Hurley and Harrison

by Allen13 on May 23, 2007 9:26 PM CDT

Hurley: 8IP 0R 0BB 6SO
I am surprised that no one else has posted yet.
Hurley is pitching lights out. I am not for rushing people, but I believe he may be ready for OKC. This will be his first game past 7IP which is another good sign.

Going through the minor leauges I noticed no Harrison. I know he must be injured, but remind me what happened.

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Hurley

91 pitches through 8, just gave up a leadoff single on the first pitch of the ninth.

by Outworlder47 on May 23, 2007 9:24 PM CDT reply actions

Walks the next batter

but gets a strikeout. Fastball still sitting 91-93.

by Outworlder47 on May 23, 2007 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Another K

on the high heat. Pitch count at 110+. Hurley hit 94 in that AB.

by Outworlder47 on May 23, 2007 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Kablam...!

The sound you just heard was the ulnar collateral ligament of the only reason and hope most of us have for the Rangers snapping like a dry twig. Thanks, Ranger development staff, for leaving Hurley in for this many pitches.

by benmor78 on May 23, 2007 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Are you kidding?

Ben, are you kidding or did he really get hurt at the end?

by rangeressary on May 23, 2007 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions

He didn't get hurt...

that I know about... but 110 pitches in a AA game seems... well, stupid. Especially considering the heat, and the fact that they had recently pushed his pitch count pretty high in another game.

by benmor78 on May 23, 2007 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm pretty sure ...

... that this is the 3rd game in a row over 110 pitches thrown.

Rangers Farm Probables

by shroomer on May 23, 2007 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't mind it every once in a while,

but that's a bit much...

www.mavsmoneyball.com

by Wes Cox on May 23, 2007 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions

Hurley

That kid is a gamer. I would take him to war anyday of the week. Terry Clark (the Frisco pitching coach) went out to the mound after he walked the first guy of the inning. (Making two on, no outs in the top of the 9th) I wouldn't be surprised if he told Clark to tell Hererra to sit down, he won't be needed. I can see Hurley saying "You WILL not take me out of this game. It's mine to finish. That will be all."

by bigups41 on May 23, 2007 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions

That is...

completely, utterly, Corky from "Life Goes On" retarded.

You, sir, are on notice.

by benmor78 on May 23, 2007 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions

benmor

I can live with that. Hope that makes you feel better.

by bigups41 on May 23, 2007 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions

I bet...

Kerry Wood wanted to pitch twice in one day, or two days, or whatever it was in that high school playoff series. Of course, I would think a good coaching and development staff wouldn't want to actively contribute to slagging a pitcher's arm.

by benmor78 on May 23, 2007 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions

pitch counts are silly

japanese pitchers throw 150 pitch bullpens at game speed. if you know how to throw with your body, there's very littel stress on the arm (see tim lincecum). Some day, professional baseball will get it.

buffering....

by SteveP on May 23, 2007 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Uh huh...

you're rivaling "bigups" for most foolish comment of the night.

by benmor78 on May 23, 2007 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions

Here's

an article I read from Tim's dad. Just saw it a couple of days ago and got pretty excited. Chris Lincecum gets it!

http://baseballevolution.com/richard/chrislincecum.html

"Those athletes didn't throw with just there arms and shoulders as probably 70% or more have been doing for the last 40+ years. Those pitchers don't last for more than 4 to 7 years and usually throw their elbows or shoulders out. Sad thing is that they become pitching coaches and open clinics and teach their mechanics to the children (charging ridiculous fees) addressing their mechanics as "the Pro way" of doing it (after all, all you have to do is watch a game on T.V. and see that most major leaguers are using the muscle-method way of throwing, therefore confirming it), thus creating less than efficient throwers, for the next generation, who in turn throw their arms out and usually can't understand why. Just watching these types of poor mechanics makes me cringe with pain. "

buffering....

by SteveP on May 23, 2007 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Send me $500...

and I'll teach you how to buy real estate with no money down.

by benmor78 on May 23, 2007 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions

Ben, don't feel bad.

You've bought into the baseball belief system. The only sport where a widely accepted training method is to NOT train the specific activity. Instead, we'll throw footballs! Think about it. Insanity.

buffering....

by SteveP on May 23, 2007 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Is there...

a correlation between high pitch counts at a young age, and arm injuries? Yes, it would appear so. If Tim Lincenum has discovered the Fountain of Arm Health through his suberp mechanics, then more power to him. I'd rather not have Hurley throw 120+ pitches in AA games.

by benmor78 on May 23, 2007 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't think pitch counts are silly

But it isn't a hard-and-fast formula.

Nolan Ryan was able to throw 150+ pitches per game throughout his prime, and stay healthy.

On the other hand, he didn't log a ton of innings when he was 20-21, which may have had an impact.

It is a difficult subject.

But given the risks involved, I generally think that it makes sense to err on the side of caution, particularly with young arms.

by Adam J. Morris on May 23, 2007 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions

If you're not trained to do it

then, no they shouldn't. That's why I always wonder after an outting of less than 100 pitches, what does a pro pitcher do to make up the deficit? They should be in the pen getting the rest of their work in.

buffering....

by SteveP on May 23, 2007 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions

Complete game shutout, Eric Hurley!

5H, 9K, 1BB on the night. Announcers were pumped in the 9th.

by Outworlder47 on May 23, 2007 9:33 PM CDT reply actions

Honest Estimate...No Fan Bias Please

Do you think he has cracked the top 10 pitching prospects in baseball, and if so, where would you rank him overall at this point?

by rangeressary on May 23, 2007 9:37 PM CDT reply actions

He's headed

for a big climb up the top 100, no idea how high. But anything is possible, he looked a lot better than Hochevar tonight.

by BHill on May 23, 2007 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Very well could be

It's a little hard to define a prospect in the middle of the season, but I'll exclude anyone who's pitched in the majors this season.

Probably ahead of Hurley:

Homer Bailey
Yovani Gallardo
Adam Miller

Then you have:
Clay Buchholz
Jake McGee
Jeff Niemann
Matt Garza
Eric Hurley
Scott Elbert
Clayton Kershaw
Nick Adenhart
Franklin Morales
Kevin Slowey
Michael Bowden
Deolis Guerra

all pretty close.

by Brett Perryman on May 24, 2007 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions

It may happen...

The Rangers sent Armando Galarraga back down to Frisco yesterday. That means our rotation consists of Mike Wood, Joyhn Koronka, John Rheinecker and ____. I doubt Josh is ready by Sunday/Monday, Chen is on the DL as well and from what I hear the Rangers are pretty definite about leaving Astacio in the bullpen after his struggles. Add that to tonight's rainout (which means short rest for Mike Wood who pitches the first game tomorrow) and I wouldn't be surprised to see Eric start for us on Monday. Of course, they could just as easily recall Armando or give us Luis Mendoza...but I chose to live in hope! :-)

http://www.mvn.com/milb-rangers

For old times sake...C'mon Kelly! :-)

by Beverly23 on May 23, 2007 9:38 PM CDT reply actions

Simon has been stinking it up ...

... but I assume he's still in the rotation, right?

Rangers Farm Probables

by shroomer on May 23, 2007 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Oops, yes...

That was supposed to be Alfredo and ____.

I haven't heard they plan on moving him from the rotation, but I certainly wouldn't object! He's looked like he is throwing BP lately...

http://www.mvn.com/milb-rangers

For old times sake...C'mon Kelly! :-)

by Beverly23 on May 24, 2007 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions

i guess it's just not that surprising anymore

he's a beast.

by Longhorn on May 23, 2007 9:42 PM CDT reply actions

OKC would be great....... but......

The Rangers need a fifth starter on Tuesday, the 29th. I know, I know, most of you (for some unGodly reasons) don't think he should be "rushed"(Damn, I hate that line). But after an extra days rest (would be 6 days for Hurley), he should get his shot. He has done EVERYTHING (i'm sure) that the Rangers have asked of him.

Hurley should start on Tuesday for the big club. I could care a less what excuses we have on this board about him "not being ready" or not "needing" him this year.

Tuesday, the 29th, he should start in Oakland.

Pitching the first ever shutout for the Frisco Roughrider franchise.

Totals

9IP 5H 0R 0ER 1BB 9K's (ERA now at 1.83)

by bigups41 on May 23, 2007 9:44 PM CDT reply actions

Yeah...

let's start the clock on arbitration elegibility right now, in a meaningless season.

by benmor78 on May 23, 2007 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions

This

means about 10,000 more times to me than the stupid rushed cliche. This reason alone I don't bring him up - so we can control him another year

"Everyone in the world thinks they know everyhing" - DStar

by Mike Simonek on May 23, 2007 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Is it possible ...

... that if Hurley came to the bigs right now and was as electric as some people think he's gonna be, that there would be a tangible boon to the franchise image among potential FA's both this upcoming offseason and the NEXT? And would such indirect franchise improvement easily offset any technical issues regarding options/arb-elig/etc?

Rangers Farm Probables

by shroomer on May 23, 2007 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Its possible

but I am drunk, and that is way too much for me to comprehend Mr Shrooooooom

"Everyone in the world thinks they know everyhing" - DStar

by Mike Simonek on May 23, 2007 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions

lol

Rangers Farm Probables

by shroomer on May 23, 2007 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Well...

the formula would be:

Attractiveness of Hurley pitching this year, in a losing year >= an additional year of control of Hurley with whatever prospects you get from trading Tex, Sosa, Aki, Gagne and this year's draft.

If you're rebuilding, which they should be if this is a 100 loss team, making the team "attractive" to free agents would seem to be a distant second to that additional year of team control.

I don't know. Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe we should throw Hurley out there and have him go 120 pitches every outing. Maybe we should bring him up and start the clock now.

by benmor78 on May 23, 2007 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Considering TINSTAAPP ...

... is the value of the 'extra year' a given? Considering how lousy this franchise is at judging talent, is 'rebuilding' a given?

Rangers Farm Probables

by shroomer on May 23, 2007 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions

If...

there is such a thing as a pitching prospect, and you bring him up this year, you've lost one year of control of a young, good pitcher.

If there isn't such a thing as a pitching prospect, you bring him up now, and he either dominates or doesn't, his arm falls off or whatever, and the extra year of control doesn't matter.

So, in situation 1, you've lost a year of control. In situation two, you get a young pitcher throwing for your team a year or two early, in seasons that likely don't matter. What's the benefit of 2 over 1?

by benmor78 on May 23, 2007 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions

and

if he comes up, he has to take someone's slot. They need to give Tejeda and Loe plenty of chances to grow while Hurley dominates Frisco and OKC. If this team is going to lose 90-100 games then let them pitch and find out what you've got. Hurley can come up next year.

by t ball on May 23, 2007 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Disagree

What if he takes his "rookie lumps" this year so that if we are in contention next year he will be able to shine through? I don't buy this "we don't need him policy." What kind of a fan doesn't want to win? Ok, let's not bring him up and continue to lose. I would NEVER say that about ANY team I route for. I hate it wat to much when my teams lose. Plus he WILL NOT do ANY worse than any of the other guys.

by bigups41 on May 23, 2007 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions

then you

cheat someone else's development, and how does that help the team? You also risk his 'rookie lumps' becoming 'oops, he wasn't quite ready for this' and you have Volquez. AND, many argue that major league innings are more stressful on young pitchers than minor league innings. Considering his pitch counts lately, that's one more reason not to bring him up just yet.

by t ball on May 23, 2007 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions

Before you say some of the ramblings.....

and compare him to all of people, Edinson Volquez, look at his numbers compare to Volquez's. Volquez hasn't got EVEN CLOSE to the numbers, suff, or CONTROL that Hurley has. That is the biggest thing. Volquez's downfall has ALWAYS been his command. Hurley has it, and he is ready.

by bigups41 on May 23, 2007 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah,why "rush" Hurley?

Jamey Wright will be ready any day!

by tklawless on May 24, 2007 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions

Looking at the schedule ...

and assuming the Rangers would use any off days to skip the 5th spot in the rotation ...

Hurley would pitch ...

May 27th
June 1st
June 16th
June 26th

4 times over the next 33 days. Does that sound like a good idea?

Rangers Farm Probables

by shroomer on May 23, 2007 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Okay, craw-dad warning ...

... that's Loe's schedule - Hurley's rhythm obviously wouldn't just naturally fit in the same schedule. Strike that.

Rangers Farm Probables

by shroomer on May 23, 2007 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Point Taken

by bigups41 on May 23, 2007 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions

here's a t thought.

Let's trade Hurley for a pitcher who is already "major league ready".

"This is a simple game, you hit the ball, you catch the ball, and you throw the ball."

by lwjr on May 23, 2007 9:49 PM CDT reply actions

I doubt......

anyone here has actually seen him pitch but I found this post a while back from someone who has.......

Just thought I would let everyone see, I am not the only one.....

http://www.lonestarball.com/story/2007/5/18/103520/074#commenttop

Eric Hurley
I don`t post very often, but with what`s going on with the big club and all this talk about Hurley I`ve got to say something.
1. I`ve read things that Jaimey and MJH have written (after they have seen him a few times)about Hurley, a couple of things stand out to me they wrote. Maturity, excellent mound presence and excellent fastball command.
Make no mistake, without these three you simply cannot compete at the big league level.

2. I`ve seen Hurley a few times, in person, not on a computer screen. In person you get to see expressions, after a double, homerun, walk, hit batter or simply walking on and off the field.
From what I`ve seen it would not be rushing him for him to pitch in the big leagues this year. Having seen him and speaking to him he would see it as a challenge.

He`s got the tools now to pitch in the big leagues and from what I`ve seen the consistency as well.

Who cares if they start his "clock" now, if he does well somebody elses "clock" will probably stop(i.e.traded). Also, if he does well, that`s just another piece of the ever changing puzzle in trying to establish a big league rotation. Since trades that will be made this summer will impact the team next year, why over buy or under sell without knowing what Hurley can or cannot do?

I`ve watched and followed some of the American born higher tier pitchers of the 2003-2005 draft and what most of them have in common is that they have a played higher levels of ball,i.e. USA international teams and the highest level of tournament ball. They`ve seen extremely good competition. Now that does not mean they are better pitchers than others, but I believe they handle difficult situations, stress and failure better.

Roy Firestone once asked Micheal Jordan why he wanted the ball for that last shot and why was he so successful when he took that last shot. Jordan without hesitation said "because I`ve failed so many times".
You can definitely see that in Eric Hurley, he`s one that wants the ball.

by bigups41 on May 23, 2007 10:05 PM CDT reply actions