What's Ailing Jason Botts?

by engelsol on Sep 5, 2007 11:56 PM CDT

Just found this and looks interesting to discuss about Botts.

Read Here from The Ranger Rundown

Scott Lucas see three problems:

1) Botts leads the team in pitches per plate appearances with 4.4

2) Botts has simply been terrible at turning first-pitch swings into fair balls.

3) Following from 2), Botts lead the team in percentages of plate appearances reaching an 0-2 count.

Check the link above to see the stats.

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Botts

His swing looks too long.

Lucas' discussion was interesting, but the main problem I see in his AB's so far is simply that he is missing pitches he should crush because his swing is way too long.

by BAC on Sep 6, 2007 12:40 AM CDT reply actions

Same here

At first he was also swinging at pitches that he wouldn't ordinarily, presumably because he was pressing. But for quite a while now he's just swinging at and missing pitches that he should be hitting.

by Brett Perryman on Sep 6, 2007 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions

re

by Sharky on Sep 10, 2007 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions

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by Sharky on Sep 10, 2007 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions

His swing is horrible.

its too long and he's missing or fouling off 88mph fastballs.
he has very little stride now so even if he connects, he is sacrificing a lot of power.

I hate to say I told you so but I told you so.

by kumar75150 on Sep 6, 2007 1:44 AM CDT reply actions

The biggest disappointment of the year

was hearing that Jason Botts had retooled his swing to make it more compact, and then to see him come up and watch his swing travel through Burleson every at bat.

I can definitely understand why the Rangers were skeptical of bringing him up, despite his numbers.

by DJCahill on Sep 6, 2007 7:24 AM CDT reply actions

folks has been succcessfull...

with loopy swings. The issue I see is the swing is the same no matter what type of pitch or its location. Franco and Gonzo met inside pitches way in front of the plate nearly every time. Outside pitches, I remember them waiting on till the absolute last second before they slapped it. Breaking balls meant a near golf swing, a different swing plane.

It seems Jason just takes a cut at it and hopes its where it needs to be according to where he is swinging. I think thats why he sees more pitches. Hes waiting for one in his wheel house because hes not making the adjustment to pitches that aren't in the wheel house successfully.

Just MHO...

by corbsclinton on Sep 6, 2007 9:09 AM CDT reply actions

The problem is

He is getting beat by pitches in his wheel house. Then strikes out on the breaking ball out of the zone.

by badradiorules on Sep 6, 2007 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions

Yah

And Juando never struck on breaking balls out of the zone. Nope. Never.

Not comparing Botts to Jaundo as a player, but a weakness to breaking pitches away doesn't mean someone is certain to fail.

The 40 trumps all!

by thedirkatron on Sep 6, 2007 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions

You're right

A lot of great hitters do that. The difference between a good hitter and a bad hitter is that when a good hitter gets a pitch to hit, he hits it.

Now, he may start catching up to those FBs in plus counts this month, but as an observation of what I've seen thus far, he gets beat by those pitches right now.

As for Juan, yes if you threw a slider off the plate and down every pitch you could strike him out every time. However, if you didn't get it there, he made you pay big time. I don't see Botts making anybody pay RIGHT NOW for anything.

by badradiorules on Sep 6, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions

My point is....

there needs to be a set plan of attack for every pitch that depends on location and its break. Right now it looks like his POA is the same for every pitch.

by corbsclinton on Sep 6, 2007 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions

Oh, I'm with you

I get the feeling that he feels completely comfortable attacking any pitch right now.

I would feel better if he truly murdered FBs away and couldn't hit anything on the inside right now.

That way at least the pitcher has to adjust to him. Right now, if you are pitcher, your plan should be to just not walk him.

by badradiorules on Sep 6, 2007 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions

old Sammy Sosa > Jason Botts

by Brandon Wilson on Sep 6, 2007 9:29 AM CDT reply actions

Still early

I'm losing patience along with everyone else, but I'm waiting until at least the end of the season to start clamoring for someone else. Certainly not Sosa, he's no more a solution for '08 than Botts, unless you find a platoon partner, and that would just continue to clog the roster with 4th outfielder-DH types.

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by t ball on Sep 6, 2007 10:14 AM CDT reply actions

agreed

Sosa is no solution for next season, but neither is Botts unless he learns to "cheat on the fastball" better than Sosa or shortens his swing.

What we are seeing with Botts is exactly why Sosa was kept and blocked Botts to start the season. Given how the season has gone it would have been better to go with Botts to start with, but the Rangers saw that he was going to struggle with his swing when he came up and did not want that struggle in addition to Nelson Cruz to start the season.

Botts may be able to shorten his swing, but if that was in fact what he was doing in OKC to start the season, it sapped his power. Given that his only viable position is DH, he has to be able to maintain the power. My confidence that he can adjust and maintain the power is waning quickly.

by Brandon Wilson on Sep 6, 2007 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't have a lot of faith

that Botts will ever be a Major Leaguer, but I still don't see a whole lot wrong with giving him 300-500 ABs next year.

Unless of course the team as a whole gets hot in April-May, and he is still floundering. Then you kick him to the curb.

by DJCahill on Sep 6, 2007 11:19 AM CDT reply actions

Good

Summary. Concise.

Time does funny things. The worst of which is, it keeps moving when you don't.

by Ed Coffin on Sep 6, 2007 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions

Yep

unless someone else falls in their laps this winter, the other options out there are not any more appealing and don't fit into the long-term plan. Might as well throw him out there for a few months. By mid-summer next year there may be a couple farm folks close to ready, other teams will be looking for trade partners, etc. By then they should have a definitive answer on Botts.

I think we now have a fairly definitive answer on Cruz and Tejeda, and it's not the answer I was hoping for.

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by t ball on Sep 6, 2007 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions

The problem is that

it's only been 28 games. Settle down, people. Maybe he comes around, maybe he doesn't, but I think he should get a few more at bats before people get bent out of shape.

Well Mr. Burns had done it. The power plant had won it. With Roger Clemens clucking all the while.

by WyoRanger on Sep 6, 2007 11:32 AM CDT reply actions

28 games

The small sample size thing is all fine and good when he looks like he's doing things right, but not getting results.

Right now he looks like his swing is just too damn long. That's not something sample size will fix.

by Brandon Wilson on Sep 6, 2007 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Amazing

The number of swing instructors we have on this site is baffling.

The guys starts slow. Just how it is. So did Teix. Give the guy some time to adjust to the majors (500 more ABs), and then maybe draw a conclusion.

Well Mr. Burns had done it. The power plant had won it. With Roger Clemens clucking all the while.

by WyoRanger on Sep 6, 2007 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions

I seriously doubt

he will get 500 more ABs unless he shows something first. Mostly because he is a real tough guy to carry on a roster if he isn't hitting, since he has no defensive ability.

by DJCahill on Sep 6, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions

The topic was...

whats ailing Jason Botts? In a discussion topic, you discuss, give your opinions, and discuss other's opinions. Not talking about the hole that is Botts' swing because he hasn't got his 500 AB's is dumb. That said, I hope he goes 4-4 tomorrow night. Let the toe-tapping resume.

by corbsclinton on Sep 6, 2007 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions

4-4

will be all singles that dribble up the middle.

Mark Connor just shows up to the ballpark to collect a paycheck.

by jshcmp on Sep 6, 2007 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions

What "hole"?

Everyone talks about the "hole" like it's not debatable. Lots of different guys have different swings. There isn't one "right" swing. Some guys might have a true problem with their swing that makes them a poor hitter, but just because someone on this board says that Botts has a "hole" in his swing does not make it fact. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I think performance should determine that whether there's a problem, and we haven't seen enough yet.

The guy absolutely destroyed AAA after a slow start. So for purposes of this discussion, I guess there are two possibilities. 1) he has a "hole" in his swing that AAA pitching could never capitalize on, and he'll never be a decent major league hitter. 2) he's a slow starter and hasn't had time to adjust to major league pitching.

Me, I'll take his history (good hitter after slow start) over amateur swing analysis. Maybe he'll never adjust, but only time will tell.

Well Mr. Burns had done it. The power plant had won it. With Roger Clemens clucking all the while.

by WyoRanger on Sep 6, 2007 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Wyo

I agree, hole in a swing is overused. But if it was definable, Jason Botts's swing could be used as an example. Its kind of like a pitcher's stuff. Combining command and control to get something isn't easy to do and isnt a perfect measure. If you cant see it, I dont know how to tell you how but I'll give it a shot.

Imagine having a thin vertical sheet of ice and hitting it with a baseball bat. If you hit it squarely flat it would take a rectangle piece out of the sheet probably the width of the bat and covering most of the length of the bat.

Now, new sheet of ice, same bat. Now open your stance before you take a swing. Can you hit it square exactly like you did last time or does the end hit first? Same thing goes if you take a step back. Its very difficult to make the bat cover the same amount space when the angle or plane changes.

Back to Botts swing, we have all established it is loopy. His hands are further away from his body usually. His bat goes through the strike zone at a different angle and plane than the more conventional flat and fairly level through the strike zone hitters. This isn't a bad thing. The angles he takes through the strike zone will create holes, not having as much of the bat available when the ball goes through the strike zone. He just has to get better at identifying the pitches and getting the bat out front of the inside ones and extending those long arms late on the outside.

Thats what I see when I say he has a hole. That hurt my head. Go ahead guys, rip it apart. I'm sure there are "holes" in my post.

by corbsclinton on Sep 6, 2007 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions

sounded

about right to me. the only thing I disagree with is that I'm not sure ANY swing can be compensated for. I have a hard time imagining how he's going to make contact with the swing he has, without cheating a lot on fastballs.

I think this might also be a case where has to figure it out on his own.

Forget Johnny Bench, we got Gerry "the Jet" Laird

by ab03 on Sep 6, 2007 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions

What?

It doesn't matter if I'm a swing instructor or not. My point is that saying he needs more time without out taking into consideration whether he has the physical mechanics to succeed does not make sense.

Given your position on his hitting, I assume you must also want to see him get 100 games in left field to see if he can adjust to playing there at the major league level, right? No??? Why are you a fielding instructor or something? Puh-leaze

by Brandon Wilson on Sep 6, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions

No instructore here either

But been behind enough plates to suggest something. Some have said his swing plane is 'the same' every swing. Well, it looks that way because of its' radius. Jason does not use his hips and legs to locate his upper body (you know, where the arms attach and the bat is appended) at a level that compensates for the height of the pitch within the strike zone.

Whew .. that's a mouthful. He actually may have taken power away from his swing arc with the toe tap adjustment to shorten its' circumference. He is reaching for the ball using his eyes and the bat barrel as a vector. If he squares the ball after such a reach, it isn't the power he displayed at OKC that's expected, because the mechanics actually slow down the bat at its' extension point, rather than accelerate it. That's fixable, but he'd have to get rid of the upright, down and back up arc, and release after the bet tip is at full extension to generate huge power. That's a lot to figure out.

And it only applies when he's batting LH. For whatever reason, he does crouch more, and release better, RH.

Time does funny things. The worst of which is, it keeps moving when you don't.

by Ed Coffin on Sep 6, 2007 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions

I follow you

unfortunately, most of the pitchers he faces will be right handed so he is going to be on the left side more often than not... and like you say, it's a lot to figure out when you've never had to before.

This split is nothing new, though. His OPS against lefties was 100 points higher at OKC this year, 125 points higher in 2006, 235 points higher in 2005.

by Brandon Wilson on Sep 6, 2007 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions

Maybe if he....

Moved his batting helmet up over his eyes he could see and not strike out every other at bat, if you can't see the ball you can't hit the ball, they should try whatever to see if he will ever be a quality big league hitter, I personally doubt it, but who knows.

Kick Hicks Outta Texas!!!

by TexasGonzo on Sep 6, 2007 12:30 PM CDT reply actions

Noticed that

His helmet brim is really low.

Time does funny things. The worst of which is, it keeps moving when you don't.

by Ed Coffin on Sep 6, 2007 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions

the real issue

is the cleft in his chin is catching extra wind from the jet stream and throwing him off balance in the middle of his swing.

"This report of my death was an exaggeration"--Mark Twain

by rangerdanger on Sep 6, 2007 12:48 PM CDT reply actions

LOL

"Hello win column..."

by rangersfan34 on Sep 6, 2007 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions

botts

one thing that shouldn't be overlooked:

A lot of people might see botts's failure as justification for never bringing him up here until now but I see it as exactly the opposite. If we had found out about Botts (or Laird) a year or two years ago instead of dicking around with veterans that were never part of the future, we wouldn't be wasting our time now with them. It seems to me that Botts learned nothing while he was in triple- a so he just wasted away down there and our DH situation became stagnant. The only justification for this is if Sosa was going to be considered part of our long term plans. That's why I agree with Adam when he says Sosa is a failure. He's definitely not a long term solution to DH.

Most triple-a studs deserve 300-400 AB's in the majors so its very possible that Botts gets DH ab's next year and rightfully so. Just a shame that he didn't get those AB's this year and gotten the audition over with.

Forget Johnny Bench, we got Gerry "the Jet" Laird

by ab03 on Sep 6, 2007 5:41 PM CDT reply actions

Please

When talking about how bad Botts was last month, can people please stop defending it by saying he is a slow starter.

He was on a nice roll when he was called up and had been playing all year. He's been in the big leagues before and he's 27. The only thing that has changed is the level of competition. That's it.

Now, will he earn the DH job this month? I don't know, I hope so. But, if he is dismal this month that's it. 27 year olds who've done nothing in the big leagues through 300 PAs don't get more opportunities to be an everyday DH in the big leagues.

The hardest question is what do you do if he's okay. Maybe he ends the year with a .700 OPS. Good enought to show flashes, not good enough to really give you hope that he's going to be good.

by badradiorules on Sep 6, 2007 11:37 PM CDT reply actions