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Pirates fire Dave Littlefield

Pirates g.m. Dave Littlefield has gotten fired.

That's good news for Pirates fans...Littlefield has been a disaster as the Pirate g.m., with last year's random pointless trades at the deadline (Oliver Perez and Roberto Hernandez for Xavier Nady being the most prominent) indicative of an organization that had just given up...

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Suppose
Bob Nutting would be interested in the smartest man in baseball in either capacity?
Time does funny things. The worst of which is, it keeps moving when you don't.

by Ed Coffin on Sep 7, 2007 11:22 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Party Line
With the trades, Littlefield was just following the party line.  His job was to keep the team profitable, not competitive.  I really don't hold that against him.  However, his drafting has been horrible, which is a better indication of his talent evaluation.

Now that his tenure is over, who was worse Littlefield or Bonifay?

by Excel Hearts Choi on Sep 7, 2007 11:27 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The trades and corporate policy
I don't buy that.  A good GM should be able to do something positive in any situation.  There may be nothing you can do to "win now," but a GM's job is not only to win today, but to try to build an organization that can win in the future.  

Some of his earlier moves (i.e., Giles for Perez and Bay) made sense.  But lately, trades for guys like Matt Morris and Xavier Nady look like they are made more for appearances and a few wins in the short term rather than anything substantial.  

This is the same argument with Purpura - yeah your owner ties your hands, but making sacrificing the future to just stay mediocre rather than horrible smells like "just trying to not get fired."  And that is the best way to run a team into the ground.

by JBImaknee on Sep 7, 2007 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Summary of Littlefield
Here is the best summary of Littlefield in his time with the Pirates.  Rumor has it that somebody from Baseball Think Factory wrote this Wikipedia article:

Littlefield has acquired a reputation throughout MLB as a difficult trading partner, in that his demands during negotiations are often seen as grossly excessive.

 Littlefield has traded players such as Jason Schmidt, Jason Kendall, Sean Casey, Aramis Ramírez, Chris Young, Gary Matthews Jr., and Kenny Lofton for little or nothing in return. While small market teams thrive on trading established veterans for packages of talented minor leaguers, Littlefield has repeatedly asked for lower-ceiling "major league ready" prospects in return. As a result, the Pirates have a plethora of mid-to-late 20's, borderline major leaguers, and very few young, impact prospects within the system. This strategy runs contrary to that of successful low-payroll teams like the A's, Twins, and Marlins.

 Even his most successful trade was of a somewhat dubious nature. In 2003, Littlefield approached the San Diego Padres with a trade proposal in which the Pirates would receive Xavier Nady, Oliver Perez, and minor league pitcher Cory Stewart in exchange for star outfielder Brian Giles. The Padres refused to surrender Nady, so Littlefield and the Pirates agreed to accept Jason Bay instead.[3] Bay immediately emerged as a star, winning the National League Rookie of the Year award in 2004, while Nady spent the next three seasons as a part-time player with the Padres and the New York Mets. Two years later, Littlefield was successful in trading for Nady. Unfortunately for the Pirates, in order to do so he had to surrender struggling star pitcher Oliver Perez, who has become a better pitcher for New York, as well as veteran reliever Roberto Hernandez and the compensatory draft pick the Mets received when Hernandez left as a free agent that offseason.

 Among his worst transactions to date was the trade of pitcher Chris Young, in whom the Pirates had invested $1.5 million, to Montreal for Matt Herges in December of 2002. Herges was promptly released in spring training, while Young has developed into one of the best young pitchers in baseball. Similarly, the 21-year-old Leo Nunez was traded to Kansas City in December of 2004; in return, the Pirates received 39-year-old Benito Santiago. Nunez was used as a reliever in 2005 and 2006, and in 2007 has emerged as one of Kansas City's most promising starters; Santiago had 6 hits with the Pirates before being released one month into the 2005 season. The inability to obtain significant returns on trades has been a staple of the Dave Littlefield era, and a key reason why the franchise has lost for 15 consecutive years.

 On July 31, 2007, Littlefield made one of the most confounding trades in baseball history. He traded outfielder Rajai Davis to the San Francisco Giants for pitcher Matt Morris. The move has been widely criticized, as Morris, who was 7-7 with a 4.35 ERA at the time of the trade, is slated to make $9.5 million in 2008. Many were surprised that the Pirates would take on such a large contract (especially without having the Giants pick up part of it), as their 2007 Opening Day payroll was just $38.5 million. At the time of the trade, the Pirates were 42-62, 14.5 games out of first place.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Sep 7, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forgot to mention...
I forgot to mention that the Pirates have been an organization of appearances.  When trading away players who look to become too expensive, they don't go the route of Jon Daniels.  To the average baseball fan, it looks like he gave away Gagne for some magic beans.  We all know that he got a good return, though it will take a few years.  It is hard to get people into the stands when your future is stuck in A or AA.  When Littlefield would trade away players, you would almost immediately see those players on the field.  The Pirates could say, "Look, I know seeing Player X leave was hard to do.  But, Players Y & Z are out there on the field right now trying to turn this franchise around.  The future is now."  The Pirates were able to keep a minimal salary, and have the appearance (at least to the casual fan) that they were trying to be competitive.  If Engel Beltre never makes it to the majors, I am sure there will some Ranger fans who say, "Daniels is an idiot.  He gave away Gagne for nothing."  The Pirates wanted to avoid this.

