Newberg Teixeira trade idea

by stephen86 on May 31, 2007 9:05 AM CDT Comment 44 comments

In his report today, Jamey Newberg suggested:

"You think Texas would be interested in pitchers like Chuck James, Kyle
Davies, Joey Devine, Matt Harrison, and James Parr? How about outfielder
Brandon Jones?

Or catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia, who certainly has enough bat to move to
first base or left field, either spot of which he'd fit nicely in Texas? He
has the chance to be special.

Oh, and for those of you who subscribe to the Norm Hitzges theory that you
should never trade for a young Atlanta pitcher because they're all
overhyped, do Kevin Millwood and Jason Schmidt and Jason Marquis and Odalis
Perez and Adam Wainwright and Jorge Sosa not count? How many clubs have
traded more young arms that ended up working out well?

For some reason, Atlanta is getting largely ignored as far as this story is
concerned, and I'm not sure why. The Braves are four games behind the Mets
and a game in back of Arizona for the Wild Card, have no aversion to dealing
with Boras (Andruw Jones, Alex Rodriguez in 2000), and have a chance to get
a local hero.

Which team wouldn't do Teixeira for James, Saltalamacchia, and Parr?"

I don't know about you, but I would be absolutely thrilled with that return. James is already quality, middle to top of the rotation starting pitcher and Salt could be an incredible asset behind the plate. I really can't imagine the Braves offering that much though. Thoughts?

0 recs | Comment 44 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

I'd said from the beginning

that I thought the Braves were our best (and probably only) trading partner. I'm sure the Braves know that in the post-season you only need 4 starters (sometimes just 3 if the schedule works out right). So why not give up one for a middle of the lineup bat that they really, really need?

Two problems I see:
(1) Their offense is pretty good right now. Would they tinker with it? Maybe, if they fall further behind the Mets.

(2) They have three solid starters right now (Hudson, Smoltz, James), would they really deal James? They might, but I think only if Davies had a good string of good starts or they grab another solid pitcher.

The more we look at Teix trading partners, the more I get discouraged. I'm beginning to think we won't get that great of a return if we trade him...unless the Dodgers get real antsy.

by isaacbrock on May 31, 2007 9:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

James

I don't see Atlanta giving him up, they're losing confidence in Davies, so without James it's Smoltz and Hudson and...I'd be less surprised if they tried to add a starter. I'm sure they'd be happy to get Teixeira, I just don't see them giving up James (and relying on both Smoltz and Hudson to remain healthy and effective) to do it.

by t ball on May 31, 2007 9:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

james

yeah, all i've heard is how much the braves like james I really doubt they deal him.
Davies on the other hand I could see them dealing.

"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on May 31, 2007 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

FYI: Ned Colletti trades

December 2005: Andre Ethier from Oakland for Milton Bradley and Antonio Perez

January 2006: Chuck Tiffany and Edwin Jackson to Tampa Bay for Danys Baez and reliever Lance Carter

June 2006: Toby Hall, Mark Hendrickson and cash from the Devil Rays for Dioner Navarro, Jae Seo and a PTBN

July 2006: Duaner Sanchez and Steve Schmoll to the Mets for Jae Seo and Tim Hamulack

July 2006: Joel Guzman and Sergio Pedroza to Tampa Bay for Julio Lugo

July 2006: Cesar Izturis to the Cubs for Greg Maddux

July 2006: Wilson Betemit from the Braves in exchange for Danys Baez, Willy Aybar and cash considerations

July 2006: Elmer Dessens from the Royals for Odalis Perez,Blake Johnson,Julio Pimentel and cash considerations

********

Jackson, of course, was sort of like Edinson Volquez and Tiffany was a solid B+ prospect (big lefty with 90ish velocity and a good curve). These were not premium prospects in the Dodgers stable at the time of that deal.

Likewise Guzman: his status as a premium prospect had started to wane by the time that deal went down. He'd clearly been passed by Kemp, LaRoche and Loney among position prospects in the system.

More on this later; gotta run to a deposition.

by mjh on May 31, 2007 9:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The question:

Who is Ned Colletti's henchman-in-chief? Because he must have a good one.

by benmor78 on May 31, 2007 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Minions

Isn't the Royals new GM a former Colletti henchmen?

Derek

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on May 31, 2007 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

I thought his most recent job was scouting director/player development (something like that) for Atlanta.

Well Mr. Burns had done it. The power plant had won it. With Roger Clemens clucking all the while.

by WyoRanger on May 31, 2007 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

correct

Dozens!!!

by Brian Thomas on May 31, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kim Ng

......

by mjh on May 31, 2007 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who is Adam's henchman-in-chief?

