The ESPN baseball commentators are idiots

blah blah blah

He must have wronged you in the past. Just give it up already.

by kumar75150 on Jul 1, 2007 6:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

if you hate him for steroids or something

just say it.

because youve suggested its all about performance, and if you actually dislike him this much for a .784 ops and 63 rbi, and blocking botts for the last couple weeks once botts has gotten himself going again....

overkill.

by DSheppard on Jul 1, 2007 6:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't going to say anything else about it...

...but the crying of the ESPN commentators irritated me.

zywica will be blogging from the 4th thru the 7th, and he luvs Sosa, so there will be more balance then.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Adam

what did he ever do to you?

by coolaid on Jul 1, 2007 6:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

it was ridiculous

i don't how those guys get away with that kind of "analysis" unchallenged. they're saying he was robbed!

buffering....

by SteveP on Jul 1, 2007 6:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yea

did so Sosa commit a sex crime against one of your family members or something.

That being said, that's probably somewhat true

Lofton, Teix, Blalock (smaller sample), MY (only because he is a shortstop), Byrd (smaller sample size)

have all been better, with Kinsler probably being a push.

Chris Young/Adrian Gonzalez for Aki Otsuka, the new Sammy Sosa/Wilson Alvarez for Harold Baines

by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 6:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Kinsler isn't a push

Kinsler has been pretty clearly better than Sosa this year.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How

Their OPS+ are identical. While Kinsler plays a valuable position, he's balanced that out by being a hack in the field at this point.

Chris Young/Adrian Gonzalez for Aki Otsuka, the new Sammy Sosa/Wilson Alvarez for Harold Baines

by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

Their OPS+ are identical. While Kinsler plays a valuable position, he's balanced that out by being a hack in the field at this point.

OPS+ underweights OBP.

Kinsler's been better offensively, as reflected in his EQA, because he has a higher OBP and has been a great basestealer.

And even a bad defensive second baseman has more value than a DH, if their offensive production is equal.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

EQA greatly overweighs walks. "Great basestealer" How about efficient base stealer. He's on pace for 23 steals, nice, but not great.

So RBI have absolutely no value whatsoever by any means, but 23 steals is a good measure of a player.

So, if you played Sammy in center everyday, he would be more valueable even though he would be terrible. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Chris Young/Adrian Gonzalez for Aki Otsuka, the new Sammy Sosa/Wilson Alvarez for Harold Baines

by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

basestealer

I don't know... to me 11 sb's with 0 caught stealing is pretty good

"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on Jul 1, 2007 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yea

I said it was nice. Not eye popping however. Through three months, it isn't too hard to find 11 spots to take a base.

Chris Young/Adrian Gonzalez for Aki Otsuka, the new Sammy Sosa/Wilson Alvarez for Harold Baines

by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm confused

EQA greatly overweighs walks.

How so?

So, if you played Sammy in center everyday, he would be more valueable even though he would be terrible.

No. Sosa would be a far, far, far worse centerfielder, defensively, than Kinsler is a second baseman, defensively.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

EQA

doesn't it give more value to walks than OPS?

I still want to know why RBI's have no value, but suddenly SB's are very valuable.

My point is if you are bad at a premium position, you aren't valuable at that position.

You haven't made a point that tells me that Kinsler is "pretty clearly better" than Sosa.

Chris Young/Adrian Gonzalez for Aki Otsuka, the new Sammy Sosa/Wilson Alvarez for Harold Baines

by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're embarrassing yourself.

by alon91 on Jul 1, 2007 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alright

explain it to me then.

Chris Young/Adrian Gonzalez for Aki Otsuka, the new Sammy Sosa/Wilson Alvarez for Harold Baines

by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

with all this talk about eqa and ops and obp how can you say that one of kinsler's defensive blunders that causes a prolonged inning or worse - unearned runs is somehow more valuable than Sosa who doesn't even play defense. I agree kinsler is more valuable than sosa, he plays a much more complete game and his defense is apart of that. But you cannot just assume that a bad defensive 2b is better than a dh whose stats are somewhat similar.

by Lonerangers on Jul 1, 2007 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So

defense is irrelevant (unless it is Soriano), but RBIs are worthless. Steals are hugely valuable, but hitting with RISP is not worth watching?

