Brandon McCarthy

by erikj07 on Jul 25, 2007 8:03 PM CDT Comment 36 comments

Throughout the season I've been puzzled as to the many different opinions regarding Brandon McCarthy's potential. It seemed to me that when he was with the White Sox, most people pegged him as a top of the rotation guy. Since the trade went down, it seemed like many people started to call him nothing more than a #3 or #4 type guy, even prior to the season starting. After watching him really rebound nicely from his awful start of the season, I really think he has what it takes to be a #1 or #2 type pitcher. Im getting tired of talking about the same tex trades for days now, so i figured it would be interesting to see the overall opinions of everyone here. Cast your vote as to how you view McCarthy's ability...

Poll

How do you see B-Mac's future?

a) A legit ace... A #1 starter

4 votes

b) A solid #2 starter

49 votes

c) A #3 type pitcher

34 votes

d) Nothing more than a bottom of the rotation guy, #4 or #5 starter

0 votes

87 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 36 comments

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Comments

i think

that on a good rotation, he'd be a #4 guy.

he's been what? the #3 guy for texas this year?

on a mediocre rotation he could be a #3 guy

and on a god awful rotation he could be a #2 guy.

i don't see him as a #1 guy at the major league level lol

so pretty much i see him as a #3 or #4 guy.

before the season i knew not enough about him to call him a #2 guy

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on Jul 25, 2007 7:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i think

thats pretty pessimistic... With his ability and youth i think that he can continue to improve immensely.

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 25, 2007 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I

think he is saying potential wise a #1 or #2, not right now. I agree that he should be a solid 2 or 3 in a good rotation in his prime. Not convinced he could ace a rotation, but I hope he proves me wrong!

by fsujon on Jul 25, 2007 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well the current rangers rotation

has 3 guys that could be #3's on most rotations.

and then a couple guys that would be AAA/DFA'd

based on so far this season.

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on Jul 25, 2007 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

to clarify...

im talking about McCarthy's future potential... Obviously right now he's no #1 or #2 starter. Im simply wondering what people think he will become in the upcoming seasons.

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 25, 2007 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

easily

he could be a future rangers ace. #2 at the worst.

as far as on a "typical" rotation, i would see him as #2 at best. probably a strong #3.

that's not a knock. a strong #3 or average #2 is still a good pitcher.

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on Jul 25, 2007 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ummm??

the Rangers rotation isn't that bad. They have a good ERA in June and July.

Duncan Hunter for President in '08

by dstar442005 on Jul 25, 2007 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ive always liked him

He is a smart pitcher with massive potential. He will be fighting hurley for the ace job, no questions asked.

by NYTXFAN on Jul 25, 2007 7:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I like him

I don't think he has the stuff to be a true #1 in the truest since of the word, but when he has all three of his pitches working, I think he is good enough to be a #2. He still needs to sharpen his control some, but I like what he has shown recently. I still don't like the trade since I think Danks will be just as good, but in the end I think both teams will end up liking what they got from the trade.

by uthornfan on Jul 25, 2007 8:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

McCarthy

He reminds me a lot, at least in his build and some of his stuff, of Jon Garland, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Fire Ron Washington

by pblack on Jul 25, 2007 8:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

McCarthy

Everyone talks about his horrible April, but since then he's been the team's best pitcher. Even his April wasn't horrible for a young pitcher. His final three starts were terrible, but his first two performances were both quality starts and his 2 IP relief effort was good. So yeah, the bad were really bad, but the good in April were pretty good.

by rangeressary on Jul 25, 2007 9:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ace?

when I think of ace I think of guys like Santana, Clemens (back when)

McCarthy seems like a guy who needs things to go right for him to have a good start - he just does not dominate hitters.

by simplesimon on Jul 25, 2007 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

well....

you just named two of the best pitchers to ever play! You dont have to be a hall of famer to be an ace of a staff

rage against the gold club

by erikj07 on Jul 25, 2007 9:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm not impressed with McCarthy

He might end up being a good #3 if the Rangers are really lucky. I think he can be a really good four, but the problem is the Rangers have to find three better pitchers than him in order for him to be a four. Historically...

You're just a very misguided individual, Dustin. -- Sharky

by Dustin on Jul 25, 2007 9:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I go along with #3

He definitely isn't a #1, and probably not a #2.
Of course, I'm talking league-wise, not Ranger-wise. If you say that B-Mac can be a #1, then you also have to say that Danks can be a #1.
That would at least be consistent, at least for predictions.

Hit me in the eye...maybe I can see better.

by Clueless on Jul 25, 2007 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Consistent

and mediocre is what I see. Which isn't a terrible thing. If we could find a 10-year #4, I'd take it at this point.

by 3Bagger on Jul 25, 2007 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Strikeouts

I know not all aces have to strike guys out, but that is what I think of when I think of a true Ace...Bedard, Santana, Schilling, Beckett, Clemens, Unit, Rich Harden. Sure you'll have a Kenny Rogers or Greg Maddux come along every now and then, throw up a good season or even a great career, but I don't see McCarthy ever getting that strikeout rate up towards the 1 K / 1 IP rate. I think Texas pitchers, in order to be a true Ace, need to be hard-throwing lefties with a deep repertoire of pitches

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 25, 2007 10:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

BA Criteria

Here is the criteria Baseball America uses when determining what kind of starters pitchers are. Judging by this, McCarthy is a #3 with a chance to be a #2 if he can get his curveball to improve to where it is a plus pitch.

