Soriano

by jctrampe on Sep 16, 2007 3:20 PM CDT Comment 21 comments

I find it funny when Adam and his minions always bagged on Soriano during his stay in Texas have very rarely mentioned his career since leaving Arlington.

All he did in 2006 was hit .277/.351/.560 in the cavernous RFK stadium. 46 Hrs and 41 RBIs for the abysmal nationals and finished 6th in the MVP voting.

2007 with the Cubs has been up and down due to injuries but still has 527 ABs at this point in the season and his hitting .288/.327/.526 with 27 HR and 18 SBs

Adam always griped about this OBP but you cannot discount his value provided by Slugging and speed on the basepaths (the guy tries when his team actually is playing for something). Also, he would have moved to the outfield if the RAngers didn't handle the subject so poorly communication with Soriano and the media.

Enough of my rant, but given Soriano's recent big hits in Chicago, I like to remember fondly Soriano's career in Arlington. He certainly played on the best Ranger team since 1999 in the 2004 club which severely overachieved.

Just my two cents..

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they just wanted to get rid og him

Once "mission accomplished" and good players are gone, (too many to count) they rarely talk about good players who have left.

by Sharky on Sep 16, 2007 3:15 PM CDT reply actions

Well...

I don't fondly remember his glove (23 and 21 errors). His great season in Washinton was mostly due to his ability to practically double his career walk rate.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Sep 16, 2007 3:44 PM CDT reply actions

soriano

i wasnt a fan of his when he was here, i didnt like his fielding and his half assing it to first base at times.

and honestly no one could predict what he ended up doing in washington.

and yes i do think the rangers screwed the pooch by not forcing him to the outfield.

Can you please Look into getting a less funny signature? That's sarcasm, btw. - Sharky

by rentz on Sep 16, 2007 3:46 PM CDT reply actions

Screw Soriano

He had a very good last year.

But what do you want me to say about him this year? He's got a .278 EQA, is overpaid, and hasn't been able to stay healthy.

For all the bitching about Kinsler, Kinsler has been a better player than Soriano this year.

by Adam J. Morris on Sep 16, 2007 4:10 PM CDT reply actions

That's really not the debate

I'm not sure what your point is by comparing Kinsler and Soriano. I'm not sure exactly how you can make this statement with a straight face:

"For all the bitching about Kinsler, Kinsler has been a better player than Soriano this year."

I love Kinsler, but to claim that he is better than Soriano at this point is absurd and downright nutty.

Soriano is a dynamic offensive threat who you fail to appreciate no matter what he does and continue to use EQA as some sort of final word along with continuing to say he is "overpriced".

You pay for a guy like Soriano and he has proven that year after year and you fail to recognize that. And using the bad defense at 2nd card is moot at this point, becuase he would be playing a corner outfield position for Texas which is exactly what we neeed at this point.

I'm sure Soriano isn't exactly itching to leave Chicago to back to Texas as poorly as he was treated by many of the fans here just because he was the guy in return for A-rod. I'll tell you right now I would do A-Rod for Robinson Cano and Soriano back when that trade was made knowing what I know now . Too bad we ended up with Arias.

by jctrampe on Sep 16, 2007 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions

Yes

Kinsler has been better than Soriano this year.

You don't pay $17 million for a guy like Soriano, because he isn't that good, particularly for a COF. He's not a dynamic offensive threat. He's an average outfielder who is getting paid like a superstar.

by Adam J. Morris on Sep 16, 2007 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Furthermore...

In 2007:
Wilkerson - 314 ABs
Kinsler - 421 ABs
Soriano - 527 ABs

Wilkerson - .799 OPS
Kinsler - .830 OPS
Soriano - .853 OPS

Wilkerson - 20 HRs
Kinsler - 19 HRs
Soriano - 24 HRs

Wilkerson - .264 EqA
Kinsler - .283 EqA
Soriano - .278 EqA

I'd take Wilkerson and Kinsler over Soriano any day.

by rangeressary on Sep 16, 2007 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions

soriano

and the inability the rangers had in moving him can't be ignored. most people bagged on soriano as a 2b. another former rangers pain in the ass was responsible for not being able make him change positions.

Forget Johnny Bench, we got Gerry "the Jet" Laird

by ab03 on Sep 16, 2007 4:40 PM CDT reply actions

Clutch

look - Soriano had a lot of bright spots to his game, and he compiled a lot of stats...but they were empty stats...like A-Rod's on our team. He was about as non-clutch as you can be...I remember the 2004 run towards the playoffs, we faded horribly because a few of our better offensive threats (Soriano, Blalock, etc.) faded when we needed their bats most. He seemed to put the bat on the ball when we were up a ton or down a ton, but never when we were down 1 or 2 with men on, or tied late in a game. That's when he'd come up with a vintage whiff, not even putting a bat on the ball...and that's when a strikeout hurts so much.

Would I rather have Sori on this team as opposed to not having him? Yes - but I'm OK not having him as long as we get somebody in there (we did with Kinsler) who can play better defensively and provide some clutch hitting (Kinsler at least looks good in clutch at bats)

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Sep 16, 2007 4:55 PM CDT reply actions

Laughs out loud, hysterically

You're right, stats only count if the other 24 players on your team are really good.

But even then, you do have control over how the other 24 players perform and you can use your leadership and not-be-a-cancer abilities to improve the performance of your 24 teammates, something A-Rod clearly didn't do with his empty stats that caused us to lose for three consecutive years (he didn't deserve the MVP that one year because the team was really bad, and if your team is really bad, there is no way that you could be a good player, by definition), along with the "A-Rod Effect," which constitutes a metaphorical ripple effect causing the cancerous environment to linger well after departure. It's a proven fact.

Wins towards the end of the year matter more, and count more, than wins at the start of the year.

Just like when A-Rod hits a home run in the 1st inning, and strikes out in the 8th inning, it just doesn't count the same if you don't do it when the stars are aligned. If you do it when the stars are aligned, you are no longer a team cancer. You are a special, folksy, clutch, Eckstein-esque hero. A-Rod will never measure up to David Eckstein, some guys are just clutch, others aren't.

I have some gut feelings that I like to offer to the board from time to time, and they tell me who is more clutch than who in certain clutch situations.

I even have a patented clutch detector, but I will only allow you to use it sparingly, if you ask nicely.

Kinsler has that "look" of a clutch player.

/sarcasm off

"This is Baseball, it ain't Golf. If you aren't cheating in baseball, you aren't trying nearly hard enough to win." - DJCahill

by inactive lsb user on Sep 16, 2007 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions

Don't forget

Scott "Lumpy" Brosius, 3B extraordinaire

by bushe on Sep 16, 2007 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions

OK, I can battle sarcasm defending Soriano

with stats -

2005
On the road, he hit .224, .265 OBP, .639 OPS, 11 HR and 31 RBI in 326 at bats hitting mostly out of the # 5 spot, which is by all accounts supposed to be pretty clutch. .224 is a bad average but the split is somewhat excuseable, but a .265 OBP? for your #5 hitter??? that is horrible

with nobody on, Soriano hit .292 with a .340 OBP; meanwhile, with men in scoring position, he hit. 235 with a .275 OBP and in 16 at bats with a man on third, he hit .188 with an OBP of .188. That is horrible clutch situational hitting for a #5 hitter. Let's put it this way - Brad Wilkerson, everybody's favorite goat around here, hit .282 this year with runners on with a .346 OBP in 142 at bats, and he hit .278 with a .435 OBP in the #5 slot this year

the biggest reason I wanted to get rid of Soriano was because like I said he wasn't clutch, and I think I just proved how ineffective he was in clutch hitting in 2005...maybe I should've added that he disappeared at the end of the year as well, as in September he hit .200 with a .267 OBP. and yes, I feel it is more important to finish strong than it is to start strong, if I had my choice between one or the other

2004
he hit .244, .291 OBP, .735 OPS, 16 HR and 44 RBI in 315 at bats in mostly the # 3 spot, which is usually the most vital hitting position in a MLB roster (should indeed be clutch)

in 2004, Soriano hit better with runners on (.300, .345 OBP) than he did with nobody on (.265, .308 OBP), but he faded down the stretch - hit .289, .330 OBP before the ASB and .266, .314 OBP after

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Sep 17, 2007 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions

For your next analysis

Would you care to enlighten us how A-Rod's stats were "empty"?

