A really good problem to have

by badradiorules on Aug 5, 2007 1:16 AM CDT Comment 22 comments

With all the high draft picks in June's draft, the return of young players in the deadline deals this season and the influx of international signings, it seems to me that the Rangers have a wonderful problem coming up next spring. Where do all these good/great arms get innings? Looking ahead this is how I see the possibilities for the rotations of Bakersfield, Clinton and even Spokane next year with their opening day age.

Bake - LHP Kasey Kiker (20), RHP Omar Poveda (20), LHP Zach Phillips (21), LHP Glen Swanson (24), LHP Broc Coffman (23), LHP Mike Ballard (23), Kyle Rogers (22)

Clinton - LHP Derek Holland (21), RHP Tommy Hunter (22), RHP Evan Reed (22), RHP Jake Brigham (20), RHP Fabio Castillo (19), RHP Michael Main (19), RHP Neftali Feliz (20)

Spokane - RHP Robert Wilkins (18), RHP Carlos Pimental (18), LHP Geuris Grullon (18), RHP Wilmer Font (17), LHP Miguel de los Santos (20), RHP Blake Beavan (19), RHP Neil Ramirez (18)

As you can see, that doesn't leave much room for the 08 draftees. And this list could be further complicated if Omar Beltre and Alexi Ogando are finally freed. The bullpen situation is equally merky.

With glaring needs at the big league level at 1b, ss(if we move MY back to 2B where he belongs), LF and CF, there a lot of guys here that could be used to make deals to fill these holes.

Those of you in the know, please let me know if some of my predicitions are off and how you expect it to shake out.

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yes

free beltre/ogando!

by knockoutking24 on Aug 5, 2007 1:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't...

Wasn't Beltre considered one of the best arms in the Rangers system a couple years ago? I wonder where he would be sent if/when he is released.

by rangeressary on Aug 5, 2007 4:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yup

why would they release him though?

FWIW ogando used to be an ok OF prospect (was selected in rule V according to http://www.letsplay2.com/baseball/profile.cfm?playerId=4350&allNews=1)

beltre and ogando both played in the pan am games if anyone cares

by knockoutking24 on Aug 5, 2007 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beltre/Ogando

I'd imagine Beltre would go straight to Frisco if his visa situation ever gets cleared up. Ogando might go to the Riders as well.

"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on Aug 5, 2007 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

visa

i just don't think the visa problems will ever get resolved. but neither of them are taking up a roster spot since they are on the restricted list.

btw, anyone know if there is a limit to the number of times a player can be placed on the list?

Spider pig, Spider pig does whatever a spider pig does

by rentz on Aug 5, 2007 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Released

I don't think he meant the Rangers would release him, I think he was using the word as a way of saying released from the Dominican Republic and allowed to enter the United States.

by uthornfan on Aug 5, 2007 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

swanson

will be on shelf in 08 due to TJ surgery. i figure kiker starts the season in clinton, with a callup in mid to late may.

kyle rogers hasn't pitched well yet above rookie ball. he would have to produce at clinton at some point first.

by mo on Aug 5, 2007 8:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

you mean kiker

will be promoted to Bakersfield? Called up, makes it seem like you think he will be brought up to the majors.

Troy I.

by tdi1985 on Aug 5, 2007 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

rebuilding year

Next season should be a rebuilding year and the last thing you would want to do in a rebuilding year is trade low minor league arms to patch holes on the big club.

That type of move can come back to haunt us in 3 years when the club is competitive and watching Aaron Harang blossom for somebody else. Improving the rotation at the big league level is a numbers game. Besides that, low minors pitching prospects (short of the rare case like Kershaw) generally don't get the best value in return.

I don't see any good reason to trade any of the arms in the system, if we are going to be dealing to fill a hole I'd say Laird, Aki, and possibly upper minors infielders are the best trade chips we've got.

Me and Billy the Kid never got along. I didn't like the way he cocked his hat and he wore his gun all wrong.

by tricer on Aug 5, 2007 1:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Not to snap at you

But isn't every year a rebuilding year. I've posted this same argument several different places the last couple of days, but here we go again.

DFW is like the 5th largest market in America. There is no excuse for this organization to rebuild. We should have plenty of money available to find one nice free agent that can help.

We need continue to be agressive in the trade market to fill a couple of the holes at different positions.

Again, there is no excuse that they shouldn't be competitive with an eye to the future. Don't mortgage everything for next year, but improve. I hate the word rebuilding. This thing has been rebuilding since 1972.

by badradiorules on Aug 5, 2007 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

market

while dallas may be the 5th best media market, i don't think dfw is the 5th best baseball market.
people in dallas are more concerned with the cowboys and now the mavs.... but all that would change with 1 playoff series win.

Spider pig, Spider pig does whatever a spider pig does

by rentz on Aug 5, 2007 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rebuilding

The problem is the Rangers never actually rebuild, they just suck. We haven't been rebuilding over the past few years. If we had been, we wouldn't have traded Chris Young and Danks. They were trying to win now, which as you know, isn't working. Teams don't win by going out and buying championships. When the Yankees won, it was when they developed their own talent. Sure, they brought in a few players like Clemens, but Jeter, Rivera, Posada and those guys were brought up through the system. As soon as they started trading away all their prospects for rental players and signing big name free agents, they started losing early in the playoffs. If we just go out and sign big money free agent after big money free agent, we end up with bad contracts and lose our draft picks, which prevents us from building a farm system. Wait a year or two, let some of the talent in our system get to the majors and then sign a free agent occasionally to supplement the talent you developed.

by uthornfan on Aug 5, 2007 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

the rangers don't rebuild... they fill holes. the rangers are one giant hole constantly being filled (though that sounds like it could be taken the wrong way doesn't it?)

Spider pig, Spider pig does whatever a spider pig does

by rentz on Aug 5, 2007 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

Just because you do stupid things to win, doesn't mean you should stop trying to do things to win.

The CY trade was just a really really stupid trade, the dumbasses actually thought that Eaton was better. Same with Danks, they think McCarthy is better (BTW don't look now, but Mac's ERA is now better than Dank's).

They just need to make better decisions. Not just hang the old rebuilding tag on 08 and hang out until the trade deadline next year.

by badradiorules on Aug 5, 2007 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We are

The Rangers are trying to do things to win. Going out and money whipping free agents isn't working. That has been the business model here for the last ten years and what has that gotten us? Instead of repeatedly banging our collective heads against the wall and continuing to do that, they apparently are now trying to build from within. It may hurt us next year, but starting in 2009 when our prospects start to arrive we should have a bright future for a 5-6 year window.

by uthornfan on Aug 5, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

I never said to go money whip a free agent. However, which team in contention right now, doesn't have a couple of high priced free agents on it.

Who of these guys are going to fill CF and LF. What about 1B? What guy other than Hurley is going to step into the rotation in the next two years. Volquez?

Okay, so we just wait until some of these younger guys are ready in 2010 when they make their debut's. So Tea is in his 2nd year, Davis maybe his first extended look, maybe Kiker is breaking in, maybe even Poveda. Whittleman will be getting his first look at the bigs. JMJ may have earned a spot by then.

Now, all of these guys are going to be going through some growing pains with most of them seeing their first significant big league playing time.

So now we sit and wait for 2011. Can't take it anymore.

by badradiorules on Aug 5, 2007 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

call it what you want

I'm just saying that trading away low minors pitchers is a horrible idea for this team.

Me and Billy the Kid never got along. I didn't like the way he cocked his hat and he wore his gun all wrong.

by tricer on Aug 5, 2007 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why

There are 21 starting pitchers in the list above. At least half of those have the stuff to make it to the bigs. Probably 5 or 6 actually will. Which ones? Who knows.

You can trade a couple of them without disturbing the system much at all. Most will have their peak values this offseason.

For every Aaron Harang that turns out great, there are 100 Matt Lorenzo's, Jim Brower's, Julian Cordero's, Jose Diaz's, et al.

So, we just hold on to all the guys and wait until 2011 to be competetive. By then 15 of them have no trade value because they have failed at higher levels.

This and catching is our greatest organizational strength right now. Why not capitalize on it and actually try to win some games this decade.

by badradiorules on Aug 5, 2007 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No telling...

which of the above list will turn out to be Colby Lewis and which will turn out to be Aaron Harang.

Keep them all and you are sure to have some improved starting pitching eventually. The more quality SP candidates at the lower levels, the better the chances of hitting on some of them, and possibly hitting it big with 1 or 2.

The trade chips that have value and can be used to improve the team over the next couple of years are Aki, Laird, and possibly some infielders.

Me and Billy the Kid never got along. I didn't like the way he cocked his hat and he wore his gun all wrong.

by tricer on Aug 5, 2007 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yea

but if you trade two or three, you still have 18 or 19 possibilities. That's still quite a few.

If you aren't going to trade those guys, you aren't going to trade anybody. I'd rather see a couple of those guys go rather than Hurley or really any of our positional prospects, since we have so few.

And if you don't trade anybody, then this thing isn't going to be any better until sometime around 2011.

by badradiorules on Aug 5, 2007 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just curious

Can you give me an example of the type of trade you are talking about?

I guess I'm wondering which 3 you would pick to trade and what you would expect to get back.

Me and Billy the Kid never got along. I didn't like the way he cocked his hat and he wore his gun all wrong.

by tricer on Aug 5, 2007 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trades

I don't really have a trade in mind, but I think out of the group of Galarraga, Poveda, Phillips, B. Jones and Brigham along with Andrus and Whittleman can answer some questions at at least two, maybe three of the following holes:

1SP, 1B, SS (throw Kinsler or Duran into that deal), LF or CF

That still leaves you with Hurley, Harrison, Kiker, Main, Feliz, Beavan, N.Ramirez, Font, Castillo, Grullon and others.

Guys that may be nice to get some with some thought put into it, some not:

1B - Josh Fields, Daric Barton, Chris Duncan
ss-Ryan Theriot
lf-Adam Lind,Matt Diaz,Rick Ankiel,
cf-Nathan Haynes, Felix Pie, David DeJesus, Ryan Church, Coco Crisp

Okay, so I started to research this list and got tired. That's an idea though of the type guys I would look for

by badradiorules on Aug 5, 2007 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs