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Thursday a.m. things

A 4 game sweep of the Mariners, with all 4 games by one run.  Sweet.  If we can't be in the playoff race, we can at least jack with someone else's chances.

Brandon McCarthy didn't look particularly sharp yesterday -- he seemed to have issues with his fastball command -- but he made it through 5 innings allowing just 3 runs.  The Rangers are now just 10 games under .500 for the season, and just 2.5 games back of the Oakland A's.

And the remarkable thing about getting to J.J. Putz is, he's allowed all of 5 runs this season, with 4 of them being from Ranger home runs.  The Ramon Vazquez homer was the first run he's allowed outside of Safeco this year.

And you have to appreciate the irony of former Mariner prospect Ramon Vazquez hitting the game winner.

Mike Heika says any questions about Eric Gagne's durability and ability to bounce back quickly should have been put to rest after he pitched in Monday's game and in both games of Tuesday's doubleheader.  Heika also says that Vicente Padilla is slowly working his way back, with another rehab outing scheduled for Friday, where he'll throw 45 pitches, while Ian Kinsler is going to have a 3 game rehab assignment this weekend, after which he will presumably be activated.

To trade stuff, with Mark Teixeira being the hot topic of conversation...

And before we start with the linking, I'd like to make an observation...I have to think that the reports that there's no way the Dodgers will part with James Loney, or the Braves with Jarrod Saltalamacchia, can't be right, if those teams are actually interested Teixeira.  If the Dodgers trade for Teixeira, they have nowhere for Loney to play until 2009.  Same with the Braves and Saltalamacchia.  

What would be the point of the Dodgers trying to land Teixeira -- which it is widely reported they are trying to do -- if they don't use Loney as a trade chip?  What are they going to do, let Loney sit in AAA the next 2 years?  Or have him on the bench as a pinch hitter?  Give me a break...

Dave Sessions reports that the Dodgers, Angels, Braves, and BoSox are all pushing hard for Teixeira right now.

The Newark Star Ledger says:

Long regarded as one of the top offensive prospects in the game, "Salty" could end up having been the key to the biggest deal of this year's trade deadline. Late last night, the Braves and the Texas Rangers were said to be close to a deal that would send first baseman Mark Teixeira and a relief pitcher (such as C.J. Wilson, Ron Mahay or Joaquin Benoit) to Atlanta for Saltalamacchia, shortstop prospect Elvis Andrus and a minor-league pitcher.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution says that the Braves clubhouse was "abuzz" over talk of acquiring Teixeira, with Braves players excited about the idea of adding him.  That, of course, can only help Daniels' negotiating stance...

Also from the J-C piece is talk of the Rangers including a reliever in the deal, with the Braves preferring C.J. Wilson or Eric Gagne, while the Rangers are more willing to deal Ron Mahay.

Of course, despite all this talk of a deal being close, the New York Daily News says that Teixeira isn't likely to go anywhere because of Daniels' unreasonable demands.  This is as part of an article that discusses how Brian Cashman absolutely refuses to part with Philip Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, and Ian Kennedy...

And on other Rangers trade possibilities, the Cleveland Plain Dealer says the Indians feel the Rangers are asking too much for Kenny Lofton, hindering trade talks there.

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Adam
what would be an acceptable package to you from either the Braves or the Dodgers? And, who do you think is the better player, Saltalamacchia or Loney?
One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 26, 2007 8:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Salty
Im not too overwhelmed by him.  His offensive potential seems great for a catcher but meh for a 1st baseman.

by kumar75150 on Jul 26, 2007 8:40 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

nah
I think Salty's potential is good for a 1B, and phenomenal for a catcher. If he comes to Texas and plays 1B, I think he will be among the top half of AL first basemen (say in two years) but closer to the midpoint than the top.

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 26, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yanks
i have a hard time believing that the yanks won't trade any of those 3. List the guys in the last 15 years that they have drafted, groomed and started in the big leagues more than a year or so?
very short list. they will trade 1 or 2 of those guys. unless their philosophy has totally changed of course. even with many of their starters getting old, i can't see the yanks starting 2 rookies next year in hughes and joba.

by mo on Jul 26, 2007 8:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Kirkjin (sp?) on Baseball Tonight
said JD asked for Adam Miller for Kenny Lofton.  Yeah, he is asking a lot.  I love it.

by OKC Ranger Fan on Jul 26, 2007 8:50 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't want him now
elbow soreness.
One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 26, 2007 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For Lofton?
He'll get over elbow sorness.  I might not as the centerpiece for Tex, but Lofton?  If you can get him, talke him.

by Droopydave on Jul 26, 2007 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i was thinking more along
the line that TJ might be soon. I don't think JD can take another injured player like that in a trade again...
One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 26, 2007 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd give up Lofton
for Miller starting in 2009.