I think it's Sharky.

by benmor78 on May 31, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

nobody could take your place Ben

you're the henchiest henchman of them all

by mjh on May 31, 2007 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hmmmm

I think Logan White may actually be more important from a talent evaluation perspective (and talking to one scout I know he is very highly regarded inside and outside of the Dodgers organization)... Kim Ng is more important from the business side (contract negotiation etc).

by Brandon Wilson on May 31, 2007 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Logan White

The Rangers need to find his henchman-in-chief and hire him to run the scouting department.

by mjh on Jun 1, 2007 5:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

better idea

hire Logan White as your GM...

by Brandon Wilson on Jun 1, 2007 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about the Mariners

They're not completely out of the race and they have a young CF in AAA, Adam Jones. From what I've heard he's very promising. If they have any pitching prospects maybe they could put a package together. thoughts?

If you don't have fun it's your own damn fault.

by cgolden on May 31, 2007 9:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Mariners

They have Sexson at 1B and Vidro at DH so I don't think they would consider either of those positions to be "need" areas.

Fire Michael Young and Ron Washington and Vicente Padilla

by pblack on May 31, 2007 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would have to think that Tex

would be a tremendous upgrade over a DH who hasn't hit double digit HR in two years and hasn't hit over 19 in six years. Tex could move into first and be an upgrade defensively and Sexson could move to DH and Vidro could become a utility guy.

If you don't have fun it's your own damn fault.

by cgolden on May 31, 2007 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Regardless...

I think Vidro is making $7.5 million in 2007, so I really don't think the Mariners would do that.

by benmor78 on May 31, 2007 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two things...

I would love it if we were able to get a return like Jamey's proposal from Atlanta. I think that is exactly what we have been talking about 2-3 stud players in return.
I don't keep up with the minor league teams much, other than reading Scott's reports every morning. But, it seems like Mayberry is starting to put it together. He's still hitting for power, and it seems like he has been getting 1-2 walks per game for the past week or so. For as disappointed as I was in the pick when it happened, and the fact that he is still in A-ball, this is very promising.

by Topgun22 on May 31, 2007 10:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I went down this road.....

with Soriano. I'm not getting sucked in again. For two years we hashed out every possible (good...never bad) scenario. I was prepared to be blown away by the return. I have a funny feeling that this will follow that same path.

by bdavison94 on May 31, 2007 10:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

disappointment

I think most fans will be disappointed because they have unrealistic expectations (We should ask for Maybin, Miller, and Hernandez from Detroit!). Not saying that's the case with you, but most casual, and even many ardent fans.

by t ball on May 31, 2007 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The difference

GMs know that Teixeira is as good or better than the perception is. GMs knew that Soriano was worse than his public perception.

by JBImaknee on May 31, 2007 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Soriano, by the way

The Chicago press is already saying it was a bad deal and he needs to start performing. He's on about a 14 HR, 50 RBI pace with an OPS lower than any season since 2001 (.799). Last year was flukey, and at the time of that trade most thought JD had gotten about as good a package as possible under the circumstances. Wilkerson's injuries and poor performance don't change the fact that the trade was a reasonable return at the time. Fans who expected more were deluding themselves.

by t ball on May 31, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I always thought....

the Wilkerson trade was a fair return. Still...you and most here weren't hoping for more? Maybe my memory is failing but I think most of us were pleasantly surprised because the trade deadline in 2005 went so poorly on that front.

by bdavison94 on May 31, 2007 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

when this trade was made, i'd say about 90% of the people here were 'blown away' by the sori trade...notsomuch the media.

by Longhorn on May 31, 2007 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blown away?

I thought it was fair (as did most here) but it sure didn't blow me away.

I had suger plums dancing in my head at the trade deadline in 2005 though. I bet if you went back and looked so did most others.

by bdavison94 on May 31, 2007 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A lot of people

loved the sori trade from what i can recall.

by Longhorn on May 31, 2007 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

I remember several national writers- notably BP's Christina Kahrl- who thought the Rangers royally screwed Washington in that trade.

And just for kicks:

2007 Soriano: 289/341/458 (109 OPS+)

Wilkerson: 250/324/500 (113 OPS+)

"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on May 31, 2007 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Was it Christina or Chris at that point?

by tklawless on May 31, 2007 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's the thing

I have to disagree with this:

Millwood was 28, and coming off his 5th straight season as a quality starter, when he was dealt. He was a veteran being traded a year before he became a free agent because of budgetary reasons.

Jason Schmidt has several good, not great, seasons in Pittsburgh before blossoming in San Fran in his post-f.a. years.

Jason Marquis had a couple of years of a good ERA with lousy peripherals in St. Louis, then was awful last year.

Odalis Perez isn't very good.

Adam Wainwright has one good season as a reliever, and has been not very good in the rotation this year.

Jorge Sosa was 29 when he was traded, and isn't anything special.

