The ESPN baseball commentators are idiots
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 6:47 PM CDT
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PrintSo far today I have heard Buster Olney and John Kruk both say that Sammy Sosa has been the Rangers' best player this year, and Karl Ravich say that few players in the A.L. have had as good a season as Sosa has this year
Stupid.
Sosa hasn't been one of the Rangers' 1half-dozen best players this year, and hasn't been one of the 50 best offensive players in the American League this year.
Update [2007-7-1 22:47:53 by Adam J. Morris]: -- John Kruk just said, AGAIN, that Sammy Sosa is the best player on the Rangers.
Anyone who says that Sosa is the best player on the Rangers is either 1) joking, 2) someone who hasn't bothered to actually look at what the players on the Rangers have done this year, or 3) an idiot.
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blah blah blah
by kumar75150 on Jul 1, 2007 6:47 PM CDT reply actions
if you hate him for steroids or something
because youve suggested its all about performance, and if you actually dislike him this much for a .784 ops and 63 rbi, and blocking botts for the last couple weeks once botts has gotten himself going again....
overkill.
I wasn't going to say anything else about it...
zywica will be blogging from the 4th thru the 7th, and he luvs Sosa, so there will be more balance then.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
it was ridiculous
Yea
That being said, that's probably somewhat true
Lofton, Teix, Blalock (smaller sample), MY (only because he is a shortstop), Byrd (smaller sample size)
have all been better, with Kinsler probably being a push.
Kinsler isn't a push
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
How
by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
No
OPS+ underweights OBP.
Kinsler's been better offensively, as reflected in his EQA, because he has a higher OBP and has been a great basestealer.
And even a bad defensive second baseman has more value than a DH, if their offensive production is equal.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
So RBI have absolutely no value whatsoever by any means, but 23 steals is a good measure of a player.
So, if you played Sammy in center everyday, he would be more valueable even though he would be terrible. That doesn't make any sense to me.
by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
basestealer
Yea
by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm confused
How so?
So, if you played Sammy in center everyday, he would be more valueable even though he would be terrible.
No. Sosa would be a far, far, far worse centerfielder, defensively, than Kinsler is a second baseman, defensively.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
EQA
I still want to know why RBI's have no value, but suddenly SB's are very valuable.
My point is if you are bad at a premium position, you aren't valuable at that position.
You haven't made a point that tells me that Kinsler is "pretty clearly better" than Sosa.
by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Alright
by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions
well
So
I love Kinsler, but the guy has been the biggest butcher I have ever seen the Ranger put at 2B.
Defense isn't irrelevant
However, Kinsler hasn't been as bad this season as people are making him out to be.
He's still better defensively at second base than Soriano was.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Better defensively
Cat
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I get what
Cat
Don't see Cat doing anything
I think its likely he is done
Still going to give him...
or laird...
In fact, I'm pretty sure that Adam has never mentioned that Gerald Laird has a .219 EqA
That's because
Maybe someday
Well how about a change of pace
For instance maybe we could point out that Sammy Sosa is worth 5.4 RARP, while Laird is worth 0.4 RARP - which ranks 46th among big league catchers.
I hear ya,
Laird...
OK
Now can we start bagging on Laird and get off of Sosa's ass?
If you think...
no one to replace Laird...
When you have a starter that is performing at replacement level, it's not a big deal to find someone to replace them. That is the whole concept.
Heck, we could call up Salomon Manriquez from Frisco and get similar production. Maybe we should try that.
I'd like to see
by badradiorules on Jul 2, 2007 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you really think...
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I think...
All the Sosa talk has distracted us from discussing one of the worst starting position players in major league baseball.
This is a lost season anyway, so I think taking a look at some of the catchers in our minor league system might be a good idea. It would be almost impossible for them to be any worse at the plate than what Laird has been.
Given...
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Laird's minor league track record...
And now he has 750+ plate appearances at the big league level with the following line:
.254 / .307 / .384 / .690
I don't see any evidence that he can handle being an everyday starter. I don't have any problem letting him play out the rest of the year, but I also don't have any problem if they want to bring in somebody else and give them a shot.
In either case, we need to find a catcher for next year's team. Maybe a veteran guy that can start 4-5 times a week and then hang around to tutor Teagarden in 2009 in beyond. Somebody like Barajas maybe.
Catcher
If they are going to bring in someone to look at the rest of the season instead, it needs to be someone better than the options we have currently in the system.
And Laird wasn't a great offensive player in the minors, but he was also relatively young at each level.
He's a good defensive catcher who has shown in the past he can hit some. I think you ride it out with him for a while.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe that Laird
We don't need him to be Pudge in his prime, we just need him to be average with the bat and good at defense. It seems like he still has a good shot at playing that well. I like your recent idea, though, of putting up with Laird until the middle of next season when Teagarden is hopefully ready. Cross your fingers.
getting a handle on the pitching staff
It was a perfect opportunity for Laird to pick up on all that stuff, and apparently he didn't take advantage of his chance to learn those lessons.
I like Laird, and I want him to do well, but to be honest I'm starting to think he ain't that bright.
You can see
I thought...
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't put much stock into it
Maybe Laird really is that inept.
There certainly don't seem to be a whole lot of plus signs in Lairds favor, other than the fairly trivial ability to throw out runners.
Good defensive catcher?
He is good against stolen bases, but considering how few stolen bases occur in baseball, I'm not sure that is such a critical metric.
Laird should be the AL starter
Adam
On the other hand, Im not a big Sosa fan but when Sosa was signed, did anyone honestly expect him to do much better than he has done? I dont think Sosa is great. Im just sick of seeing daily threads about how much he sucks when those thoughts dont translate to the other guys.
by kumar75150 on Jul 1, 2007 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Someone
thx.
projection thread
the average LSB prediction: .246/.310/.452
remarkably accurate =p
hes beating it by a bit though.
GMs
by BCanfield @ Lone Star Ball on Jul 1, 2007 7:04 PM CDT reply actions
Yes
by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions
x
I think it's just that the guys in Bristol are making television that's not designed for me. They cater to the sports-talk listening, cliché-slinging casual fan. 95% of of baseball viewers have never heard of and don't care about OPS+ or park-adjusted statistics, and ESPN makes lowest-common-denominator TV shows.
I mean, any network that pays John Kruk and Joe Morgan to analyze baseball is pretty much not worth paying attention to. I'll continue to consume my sports analysis and highlights through the Internet, thank you very much.
list the half dozen
just wondering.
i can only imagine it includes 2-3 relievers. which i just have a hard time doing since relievers just dont have the same impact on the team that starting pitchers and everyday players do.
Yep, that crappy bullpen has had ...
got that covered
I'll rephrase: don't make idiotic sarcastic posts to perfectly reasonable ones.
I've never said the bullpen was meaningless. I praise the bullpen to no, end and say how much i enjoy watching gagne pretty much every time he pitches. I said gagne would be my choice for the all star game. I praise BGL to no end. To sarcastically say i tihnk the bullpen has no impact is idiotic.
But the fact is, Eric gagne has pitched 24 innings. many of them in losses just to get work. Saying its hard for me to put that level of contribution, no matter how good, on equal level with every day performances is not idiotic.
But I would actually probably put gagne above sosa since he has simply been THAT good when in.
its aki and CJ with the mid 2s ERA that i have a hard time putting above sosa.
I didnt say they wernt valuable, i said they wernt on the same level as starters and positions.
Which is simply the case. 45 to 70 innings in relief just doesnt equat to 600 at bats or 180 to 220 innings as a starter in impact.
and if you are the stathead you seem to think you are (if im remembering old posts correctly) then you should know that.
but again, dont confuse less important with not being important. i love the rangers having a good pen. but if i could trade it for a good starting staff id sure as hell do it.
Great. Glad to know the pen isn't meaningless.
intellectually dishonest? at the least?
jesus christ, the relief comment wasnt meant to say he couldnt put them on there. it was meant to say I wouldnt put too many personally and would disagree with his if he did. i was listing off in my head who i would put above sosa, and was contemplating what relievers to put ahead of him. i thoguht about all the guys with 2s ERAs in my head (as listed below like eyre and mahay) and was thinking I wouldnt put them above sosa, and made a comment about it.
it was thinking out loud.
there are some relief roles that I would put on equal level. scott shields throwing 90 to 100 innings of suht down relief year after year. a shut down closer. but a middle reliever with a 2.5 ERA who has been technically above average vs sosa who can be argued has been below average? i was just trying to relate my thoughts on it.
if he disagrees, he can argue against my point. like you could of. just dont do it by posting insane sarcastic posts that misrepresent what ive said.
although it looks like hes left for now anyway.
anyway...........
hell i didnt even really disagree that there were 6, i just wanted to see who he would list. ive got 5 i would have no big argument with over sosa and could probably be convinced for at least one more now that im thinking about it more.
if ive somehow given you the impression i think sosa has been truly above average and all star worthy you are way off the mark. i just like him and dont think hes been anywhere near as bad as AJM does.
Dont ask the impossible.
is this sarcasm
Pardon the hell out of me.
So I'll tell you what, I'll quit being sarcastic when some of you Sosa disciples quit being stupid.
How
I've never said that he is really good. I've actually said a number of times that there is no way that he can keep up the pace and that we should deal him as soon as possible.
But to put in the same category as Cat, Wilk, Cruz, Vazquez, etc. is insane.
The guy makes a good point. Individual bullpen members are never as valuable as everyday players. I thought you guys learned that in Stathead 101.
by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't recall saying anything about you.
Wait
A great reliever is, without doubt, more valuable than a mediocre positional player.
Sosa is a mediocre positional player. Thus, there are relievers more valuable than him.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I should have gone deeper
I guess the Rangers are probably that bad.
by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Mariano Rivera?
You're telling me
You value Rivera over
Jeter
Williams
Posada
Pettite
Wells/Cone
Martinez
Soriano
Clemens
by badradiorules on Jul 2, 2007 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
i can name them
tex
lofton
byrd
young
pitchers we got:
gagne
otsuka
eyre
mahay
i think sosa is right about even with cj wilson
that puts him probably tied for 9th for best player this year.
kinsler fizzled out and blalock got hurt early.
sosa has still been good (see all those RBI's) and i think was better than most of us expected. but we didn't really expect much after what he did with the O's. he is definitely a bargain at 500K
Question
He had an 848 OPS in June, so I'm not sure how it is that he's fizzled out.
He had an awful month of May, but made up with it with a great April and a pretty good June.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions
re:question
The 5-6
Young
Lofton
Teixeira
Gagne
Otsuka
Wilson
Blalock and Byrd have, arguably, been better than Sosa this season.
In terms of VORP, the six positional players I listed are ahead of Sosa, as are the three relievers, and Mahay, Benoit and Eyre.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions
sounds about right
blalock/byrd i just dont think have enough at bats to directly compare.
-------------
anyway...
i do have one more point on the whole rbi thing i want to say though. i think i can word it better now.
the rbis are just a function of his RISP numbers + being in the cleanup spot to get the chances. VORP and EQA (i think anyway) completely ignore it and i dont think thats fair when comparing them.
while someone who has a .780 ops, but 1.000 with RISP, may have technically been an inferior hitter to someone who has a .800 ops but a .750 with RISP, can you at least admit the first person may have contributed more to the teams wins than the second based on those numbers? despite having a lower eqa/vorp/etc/etc.?
thats the point i think you are missing with RBIs.
a counter can be made with his low obp taking away rbi from hitters behind but it completely wipes it out.
--------------
and finally.... although they were in fact saying best on the team which would include tex and everything... for the actual all star game tex couldnt play, who is the one player who would have been WAY ahead of everyone else.
i dont think sosa making it, as BBTN wanted, would have been a huge injustice over young, who hasnt been that good, and gagne, who missed a month. ill repeat i would have preferred gagne over both young and sosa though.
ALRIGHT! done. i need to work on shortening my posts.
VORP and WARP
by a bebop a rebop on Jul 2, 2007 2:38 AM CDT up reply actions
vorp now, eh?
by the way, i'm not sure how you can say a relief pitcher is more valuable than a position player with sosa's #'s.
well
umm
i see
I can't assume, but I think he used VORP primarily to compare all of the players in that list, both offense and defense
I used VORP...
If you are looking at strictly offensive production, EQA is more meaningful than VORP.
If you are looking at value of the offensive production relative to position, then VORP is better.
And...
by the way, i'm not sure how you can say a relief pitcher is more valuable than a position player with sosa's #'s.
Sosa's numbers are below average for a DH.
Is a very good relief pitcher more valuable than a below-average DH?
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
a situational pitcher
Sosa
No, he's not.
A .261 EQA from a RF/DH is not average.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
.261 EQA is above
Please explain how a DH/RF who is above league AVG in EQA is not better than a situational pitcher who has a tough time getting righties out?
DH/RF
so calling him a league average DH/RFis just a tad misleading. Its is more like, league average hitter who plays DH/RF
Ok.....
Dunno
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
of course now
According to BP
Sosa is not below average according to the metric you have selected, he is right at league average.
didn't realize he's played 51 games
Probably
by badradiorules on Jul 2, 2007 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
yep
Kruk
That having been said, Sosa probably still makes it after the roster gets settled.
by Randy Richardson on Jul 1, 2007 8:41 PM CDT reply actions
Botts
by kumar75150 on Jul 1, 2007 8:44 PM CDT reply actions
long swings
but, he did change his swing so I don't see why you wouldn't let him have a chance now since he's changed and he's hitting the cover off the ball.
Yes
breaking balls
My mind is officially boggled.
All star batting practice team
by Brian Thomas on Jul 3, 2007 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
ESPN
by Randy Richardson on Jul 1, 2007 9:06 PM CDT reply actions
i don't think citing john kruck
kruck
ha this reminds me
quote from one of the writers at "most valuable network" - "Sosa's batting average, granted, is only .255, but he has 14 home runs and 63 runs batted in, seventh-most in major league baseball.
The geeks that are trying to measure this season's Sosa by Win Shares, VORP and Runs Created Per 27 need to get a life.
We're trying to fill an All-Star roster, not a Bill James spreadsheet."
Can't wait to read about it on your blog...
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