Winning Pitcher Explanation

by T Coleman on Sep 6, 2007 8:48 PM CDT

In the Cardinal's 16-4 win over the Pirates today, Kelvin Jimenez was credited with the win. He faced one batter, in the second inning, and struck him out. Then he was promptly removed from the game for a pinch hitter.

I understand when the starter, Mike Maroth in this case, does not go five innings, the official scorer has the discretion to award the win to a pitcher that pitched effectively. While striking out the lone hitter faced is a nice accomplishment, it hardly warrants being credited with win.

I'm sure that Jimenez is glad to be 2-0.

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Jiminez

The win almost always goes to the second pitcher (assuming the lead stays the way it is so that he is eligible). I am not sure why, but about the only time I have ever seen it go to someone else is when the second pitcher was ineffective.

by uthornfan on Sep 6, 2007 8:44 PM CDT reply actions

random messed up rule

saw this discussed today, may as well bring it up in another weird rule thread.

2 outs, none out.

pitcher A allows a single, and is removed.
pitcher B faces the next batter, who hits into a fielders choice with the runner advancing to second.
next hitter singles.

pitcher b is now tagged with the ER even though its really pitcher a's guy.

by DShep on Sep 6, 2007 9:01 PM CDT reply actions

wait a second

the fielder's choice would have thrown the guy out at 2nd right? allowing the guy safely at 1b? or am i confused?

or is it that they only score it "fielder's choice" when the guy makes it on base safely?

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on Sep 6, 2007 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions

my mistake

dont know why i said fielders choice. i meant throw the runner out at 1st and the first runner advancing to second.

by DShep on Sep 6, 2007 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions

My guess

It is a scorer who doesn't understand the rules, and thinks that if the starter is knocked out in that situation, the 2nd pitcher gets the win automatically.

I expect they'll change the win.

by Adam J. Morris on Sep 6, 2007 9:16 PM CDT reply actions

So

How does the rule actually read? What is the criteria for how long the second pitcher has to go in order to get credited with the win?

by Los Rangers714 on Sep 6, 2007 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions

No rule

There is no rule on how long he has to go. The rule doesn't say who gets the win, it just says the pitcher has to pitch effectively and obviously the lead can't change or become tied after the pitcher throws, because then they would not be eligible anymore.

by uthornfan on Sep 6, 2007 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions

Yep it's all basically up to the official scorer

their opinion on who pitches the "best"

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 6, 2007 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions

I doubt it

I can see an official scorer in high school or college not knowing the rules, but I can't see any way that an official scorer for MLB doesn't know the rules. Pitchers get wins all the time in situations like this, it is nothing new.

by uthornfan on Sep 6, 2007 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions

Wasn't there a game like this for the Rangers?

One pitcher was initially awarded the win, but he only faced one batter or something and the guy on base got picked off somehow, thus ending the inning without the complete at-bat, then Benoit came in toi pitch the next inning and got the win instead.

by Inkara1 on Sep 6, 2007 9:35 PM CDT reply actions

Yeah

I believe the pitcher that initially got the win was Francisco. I may have the details wrong, but I believe he walked the first hitter and gave up a single to the second, only to have a runner thrown out at home. He could have gotten the win, but since he pitched ineffectively (two hitters, both reached base) he didn't get it. Since the pitcher in question above did pitch effectively, even though it was to only one hitter, I bet he keeps the win.

by uthornfan on Sep 6, 2007 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions

allexperts.com

10.17 Winning And Losing Pitcher

(a) The official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher that pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish such lead, unless
(1) such pitcher is a starting pitcher and Rule 10.17(b) applies; or
(2) Rule 10.17(c) applies.

Rule 10.17(a) Comment: Whenever the score is tied, the game becomes a new contest insofar as the winning pitcher is concerned. Once the opposing team assumes the lead, all pitchers who have pitched up to that point and have been replaced are excluded from being credited with the victory. If the pitcher against whose pitching the opposing team gained the lead continues to pitch until his team regains the lead, which it holds to the finish of the game, that pitcher shall be the winning pitcher.

(b) If the pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish such lead, is a starting pitcher who has not completed
(1) five innings of a game that lasts six or more innings on defense, or
(2) four innings of a game that lasts five innings on defense, then the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the relief pitcher, if there is only one relief pitcher, or the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer's judgment was the most effective, if there is more than one relief pitcher.

Al Gore 2008 http://www.myspace.com/igotsculture

by gossamer on Sep 6, 2007 9:52 PM CDT reply actions

jesus

Do they intentionally make those rules practically impossible for a normal person to parse?

"Sharky reminds me of Belushi's speech in Animal House where he says the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor." -tball

by RangerMoto on Sep 7, 2007 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions

Well...

Let's not forget the historic game in 2002 when Aaron Myette threw at the first batter, the great TVP threw two no-hit innings for the win, and was relieved by Benoit who didn't allow a hit until the 9th inning when he allowed a leadoff triple to none other than our own Jerry Hairston Jr. Benoit didn't get the no-hitter, but did get the longest save in major league history (7 IP). That's the strangest game I've ever personally watched.

by rangeressary on Sep 6, 2007 9:57 PM CDT reply actions