This also explains why the Pirates fired Littlefield.  Pirate fans now have "hope" for the future since Littlefield is gone.  Let's see who takes over.  If it is another "Yes Man", then the Pirates are no better off than before.  It is all about appearances.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Sep 7, 2007 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pirates
Excel- you made a great, great point there.

This is exactly why I got so frustrated back in July with all the people who attacked JD for not getting as many "major-league ready" players (well, besides Salty, Gabbard, and Murphy) as possible when he traded Lofton, Gagne, and Teixeira.

Getting major-league ready talent is all well and good, but it's far more important to extract maximum talent in any given deal. That's what Littlefield failed to recognize- and JD seems to understand- and it's a big reason Littlefield is out of a job, while Daniels still has his.

"Then I met some friends for a beer, went to a BoDeans's concert, and son of a vondruke, if I didn't leave him at the concert hall."

by RCCook on Sep 7, 2007 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kendall
Trading him wasn't a bungle. Giving him that fat contract in the first place was what was stupid.

And I thought the Giants did eat almost all of Morris's contract? Am I mistaken?

I will not get my comeuppance!

by Brian Thomas on Sep 7, 2007 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah
But they could have traded Kendall one or two years earlier, when he had much more value to other teams.  

They also got back Mark Redman and Arthur Rhodes for Kendall.  Redman and Rhodes!  Two old guys with no long term benefit to the team.  They then turn around and trade Rhodes for Matt Lawton - another old guy - who they later trade for Jody Gerut, who never had an impact on the club.  

Yes, trading him was smart.  But trading him for two washed up guys is not what you do with your 2nd or 3rd best player - bad contract or not.

by JBImaknee on Sep 7, 2007 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kendall's trade value
I remember John Hart discussing a Ho for Kendall deal around that time.

I can't remember which side turned it down.

Kendall for Rhodes was a 2 way salary dump. Beane signed Rhodes to that crap contract to be his closer. Heh. That worked out well.

I will not get my comeuppance!

by Brian Thomas on Sep 7, 2007 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Morris
Pretty sure you're mistaken. All accounts I've seen have indicated that the Pirates took on the entire burden of the remainder of his contract.

by Brian Hayes on Sep 7, 2007 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are mistaken
The Giants were willing to eat a lot of it to move him, supposedly.

But the Pirates agreed to take on his whole deal.

by Adam J. Morris on Sep 7, 2007 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.
That alone is grounds for termination...
I will not get my comeuppance!

by Brian Thomas on Sep 7, 2007 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But how much of his draft woes
have been money related?

Did he really want Bryan Bullington over BJ Upton, or was he forbidden from drafting the more expesnive high school stud?

And recently they've had a bunch of good pitchers come up. Snell, Duke, Gorgenzally (sp?). Van Ben Schotten (sp?) was an interesting pick, but he's at least made it to the majors, so they weren't that crazy in picking him a s apitcher. And McCutchen was a really good pick.

It's hard to rip on a guy for drafting poorly in the first round when you don't know how much ownership handcuffed him.

I doubt he (or anyone) really thought Maskos was the best player on the board when they picked this year. Just someone who would sign cheap.

The 40 trumps all!

by thedirkatron on Sep 7, 2007 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is absolutely
no excuse for drafting a college pitcher #1 overall if you think he projects as a #3. Termination is 5 years tardy.
"This is Baseball, it ain't Golf. If you aren't cheating in baseball, you aren't trying nearly hard enough to win." - DJCahill

by Chase Irwin on Sep 7, 2007 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bullington
IIRC, that was the owner who made that call, but not because of financial reasons. He wanted a college pitcher, and sneered at the idea of taking a prepster.
I will not get my comeuppance!

by Brian Thomas on Sep 7, 2007 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever
They'll just keep pocketing the $20 mil/year in revenue sharing and make sure they have "financial flexibility" for when they're competitive. Which will be never.
Well Mr. Burns had done it. The power plant had won it. With Roger Clemens clucking all the while.

by WyoRanger on Sep 7, 2007 11:48 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Unrelated trivia
I stole this from a different site.  Against who (minimum 162 games) do the Rangers have the worst winning percentage. No cheating.
Well Mr. Burns had done it. The power plant had won it. With Roger Clemens clucking all the while.

by WyoRanger on Sep 7, 2007 12:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

x
If you're not going to take this serious, then I'm not telling you.
Well Mr. Burns had done it. The power plant had won it. With Roger Clemens clucking all the while.

by WyoRanger on Sep 7, 2007 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey
That was indeed a serious guess.  The Royals were really good for a long time there ('70s, early '80s) - times when the Rangers weren't particularly good.

I remember us losing to the A's a lot while I was growing up.  But I don't think it is divisional.  I'll guess the Twins

by JBImaknee on Sep 7, 2007 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it used to be the Orioles...
...which surprised me when I first heard it.  Not sure if it's still them, but I remember that our record against them was (is?) pretty awful.
"Hello win column..."

by rangersfan34 on Sep 7, 2007 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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