I love Kinsler, but the guy has been the biggest butcher I have ever seen the Ranger put at 2B.

by Mike Simonek on Jul 1, 2007 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Defense isn't irrelevant

I'm not sure where you are getting that from.

However, Kinsler hasn't been as bad this season as people are making him out to be.

He's still better defensively at second base than Soriano was.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Better defensively

According to which stat?

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 1, 2007 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The thing is

I don't think i have ever heard Adam complain about Cat.

by coolaid on Jul 1, 2007 6:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Cat

If people were saying that he is the best player on the Rangers this year, or that he should be the All Star rep, I'd be complaining.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I get what

you are saying there but Sosa hasn't played all that bad and you can argue he is the best player on the team. He does lead the team in HR and RBIs.

by coolaid on Jul 1, 2007 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cat

isn't blocking anyone in the minors that could do better than him. Plus he's under contract for 2 more years

by chase1971 on Jul 1, 2007 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, you can move byrd

to LF and play sosa in RF and DH botts

by coolaid on Jul 1, 2007 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't see Cat doing anything

that Sosa can't do.

Mitt Romney should "get out his small-varmint gun and drive those Guatemalans off his lawn" -- Sen John McCain

by DJCahill on Jul 1, 2007 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So you think...

Cat is done?

by chase1971 on Jul 2, 2007 2:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think its likely he is done

look up all his "most similar batters" in baseballreference.com . Its fairly amazing the number of them that fell off a cliff in performance in their early 30s.

Mitt Romney should "get out his small-varmint gun and drive those Guatemalans off his lawn" -- Sen John McCain

by DJCahill on Jul 2, 2007 6:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Still going to give him...

another season to let him straighten it out. There's no reason to just stick him on the bench now and give up.

by chase1971 on Jul 2, 2007 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

He is and so is Wilkerson.

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 1, 2007 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

or laird...

...and his .219 EqA.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that Adam has never mentioned that Gerald Laird has a .219 EqA

by tricer on Jul 1, 2007 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's because

Adam hasn't had to refute anyone claiming that Laird is an all-star or having a great year.

by t ball on Jul 1, 2007 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe someday

Laird can be as good as Barajas.

Mitt Romney should "get out his small-varmint gun and drive those Guatemalans off his lawn" -- Sen John McCain

by DJCahill on Jul 1, 2007 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Laird

quite a disappointment this year, no doubt. I thought he'd at least hit .250, though he still might the rest of the year.

by t ball on Jul 1, 2007 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well how about a change of pace

Instead of constantly bagging on the guy with a .261 EqA, lets give equal time to bagging on the guy with a .219 EqA. Yes, that is Gerald Laird.

For instance maybe we could point out that Sammy Sosa is worth 5.4 RARP, while Laird is worth 0.4 RARP - which ranks 46th among big league catchers.

by tricer on Jul 1, 2007 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hear ya,

the 3 most disappointing Rangers for me, personally, at the halfway point are Tejeda, Laird, and Catalonotto. (in no particular order)

by t ball on Jul 1, 2007 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Laird...

isn't blocking anyone. And we have no one else to replace him with. And no one is calling him the best player on the team.

by chase1971 on Jul 2, 2007 2:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK

Laird should be an all-star and I think he's the best player on the team.

Now can we start bagging on Laird and get off of Sosa's ass?

"I'm an aggressive guy, I'm not a guy who's going to go up there and swing like a girl." - Sammy Sosa

by cgolden on Jul 2, 2007 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you think...

...Laird should be an All-Star and he's the best player on the team, then why do you think we should "start bagging on" him?

by mgb5 on Jul 2, 2007 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no one to replace Laird...

...according to the metrics, any Catcher in AAA, or the on the waiver wire, or in the independent leagues could provide similiar offense to what Laird has posted.

When you have a starter that is performing at replacement level, it's not a big deal to find someone to replace them. That is the whole concept.

Heck, we could call up Salomon Manriquez from Frisco and get similar production. Maybe we should try that.

by tricer on Jul 2, 2007 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd like to see

Quiroz. He was a big time prospect once upon a time. He's hit well enough at AAA and is supposed to be good defensively.

