AM CST up reply actions

Cat

He was a second baseman. A bad second baseman.

He hasn't played there since 2002.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 11:39 AM CST up reply actions

Well....

This isn't the best example, but $3 million was the difference between Kenny Rogers and Randy Wolf this offseaon, my point being that I would prefer to spend the budget on better players in key positions than on backup outfielders. Fill the bench with guys like Chris Shelton, and invest your budget in guys who are going to play every day or take the ball every fifth day.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 11:28 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah maybe this year,

but when his option comes up, he is gonna be more important then Shelton or guys like him. Cats presence as a cheap veteran and his ability to go out and play left or first whenever he has to is more important then a shelton type that can only play one position.

""I love GOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLD" blueglovelefty

by NYTXFAN on Dec 27, 2007 11:33 AM CST up reply actions

So you are saying....

that if the Rangers were expected to contend this year, you would rather have, for example, a combination of Catalanotto as a utility guy and someone like Randy Wolf in the rotation, rather than someone like Kenny Rogers in the rotation with a David Murphy type as the backup OF?

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 11:37 AM CST up reply actions

What?

Yeah add take Cat as a LF/1b/DH for 3 mil. Im not saying that I dont want to see any of those guys(Murph, Byrd, Botts) getting a chance because this is the year to find out if they can cut it. But look beyond that and say that if it was 09-10 and everyone finished with the same stats or close to them as they did this year, then yes, give me cat over all of them, imo.

""I love GOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLD" blueglovelefty

by NYTXFAN on Dec 27, 2007 11:58 AM CST up reply actions

have we come so far

that now we can just write off Byrd, Murphy, Cruz and Botts? are we now able to say a 34 year old who sucked assssss last year starting off is going to be more valuable than seeing if those guys can build on whatever success they have had??

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Dec 27, 2007 7:59 PM CST up reply actions

I'm sure JD is willing to deal any of

Botts, Cruz, Cat, Murphy, Byrd, Shelton, and Broussard. None of them are talented enough to have a spot set in stone. JDs actions, however, suggest to me that he's not going to trade someone just to trade someone. He did that with Castro. I don't think we'll see him in that position ever again.

There really isn't a compelling argument to trade Cat to make space for Botts. Botts is less versatile than Cat, and Botts is no guarantee to have a higher OPS this year or the remainder of Cat's contract.

Cat probably can nab something of more value, but he has to be traded at the right time, when someone has an immediate need, to really get an interesting prospect. If it's not the right time, JD isn't going to move him.

However, we all know a move has to happen soon. I think it's most likely that either Botts or Cruz will be DFA'd. I hope JD can get a Haigwood for one of those guys, I just don't see very many folks looking to go cheap on a young, possibly AAAA DH, including the Rangers. At most, the market is the Royals, Rays, and Twins.

I'm certain Cat would be of high interest to those teams but probably not to the point of a B-level or 3-star prospect at this point. They all have young guys they can plug into the DH role to see what might happen.

Colbert/Colbert '08

by rooster on Dec 27, 2007 12:38 PM CST up reply actions

JD

I think he'd deal his mother if the return was right.

Cranberry Sauce

by t ball on Dec 27, 2007 2:01 PM CST up reply actions

Option year

Understood on the option, but I still don't think you pay $3 million for a backup OF.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 11:17 AM CST reply actions

40f/reserve/emergency ss/2nd/

catcher. I mean he can do so much that you could find a spot for him.

""I love GOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLD" blueglovelefty

by NYTXFAN on Dec 27, 2007 11:24 AM CST up reply actions

Cat

He hasn't played a game at second base since 2002, though he did spend several years there. He's never played a major-league game at short or catcher.

Even if he caught a little in high school, that doesn't mean it's part of his skill set now. Mike Lamb caught some in college, which is why the Rangers tried him back there- remember how poorly that worked out?

If there's anyone on the roster that could be used as an emergency catcher, it would probably be Chris Shelton, since he's actually played there as recently as 2004.

"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on Dec 27, 2007 11:40 AM CST up reply actions

Shelton

Yeah, his ability to be a third catcher increases his value, particularly if there's some chance that Salty may DH some this year assuming Laird is still around.