Yes it is a risk, but TJ surgery is the highest success rate and the guy is a class A prospect.  You can't turn that down.

Heck, him being injured is the ONLY way the Indians may think about giving him up.  Score...

by JBImaknee on Jul 26, 2007 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kirkjin (sp?)
also said that Cleveland laughed their asses off...

I wonder if he actually expects to get that out of them...

"WORDS HURT WORSE THAN IF SOMEONE FROZE A SLEDGEHAMMER AND HITS YOUR CROTCH OVER AND OVER! AND IF YOU'RE A GIRL THEY JUST HIT YOU IN THE FACE!"

by miles on Jul 26, 2007 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly....
the point to this if true, is that it illustrates perhaps JD's demands are not realistic.  It's great to get a maximum return for each trade, but let's not raise the bar so high that we can't get any deals done.
I'm concerned about missed opportunities.

by kwood on Jul 26, 2007 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

trade demands
one thing I've always been told, you can't get what you don't ask for.
you never know when some gm may be ready to give up something big for a push to the playoffs. realistically he probably knew he wasn't getting miller but it doesn't hurt to ask. One thing I think JD is doing this trade deadline is trying to prove that he will and can drive a hard bargain. after all he has the pieces teams want.
Spider pig, Spider pig does whatever a spider pig does

by rentz on Jul 26, 2007 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep
you can't get Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano if you don't ask...

At the same time, if you always start at the ridiculous, some teams won't want to deal with you and when you are a seller, it is always best to have as many buyers as possible in order to extract maximum profit.

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 26, 2007 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Teams will deal with you
if they want your players.
mmmmmm...64 slices of American cheese...

by t ball on Jul 26, 2007 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

read it again
I didn't say they would not deal with you, I said they wouldn't want to. It just makes negotiation a lot tougher when the other side doesn't really want to be dealing with you.

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 26, 2007 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read it right,
but I don't see it as that ridiculous an offer since Miller has had injury problems this year and may be shut down for the year.  Some teams might sour on a player in that situation and be willing to deal him for Lofton-plus or build a bigger package that includes a reliever around Miller.

I think JD will learn who he can and should not ask for the moon from.  Other GMs do the same thing, and Kazmir for Zambrano should always be in the back of your mind.

mmmmmm...64 slices of American cheese...

by t ball on Jul 26, 2007 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed
never said it was a ridiculous offer, was just trying to make the point and I think based on your comment you would agree, you can't come in asking for the moon from every GM.

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 26, 2007 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well..
That seems very unlikely. Maybe that is what he was told by a Cleveland exec...but that dosen't mean that JD said "I want Miller for Lofton"

If Millers name did come up, it was most likely "I throw you Lofton and Gagne, you throw us Miller."

so then when Cleveland goes to Baseball Tonight, they can say,"we were try to get Lofton, and JD started talking Miller."

by clinton33 on Jul 26, 2007 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I'm JD, I use Atlanta, NY, and the Dodgers
to sell Boston on Tex and get Lester and Ellsbury from them.

Obviously if you can get Ethier and Kershaw from LAD, then that's the best deal.

I think that Lester and Ellsbury would be 2nd.

Anything the Braves can throw together is last.  I'm not sold on Salty, Andrus sounds like Arias or Drew Meyer, and they don't have any strong pitching candidates at a level of Kershaw, Hughes, or even Lester.

"Chip" first person on LSB to be berated by someone on the 25-man roster. - RangerMoto

by ortonius on Jul 26, 2007 8:55 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Miller for Lofton
Kenny's good, but I'm sorry-no team is that desperate.
Depending on how comfortable the Bosox are with the inconsistency of JD Drew, how about throwing Lofton in with Tex to sweeten that deal? He's look nice in a corner outfield slot at the top of that lineup.
sportsdeals.blogspot.com

by BudLight on Jul 26, 2007 8:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Adam, you're forgetting
the possibility that the Dodgers and Braves may try to wrest Teixeira from the Rangers and then use Loney/Salty to acquire someone else.  Both teams might want a starter, and now Lowe has a groin issue.  Still, it seems crazy for them to try to get someone as big as Teixiera without giving up their biggest trade chip(s) in return.  

I wonder what the Indians consider too much.  Lofgren?  Cabrera?

mmmmmm...64 slices of American cheese...

by t ball on Jul 26, 2007 9:03 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The problem with that
is that the Braves don't have enough to get a Tex deal done unless they include Salty. They'd have to send us like 12 players.

But that's a very interesting theory on the Dodgers part... Trade some OF's and minor league pitching for Tex, then spin Loney in a separate deal for a pitcher.

Gas, brake, honk. Gas, brake, honk. Honk, honk, punch. Gas, gas, gas.

by thedirkatron on Jul 26, 2007 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with that
Braves don't have enough to get a Tex deal done if they include Salty.

by Longhorn on Jul 26, 2007 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think
you have unrealistic expectations, and I think you're underestimating Saltalamacchia.  The guy is playing passably well in the majors at 22.  His bat projects average for a 1B and super for a catcher.  Where is the problem?  Plus the Rangers could flip him for a Snell, very cool, or keep him and flip Laird for a prospect this winter.  Lots of options.
mmmmmm...64 slices of American cheese...

by t ball on Jul 26, 2007 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed, and
What does Loney's bat project to as a 1B? Average at best. The guy projects to hit 20-25 HR with a .300 average. Not bad, but not impressive for a 1B.

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 26, 2007 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Loney
His upside is Mark Grace/John Olerud.
"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on Jul 26, 2007 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

bingo
which I think is average for a 1B... I'd prefer Saltalamacchia's upside.

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 26, 2007 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe this will help
i never said i think salty will suck, just that there it not much there in an ATL trade...The other prospects are not quality prospects at all IMO.

I'd do a Salty, Elbert, Meloan trade if they all were in the same system...

by Longhorn on Jul 26, 2007 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the Miller for Lofton talks
why not throw in Benoit or another reliever to get Miller?

by Nichols22 on Jul 26, 2007 9:04 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the more i think about it
the more i hope its the red sox or dodgers instead of the braves

by kumar75150 on Jul 26, 2007 9:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Loney
the Dodgers did have him playing OF in AAA a little bit at the start of the season when they were still uncertain about Ethier and Gonzo - not sure how it worked out - maybe they think he could get by in the OF with Teix at 1B?

by simplesimon on Jul 26, 2007 9:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Loney in the OF
My Dodger-fan buddy watched him play a game in the OF this year, and he said that Loney looked confused and disoriented there.  He said that he's convinced that he'd injure himself if he played OF for long...

by JBImaknee on Jul 26, 2007 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aww
Other teams are mad because JD actually expects fair value for a top player.

I was reading on a Braves board last night that a bunch of their fans think Salty for Tex straight up is fair value. Ummm, no.

"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on Jul 26, 2007 9:27 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well,
Other than the local reports, every analysis I've heard is saying the same thing....that JD's demands are unrealistic and unless he comes down, a trade won't be made.
Keep in mind that Teixeira is a Boras client who is free to run after next year.

by kwood on Jul 26, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tex
He'll still be under control for two months plus all of next year for whoever trades for him. I think that's worth more than a handful of B/C prospects.
"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on Jul 26, 2007 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"unrealistic"
I'm sure Kevin Towers thinks JD is a realistic guy and easy to work out a deal with. You really want the rest of the league to have that same opinion?

by Strekos on Jul 26, 2007 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course not....
the last thing I hanker to see is us getting hosed on a failed trade. This is JD's fear as well and it should be.....but the next thing I'd hate to see is no trade at all.  
  If we ride this out with no trades at all, and the general consensus was that our demands were too steep and not commensurate to our offer, then I suspect that JD has failed again as a GM and I'll be left to will question his ability to gauge and evaluate trade proposals.

Consider how highly everyone here values Teixeira.  Don't other GM's feel the same way and if so, why wouldn't there be appropriate offers for Tex....and if not, why not???

by kwood on Jul 26, 2007 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

trades
the more i think about it, the more i don't like the idea of the braves. salty is good, but HOW good?
and I'm not overly impressed with any other names being linked in trade talks with them. I keep reading reports that people are down on jojo and elvis.

I'd like a deal with boston or the dodgers, both teams have more of what the rangers need.

Spider pig, Spider pig does whatever a spider pig does

by rentz on Jul 26, 2007 9:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yes yes
comeover to the right side my friends. NO ATL trades...

by Longhorn on Jul 26, 2007 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the ATL deal would be bad
If we could flip Salty for Snell.

by hiafex on Jul 26, 2007 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does anyone think that it's possible
To get Joba Chamberlain for Eric Gagne?

Isn't there some form of draft pick compensation if we lose Gagne to free agency this year?

by hiafex on Jul 26, 2007 9:52 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

joba
If the rangers cant get the yanks to discuss joba in a deal involving teix why would they give him up for gagne?
Spider pig, Spider pig does whatever a spider pig does

by rentz on Jul 26, 2007 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because
The Yankees need more relief help than a first baseman.

by hiafex on Jul 26, 2007 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea
but the yankees are on gagne's list of no trades. So he would have to approve a trade to them, and with rivera blocking the closer spot i dont think he would.

by Lonerangers on Jul 26, 2007 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

why is there doubt about Salty?
I am starting see alot of people down on Salty?

He has long been considered one of the best offensive prospects in baseball. He was ranked 36 in BA's top 100....ahead of James Loney(44), John Danks(56) and Eric Hurley(68).

The only thing I can come up with was he wasn't that good in AA in 2006, however BA attributes this to his wrist injury:

From BA:

"36 JARROD SALTALAMACCHIA, c, Braves
Wrist injury led to an off year in 2006, but he's still the game's best catching prospect"

In A he batted .319/.394/.913 with 19 Hrs.
in AA when injured was .230/.353/.733 with 9 Hrs
this year in AA .309/.404/1.021 in 81 at bats before being brought up to the Braves.

in his first taste in the majors he is: .284/.333/.744 in 141 at bats.

I think he is going to be a pretty good ML player.

by clinton33 on Jul 26, 2007 9:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

salty
I think he's good, I'm just starting to come around to the thinking that he shouldn't be the only good part of a deal and it's looking to me like atlanta would be sending him and not a whole lot else back.
Spider pig, Spider pig does whatever a spider pig does

by rentz on Jul 26, 2007 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

doubts about Salty
  1. If John Schuerholz doesn't want to hang onto him, he must be overrated.  The guy GM'd a franchise that won it's division 14 years in a row.  He made this kind of trade in that period over and over again -- ditching overrated Braves prospects for better major league talent.
  2. He's a catcher.  Not a first baseman.  His offensive and defensive value is as a catcher.  The catcher position is one of the strongest in the Texas farm system.  Why would we trade our best player for a catcher?  
  3. He's not a pitcher.  We better get good pitching back for Tex in a trade, or JD deserves to be run out of town.  There are 5 pitchers in our system better than Jo-Jo Reyes.  The guy has walked 4-5 guys per 9 throughout his professional career.

by LukeR on Jul 26, 2007 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Catchers
However, the catchers in the Rangers' system are all in the lower minors. I wouldn't expect Teagarden up for at least a couple of more years and I think Salty will be better.

Laird is showing what he is... a good, defensive back-up catcher.

by Redcaps on Jul 26, 2007 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Salty
Okay, I happened to be in favor of either deal.  However, in your response to your points.
  1. The reason that he is expendable.  a) They have Brian McCann for a long time as a catcher. b) They are getting a guy that is great right now to play 1B.  They believe that Teix gives them the better chance to win this year and next.  Salt is only 22.
  2. His bat plays at 1B.  His bat really plays at catcher.  Laird is a backup.  Tea is in A ball.  If (IF!!!) he is the real deal, he will arive in a couple of years.  By that time, Salt will have established himself as a hitter in the big leagues enough to move to 1B.  If not you still have a big time catcher.
  3. You are right, there needs to be a pitcher involved, but this team needs a big time bat in return for Teix.  We don't have any without him and don't really have any close to the big leagues in the system.  Our rotation now has shown for more than a month and a half that they can be more than servicable.  This awful lineup has to be improved in order for the Rangers to contend.

by badradiorules on Jul 26, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the lineup
You are right, the lineup is a lot better with Tex.  So don't trade Tex - keep him for his contract year in '08, and trade him this time next year if the team is tanking.  

If the rotation is more than serviceable, as you say, the team will compete in '08... unless they go into rebuilding mode.  If they win in '08, they may be able to sign Tex anyway.

Other GM's seem to be able to trade rental players for good return.  Why can't JD do that next year with Tex?

The lineup is also a lot better with Kinsler and Blalock in it.  The lineup looks bad now because of injuries.

Laird is getting knee-jerked this year.  He's hit a lot better since April.  The same people who clamored to have him play ahead of Barajas have given up on him now.

by LukeR on Jul 26, 2007 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

snow ball's chance in hell
I'm sorry...the Rangers could surprise and go to the playoffs, hell even win a series, and there's still no way Tex re-signs here.
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 26, 2007 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Contenders next year???
maybe, but highly doubtful.  What's the more tradeable commodity.  Teixera, a Boras client with a season and 3 months before free agency, or Teixeira, a Boras client with 3 months left before free agency?
If we carry him to this point next year, don't expect any trade offers that will pack a punch.

by kwood on Jul 26, 2007 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You think its bad this year...
IF JD waits until next year all we will here is "3 month rental"

He is in the middle of a deal for the #36(Salty) and the #65(Andrus) prospects in all of baseball. I don't consider that terrible.

Pitching. What pitcher has been mentioned (by someone other than Grant) as available for Tex?

Lester?
?

Problem is people are hanging on to their pitchers....the best prospects we will get is position players, and then maybe we can add a pitcher with upside to a deal.

by clinton33 on Jul 26, 2007 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

RE:
You are right, this lineup looks a lot better with Kinsler and Blalock in the lineup but it is still missing 3-4-5
  1. acquired center fielder
  2. MY - quality 2 hole
  3. ?/Salt/RF/1B
  4. ?/Salt/RF/1B
  5. ?/Botts maybe
  6. Blalock - career OPS+ 100
  7. Kinsler - career OPS+ 102, but may improve
  8. Cat/Byrd - Byrd comes back to earth as platoon player
  9. Laird/RF
And for Laird May OPS+ 96; June OPS+ 71; July OPS+ 84.  

Better, but still not very good.  His "hot month" isn't even league average.  If we get a big time right fielder and a big time 1B you can live with that at the bottom of the order.  However, if our lineup is anything similar to what it is now, you can't live with that.  

by badradiorules on Jul 26, 2007 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

with a minor tweak
This looks pretty good:

1 Lofton/acquired center fielder
2 MY
3 Cat
4 Tex
5 Botts
6 Blalock
7 Kinsler
8 Byrd
9 Laird

by LukeR on Jul 26, 2007 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very passable
except for the 3 hole.  I hope that is a misprint.  If you can swing a Dunn/Fukudome/resurrected Cruz/somebody else in that spot that plays right field and would play at an All-Star level, I would like that lineup.

We could contend with that lineup and our current pitching staff.  

by badradiorules on Jul 26, 2007 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that is the '08 lineup without a Tex trade
And I agree, it can contend.

Regarding Cat --

Players sometimes play below their career averages.   About half the time, actually.

Cat has hit well and got on base all his career.

He's also hit a lot better since April.  

He's another guy getting kneejerked by the board.  

by LukeR on Jul 26, 2007 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's also a guy
that has never been a 3 hole in any lineup.  Pretty much only fits at 2 (MY) or 8 or 9.  

Career line: .294/.359/.451 OPS+ 108.  I don't think that it is out of the realm of possibility to think that he could return to at least close to that next year.  That's why I would platoon him with Byrd in LF in the 8 hole.

We better get a lot more than that out of the 3 hole, though.  Especially if you are going to win games at RBiA.

by badradiorules on Jul 26, 2007 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cat's monthly splits
April    .140/.234/.333    OPS .567 57 ABs
May    .280/.400/.560    OPS .960 25 ABs
June    .246/.313/.410    OPS .723 61 ABs
July    .304/.353/.391    OPS .744 46 ABs

Considering he has limited at best defensive value due to no arm, and limited speed, and considering all but 6 ABs are against righties, he hasn't been very good even recently.

If you look at his most comparable hitters in PECOTA and baseball reference, there are a whole lot of people whose careers petered out at a relatively young age.

by DJCahill on Jul 26, 2007 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cat
I don't think he's worthless, but the numbers make it painfully obvious he sure as hell isn't a #3 hitter.  Unfortunately, if he really is in a precipitous decline phase, the Rangers will probably continue their history and hang on to him forever while it's painfully obvious he's lost it.
mmmmmm...64 slices of American cheese...

by t ball on Jul 26, 2007 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

allright, swap him and MY
I agree he's not a #3.

The point I was trying to make was not exactly what lineup we'd have in '08, but rather that it would be pretty easy to put together a competitive one -- with the pieces we already have in the organization.

Which begs the whole point of trading Tex.  I don't want to go into '08 knowing the team doesn't have the pieces to compete.  That just sucks. SUCKS.  Particularly if we don't have to do that.

The whole idea of trading Tex is a form of mass insanity*, just like the idea of trading Gagne was (though people seem to have backed off that, after AJM and Newberg both came out and said we should keep him).

*mass insanity:  a condition in which most of the rest of LSB, except Sharkey and NYCMuscleFag, do not agree with me.  The insanity in such cases is truly massive, because it probably includes me.

by LukeR on Jul 26, 2007 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As far as gagne goes
if he is not willing to do a midseason extension, I can't imagine why we wouldn't trade him.

by DJCahill on Jul 26, 2007 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

DJCahill you are a nattering nabob
of negativism.

And I mean that in the best possible way. I'm sure you're a great guy.  I know you are trying to be a realist.  But the world doesn't always get worse, and players don't always underperform, and one of these days Texas will win a playoff series.  

When it happens, the team will have exceeded expectations that year, because... we all expect them to lose.  Every damn year.

Hopefully it happens before you and I die.

by LukeR on Jul 26, 2007 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Explain to me
why we should count on Gagne to extend his contract with the Rangers, if he is unwilling to extend it in midseason?

The logic baffles me.  If we can't negotiate an extension right now, I don't think it gets any easier in the offseason when free agency is just days away.

I still say, extend him, or trade him.  If he is going to be a part of the future plans of the Rangers, make the contract happen.

by DJCahill on Jul 26, 2007 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a good answer to this
but the margin is too small to contain it.

I think JD starts talking extension with Gagne after the trade deadline, if he's still here.  It would be inappropriate to start those talks before the deadline.

by LukeR on Jul 26, 2007 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If that is the plan
he is a freaking idiot.

It is not inappropriate to start extension talks anytime they mutually agree to do so.  

My money is on Gagne entering the free agent market, as the vast majority of Boras's clients do.

I remember an earlier absurd fantasy piece years ago by Newberg on how Teixeira was going to re-sign with the Rangers because he was in charge of the negotiations and not Boras, but I'll believe it when I see it.  The vast majority of Boras's clients who can enrich themselves on the free agent market do so.

If you can make a trade better than the draft picks you will get for Gagne, you do it, because most likely he isn't coming back.  If he is, you can negotiate it now.  To do anything else would be just another bad move by JD.

by DJCahill on Jul 26, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

MY
is not a 3 hole either.  He was the best option earlier in the year, but this is a bad lineup with him at the 3 hole.

by badradiorules on Jul 27, 2007 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

atlanta being abuzz with Tex talk
so, are the Braves players discussing Tex in whispers behind Salty's back and then when Salty comes over they start talking about the weather?  Or is Salty that much in denial?
Forget Johnny Bench, we got Gerry "the Jet" Laird

by ab03 on Jul 26, 2007 10:09 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

haha
what about the Rangers...do you think they're all, "...shhh, here he comes...hey Mark, the summer heat's not really been that bad this year, what'dya think?"
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 26, 2007 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

honestly
i would guess (without knowing anything about the situation) that very few want a deal to be done in the Rangers clubhouse.  They are all friends, they are playing well, and I think they think that they can sustain production into next year.  

I especially think that some of them will be scratching their heads if pitching doesn't come back in a Tex deal, wonedering why they wouldn't have just extended Tex if they are worried about offense.

Forget Johnny Bench, we got Gerry "the Jet" Laird

by ab03 on Jul 26, 2007 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reliever.
If we happen to trade a reliever along with Tex I will throw up.  I have no problem sending Ron Mahay - as he is a FA at years end.  But Benoit?  He is finally living up to the hype, the dude is filthy.  If it wasn't for our bullpen this team would be 30 games under five hundred.  CJ Wilson is fast becoming my favorite Ranger.  Many see him as a closer of the future.  A young left-handed stud who throws 96 and you control contract wise for multiple years?  I'm not saying anyone is untouchable, but that is a valuable, valuable, commodity.  A very young, good, and  CHEAP - pitcher.  Don't do it JD.  If Tex and Mahay - I can stomach that.  But not my boy CJ!!!!

by JB on Jul 26, 2007 10:20 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah
I agree, I'm perfectly fine including Mahay as he's a lefty specialist (which the braves reportedly want) and he's a free agent next year. Deal CJ is where I'd draw the line, and I said this in another thread... I'd not because he is kind enough to come here and post or that he is so accessible, it's that he is a talented young left handed pitcher who has the ability to make hitters look silly and he is under team control for several years.

Dealing Tex and CJ to atlanta is 2 steps back.

Spider pig, Spider pig does whatever a spider pig does

by rentz on Jul 26, 2007 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

CJ is ridiculous
with Kinsler definitely my favorite Ranger.  the dude's got talent and he's putting it all together this year.  NO WAY we trade him.
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 26, 2007 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Braves fan's
On another baseball board a braves fan responded to the prospect of giving up salty,jojo and elvis for teix.

the response was basically this:
"gosh i hope thats not true thats WAY too much to give up for tiex" and went on to talk about how much of a stud jojo is and how elvis is a future superstar

Spider pig, Spider pig does whatever a spider pig does

by rentz on Jul 26, 2007 10:21 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I've read a lot of that. too.
Respond with this... Would you guys send us Chipper for Teagarden, Arias, and Volquez?  I bet they wouldn't do that now, let alone when he was 27.
Obviously you're not a golfer.

by chief on Jul 26, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well
teagarden isn't exactly the right comp.  but its a good point.
Forget Johnny Bench, we got Gerry "the Jet" Laird

by ab03 on Jul 26, 2007 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

re: Braves fans
This doesn't surprise me at all...

I remember a couple of years ago when braves fans were discussing a possible Teixeira deal, someone mentioned a Teixeira for Marte deal straight up. They all laughed about what a rippoff that would be for they braves, and about how much better Marte was already   (he was ripping it up in AA at the time).

That alone is enough reason for me to want more than one big prospect back for Teixeira...

by jcir454 on Jul 26, 2007 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meh @ JD if he turns down a decent offer for kenny
kenny was a very nice pickup that has performed well and looks to still be going just fine.

but a real couple of months for byrd in center is something the rangers need to see, and as much as I like lofton it probably wouldnt hurt the team that much for the remainder of the year anyway.

now obviously i understand we have no idea whats going on, he may have just started high and have the full intention of accepting something smaller.

and at the same time, i dont think kenny should just be given away for NOTHING either.

but yeah. if the indians make a reasonable offer i think JD should go for it

and please dont trade BGL =(

by DSheppard on Jul 26, 2007 10:24 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This....
is exactly right.  Let's not lose everyone to the attrition of age or free agency and have nothing to show for it.

Byrd needs lots of playing time in center.  From what I've seen of his defense, I'm pretty skeptical he can handle it.  IMO, he has the glove of a corner OF and the bat of a CF.  Hope I'm wrong.

by kwood on Jul 26, 2007 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Norm on Salty
He says he can see him being as productive as Tex within a year and a half. I had no idea he had that kind of projected upside.
sportsdeals.blogspot.com

by BudLight on Jul 26, 2007 10:34 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

well
Norm tends to over-rate prospects a bit... I think Salty will be very good, but I do not anticipate him having peak years like Teixeira's 2005 (maybe one career year like that), but I think he will match Teixeira's 2006 in his peak years.

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 26, 2007 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lofton
I think Cleveland owes us a pretty good prospect in return for Lofton...make the Hafner steal a wash, you know.

besides, what's JD gonna do, go straight for what he's really after in a trade offer?  Say Cleveland comes to him and says, "hey, what'll it take to get Lofton?"  JD says, "Well, we're really interested in Miller..."  Cleveland can be pissed off all they want about that, it's good negotiation.  Cause 2 days down the road, they offer somebody other than Miller but with high value for us, somebody that if we asked for initially, they probably wouldn't have given, and we jump on that deal.  Make 'em sweat it out, you know.  Always aim high and then work your way towards the middle.  And yes, there's always the chance of Zambrano for Kazmir...if only we were so lucky

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 26, 2007 11:20 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah
reminds me some of moneyball and billy beane. You ask for what you want get knowing they may "come down" to what you really want.
Spider pig, Spider pig does whatever a spider pig does

by rentz on Jul 26, 2007 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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