Chris Young/Adrian Gonzalez for Aki Otsuka, the new Sammy Sosa/Wilson Alvarez for Harold Baines

by badradiorules on Jul 2, 2007 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you really think...

...we should call up Manriquez and bench (or send down) Laird?

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think...

...every possible alternative to upgrade the catching needs to be explored. Gerald Laird is currently the 46th most productive major league catcher. Several teams have backup catchers better than Laird.

All the Sosa talk has distracted us from discussing one of the worst starting position players in major league baseball.

This is a lost season anyway, so I think taking a look at some of the catchers in our minor league system might be a good idea. It would be almost impossible for them to be any worse at the plate than what Laird has been.

by tricer on Jul 2, 2007 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Given...

...the track record Laird has, in the majors and in the minors, I have a hard time believing that calling up someone like Manriquez and giving him regular playing time is a better option than seeing what Laird does the rest of the way...

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Laird's minor league track record...

...is nothing stellar. He had one season with an OPS greater than .800 and that was in his seventh season, and in his third run through the PCL.

And now he has 750+ plate appearances at the big league level with the following line:
.254 / .307 / .384 / .690

I don't see any evidence that he can handle being an everyday starter. I don't have any problem letting him play out the rest of the year, but I also don't have any problem if they want to bring in somebody else and give them a shot.

In either case, we need to find a catcher for next year's team. Maybe a veteran guy that can start 4-5 times a week and then hang around to tutor Teagarden in 2009 in beyond. Somebody like Barajas maybe.

by tricer on Jul 2, 2007 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Catcher

I don't have any problem letting him play out the rest of the year, but I also don't have any problem if they want to bring in somebody else and give them a shot.

If they are going to bring in someone to look at the rest of the season instead, it needs to be someone better than the options we have currently in the system.

And Laird wasn't a great offensive player in the minors, but he was also relatively young at each level.

He's a good defensive catcher who has shown in the past he can hit some. I think you ride it out with him for a while.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I believe that Laird

has been weighed down with getting a handle on the pitching staff/game calling side of things and his bat will get back to league average the 2nd half.

We don't need him to be Pudge in his prime, we just need him to be average with the bat and good at defense. It seems like he still has a good shot at playing that well. I like your recent idea, though, of putting up with Laird until the middle of next season when Teagarden is hopefully ready. Cross your fingers.

by t ball on Jul 2, 2007 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

getting a handle on the pitching staff

I really thought that was Buck's intent last year. Play Laird sparingly and let him learn some of the finer points of ML catching without the added burden of having to produce everyday.

It was a perfect opportunity for Laird to pick up on all that stuff, and apparently he didn't take advantage of his chance to learn those lessons.

I like Laird, and I want him to do well, but to be honest I'm starting to think he ain't that bright.

by tricer on Jul 2, 2007 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can see

why Buck seemed to prefer Barajas to Laird. Neither can hit, but if you can't hit, you better be able to call a game or do something.

Mitt Romney should "get out his small-varmint gun and drive those Guatemalans off his lawn" -- Sen John McCain

by DJCahill on Jul 2, 2007 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought...

...you didn't put any stock in that gamecalling/handling pitchers stuff.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't put much stock into it

until you see a whole rotation collapse when going from Barajas to Laird.

Maybe Laird really is that inept.

There certainly don't seem to be a whole lot of plus signs in Lairds favor, other than the fairly trivial ability to throw out runners.

Mitt Romney should "get out his small-varmint gun and drive those Guatemalans off his lawn" -- Sen John McCain

by DJCahill on Jul 3, 2007 7:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good defensive catcher?

Apparently Washington has legitimate concerns whether he can call a game. He leads the AL in Passed Balls.

He is good against stolen bases, but considering how few stolen bases occur in baseball, I'm not sure that is such a critical metric.

Mitt Romney should "get out his small-varmint gun and drive those Guatemalans off his lawn" -- Sen John McCain

by DJCahill on Jul 2, 2007 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no one's calling Laird

an all star.

buffering....

by SteveP on Jul 1, 2007 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Laird should be the AL starter

"I'm an aggressive guy, I'm not a guy who's going to go up there and swing like a girl." - Sammy Sosa

by cgolden on Jul 2, 2007 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Adam

never complains about his guys or guys he was on board with. You will rarely hear him complain about Kinsler, Laird, Cat, or Whifferson even though all 4 of them have performed way way below expectations as a whole. Im not even going to mention the starters.

