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Around SBN: Champions League Preview with Jimmy Conrad

A brief follow-up on last night's Sosa post

Wow.  Didn't expect as much as a response as last night's post got (particularly on a Saturday night in a holiday weekend).  And there's some discussion on the post over at BTF, in case you are interested.

A couple of things I wanted to clarify...

  1.  One of the posters at BTF was critical of me for not clarifying whether I'm a "large hall" or "small hall" proponent (with another poster predicting I've never heard of those terms).  I tend a little more towards the "small hall," although in this case, I'm just trying to evaluate whether Sosa deserves to be in, based on his performance compared to the performance of the HOFers the BBWAA has voted in, and the top candidates who have been excluded.
  2.  There were numerous criticisms of the Keltner Test, and in particular, the subjective nature of several categories and the difficulty in attaining certain of the goals set out in the test.  I don't disagree with those criticisms...however, as I mentioned last night, this is simply the first in a multi-part series looking at Sosa's qualifications, and I felt it was a useful jumping off point for the first post.
  3.  There were several posts along the lines of, "He has 600 homers.  He's getting in."  Again, my objective is not to guess what the BBWAA will do, but evaluate whether he deserves to be in.
  4.  How do I determine whether a player deserves to be in?  I look at how good the player was, throughout his career, and compare him to those that the BBWAA has inducted and the top candidates who have been denied induction.  I'm not concerned about milestones or other artificial benchmarks that have significance solely because of our adoption of a base ten numeral system...if Player X would be in the bottom of the BBWAA electees, and there are more deserving candidates on the outside looking in, then (as far as I'm concerned) he shouldn't be elected.
  5.  My point isn't (and isn't intended to be) groundbreaking...Jay Jaffe touched on the shakiness of Sosa's HOF case earlier this summer.  I'm just walking through in more detail all the evidence.
  6.  I am borrowing Jaffe's notion of focusing on the BBWAA inductees in weighing whether players should be elected, given how the Veteran's Committee selections have tended to water down the quality of the Hall.  
Anyway...I expect to have Part II up sometime tomorrow, I think...

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if hes
elected its in a cubbie uni right?

by NYTXFAN on Sep 2, 2007 12:30 PM CDT reply actions  

One would think
Since he has spent most of his time with the Cubs.
DaxFlame=Madison Patrello from McKinney, Tx.

by boomer1 on Sep 2, 2007 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

so how about these future guys
that could possibly be in the hall.
pudge
rafey
arod

if they make it all three should be wearing rangers unis.  they had there best years here including arod.  we might have traded him but he was a beast here.  I think daniels should get a rod back.  hed look great in the middle of the lineup.  

by NYTXFAN on Sep 2, 2007 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pudge yes
ARod no.

ARod has already played longer in NY than he did here.

Raffy probably but it's not a slam dunk.

by LoneStarBallUser on Sep 2, 2007 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

yup
pudge should go in as a ranger, arod no way he barely played here.

raffy won't get in so it doesnt matter

Can you please Look into getting a less funny signature? That's sarcasm, btw. - Sharky

by rentz on Sep 2, 2007 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

sorry but
the Juan-der boy ain't gettin' in.  Not with 37 taters after his age 31 season.

by a bebop a rebop on Sep 3, 2007 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Small hall
I'm very small hall, an in, the HOF takes up a very, very small portion of my baseball brain.  I just don't get that excited about who is in or who isn't.
Signature

by t ball on Sep 2, 2007 1:38 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm still...
...with those at BTF.  I just don't see how you can make a case against Sosa.  If he's not in (based on his playing), then there's a lot of guys that need to get kicked out of there as well.  

Again, can you imagine keeping the 5th leading rusher out of the NFL HOF.

by badradiorules on Sep 2, 2007 5:31 PM CDT reply actions  

good point
but are HRs really the baseball equivalent to rushing yards?  I think the closest you can get to rushing yards in baseball terms would be something like Total Bases + Walk + HBP + stolen bases - caught stealing.  

I'm too lazy to look that up, but just looking at total bases, he's only sitting at 30th (ironically just below Biggio).  That'd still put him in the HOF since only Dawson/Rose/Griffey/Raffy are ahead of him and not in, but there's a big difference between the #30 rusher and #5.

by ksf42001 on Sep 2, 2007 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes
In importance to the general fan.  Obviously, there are stats that are a lot more important in baseball, but most fans don't know that.

Just like there's a lot more to being a RB than accumulating a lot of yards.  

However, in the public perception, those two, I think, are on parallel.

by badradiorules on Sep 2, 2007 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow, Adam
BTF received your Sammy criticism even more critically than the LSB community received my Bonds detraction.
sportsdeals.blogspot.com

by BudLight on Sep 2, 2007 6:00 PM CDT reply actions  

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