If we trade Mark Teixeira for a couple of pitchers who turn out to be as good as Jason Marquis and Jorge Sosa, that's a bad trade.

by Adam J. Morris on May 31, 2007 12:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

hindsight's 20/20

Perez was a very talented young power lefty at the time, and he had some solid seasons with LA. Marquis was a guy with power stuff who certainly looked like a solid mid-rotation guy for a while, and had some okay seasons for the Cards. It's way too early to write off Wainwright, and Schmidt was a very hyped prospect who lived up to the billing, although it took a while. Sosa and Millwood are the the only names that doesn't belong there...the Braves got Sosa from Tampa Bay for a backup middle infielder, he had one solid season with a deceptively low ERA, then bombed. And they dealt Millwood when Maddux surprised them by accepting arbitration. They got Johnny Estrada from that deal, so I don't think they got totally hosed there either.

So...I'm not sure Braves pitchers are overhyped. If it proves anything, it's the old TNSTAAPP. Those pitchers, for the most part, were valued assets at the time the Braves dealt them, and for good reasons.

And I'd trade Tex for James and Salty in a moment. I have to think the Braves wouldn't do more than Salty, Devine and Davies, though...that's a package I'd consider, but doesn't blow me away.

www.theTNR.com

by SteveOla on May 31, 2007 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

James and Salty??

Are you kidding? We are hosing our ownselves with these trade ideas...

by Longhorn on May 31, 2007 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

All the names JN mentioned just do not scream all-star or even a great prospect at all. I would hate to do a trade with Atl. They don't have much of anything I would want...

And what's the deal about Saltalamacchia. A 733 OPS in AA woudln't make me feel good about him going to 1B or LF. If Saltalamacchia was named Joe Brown he would be just your every ordinary catching prospect. I know he's rather young, but still...this is Tex, what ATL can offer is subpar.

by Longhorn on May 31, 2007 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea

he had a pretty off year last yr...BUT this year:

aaa: .309 avg/6 HR/13 RBI/13:17 bb:k/.404 obp/1.022 OPS (81 AB's)

majors: .313 avg/1 HR/5 RBI/4:5 bb:k/.405 obp/.843 OPS (32 AB's)

...id take that.

by knockoutking24 on May 31, 2007 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Adam...

I think you're missing my point, but not being in Hitzges's market is a good excuse. He likes to say, every few months, that ATL is so shrewd at trading hyped pitching prospects who NEVER make it that you should run for the hills any time they try to trade you a pitcher. Seems that Rob Bell and Bruce Chen got him on that kick.

My point is not that ATL trades aces. It's that, despite what Hitzges says, they don't cunningly trade pitchers who end up never making it.

by Jamey Newberg on May 31, 2007 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn

after reading the whole e-mail, seems like Tex isn't good enough to fetch back someone like Kazmir or Hirsh. Just a bunch of B-listers. Quite dissapointing.

by Longhorn on May 31, 2007 1:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Elijah Dukes

I read something about the D-Rays wanting to give up on Dukes and looking for bullpen help - would either Gagne or Otsuka for Dukes make sense at all? I'm sure Gagne wouldn't resign with the D-Rays, so maybe that doesn't work - but you never know?

Dukes would give us some legitimate future OF help...he is a nutcase, but a talented nutcase nonetheless

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on May 31, 2007 1:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Dukes

The only problem there is that he's on the Rae Carruth career path right now, and as much of a fan of Dukes' talent as I am, I'm not sure the off-field stuff is worth it.

"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on May 31, 2007 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well...

the way I look at it, we absolutely HAVE to trade Gagne, Otsuka and Sosa before too long and get some value out of them, and if we can, trade Tex and Lofton, too...Lofton if anybody will take him for anything valuable, and Tex if we can get something close to a fair return (a Hamels/Kazmir/Danks type plus a higher-end position prospect)

I'd target some questionable guys like Dukes in the process - mix it up, go for a few guys with great character and a few with questionable character and hope Ronnie Dub can babysit them during their growth

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on May 31, 2007 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aki...

Not sure why we "HAVE" to trade Otsuka. He's arb eligible after the season, not a FA.

by Topgun22 on May 31, 2007 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would be for keeping Aki

if we trade off Gagne, like we should. We're not going to find a better closer for the money he'll demand.

If you don't have fun it's your own damn fault.

by cgolden on May 31, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Feldman or Murray

by tklawless on May 31, 2007 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd put

CJ Wilson into the closer role, see if it works out, it's what he wants...if that doesn't work out, use Frankie Fran. Or AJ Murray. Anybody, I'd even throw Jack Benny out there. The point is, this ship's sinking fast and we should get rid of all of our older, higher-salary, valuable commodities in exchange for young talent and build it the right way - the way the Marlins have. We can't even depend on our vets. Why keep Otsuka around to lose 100 games? What's the point in keeping him at all??

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on May 31, 2007 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you are absolutely correct Walter..

lets start from scratch.. out with the old and in with the new.. lets see some exciting kids in there building from the ground up..cuz we all know this SUCKS !

GayRangerFan

by RangerDisaster on Jun 1, 2007 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs