Kiker Vs. Danks

by kevzta on Jul 6, 2007 3:01 PM CDT Comment 49 comments

I would like to get people's opinions on Kasey Kiker vs. John Danks. Who do you think will have the more productive career long term/ who has the better "stuff." Who would have benefited more from being a left-handed pitcher in Ballpark in Arlington? Also, do you think that Kiker will progress similarly to John Danks through the minors, or will he move faster or slower? Do you think that Kiker's size will pose as a serious road block in his progresssion?

Danks's Stats up to Kiker's age
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/D/john-danks.shtml
Kiker's Stats
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Kasey%2520Kiker&pos=P&sid=milb& ;t=p_pbp&pid=475561

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Way too early

to hazard a guess. Give Kiker about two more years and then we can compare him to where Danks was at that age.

by t ball on Jul 6, 2007 3:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

kiker is better

I think he will have a much better career than Danks. When I look at Danks I see Jarrod Washburn and when I look at Kiker I see Scott Kazmir.

by jrokc on Jul 6, 2007 3:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

thats about....

.. the most dead on description i've seen of the two...

fear me, i'm the voice of reason....

by ivysafety39 on Jul 6, 2007 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you hit the nail

on the head witht that, i see kazmir and say wow. i see washburn and say good thing he's lefthanded

by weslyenkid01 on Jul 6, 2007 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kazmir

As with Kazmir, with Kiker you have to worry a little about walks. Kazmir flirts with danger and so does Kiker in that regard. I hope Kiker is able to improve his walk rate as he moves up.

by t ball on Jul 6, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I need a new screen name.

I didn't realize mine was similar to yours man

by OKC Ranger Fan on Jul 6, 2007 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I noticed that

but did not think it was a big deal.

by jrokc on Jul 6, 2007 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't post much

so I don't mind it

by OKC Ranger Fan on Jul 6, 2007 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hopefully he turns into Kazmir

in our organization and not elsewhere.

by Taylor on Jul 6, 2007 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be honest

I'd be pretty happy with either a Washburn or a Kazmir.

by Brett Perryman on Jul 6, 2007 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kazmir throws a lot harder

and was a lot more advanced. Kaz got a cup of coffee at 20, and was in the bigs to stay at 21. I don't think any of us in our wildest dreams expect that out of Kiker.

Kiker is a poor man's Scott Kazmir... not that that's a bad thing.

"The boxing scenes in 'Million Dollar Baby' were so realistic, I initially thought it was a documentary." -Brian Thomas.

by thedirkatron on Jul 6, 2007 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kiker

By far.

One picture is worth 1,000 denials.

by nirvana on Jul 6, 2007 3:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Danks

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 6, 2007 3:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for elaborating

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 6, 2007 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

AJM..

Interested in why you think that. They were both drafted at about the same spot in the draft, both lefties, and without checking, its hard to imagine Danks being more impressive than Kiker through as many starts. If you go by Danks' work between then and now, that's really not a fair assessment.

by Topgun22 on Jul 6, 2007 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Danks

If I had to pick one, I'd pick Danks, but mainly because he's already done it. By that I mean, I think we'd all be happy just to see Kiker make it as far as Danks has. Not sure if Adam is thinking along the same lines...

Their stats through the same point in their career (especially in Clinton) are pretty comparable, with Danks perhaps a little better (more Ks, fewer walks).

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 6, 2007 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Assuming History Repeats

When will JD trade Kiker?
Why wouldn't he, logically speaking?

Hit me in the eye...maybe I can see better.

by Clueless on Jul 6, 2007 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not sure what you mean

I assume you are referencing Danks for McCarthy, but I think the circumstances would have to be similar for Kiker to get traded. By that I mean, McCarthy was about as highly regarded (BA's #49 overall prior to 2005 vs Danks #56 this year #59 last year) and was viewed by most as being at least a year ahead of Danks development-wise. Some scouts liked Danks better, some liked McCarthy better. If you liked them about the same then this trade was an opportunity to gain a year of advancement. These kinds of trades (good prospect for good prospect) don't happen often so it seems unlikely Kiker would end up following the exact same path as Danks.

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 6, 2007 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then history won't repeat

I was just surmising that, given the similarites of Danks and Kiker, and given that JD still stands by the Danks-McCarthy trade as a good one, and given that the prospect-for-prospect scenario is one that he likes, JD will follow his pattern and trade Kiker. Just as likely as not.

Hit me in the eye...maybe I can see better.

by Clueless on Jul 7, 2007 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

1 time is a pattern?

If the Scoot stays mute, you must commute.

by Brian Thomas on Jul 7, 2007 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If that's all you got

then Yes it is!

Hit me in the eye...maybe I can see better.

by Clueless on Jul 7, 2007 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

when?

Other than Danks for Kiker when has JD traded prospect for prospect?

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 7, 2007 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he supports the move,

which he does, and you do, then it is logically predictable that he'll follow the same path. That's a pattern! Would you say that he would act differently? Based on what?

Hit me in the eye...maybe I can see better.

by Clueless on Jul 7, 2007 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ummm, no

one time simply does not make a pattern, your argument is weak. If a trade makes sense to him he pulls the trigger, not afraid to make a deal even if it will raise eyebrows. That is his pattern.

by t ball on Jul 8, 2007 5:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Behavior

Pattern of behavior. More than once. He has a history, and that creates...OK, a tendency.
And his "pattern", as you define it, is not a good one.

Hit me in the eye...maybe I can see better.

by Clueless on Jul 8, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

prospect for prospect

my point is you just don't see many prospect for prospect trades... I'm not saying it's impossible, just highly improbable that Kiker would be sent packing for a slightly more advanced pitching prospect. Those trades just don't usually happen whether it is Daniels or anyone else.

by Brandon Wilson on Jul 8, 2007 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

More than once?

In what other deal has he given up a top prospect for another top prospect?

by t ball on Jul 8, 2007 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

age 19 in Clinton

Danks: 11.7 k/9 and 2.6 bb/9

Kiker: 11.9 k/9 and 3.5 bb/9

Interesting that Danks was promoted to high A in his age 19 season and got about 55 innings at that level. I don't think Kiker will be promoted that aggressively, I'm guessing he finishes the season in Clinton.

by tricer on Jul 6, 2007 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

fwiw

The hit and HR rates are almost identical too, very slight edges to Danks.

by Brett Perryman on Jul 6, 2007 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

That's my thinking.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 7, 2007 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If...

..someone could promise me that Kiker at age 22 could hold his own in his first major league season the way Danks has, I would be ecstatic.

by bflood36 on Jul 6, 2007 3:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

height

my only opinion on the subject is the height discussion - I don't see his lack of height as being a disadvantage at all

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 6, 2007 4:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Kiker's height

One of the main issues with shorter pitchers is projectability and kiker already has a low to mid-90s heater and two other above average pitches. The only thing that might worry is durability but he is an athletic kid with a good lower half so it really shouldn't be a problem and who knows, he could still grow a couple of inches anway.

by rangerfan09 on Jul 6, 2007 4:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

danks

i'm really getting tired of hearing about danks, though im not sure who i'm more tired of hearing about, danks or young

"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on Jul 6, 2007 4:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I am really

tired of hearing about young. cant we just get over it.

by coolaid on Jul 6, 2007 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm over Young and Danks

when JD is gone! As long as the perpetrator is here, it reminds me of the victims! Oh, wait...that's us!

Hit me in the eye...maybe I can see better.

by Clueless on Jul 6, 2007 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now that you mention it

Young, Danks, Hurley, Kiker...
World Series Contenders for the next five years!
Think about it, think, think about it!

Hit me in the eye...maybe I can see better.

by Clueless on Jul 6, 2007 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Big Assumption...

...to think that the numbers CY is putting up with the Padres would be the same numbers with the Rangers. In hindsight, it would be great if he were the ace of the Ranger staff, but does anyone really think he would have a 2.00 ERA pitching in the AL and in Arlington?

Proud Supporter of the Texas Rangers since 1973

by T Coleman on Jul 6, 2007 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Does anyone think...

...that he would not be our best pitcher?

by tricer on Jul 6, 2007 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no question

he would be the best pitcher, but theres no way he'd have the numbers he has now

"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on Jul 6, 2007 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is my point

Proud Supporter of the Texas Rangers since 1973

by T Coleman on Jul 6, 2007 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So?

He'd likely have a sub-4 ERA. That's gold in Texas.

"The boxing scenes in 'Million Dollar Baby' were so realistic, I initially thought it was a documentary." -Brian Thomas.

by thedirkatron on Jul 6, 2007 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

all i was saying is, he's no 2.00 era pitcher here.
he's greatly helped not only by his park but by the national league. but hell yes i'd reverse that trade if thats what you are getting at

"Pimps be damned, it's harder out here for a Rangers fan!" "If you don't throw strikes first, you're last."

by rentz on Jul 6, 2007 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course not

I don't remember anyone saying he would be. And, fwiw, I'm not one of those people who hangs on that trade, bitching about it whenever possible.

But sometimes it is downright depressing to think about the lineup we could have run out there last year.

CF- GMJ
LF- A-Gon
SS- FotF
1b- Tex
RF- Soriano
3b- Hank/Dero
DH- Botts
2b- Kinsler
C- Rerald Baraird

With Millwood, Young, Padilla, and Tejeda in the rotation, and CoCo closing.

I know there would have been money problems keeping Sori while still adding Milly and Padilla... but, man. That team wins the West last year, doesn't it?

"The boxing scenes in 'Million Dollar Baby' were so realistic, I initially thought it was a documentary." -Brian Thomas.

by thedirkatron on Jul 6, 2007 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe a little hafner too

by a bebop a rebop on Jul 6, 2007 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well thanks guys.....

i need to check myself into suicide watch now........FU Hart, Daniels!!!!!!!

by slash on Jul 7, 2007 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

we did get Mike Young for Loiza, and Chris Young for Einar Diaz, and Vincente Padilla for Ricardo Rodriguez, and Adrian Gonzalez for Ugueth Urbina, so we have had some good luck, too.

And for all the talk about how much it sucks that Teixeira is represented by Boras, without Boras' guiding hand, we never would have had a shot to draft big Tex at #5 in '01.

And also big thanks to Larry Walker for vetoing the trade that would have sent Kinsler to Colorado, and to Atlanta for deciding they had to have John Thomson, giving us their first round pick in '04... which became Eric Hurley.

Our luck hasn't been all bad.

"The boxing scenes in 'Million Dollar Baby' were so realistic, I initially thought it was a documentary." -Brian Thomas.

by thedirkatron on Jul 7, 2007 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs