Sigh
"Big Mac" had 583 home runs, but those are the most worthless 583 home runs in Major League Baseball history. In fact, no one who has hit more than 500 home runs is as worthless as McGwire.
Again, forget for a minute that McGwire's are likely steroid-induced dingers.
His 583 towering shots were almost 36 percent of his career hits total of 1,626.
That's right, he had only 1,626 hits. You tell me a Hall of Famer who had that only many hits. It's also easily the highest percentage of any player with more than 500 career home runs.
Bringing up a name from Chicago's baseball past, it's Dave Kingman-like. In fact, it's much worse than "King Kong," who was known as a homer-or-nothing hitter.
Kingman had 442 career home runs and 1,575 hits, which is 28 percent. The lowest number of hits for a 500-home run guy is 1,925 by Jim Thome of the White Sox, but he's still playing. So he can improve that number a little.
I consider Thome in the same category as McGwire -- not a Hall of Famer. He was a better overall player than McGwire, but in this day and age of inflated numbers, Thome isn't good enough yet.
A better comparison to McGwire would be Fred McGriff, who will be eligible in 2009. The "Crime Dog" had 493 home runs, 2,490 hits and never hit below .269 in a full season. He hit .300 or more four times.
McGwire hit more than .300 only twice and actually had a full season in 1991 (he played 154 games) in which he hit .201.
That's truly pathetic.
No player in the hall of fame for performance has EVER hit that low in a full season in the prime of his career.
That 1991 season was only four years removed from his rookie-of-the-year campaign. And he followed it up with two years (1993 and 1994) in which he had 18 home runs in 74 games combined because of injuries (due to steroids?).
Never mind his famous "I plead the fifth amendment" moment in front of Congress. Never mind that only a blind man could have the opinion big No. 25 wasn't on steroids.
McGwire isn't a Hall of Famer based on pure numbers.
On the other hand, his counterpart in that magically fake cheater-filled 1998 season does deserve Hall of Fame status, if 'roids are removed from the equation.
Sammy "They were just Flintstones Vitamins" Sosa has 609 home runs, 2,408 hits and 234 stolen bases. He had two 30-30 campaigns (1993 and 1995) and may have put together the most dominant five-year stretch in Major League history.
From 1998 to 2002 Sosa averaged 58 home runs, 141 runs batted in with a .306 composite batting average.
Again, forgetting about Flintstones Vitamins or steroids, the number say Sosa is a lock for the hall.
McGriff has an above-average shot and McGwire is a fraud.
This may be the dumbest thing I've ever read.
It is so dumb, I don't even know what the dumbest part of it is...the use of the ratio of homers to hits as a way of evaluating McGwire, or the fact that it ignores the 50+ point difference in OBP between McGwire and Sosa.
(And this reminds me, I need to do another post about why Sosa is not a HOF-caliber player).
McGwire is 12th all-time in career OPS+. Here are the guys ahead of him:
Babe Ruth
Ted Williams
Barry Bonds
Lou Gehrig
Rogers Hornsby
Mickey Mantle
Dan Brouthers
Joe Jackson
Ty Cobb
Albert Pujols
Jimmie Foxx
You want to compare McGwire to people, compare him to Pujols, or Foxx, or Hank Greenberg or Johnny Mize.
Not Dave Kingman.
This is freaking clownshoes.
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36 comments
Comments
huh?...
Pete Rose has the most hits in baseball... he's not in.
Care to comment on that?
by oc on Jan 13, 2008 4:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sigh, Part II
...your arguing that since McGwire has the 12th highest OPS+ in baseball history, he belongs in the Hall?
Pete Rose has the most hits in baseball... he's not in.
Care to comment on that?
The point that the author is making is not that McGwire doesn't belong in the Hall because of steroids.
It is that he doesn't belong in the Hall regardless, because he wasn't a good enough player, even with the steroids.
Which is stupid.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 13, 2008 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok...
...typical Adam Morris number-crunching bullshit.
by oc on Jan 13, 2008 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was obvious...