#1
Two plus pitches
Average third pitch
Plus-plus command
Plus makeup

#2
Two plus pitches
Average third pitch
Average command
Average makeup

#3
One plus pitch
Two average pitches
Average command
Average makeup

#4-5
Command of two major league pitches
Average velocity
Consistent breaking ball
Decent changeup

by uthornfan on Jul 25, 2007 11:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed

he will be a #2 eventually, not yet but i think mccarthy loe and hurley will all get better in the next couple years

by weslyenkid01 on Jul 25, 2007 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, if we are going by BA

Then he's a #2.

John Manuel has called his change and fastball "above average." He also has called his curveball an "average major league curve." His command is good, and his makeup is good. So by BA's standards he projects as a #2.

I've read multiple accounts that suggest that he might develop a little more as he bulks up since he's rather gangly currently.

Personally, I think he projects as a #2. I mean, he's quite possibly been our best overall starter this year. If you remove the three really bad outings from April, then he's got a very low 4s ERA.

I am really concerned with the walks. What's really strange is that his worst starts of the year weren't due to high walk totals. The walks mainly have come in games when he pitched pretty well. Strange.

by rangeressary on Jul 26, 2007 4:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

McCarthy's FB

it's usually high 80s with no movement. How is that a plus ML fastball?

Me and Billy the Kid never got along. I didn't like the way he cocked his hat and he wore his gun all wrong.

by tricer on Jul 26, 2007 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I was stating what BA has said since they were the criteria for the discussion.

Personally, I wouldn't call it a plus fastball, but it's above average, and maybe John Manuel was projecting what it will turn out to be eventually. After all, he's 6'7" and like 195. With added bulk you would assume the fastball would improve. I do think it's more fair to say that he has a low 90s fastball though. It's not great velocity, but were not talking about Jamie Moyer here either. And from a taller pitcher it appears faster than it actually is.

One of the first things I was disappointed to see with McCarthy was the lack of movement on his fastball when he came to the Rangers. Some scouts said he had a low-90s fastball with good movement. It seems like it's straight as an arrow now though...no idea what happened or if the scouts were just wrong.

by rangeressary on Jul 26, 2007 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

McCarthy

I don't see him adding velo at this point in his life. It just doesn't usually happen.

by badradiorules on Jul 26, 2007 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

command

how do you figure his command is good and then reference concern for the walks?

I think his command is what really hurts him right now - especially his fastball.

I've heard some many for pitchers turned broadcasters say that it all starts with commanding the fastball - if he can get that down and be consistent from start to start then maybe I can see him being a #2.

by simplesimon on Jul 26, 2007 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was saying what BA says

Since we were using BA as our criteria, I was quoting and referencing what they said immediately before and after the trade. Many scouts spoke well of his composure and command.

Now my own take is that I'm concerned with the walks. I think he's not as sharp as he can be right now. Although, walks are not always a sign of a lack of command, especially when pitchers are trying to get batters to chase pitches outside of the zone. Like I said that, I don't think his command is anywhere near what it can or should be right now.

by rangeressary on Jul 26, 2007 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm now convinced

that #3 is his probable ceiling.

Hit me in the eye...maybe I can see better.

by Clueless on Jul 26, 2007 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

McCarthy

I may be reading too much into it, but he was just on the post-game show and I got the feeling he's content to go up there and suck under the guise of a "learning process".

These guys ought to demand a lot from themselves. I know he's young and he hasn't been all that bad recently, but it's not like he's just up from AAA.

You're just a very misguided individual, Dustin. -- Sharky

by Dustin on Jul 25, 2007 11:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That would seem to

go against other comments he's made recently about wanting to get better and not being satisfied. I don't have a problem with his attitude.

mmmmmm...64 slices of American cheese...

by t ball on Jul 26, 2007 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

From all accounts

He's one of the most competitive, hardest working pitchers on the team. He's really hard on himself, so I don't know where you got your feeling otherwise.

by rangeressary on Jul 26, 2007 4:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

uh, that interview

You're just a very misguided individual, Dustin. -- Sharky

by Dustin on Jul 26, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're probably

reading too much into that. That would be the only instance I can recall of him saying anything like that, and that quote is not even bad if you read it a different way. Learning is exactly what he should be doing right now, and I'd much rather hear that kind of thing out of a young pitcher than the quotes coming from Beavan.

mmmmmm...64 slices of American cheese...

by t ball on Jul 26, 2007 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

True

...but I didn't read it. I saw him answer a reporter's questions on television. But I haven't read a lot about what people on the team have been saying this year, so I really don't know. That particular quote didn't impress me.

You're just a very misguided individual, Dustin. -- Sharky

by Dustin on Jul 26, 2007 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs