So
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2007 3:53 PM CDT
in News
46 comments
Here we are. And barring some late deal involving Joaquin Benoit or Gerald Laird, the dust appears to be settling and we know what the Rangers have now.
The Rangers have added, in the past few days:
Jarrod Saltalamacchia
Kason Gabbard
David Murphy
Matt Harrison
Max Ramirez
Elvis Andrus
Beau Jones
Neftali Feliz
Engel Beltre
That's a pretty nice haul.
And there's an interesting set of groupings there...Saltalamacchia is on a level on his own, followed by three relatively low-ceiling but close to ready prospects, an interesting, higher-ceiling catching prospect, and then 4 very young, very high ceiling guys.
Jones and Feliz are similar in that they are young power arms who only have one pitch right now, but can really bring that one pitch.
But the thing that really jumps out at me is that you can see Daniels' organizational philosophy developing.
He makes an effort to gather the young, toolsy up-the-middle guys (Borbon, Paisano, Andrus, Beltre). He hoards catchers (Ramirez, Tracy, Laird, Saltalamacchia, Killian, Stewart). He likes the power arms (Feliz, Jones, Mendoza, Galarraga).
And the thing is, with most of these guys (Saltalamacchia and Borbon being the notable exceptions), he's bought low on these guys. He picks them up as throw-ins, as the extra guys on these deals.
But the thing to keep in mind about all three categories I just listed is that those are the types of players that other teams covet in trade talks. If you want to make a deal for a major leaguer, having power arms and toolsy guys to dangle helps get a deal done.
And power arms and toolsy guys are the minor leaguers that turn into the impact players, the superstars down the road.
Daniels isn't going to Jim Bowden route, steering exclusively to the tools goofs and ignoring guys who can play baseball.
But he seems to be putting together a minor league system that has a nice variety of players, a good mix of the high-ceiling big-upside guys that are attractive trade chips, and the lower-ceiling but more reliable guys who can help fill holes on the major league level.
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And...
by RangerMoto on Jul 31, 2007 3:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
impressed
by weslyenkid01 on Jul 31, 2007 3:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Awesome haul by JD!!!!
by erikj07 on Jul 31, 2007 3:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Overall
Also, I have to say that this was as much a learning process for JD as it was a "career-defining" deadline. Hopefully, he now has a better understanding of who to slow-play and who to deal quickly.
by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 3:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2007 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
got a question for you?
by Lonerangers on Jul 31, 2007 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a big fan of either....
Req
by Requiem on Jul 31, 2007 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very Underwhelmed!
- What he had to do.
- Locked in his own job security, since nobody really knows what's going to happen with these deals for several years.
- Did a good job of following form.
- Stuck to the rebuilding plan.
- Did OK-to-Good with Tex; Badly with Gagne. JD wasted a HUGE Chip in the Gagne trade.
- Confirmed my belief that he's in over his head. (Cue Brian Thomas...but CJ thinks I'm hilarious!)
by Clueless on Jul 31, 2007 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
at the beginning of the season
by weslyenkid01 on Jul 31, 2007 3:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
BA's
by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2007 3:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Now we just have to see if JD will
by cgolden on Jul 31, 2007 3:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is why I defend Daniels
The ranking of the Rangers minor league system, and the reputation of Daniels have both gone from the bottom the middle third since June 1.
by t ball on Jul 31, 2007 4:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Michael Bowden
by ab03 on Jul 31, 2007 4:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously doubt
Bowden/Murphy would still be a better package than what we got, however.
by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2007 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was listening to Callis on Galloway
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2007 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
his numbers
by ab03 on Jul 31, 2007 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if this 17 year old
by weslyenkid01 on Jul 31, 2007 4:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Beltre, Murphy
by t ball on Jul 31, 2007 4:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's nice
by ab03 on Jul 31, 2007 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah..
by corbsclinton on Jul 31, 2007 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking about the depth of trade chips
Guys who are FA after the 2008 season:
Santana, Sheets, Sabathia, Vlad, Penny, Teixeira, Pedro, Delgado, Furcal, Fuentes, Garland, Mussina, Lowe, Lidge, Varitek, Burrell, Oliver Perez, and BoSox have a team option on ManRam.
by rooster on Jul 31, 2007 4:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
winter trade chips
by t ball on Jul 31, 2007 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AJM we were thinking exactly the same wave length
I feel that Beltre was a guy JD and AJ had their eye on. He was the 2nd rated Dominican kid last year thats a top 10 pick in a draft. its a good deal.
this is a little off. but:
AZL:
Engel Beltre
Michael Main
Wilmer Font
Cristian Santana
Emmanuel Solis
Miguel Velazquez
NOR:
Fabio Castillo
Jacob Brigham
Keisuke Ueno <<<< i like this kid. we stole him from japan like 2 seasons ago, not sure how.
Johan Yan
Eric Fry
Neftali Feliz
MID:
Beau Jones
Kasey Kiker
Zachary Phillips
Omar Poveda
Manuel Pina
Marcus Lemon
K.C. Herren
David Paisano
CAL:
Elvis Andrus
John Whittleman
Max Ramirez
can you see the latin influence? i like that part a lot. i cant think of the last time the rangers system was as stocked with high tier talent in the lower parts of the system like currently. plus now u gotta let it ride for a few seasons just to see how JD plays it out.
Also i like how JD seems to be laying out like a 5-10 year plan now towards building a healthy and very strong farm and latin system and a perennial contender over a span of a decade from the ground up. Im not sure hicks give him that kinda leash but as a fan i love it. That takes guts and its a smart decision longterm. it makes it real hard to fire a guy half way through his plan. i just love his drafts that he has been in charge of, very well done. the 1 year signings? very well done.
i think we can see what JD is doing and what he covets now. and i like what im seeing.
by Jayslick on Jul 31, 2007 4:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Latin influence
by ab03 on Jul 31, 2007 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like all of it.
Gagne trade: Think of this return relative to the two draft picks we'd get (probably around #30 and #45 for Gagne). This Beltre kid appears to have high projection first round talent, but he is so far off that he's basically as risky as a draft pick.
Murphy and Gaddard aren't studs, but if a supplemental first round pick turned into them you wouldn't be horribly upset. They are the type of guys this team really needs - they are the people on the roster which keep you from having to fill up spots for a JHJ and a Jamey Wright. They won't be stars, but they will be contributors, and they are young enough that you can move them to and from the minors when necessary. The ideal fifth starter is one who has options so you don't have to worry about sliding him through waivers when you go through a period when you don't need him.
I'd rather fill the roster out with 24/25 year old guys who probably are near their ceiling than 30 year old guys who are already at theirs.
by JBImaknee on Jul 31, 2007 4:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Re:
Gagne: Disagree completely. Basically, this deal hinges on Beltre, because Murphy and Gabbard won't affect any playoff aspirations that the Rangers have. Gabbard's UPSIDE is likely a 4th/5th starter. Murphy's UPSIDE is a mediocre CF. And there's not even a solid guarantee that they'll even be useable on the major league roster.
Combine with the fact that we're likely not going to compete in 2008, and there's no point in trading for them. Might as well have taken the, at WORST, type B compensation for Gagne....
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by Requiem on Jul 31, 2007 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
role players
A week ago it looked like there would be few relievers available, but today there were suddenly a bunch in the rumor mill. And some of the teams in the market had other options internally. NY is planning on Chamberlain later this year, and Boston is really gilding the lily with Gagne. It was unrealistic to expect Gagne to bring back a ton. This trade gets a C from me, but not an F.
by t ball on Jul 31, 2007 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about....
These guys can at least be role players, and you have to have those on playoff teams, too.
I agree, but it's going to be a while before we can reasonably compete. And frankly, I question whether these guys REALLY can be role players for a playoff team.
I would rather have cheap young role players than guys like Wright or older signees that cost a couple of million dollars.
Wright was signed to a minor league contract. I really doubt he cost a million dollars let alone a couple of million.
A week ago it looked like there would be few relievers available, but today there were suddenly a bunch in the rumor mill. And some of the teams in the market had other options internally.
That is true. So, maybe JD should have focused a little more on trading Gagne. Or maybe he shouldn't have pushed away all his other options....
NY is planning on Chamberlain later this year, and Boston is really gilding the lily with Gagne.
Hmmm, I had to look up what gilding the lily meant. I'm still not sure what you mean by it as the definition is:
To adorn unnecessarily something already beautiful.
2. To make superfluous additions to what is already complete.
When you're on a playoff run, you can always have better relievers. And adding a top-quality closer as a set-up man is EXACTLY what you should be doing to upgrade your pen. Especially since Timlin has become really bad of late.
It was unrealistic to expect Gagne to bring back a ton. This trade gets a C from me, but not an F.
That is true, it's unrealistic for Gagne to bring back a ton. OTOH, I'd expect more than fodder for him.
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by Requiem on Jul 31, 2007 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where I'd disagree
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2007 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he were in doing really well in Rk league....
As is, no, I'd rather have a compensation pick....
But then again, I've always overvalued stats over "potential."
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by Requiem on Jul 31, 2007 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre
It's not uncommon for Dominican guys to struggle in their first year of stateside ball. If Beltre was good enough to get a $500K bonus from the Sox, and is playing in rookie ball at 17, that tells me he's got something.
He could turn out to be nothing; he could turn out to be Juan Gonzalez. I'm happy to have him.
by RCCook on Jul 31, 2007 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
17yo playing rookie ball....
Sure he's got something, and he's got POTENTIAL.
The problem is that POTENTIAL is so far away, that it's almost like rolling the dice with him. And it's unlike the draft in that we could have paid a little bit more than what the Red Sox bid and had him if we liked him that much.
I'm not saying that Beltre's going to be nothing. I'm just saying I'd rather have a compensation pick than him at this point. Or if we had liked him THAT much, I'd have rather we spent 100K more and gotten him signed.
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by Requiem on Jul 31, 2007 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OTOH
More like a D/D- one....
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by Requiem on Jul 31, 2007 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree
But I think JD did a decent job of recognizing that he had a player that didn't fit into the teams plans this year and got what he felt was the best possible return for him.
by Lonerangers on Jul 31, 2007 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre
by Brett Perryman on Jul 31, 2007 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you think
by Ed Coffin on Jul 31, 2007 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is exactly my point
For years the Rangers have been struggling even to get those guys right. You don't want to be in the position of having to make a Randy Velarde-type trade because you don't have that 4th OFer ready to go. And face it, unless you love Drew Meyer, we don't have many of those types coming up through the system right now.
Now... was 2 role players and a 17 year old high ceiling guy enough for Gagne? Ideally not. But I doubt that JD chose this offer over a Mets Philip Humber offer, or something comparable.
by JBImaknee on Jul 31, 2007 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did....
Unless you are Boston or New York, you can't fill your roster with 25 stars.
True.
You have to have guys who are able to go out there and eat innings, be an effective sub while playing solid D. These two guys fill that role.
That's the problem for me. I don't even know if they CAN fill that role. Murphy is NOT a good-fielding CF. Gabbard seems like Koronka. We have a plethora of players like this. What we DON'T have is someone who can be SOLID/MEDIOCRE position-player. Those are more important than a 4th-OF type and a 4th-5th SP upside pitcher.
For years the Rangers have been struggling even to get those guys right. You don't want to be in the position of having to make a Randy Velarde-type trade because you don't have that 4th OFer ready to go.
? Randy Velarde was our opening day starter at 2B. We traded for him because we didn't have a STARTING 2B ready to go. Same with Einar Diaz. Of course, you shouldn't even be MAKING those types of trades in the first place.
Now... was 2 role players and a 17 year old high ceiling guy enough for Gagne? Ideally not. But I doubt that JD chose this offer over a Mets Philip Humber offer, or something comparable.
OTOH, we did have an offer including Bowden.
Req
by Requiem on Jul 31, 2007 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bowden is the key
by ab03 on Jul 31, 2007 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually no,
And even if they WERE good transitional players, you can usually find these types or BETTER from the WAIVER WIRE (e.g., Cust, Bradley, etc.). You don't TRADE FOR them using the BEST RELIEVER ON THE MARKET.
Req
by Requiem on Jul 31, 2007 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Rearrange like our line up for the remainder of 07 and into 08.
by UK Ranger on Jul 31, 2007 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gagne trade
gabbard i'm kinda thinking, meh. as someone said he's probably no better than koronka.
by rentz on Jul 31, 2007 6:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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