On the other hand, Im not a big Sosa fan but when Sosa was signed, did anyone honestly expect him to do much better than he has done? I dont think Sosa is great. Im just sick of seeing daily threads about how much he sucks when those thoughts dont translate to the other guys.

by kumar75150 on Jul 1, 2007 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Someone

please link the sammy sosa prediction thread.

thx.

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 1, 2007 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

projection thread

http://lonestarball.com/story/2007/3/29/112225/792

the average LSB prediction: .246/.310/.452

remarkably accurate =p
hes beating it by a bit though.

by DSheppard on Jul 1, 2007 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh, and..

AJMs predictin:
.225/.280/.410

so hes been much better than AJM though he would be =p although he said 215 at bats which would be DFA'd by now.

not that i think that was a bad prediction, its better than his baltimore numbers

by DSheppard on Jul 1, 2007 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

GMs

Hopefully, some of the GMs will agree with the talking heads and trade us something for him.

by BCanfield on Jul 1, 2007 7:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes

It's annoying to hear how great he's been, but I hope other people in baseball are drinking the Kool-Aid.

Chris Young/Adrian Gonzalez for Aki Otsuka, the new Sammy Sosa/Wilson Alvarez for Harold Baines

by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

x

I don't think I'm saying anything too groundbreaking, but BBT (and, really 90% of all ESPN original programming) has been unforgivably bad for many years now.

I think it's just that the guys in Bristol are making television that's not designed for me. They cater to the sports-talk listening, cliché-slinging casual fan. 95% of of baseball viewers have never heard of and don't care about OPS+ or park-adjusted statistics, and ESPN makes lowest-common-denominator TV shows.

I mean, any network that pays John Kruk and Joe Morgan to analyze baseball is pretty much not worth paying attention to. I'll continue to consume my sports analysis and highlights through the Internet, thank you very much.

by alon91 on Jul 1, 2007 7:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

list the half dozen

that have been noticeably better than Sosa.

just wondering.

i can only imagine it includes 2-3 relievers. which i just have a hard time doing since relievers just dont have the same impact on the team that starting pitchers and everyday players do.

by DSheppard on Jul 1, 2007 7:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yep, that crappy bullpen has had ...

... nothing to do with the few wins we have this year. And they've been particularly non-impact in the Boston series. Worthless jackasses.

by Athos on Jul 1, 2007 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

dont be an idiot

kthnx.

by DSheppard on Jul 1, 2007 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You first.

by Athos on Jul 1, 2007 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

got that covered

but if you want an actual reply.

I'll rephrase: don't make idiotic sarcastic posts to perfectly reasonable ones.

I've never said the bullpen was meaningless. I praise the bullpen to no, end and say how much i enjoy watching gagne pretty much every time he pitches. I said gagne would be my choice for the all star game. I praise BGL to no end. To sarcastically say i tihnk the bullpen has no impact is idiotic.

But the fact is, Eric gagne has pitched 24 innings. many of them in losses just to get work. Saying its hard for me to put that level of contribution, no matter how good, on equal level with every day performances is not idiotic.

But I would actually probably put gagne above sosa since he has simply been THAT good when in.

its aki and CJ with the mid 2s ERA that i have a hard time putting above sosa.

I didnt say they wernt valuable, i said they wernt on the same level as starters and positions.

Which is simply the case. 45 to 70 innings in relief just doesnt equat to 600 at bats or 180 to 220 innings as a starter in impact.

and if you are the stathead you seem to think you are (if im remembering old posts correctly) then you should know that.

but again, dont confuse less important with not being important. i love the rangers having a good pen. but if i could trade it for a good starting staff id sure as hell do it.

by DSheppard on Jul 1, 2007 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great. Glad to know the pen isn't meaningless.

Of course, that's not what you implied in your original post. You were daring anyone to claim a reliever or two might be having better seasons than God's current gift to RBIs when the game isn't close or in the late innings. Clearly, our relievers have done well in pressure situations, and to demean that as "just not as important as starters or everyday players" in an attempt to head off anti-Sosa arguments is pretty damned intellectually dishonest at the very least.

by Athos on Jul 1, 2007 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

intellectually dishonest? at the least?

i wish there were smiley faces on this board so I could properly laugh.

jesus christ, the relief comment wasnt meant to say he couldnt put them on there. it was meant to say I wouldnt put too many personally and would disagree with his if he did. i was listing off in my head who i would put above sosa, and was contemplating what relievers to put ahead of him. i thoguht about all the guys with 2s ERAs in my head (as listed below like eyre and mahay) and was thinking I wouldnt put them above sosa, and made a comment about it.

it was thinking out loud.

there are some relief roles that I would put on equal level. scott shields throwing 90 to 100 innings of suht down relief year after year. a shut down closer. but a middle reliever with a 2.5 ERA who has been technically above average vs sosa who can be argued has been below average? i was just trying to relate my thoughts on it.

if he disagrees, he can argue against my point. like you could of. just dont do it by posting insane sarcastic posts that misrepresent what ive said.

although it looks like hes left for now anyway.

anyway...........

hell i didnt even really disagree that there were 6, i just wanted to see who he would list. ive got 5 i would have no big argument with over sosa and could probably be convinced for at least one more now that im thinking about it more.

if ive somehow given you the impression i think sosa has been truly above average and all star worthy you are way off the mark. i just like him and dont think hes been anywhere near as bad as AJM does.

by DSheppard on Jul 1, 2007 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dont ask the impossible.

Mitt Romney should "get out his small-varmint gun and drive those Guatemalans off his lawn" -- Sen John McCain

by DJCahill on Jul 1, 2007 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

is this sarcasm

getting a little bit old for anyone else?

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 1, 2007 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pardon the hell out of me.

But reading statements like that one are taking this crap a little too far. Relievers just don't contribute that much? In 2004, the Rangers won 89 games in large part because of their solid bullpen. The only shining spot this season has been the bullpen. Without them, we'd be lucky to have half the wins we do now.

So I'll tell you what, I'll quit being sarcastic when some of you Sosa disciples quit being stupid.

by Athos on Jul 1, 2007 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How

is arguing that Sosa hasn't been "awful" or needs to be DFA'd, make someone a Sosa disciple?

I've never said that he is really good. I've actually said a number of times that there is no way that he can keep up the pace and that we should deal him as soon as possible.

But to put in the same category as Cat, Wilk, Cruz, Vazquez, etc. is insane.

The guy makes a good point. Individual bullpen members are never as valuable as everyday players. I thought you guys learned that in Stathead 101.

Chris Young/Adrian Gonzalez for Aki Otsuka, the new Sammy Sosa/Wilson Alvarez for Harold Baines

by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't recall saying anything about you.

Unless you have more than one user name ....

by Athos on Jul 1, 2007 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait

Individual bullpen members are never as valuable as everyday players.

A great reliever is, without doubt, more valuable than a mediocre positional player.

Sosa is a mediocre positional player. Thus, there are relievers more valuable than him.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I should have gone deeper

When you are going six deep, they shouldn't. If you have an individual bullpen member that is more valuable than your top 6 everyday players/starting pitchers, you are really bad.

I guess the Rangers are probably that bad.

Chris Young/Adrian Gonzalez for Aki Otsuka, the new Sammy Sosa/Wilson Alvarez for Harold Baines

by badradiorules on Jul 1, 2007 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mariano Rivera?

most considered him to be one of the yankees 6 best and they did pretty well for themselves for a few years during that. Also the rangers are really bad

by bushe on Jul 2, 2007 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're telling me

that during their hayday.

You value Rivera over
Jeter
Williams
Posada
Pettite
Wells/Cone
Martinez
Soriano
Clemens

Chris Young/Adrian Gonzalez for Aki Otsuka, the new Sammy Sosa/Wilson Alvarez for Harold Baines

by badradiorules on Jul 2, 2007 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i can name them

okay we got position players:

tex
lofton
byrd
young

pitchers we got:
gagne
otsuka
eyre
mahay

i think sosa is right about even with cj wilson
that puts him probably tied for 9th for best player this year.

kinsler fizzled out and blalock got hurt early.

sosa has still been good (see all those RBI's) and i think was better than most of us expected. but we didn't really expect much after what he did with the O's. he is definitely a bargain at 500K

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on Jul 1, 2007 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Question

kinsler fizzled out

He had an 848 OPS in June, so I'm not sure how it is that he's fizzled out.