That said, I've got some concern he's going to get caught in a roster squeeze before it's all over as well, which would be a shame, since I think he's a better player than Broussard.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 11:45 AM CST up reply actions

I agree ... Cat should be shopped

JD has done a fine job of building up depth of young talented players by trading away quality players. It is time for him to stay the course and get what he can for Cat and let the kids play. If JD's plan is going to work Cruz must get as much of a chance as possible. IMO make him room with Jaramillo if that is what it takes for him to hit the breaking ball! Botts is in the same boat. He deserves every opportunity to earn the DH spot. If all goes perfect we have an OF of Cruz, Hamilton and Murphy with Byrd as the 4th OF in 09. Botts solidifies the DH spot and the rotation develops with experience.
To DFA Botts is to say all his time in our system was a failure. If Cruz is odd man out we have nothing from the Brewer trade to add to the Nationals and Padres trades already on the books as mistakes.
Now is the time for JD to stick to the plan and make the tough decision on Cat. Someone must want a career .299 hitter vs RHP that can play multiple positions. Get what you can before the clock runs out on the 40 man roster.

by Bigfan16 on Dec 27, 2007 11:44 AM CST reply actions

2009 Outfield

I would much prefer to see Bradley in RF next year over Cruz.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 11:47 AM CST up reply actions

Right now I agree but

in my perfect world...Cruz plays so well that we flip Bradley at the dealine for more youth.

Like I said in my perfect world.

by Bigfan16 on Dec 27, 2007 11:52 AM CST up reply actions

Then hope for...

...a crappy 2008 for Milton.

Vista named PC World's biggest tech disappointment of 2007

by RangerMoto on Dec 27, 2007 11:53 AM CST up reply actions

Why?

Are you assuming that we are completely incapable of re-signing any free agent we have?

I would prefer, given Bradley's age, to see him have a nice season, like it here (particularly given his prior relationship with Washington), and sign something like a 3-year deal next offseason.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 11:59 AM CST up reply actions

Not assuming

Just looking at history does not bode well for the Rangers signing top FA talent.

by Bigfan16 on Dec 27, 2007 12:05 PM CST up reply actions

Can't I have both?

A break through year for Cruz and a solid year for Bradley? After all we are talking about my perfect world right ;)

by Bigfan16 on Dec 27, 2007 11:59 AM CST up reply actions

prospects?

Are Botts and Cruz still prospects?

Anyone realize that Sheldon is the same age as both of these guys?

by clinton33 on Dec 27, 2007 11:45 AM CST reply actions

sorry I ment Shelton....big difference...lol

by clinton33 on Dec 27, 2007 11:47 AM CST up reply actions

Scott Sheldon = beast.

Eh.

by SteveOla @ Lone Star Ball on Dec 27, 2007 11:54 AM CST up reply actions

Shelton, Cruz, Botts, Broussard,

I see a pattern here. JD has acquired several young talented players who have yet to break through or never will. Given the team's make-up for 08 I would rather trade away Cat (who has some value) than back away from the plan JD has laid out over the past 2 years.
Heck even Hamilton could be added to that list except he had a VG season with the Reds.

by Bigfan16 on Dec 27, 2007 11:58 AM CST up reply actions

Broussard

I don't see how he fits the defition of "young talented player who has yet to break through".

He's more of a "we need a one year stopgap who won't cost much" player.

He's just not good, and a waste of a roster and lineup spot.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 12:01 PM CST up reply actions

I thought that was Shelton?

Broussard had quite a bit of talent with Cincy and Cleveland before Seattle happened. His swing could fit in nicely in TBiA. If not we look again for a 1B next year.

You do make my point though. JD has done a good job acquiring "marginal" players with talent. His challenge now is there is only 40 spots on the roster and the clock is ticking on the contract approval for Fuki.

by Bigfan16 on Dec 27, 2007 12:12 PM CST up reply actions

Broussard

He's a 31-year old first baseman with a career EqA of .266. That's not good, and, at that age, it's not likely to get better. And he's been horrible the past two years.

I'm not sure how I "made your point". Broussard is a waste of a roster spot, Shelton is a cheap utility guy, it was rather predictable that Cruz wouldn't be able to hit, and Daniels didn't acquire Botts, he inherited (and then buried) him.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 12:35 PM CST up reply actions

fwiw...

Broussard was pretty good pre-trade in 2006...he was just awful in Seattle...

And from what I understand, he was hurt much of last year, which impacted his performance...

I'm not sold on Broussard, but he had a 117 OPS+ in the first half of last year, before the injury really started hampering him.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 27, 2007 12:43 PM CST up reply actions

Yes, but

Is he really any better than Chris Shelton?

And is he really worth pushing Jason Botts off the roster for?

And couldn't the $5 million he'll make this year be better spent on a 5th starting pitcher or to take back a bad salary in another deal?

by Darrell McKown on Dec 27, 2007 1:45 PM CST up reply actions

+1

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Dec 27, 2007 11:10 PM CST up reply actions

My point is that

the roster only has 40 available spots. JD has made numerous deals that by themselves are fine. However, when made together fail to make sense or at the very least create the current problem (not enough roster room.)
Both Shelton and Broussard individually are fine moves but put them together and you are left with the question why both? Same with the OF (Cruz, Byrd, Murphy, Hamilton, Bradley) each are fine at the time individually but we are left with too many players for the roster.
You, like everyone, are entitled to your opinion about Broussard. Just as others could say the same thing about any of the players up for being moved or DFA'd. Personally I like Broussard more than Shelton but probably would have tried Cat at 1B. I would not go as far as to say that any of them are a "waste of a roster spot" but I am not saying you are wrong either.
JD has done a fine job acquiring marginal younger(ish) players with significant talent but now has to make a move and lose someone. I vote for Cat because that would show he is sticking with his plans.

by Bigfan16 on Dec 27, 2007 1:30 PM CST up reply actions

Ben Broussard

is going to be JD's David Ortiz.

i hope.

if you apologize for everything, you apologize for nothing...

by Longhorn on Dec 27, 2007 1:49 PM CST reply actions

haha

by a bebop a rebop on Dec 27, 2007 2:10 PM CST up reply actions

or maybe his...

Travis Hafner :)

by HaegerChamp on Dec 27, 2007 2:24 PM CST up reply actions

Agree with your alignment, Adam

Cat just isn't a fit, especially at the expense of guys who still need a look (although Botts obviously won't be getting one here, anyway).

Botts in LF isn't an issue. Hamilton in CF and the RF platoon will both be well above average defensively to compensate for him. If that's where he needs to be to get AB's, so be it.

He couldn't do any worse than Cat.

"Why am I the only guy who's got bio information on here? I mean shit where do you guys work anyway?" - BGL

by inactive lsb user on Dec 27, 2007 2:52 PM CST reply actions

And this is why I objected to signing Cat.....

and giving up your 1st round draft pick.....

Now we're looking to shop SOME outfielder, and we gave up our rights for the highest possible draft pick to lose for this glut (which we COULD have picked up a Porcello with).

For a Vladimir Guerrero-type, sure give up the 16th pick in the draft.

For a Johan Santana-type, fork it over.

For a 33-year-old platoon OF who is AT BEST above-average, it's not worth it.

That lack of foresight combined with the lack of willingness to give Botts time is a thing which I'm not too happy with JD about.

Req

by Requiem on Dec 27, 2007 3:18 PM CST reply actions

Meno has always claimed ...

... it doesn't matter because in trading Cat we'll get back similar value to the lost pick. If Cat is about to get dealt I guess we'll find out if he's right.

Pages and Pages of Great Pics

by shroomer on Dec 27, 2007 3:29 PM CST up reply actions

And.....

I believe Meno also claimed that Cat should have been the 2B over Young back in the day...

by Topgun22 on Dec 27, 2007 3:56 PM CST up reply actions

Plus

At the time of Cat's signing, it seemed about a 80-90% certainty that we'd sign another type A FA who was worth losing a first rounder.

If we had lost a 2nd rounder for Cat, I don't think anyone would be disaapointed, especially considering the comp picks we had last year.

JD gambled and lost on that one.

Why do you hate freedom?

by Brian Thomas on Dec 27, 2007 4:42 PM CST up reply actions

I would guess there more folks down on Botts than

just Rudy. JD has really beefed up the pro scouting since the Young/AGone trade. I think I recall a couple more scouts being added this offseason.

Colbert/Colbert '08

by rooster on Dec 27, 2007 5:16 PM CST up reply actions

Well considering that the only real type A FA

who we were after would have been Zito or Schmidt, I'd say he "won" on that one.

But that's the problem, I DIDN'T think there was a 80-90% certainty we'd sign another type A FA (and I wasn't really sure there was one that I REALLY wanted aside from Pettitte or Clemens - I did like the Schmidt deal but only if he was healthy, which it turns out he wasn't).

And I don't really think that the "20% at most" happened.

Req

by Requiem on Dec 27, 2007 5:36 PM CST up reply actions

I don't disagree

Especially about Schmidt.

You could maybe throw Bonds in to the mix. Not sure how early Hicks put the kibosh on that one. And they also really wanted Matsusaka. You weren't interested in him?

Daniels, like many of us, thought he could possibly land Zito for something like 5/80. Does that seem kind of ridiculous for a #3?

Yes, but that's how it is today. Obviously, like you said, that was a lucky loss, although I think most people believe Sabean could have had him for 30 million less.

Why do you hate freedom?

by Brian Thomas on Dec 27, 2007 7:03 PM CST up reply actions

Matsuzaka

would not have cost a compensation draft pick.

Juevos Daniels: biggest stones in the business.

by tricer on Dec 27, 2007 7:35 PM CST up reply actions

Meh.

Dammit. I knew that.

Stupid brain...

Why do you hate freedom?

by Brian Thomas on Dec 28, 2007 8:19 AM CST up reply actions

Zito

Not worth it, IMO. Especially at the time, since that was basically #1 starter money.

