Debunking the Sammy Sosa, HOFer myth -- Part 2
Following up on Part 1 of our examination of the Sammy Sosa Hall of Fame case, we have this afternoon Part 2, comparing Sosa to the right fielders who have been voted into the Hall by the BBWAA.
There are 12 major league right fielders who have been voted into the Hall of Fame by the BBWAA. They are:
Hank Aaron
Roberto Clemente
Tony Gwynn
Harry Heilmann
Reggie Jackson
Al Kaline
Willie Keeler
Mel Ott
Frank Robinson
Babe Ruth
Paul Waner
Dave Winfield
So...let's look at how Sosa stacks up with these 12 HOF right fielders in career EQA, OPS, OPS+, and WARP3, along with their total major league games:
| Name | EQA | EQA Rank | OPS | OPS Rank | OPS+ | OPS+ Rank | WARP3 | WARP3 Rank | Games |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Aaron | .326 | 2 | 929 | 4 | 155 | t2 | 210.7 | 2 | 3298 |
| Clemente | .302 | 9 | 834 | 11 | 130 | 10 | 126.8 | 7 | 2433 |
| Gwynn | .307 | t6 | 847 | 9 | 132 | 9 | 124.1 | 10 | 2440 |
| Heilmann | .311 | 5 | 930 | 3 | 148 | 5 | 103.4 | 13 | 2148 |
| Jackson | .306 | 8 | 846 | 10 | 139 | 6 | 124.6 | 9 | 2820 |
| Kaline | .299 | 11 | 856 | 8 | 134 | t7 | 126.3 | 8 | 2834 |
| Keeler | .290 | 13 | 803 | 13 | 127 | 13 | 109.2 | 11 | 2123 |
| Ott | .330 | 2 | 947 | 2 | 155 | t2 | 179.7 | 3 | 2730 |
| Robinson | .324 | 4 | 926 | 5 | 154 | 4 | 164.8 | 4 | 2808 |
| Ruth | .368 | 1 | 1164 | 1 | 207 | 1 | 237.6 | 1 | 2503 |
| Sosa | .294 | 12 | 878 | 6 | 128 | 12 | 105.7 | 12 | 2344 |
| Waner | .307 | t7 | 877 | 7 | 134 | t7 | 128.7 | 6 | 2549 |
| Winfield | .301 | 10 | 828 | 12 | 129 | 11 | 131.3 | 5 | 2973 |
It is only in the one non-contextual category -- raw OPS -- that Sosa's ranking is respectable. He's next-to-last in EQA, OPS+ and WARP3, all stats that adjust for league, park and era impact.
Looking at WARP3, Sosa is well behind almost every other player, clumped at the bottom with Heilmann and Keeler. However, if you look at WARP3 on a per 162 game basis, Heilmann has a .5 WARP per 162 edge on Sosa, and Keeler has a full WARP per 162 edge on Sosa.
On a WARP rate basis, Sosa is in the bottom group with Reggie Jackson, Al Kaline, and Dave Winfield, with a slight (.15 per 162 or less) edge on each of the three. This, however, is a result of Jackson, Kaline and Winfield hanging around as role players well after their primes. Sosa, unlike the other three, does not appear capable of hanging around into his early 40s.
This is what makes the games played category so revealing...Sosa has played fewer games than most of the rest of the right fielders on this list, with a correspondingly lower WARP3. However, a star player whose career ends relatively early -- who doesn't have a "long tail" to his career, where he hangs around during his decline phase -- should have a higher EQA and OPS+. The fact that Sosa is near the bottom in each category suggests that he isn't a player, like Heilmann, who was great in his prime but retired early, or a player, like Winfield, who was great in his prime but was able to hang around for years after he started his decline phase. Rather, it suggests that he wasn't as great as the rest of the players on this list.
Of the 13 right fielders looked at here -- the 12 BBWAA HOF selections, and Sosa -- the bottom of the list is clearly Sosa and Keeler, the only 19th century player to make this cut.