Re: Soriano -- you can selectively hand pick and choose stats and take them out of context all you want, but the whole "clutch" bit is out of control. I don't understand the obsession with timing. Production is production, don't really care so much when it happens. If A-Rod goes 2-4 with two HR's in the beginning of the game, but for his 5th at bat in the 10th inning when he strikes out with the game on the line, is it his fault that they lost? Or the pitchers fault who gave up more runs after A-Rod already gave them the lead early in the game?

You can't say because Soriano had a bad OBP in one batting order spot, over a small sample, in this one year, that he isn't clutch? Wtf? Wouldn't you want a high SLG% out of your #5 hitter? I'm not sure why you chose OBP (which is very important), but more relevant for top of the order guys.

"This is Baseball, it ain't Golf. If you aren't cheating in baseball, you aren't trying nearly hard enough to win." - DJCahill

by inactive lsb user on Sep 17, 2007 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions

A-rod

I don't need to go too deep into A-rod...I've already said he's hands down the best player in the game right now...but in the last two postseasons with the Yankees, he's hit a combined .103 with .136 slugging and .284 OBP, 0 RBI and 2 runs scored. That's a fat goose egg of production from the highest paid player in baseball when his team needed him most

Soriano had a horrible OBP PERIOD when he played for us. I didn't pick and choose, and over his career...go ahead and call his career a small sample size...he's at .326 OBP, and in his last year for us, it was .309...a mere percentage point higher than Sosa's for us this year. As a matter of fact, you could take Sosa's stats run out to 600 at bat total averages this year and match him up to a lot of Soriano's 2005 stats and Sosa comes in as a bargain. So while that may be one year for Sosa and one year for Soriano, combine his "empty stats" in MY mind with his lack of defense at 2B and unwillingness to switch to the OF for us and I think it's a tossup. No big loss in my book. We replaced him with a better long-term potential defender at 2B that can put up close to the same amount of offense in some categories and much better production in others (OBP), and we still have the same problem: we lack a plus hitter in the outfield

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Sep 17, 2007 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Also

I find it funny when Adam and his minions always bagged on Soriano during his stay in Texas have very rarely mentioned his career since leaving Arlington.

Why is it funny? Am I supposed to provide game-by-game updates of former Rangers?

Soriano hasn't been all that great this year. If I'm some rabid anti-Soriano type, like you suggest, I'd be talking about him all the time right now.

by Adam J. Morris on Sep 16, 2007 7:51 PM CDT reply actions

sorry AJM isnt more like hurley hurley

who used to post updates on danks/chris young/adrian gonzalez ...until danks started sucking it up and a-gon faded for a bit and cy got hurt

fwiw:
danks this year: 84 ERA+ and 28 HR allowed
mccarthy this year: 92 era+ and 9 HR allowed

and just a question, but is there someone who pitches better at home than cy? (its a reflection on him - not bashing him)

ill admit, i thought he was gonna end up a spare - i was wrong there though lol

"Who is Karim Garcia?" -- Pedro Martinez

by knockoutking24 on Sep 17, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions

2 things

"The guy tries when his team actually is playing for something".

What a ringing endorsement for a player.

On the flip side....

"He certainly played on the best Ranger team since 1999 in the 2004 club which severely overachieved."

2004 was probably Soriano's worst year in the big leagues and he severly UNDERachieved. Hell, maybe if he had played up to the ability you seem to think he has then the Rangers might have won that pennant.

by Chris Martin on Sep 16, 2007 8:36 PM CDT reply actions