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 13, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't get that, sir...
by oc on Jan 13, 2008 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How could you not get that?
by thedirkatron on Jan 13, 2008 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm wid O to the C
More bowl-smoking, sandwich eatin', and shit takin'!
by tricer on Jan 13, 2008 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Taking a shit
by t ball on Jan 13, 2008 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rose not in
by SwiperNoSwiping on Jan 13, 2008 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
both have tarnished their careers...
by oc on Jan 13, 2008 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Got away with what?
by SwiperNoSwiping on Jan 13, 2008 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a common misconception
Though I 100% agree that what Rose did was much, much worse than PED's.
by thedirkatron on Jan 13, 2008 7:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
McGwire and Rose...
by slc ranger on Jan 13, 2008 8:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Question:
To the best of my knowledge he's admitted betting on his team, but still denies betting against them.
I have very little doubt in my mind that he's still lying and did indeed bet against his own team, which is absolutely unforgivable, imo.
My question is, do you believe he bet against his own team and still want him in the hall?
Or do you believe he never bet against his own team?
by thedirkatron on Jan 13, 2008 11:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, sadly...
Yes I still believe he belongs in the HOF. The guy has more hits than any other player to play the game and that alone gets him in imo.
I don't endorse the guy on a personal level, but he is one of he best players to play the game. For better or worse, he is a huge part of baseball history.
by slc ranger on Jan 13, 2008 11:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
even if he didn't
by JKolar on Jan 14, 2008 5:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea
by DJCahill on Jan 14, 2008 5:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
dave kingman?
mcgwire destroys kingman lol
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Jan 13, 2008 4:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
lol
both played 16 seasons.
kong played 70 more games.
kong had 500 more AB's.
big mac had over 200 more runs scored.
big mac had 200 more rbi.
big mac had more than double the walks.
big mac had 300 fewer strikeouts.
big mac has a world series ring.
big mac had 140 more home runs.
big macs avg was .027 higher (that's a lot)
big macs obp was .092 higher.
i know the argument wasn't for kingman being in the hall. but it's a lot of comparison's between kingman and big mac. and arbitrarily % of hits being home run was an issue. i would think for a power hitter, the higher the % the better.
being #9 in career slugging% is pretty good.
who is he behind? babe ruth, teddy ballgame, the iron horse, pujols, foxx, bonds, greenberg and manny.
ahead of joe dimaggio, arod and rogers hornseby and stan musial.
#11 in OPS. behind ruth,teddy ballgame, the iron horse, bonds, pujols, foxx, greenberg, todd helton, rogers hornseby and manny.
and what adam said about OPS+.
but yeah, he used something (allegedly) that was not against the rules of baseball.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Jan 13, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
AJM
by tricer on Jan 13, 2008 5:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
as far as "worthless home runs"
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Jan 13, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
here
http://vegaswatch.net/2008/01/new-statistic.html
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Jan 13, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sosa is a HOF
by BillyBobisdrunk on Jan 13, 2008 5:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Harmon Killebrew...
What a candy-ass. Doesn't belong in the Hall.
by Lucas on Jan 13, 2008 5:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
and Ralph Kiner and Hack WIlson
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Jan 13, 2008 5:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Jason Botts is probably a hall of famer in AJM's book..
by Sharky on Jan 13, 2008 7:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sharky
Adam quoted two stats in his comments, which took me an entire two minutes on Baseball Reference to verify as correct.
If you're referring to the column Adam posted as being full of lies, well, Adam's point is that the column is a bunch of crap.
Seriously, dude, if you're going to troll, at least make a point which doesn't make you look like a total and complete dumb-ass.
by RCCook on Jan 13, 2008 8:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just made a little wager...
by slc ranger on Jan 13, 2008 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OPS+
by DJCahill on Jan 14, 2008 6:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
If Sammy Sosa
by DJCahill on Jan 15, 2008 6:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of questionable HOF love on this site...
by SwiperNoSwiping on Jan 15, 2008 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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