Bonds likely would not be offered arbitration.

As tricer said, Matsuzaka would not have required draft-pick compensation.

Req

by Requiem on Dec 27, 2007 9:44 PM CST up reply actions

Well, maybe not Porcello, but maybe

Alderson, Withrow, or Revere. Maybe Noonan. I've always wondered if the Rangers had someone on the list higher than Main that went ahead of Main. It would be interesting to find out.

Colbert/Colbert '08

by rooster on Dec 27, 2007 4:18 PM CST up reply actions

oh man

there would have been some pissed off people around here if we chose Revere in the first round...

if you apologize for everything, you apologize for nothing...

by Longhorn on Dec 27, 2007 6:50 PM CST up reply actions

oh

I believe the Rangers had Winthrow ahead of Main...

if you apologize for everything, you apologize for nothing...

by Longhorn on Dec 27, 2007 6:52 PM CST up reply actions

or Smoker

another high upside young lefty would have been nice.

Juevos Daniels: biggest stones in the business.

by tricer on Dec 27, 2007 7:29 PM CST up reply actions

Does Cat really have much trade value?

Cat'll be making $4 mil this season and next and that might be perceived being excessive for a backup/part-time/platoon guy. Plus, Cat is coming off the worst season BA-wise of his career and put up his lowest OBP in 9 years, all this despite seeing 95% of his AB's against RH'ers. Seems his trade value could be at its lowest right now and that to get anything back, we'd have to chip in some dough.

by Rangerchick on Dec 27, 2007 5:35 PM CST reply actions

No, Cat has next to no trade value

First only an AL team would have any interest whatsoever. Next, none of the premier AL teams have a need for a platoon DH. Then none of the small market teams would want to spend millions on a declining player with no versatility. And with that, you have basically ruled out most every team. Cat is only marginally better than Broussard and as we found out, teams will basically give guys like him away for nothing.

Juevos Daniels: biggest stones in the business.

by tricer on Dec 27, 2007 7:34 PM CST up reply actions

Not an N.L. team?

He can play left field and first base, and would be a quality bat off the bench...he'd have value to an N.L. team...

I think you are underestimating his trade value...

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 27, 2007 7:40 PM CST up reply actions

I don't think an NL team

would give up anything of value for a pinch hitter/bench player. And I don't think any NL team would pursue Catt for a starting spot at either 1B or LF.

Juevos Daniels: biggest stones in the business.

by tricer on Dec 27, 2007 7:44 PM CST up reply actions

let me get this straight...

I hear a lot of bitching about Botts, and leaving him out of the future. If JD does this, fine, he's made his executive decision - but he better not do it just because we need to keep Cat around. At every stop, Botts took some adjusting to get started. Last year, in both AAA and major league ball, it was the same

In AAA:

started out horribly (don't have the stats), finished with .320 AVE, .436 OBP, .545 SLG

In major league ball:

August: .207 AVE, .288 OBP, .304 SLG
September: .280 AVE, .372 OBP, .373 SLG

Sure his SLG isn't where we want it, but he improved, and if I could get a full year of .280ish AVE and .370ish OBP from my DH for 5 years to come, I'd be pretty happy about that. If we started 2007 with Botts as our every day DH, I bet he'd have kept improving...but we didn't, and we lost a free chance to evaluate him for a full year to the Sosa circus. How can you possibly give up on this guy because he starts slow, and how can you judge him as a AAAA player? What if we gave up on Tex because he was essentially Botts for the first month of every season? Most of us have already given into the idea that 2008 will be a learning experience with growing pains...why not trade Cat if we can, and if not, find another way to clear a roster spot, and hand the DH to Botts for all of 2008? If Bradley's not healthy enough to start the year in the OF, fine, put him on the DL, and ride Botts' first month of the season...then hopefully he'll reward our patience by continuing to develop as the year goes on.

He's a gigantic, patient, switch-hitting monster and he's relatively young (compared to our prior DHers) and very cheap.

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Dec 27, 2007 8:30 PM CST reply actions

Cat and Laird

for Capuano or Bush.

"2008 should be about rebuilding, 2009 about taking a step forward. 2010 is the target year." -AJM

by dstar442005 on Dec 27, 2007 11:11 PM CST reply actions

i'd like

to give Botts more time.......at DH, if anything he needs to just concentrate on hitting and i really don't want to play him at LF everyday, but I really want to give him more time.....

and for some reason i don't want to get rid of Cruz either, i want to give him the offseason and just give him a few more months and see if he can put it together, honestly the reward if he puts it together far outweighs the downside if he doesnt, same with botts.......

so i'd rather trade Cat than giving up either of them, even though i would've rather had Cat play 1st than trade for Broussard/Shelton.....

by slash on Dec 28, 2007 8:28 AM CST reply actions