This sort of exercise can, however, understate single-season dominance...let's compare the number of top-5 and top-10 finishes Sosa had with these other right fielders:
| Name | MVP-5 | MVP-10 | OBP-5 | OBP-10 | SLG-5 | SLG-10 | OPS-5 | OPS-10 | OPS+-5 | OPS+-10 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Aaron | 8 | 13 | 7 | 11 | 15 | 19 | 15 | 19 | 13 | 18 |
| Clemente | 4 | 8 | 2 | 6 | 2 | 6 | 3 | 8 | 2 | 10 |
| Gwynn | 1 | 7 | 6 | 10 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 6 | 2 | 7 |
| Heilmann | 4 | 5 | 7 | 8 | 6 | 12 | 7 | 10 | 7 | 12 |
| Jackson | 5 | 7 | 2 | 5 | 8 | 12 | 6 | 10 | 7 | 11 |
| Kaline | 4 | 8 | 7 | 9 | 5 | 9 | 5 | 11 | 5 | 9 |
| Keeler | N/A | N/A | 3 | 8 | 1 | 5 | 2 | 5 | 2 | 6 |
| Ott | 3 | 6 | 11 | 16 | 12 | 16 | 13 | 18 | 14 | 18 |
| Robinson | 5 | 9 | 11 | 16 | 11 | 16 | 12 | 15 | 14 | 16 |
| Ruth | 2 | 3 | 16 | 16 | 15 | 16 | 16 | 16 | 16 | 16 |
| Sosa | 2 | 7 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 7 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 5 |
| Waner | 4 | 5 | 7 | 13 | 5 | 7 | 5 | 8 | 5 | 8 |
| Winfield | 3 | 7 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 7 | 3 | 7 | 3 | 7 |
Keep in mind that the MVP, as we know it, didn't really arrive until the 30s, and voting was done differently (or not at all) before then, so the MVP balloting data for players who spent some or all of their careers in the majors before then is going to be less applicable.
Again, though, this exercise shows what we saw before...Sosa doesn't compare well to the rest of the group. Not only is it clear he isn't in the Ruth/Aaron/Ott/Robinson class of elite HOF right fielders, he suffers in comparison to the rest of the class.
Heilmann, who (along with Keeler) was clumped with Sosa in WARP3, stands out clearly as more dominant in his time. And more modern contemporaries, Kaline, Jackson, Clemente and Winfield, all grade out higher than Sosa. And Kaline, Clemente and Winfield were all multiple gold glove winners who were considered exceptional defensive right fielders, while Sosa has been viewed as adequate, at best, in the field.
Comparing Sosa to the 12 BBWAA elected HOF right fielders, he appears better than Wee Willie Keeler, but pretty clearly worse than every other right fielder who has been elected.
So the case for having the BBWAA vote Sosa into the Hall boils down to, he's better than a guy who played in the 1800s who was voted in by the BBWAA more than 70 years ago.
That's not a real strong case.
Next, in part 3, I'll compare Sosa to some additional right fielders who have either been voted in by the Veteran's Committee, or who haven't been elected at all.
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suggestion for a part
He's still a HOFer
If HRs are all you got, than you'd better hit a lot of them. He did. That combined with his fan stature gets him in for me. Yes, I know that popularity should not be the most important factor, but it does count. If there are others with more deserving overall stats that have not been voted in yet, that doesn't mean to me that Sosa should also not get in. It means they should be in as well.
nicely done...
again, with Biggio and OPS+
Rogers Hornsby 175
Nap Lajoie 150
Eddie Collins 141
Jackie Robinson 132
Joe Morgan 132
Rod Carew 131
Charlie Gehringer 124
Tony Lazzeri 121
Bobby Doerr 115
Ryne Sandberg 114
Billy Herman 112
Craig Biggio 112
Frankie Frisch 111
Johnny Evers 106
Bid McPhee 106
Nellie Fox 94
Red Schoendienst 93
Bill Mazeroski 84
plus Frank Grant (who I can't find stats on)
OTHERS NOT IN THE HOF:
Jeff Kent 125
Bobby Grich 125
Roberto Alomar 116
Lou Whitaker 117
Julio Franco 111
Biggio
Alomar and Kent aren't eligible yet, but they'd both get in if I had a vote. Grich and Whitaker are more borderline cases, but I think they both deserve more consideration than they've received thus far.
Adam for HOF
You cannot take 600 HRS overall..
3 60 homers seasons...
And more that 20 individual records...
If Sammy is out... you have to re-evaluate and take out many many HOFs, like Ryne Sandberg that his numbers now look like from an average player.
sorry guy
and ryne sandberg is in because he is considered the best 2B in his league defensively AND he could hit.
anyway, if Sosa played some other position, it owuld have helped. but he didn't so it doesn't.
any way, you give the reason
So Sosa was not a LF or DH all his career. And if he is in between the best 15 of the hardest batting position, you have to be good...
A 3B and 1B are position where you expect much production also. But no team expect a 20 homer guy in RF unless the guy is Ichiro...
Like Alomar..
Man Alomar was 2 times better than Sandberg that was a first ballot HOF. Batting and Defending.
roberto alomar
maybe not 1st ballot, but eventually.
i posted a diary in july discussing current players and who should be in HOF
http://lonestarball.com/story/2007/7/12/181746/074
there may be some similar discussions there.
no doubter hofer
we are still talking about this
Keep up the good work Adam in bashing Sosa.
yeah
it's like that old senator (forgot who) on discussing obscenity. you may not be able to explain it, but you know it when you see it. sosa is a HOFer.
that wasn't a senator
massaging stats?
sorry for the misuse
In this case, I know he is using the actual numbers but to me if yu tell me that Sosa is the 12th best RF int he Hall (if elected) even if that is out of 12 I say..well done...now the question is are there say others not elected (or likely to be elected) that are above him...that will show up in Part III
However, there are so many other intngible things with Sosa (600 HR) that make him a HOFer.
Sorry for the misuse of the word.
agreed
In the end though, I'd be much happier if HOF voters would put this level of effort into their decisions, instead of filling out their ballot in less than 10 minutes (like some admit to doing).
Well...
I'm saying that, of the 13 RFs who were voted into the Hall by the BBWAA, all of them other than Willie Keeler are better than Sosa.
Among all RFs, all time, he's probably around #20.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 3, 2007 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions
where do you rank SOSA among his peers?
or do you bring in all other OF.
that would move bonds and griffey ahead of him.
Among his peers
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 3, 2007 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions
can't wait.
2b, alomar is close.
ss is REALLY crowded.
OF bonds and then 3 guys clumped together behind him.
i think. but i won't research and go into the details that you to prove your point.
you can say that those of us arguing against you already have our minds made up. but so do you.
with just about anybody, one can pull facts and figures out of somewhere and prove any point. or atleast make it look like a point was proven.
okay
bernie williams is a stretch.
Juan Gone
understand
Just making sure I understand what you are saying.
Top 20
I would vote Sosa in if I had a vote, though.
HOF numbers
1B: 21 (10 + 8 + 3)
2B: 18 (9 + 8 + 1)
3B: 13 (6 + 4 + 3)
SS: 23 (10 + 11 + 2)
LF: 20 (9 + 10 + 1)
CF: 25 (7 + 12 + 6)
RF: 20 (12 + 8 + 0)
(I probably missed a few BWAA players, by the way -- I couldn't find a good list of VC vs. BWAA HOFers so I had to pick through them by hand.)
And 1 "DH", Paul Molitor (who played less than half of his career at DH).
This makes a reasonable case that the 20th best RF in ML history should be in the HOF -- [i]if you assume that the HOF does a good job of recognizing the 20 best RFs in ML history[/i]. They pretty clearly don't.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but historically the Veteran's Committee in particular has done a pretty terrible job at recognizing greatness. Tommy McCarthy is a Hall of Famer. King Kelly is a Hall of Famer. Pud Galvin is a Hall of Famer, on the basis of being consistently mediocre when it was pretty easy to win 25-30 games a year. Jesse Haines, Dave Bancroft, Chick Hafey, Ross Youngs, George Kelly, Jim Bottomley and Travis Jackson are Hall of Famers because they had the good fortune to play with Frankie Frisch, who was the later head of the Veteran's Committee.
VC selections like this are the reason why you really have to limit your consideration set to players were were actually voted in. And at the current time, roughly the top 10 players in baseball history at each position have been deemed worthy by the BWAA. This is what's keeping Sammy out -- the standards already establish by the Hall voters.
by a bebop a rebop on Sep 3, 2007 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 3, 2007 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Some very good data
IF sosa is the 2oth best RF ever then although at first I thought that would be slamdunk HOFer it might not be.
Quick question, with so much emphasis on numbers (i.e. 300 wins, 500 or now maybe 600 hr's) it is very possible that the Hall will expand greatly in the next 10-20 years due to the numbers being put up by players now....unless of course they are not elected. I am somewhat rambling but my question would be do people here think that writers will analyze or just elect guysthat put up the numbers (i.e. 600 hr).
Good Question
- They'll elect a large number of the first group of this generation to retire, and then slowly up what they consider automatic HOF offensive numbers. I think we're already seeing movement along those lines in terms of pitching, since 300 wins is a lot less attainable than it once was.
- The voters just say screw it, and the the baseball HOF becomes more like the other major sports HOFs, where there's less emphasis on retaining the "integrity" of the institution.
All I care about
I can't wait to read the write up.

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