He had an awful month of May, but made up with it with a great April and a pretty good June.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

re:question

his june was better than may, but i'd say after the 1st month sosa outperformed him. ops or not

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on Jul 1, 2007 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The 5-6

Kinsler
Young
Lofton
Teixeira
Gagne
Otsuka
Wilson

Blalock and Byrd have, arguably, been better than Sosa this season.

In terms of VORP, the six positional players I listed are ahead of Sosa, as are the three relievers, and Mahay, Benoit and Eyre.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2007 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sounds about right

i dont think kinsler, young, otsuka or wilson have been that much better though. and i have the previously mentioned question of listing middle relievers above him, but for the sake of argument i guess ill agree.

blalock/byrd i just dont think have enough at bats to directly compare.

-------------
anyway...

i do have one more point on the whole rbi thing i want to say though. i think i can word it better now.

the rbis are just a function of his RISP numbers + being in the cleanup spot to get the chances. VORP and EQA (i think anyway) completely ignore it and i dont think thats fair when comparing them.

while someone who has a .780 ops, but 1.000 with RISP, may have technically been an inferior hitter to someone who has a .800 ops but a .750 with RISP, can you at least admit the first person may have contributed more to the teams wins than the second based on those numbers? despite having a lower eqa/vorp/etc/etc.?

thats the point i think you are missing with RBIs.

a counter can be made with his low obp taking away rbi from hitters behind but it completely wipes it out.
--------------

and finally.... although they were in fact saying best on the team which would include tex and everything... for the actual all star game tex couldnt play, who is the one player who would have been WAY ahead of everyone else.

i dont think sosa making it, as BBTN wanted, would have been a huge injustice over young, who hasnt been that good, and gagne, who missed a month. ill repeat i would have preferred gagne over both young and sosa though.

ALRIGHT! done. i need to work on shortening my posts.

by DSheppard on Jul 2, 2007 12:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

VORP and WARP

are proprietary to BProspectus, and nobody really knows how they're calculated exactly, so I generally prefer to avoid them as best I can, but Win Shares does in fact take situational hitting into account.

by a bebop a rebop on Jul 2, 2007 2:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

vorp now, eh?

what about eqa, ops+?

by the way, i'm not sure how you can say a relief pitcher is more valuable than a position player with sosa's #'s.

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 2, 2007 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

OPS+ and EQA and other offensive stats don't really work well with relief pitchers, do they?

Forget Johnny Bench, we got Gerry "the Jet" Laird

by ab03 on Jul 2, 2007 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

umm

"In terms of VORP, the six positional players I listed are ahead of Sosa"

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 2, 2007 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i see

well, 6 position players are still better by OPS+ and EQA (young drops out, but victor diaz is ahead)

I can't assume, but I think he used VORP primarily to compare all of the players in that list, both offense and defense

Forget Johnny Bench, we got Gerry "the Jet" Laird

by ab03 on Jul 2, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I used VORP...

...because it uses a positional adjustment.

If you are looking at strictly offensive production, EQA is more meaningful than VORP.

If you are looking at value of the offensive production relative to position, then VORP is better.

And...

by the way, i'm not sure how you can say a relief pitcher is more valuable than a position player with sosa's #'s.

Sosa's numbers are below average for a DH.

Is a very good relief pitcher more valuable than a below-average DH?

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

a situational pitcher

who is good against lefties and not against righties is not better than an average DH/RF, which Sosa is.

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 2, 2007 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sosa

an average DH/RF, which Sosa is.

No, he's not.

A .261 EQA from a RF/DH is not average.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

.261 EQA is above

league average. Now, where are you getting that DH/RF differ here? I'm all for being edumacated.

Please explain how a DH/RF who is above league AVG in EQA is not better than a situational pitcher who has a tough time getting righties out?

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 2, 2007 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

DH/RF

are generally the better hitters in the league by position. therefore, when you use EQa (which doesn't adjust for position), you are comparing him to 2nd basemen, SS, catchers. So, yeah, he is league average compared to everybody, but not a league average DH/RF in terms of production.

so calling him a league average DH/RFis just a tad misleading. Its is more like, league average hitter who plays DH/RF

Forget Johnny Bench, we got Gerry "the Jet" Laird

by ab03 on Jul 2, 2007 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok.....

so what is the league avg for DH/RF? If Adam is going to say he's below I'd like to know how much below.

by bdavison94 on Jul 2, 2007 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dunno

But BP has him at 5.8 runs below average for position so far this season.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 2, 2007 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

League average EqA

for DH is .261

for RF is .269

by tricer on Jul 2, 2007 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well done....

by bdavison94 on Jul 2, 2007 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

of course now

he will be referred to as RF only, thus, below average...

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 2, 2007 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

According to BP

the league average for designated hitters is .261.

Sosa is not below average according to the metric you have selected, he is right at league average.

by tricer on Jul 2, 2007 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 2, 2007 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

didn't realize he's played 51 games

as a DH. What is his EQA when he DH's?

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 2, 2007 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably

better than .261. His OPS is .845 as a DH compared to .784 overall

Chris Young/Adrian Gonzalez for Aki Otsuka, the new Sammy Sosa/Wilson Alvarez for Harold Baines

by badradiorules on Jul 2, 2007 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yep

knew that this was not going to be an 'embarassment' if he was selected...

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 1, 2007 7:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Kruk

I couldn't believe he said that Sosa was the Rangers best player this year. It wouldn't have bothered me if Sosa had made it, but Kruk hasn't seen many Rangers games if he thinks that. How many managers intentionally walk the batter before the other teams "best player"? If you take away RBI and look at all the other major statistical categories, the numbers start to not look so good.

That having been said, Sosa probably still makes it after the roster gets settled.

by Randy Richardson on Jul 1, 2007 8:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Botts

Has anyone seen his new improved swing? Because the old Botts that I saw reminded me a whole lot of Nellie Cruz or Laynce Nix. Gotta be able to hit a breaking ball in the big leagues.

by kumar75150 on Jul 1, 2007 8:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

long swings

didn't we go over this already and decide that plenty of people have success with long swings?

but, he did change his swing so I don't see why you wouldn't let him have a chance now since he's changed and he's hitting the cover off the ball.

Forget Johnny Bench, we got Gerry "the Jet" Laird

by ab03 on Jul 2, 2007 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

And we also went over the fact w/ this guy that Botts hasn't had a problem w/ breaking balls...

"Why wasn't I moved by Million Dollar Baby? Because I have no soul, that's why." The Dirkatron, movie hater

by Brian Thomas on Jul 2, 2007 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

breaking balls

Botts toils away in AAA doing everything possible with the bat. Nelson Cruz, who really does have trouble with breaking balls, gets 4 times as many at bats over the last 2 seasons in the majors to prove himself.

My mind is officially boggled.

by t ball on Jul 3, 2007 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

All star batting practice team

Cruz and Arias are co-captains...

"Why wasn't I moved by Million Dollar Baby? Because I have no soul, that's why." The Dirkatron, movie hater

by Brian Thomas on Jul 3, 2007 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just says

having a glove counts for something.

Mitt Romney should "get out his small-varmint gun and drive those Guatemalans off his lawn" -- Sen John McCain

by DJCahill on Jul 3, 2007 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ESPN

I don't think I've ever heard Steve Phillips say anything insightful.

by Randy Richardson on Jul 1, 2007 9:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i don't think citing john kruck

is ever a good thing.

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 2, 2007 7:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

He should be cited

as a public nuisance.

by t ball on Jul 2, 2007 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

kruck

ever since adam pointed out that he looks like cabbage head from kids in the hall, that's all i can think of when i see him on baseball tonight

"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on Jul 2, 2007 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ha this reminds me

of all you jackasses who say sosa has been terrible this season.

quote from one of the writers at "most valuable network" - "Sosa's batting average, granted, is only .255, but he has 14 home runs and 63 runs batted in, seventh-most in major league baseball.

The geeks that are trying to measure this season's Sosa by Win Shares, VORP and Runs Created Per 27 need to get a life.

We're trying to fill an All-Star roster, not a Bill James spreadsheet."

by Lonerangers on Jul 2, 2007 4:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs