Steroids and Baseball

by rangeressary on Jan 22, 2008 6:54 AM CST Comment 25 comments

Most people were probably so sick of this topic that they didn't even click on this diary. I understand that and feel the same way to a point. Personally though, I'm looking for the truth in regards to PEDs and their effects and will weigh that information before I start casting stones at the current crop of accused players. Many of these players have inspired me for many years, and it honestly hurts to see them cast before the angry mob without at least giving them a fair trial.

I think some others feel this same way and as such, some sites are trying to get at the answers to what "real" effects PEDs have on athletes and their performance. Sabernomics and Will Carroll have both posted interesting research by medical professionals that seems to contradict the assumptions being spewed out as fact by prominent media outlets.

Eric Walker, who most of you Sabermetricians already know, has set up a very informative site called "Steroids and Baseball." I think it is a wonderful starting point for those who are really interested at getting to the heart of this issue, providing medical information and some fine statistical analysis. Check it out.

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Quite interesting

I don't have time to read much today, but I plan on perusing this site a bit as soon as I can. A lot of interesting ideas at first glance, but I want to seriously digest this stuff before debating it more.

hurlerhurley has to drink a 6 pack just to have one for each of his usernames.

by t ball on Jan 22, 2008 7:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

my opinion is that

physics do not lie.

Steroids cause increased muscle mass (i.e. Barry Bonds).
Increased muscle mass allows you to swing a heavier bat with more force.
More force causes the ball to come off the bat faster, causing it to go further.

Any analysis to try to disprove basic physics at this point seems like a waste of time or sensational journalism at this point.

Bottom line: If steroids did not help players, they wouldn't take them.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Jan 22, 2008 11:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

well done!

of course - it's silly to say they don't impact the game. It's quite simple ...if you're stronger you're going to hit the ball farther. And steroids make you stronger very quickly. From personal experience when I did a 3 month cycle years ago I was benching 350 naturally and jumped up to 500 within 3 months and I wasn't even on a heavy cycle.

Want to see Miles do a really great Hannibal Lechter impersonation? Tell him how wonderful you think Eli Manning is.

by LAMuscleFag on Jan 22, 2008 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

steroids help with strength

and strength CAN be an asset to a hitter, but I'm not sure that a baseball player benching 300 is going to be any better as a hitter than one benching 200. In fact, couldn't the extra muscle mass slow down a swing, making the player more powerful but less likely to make contact?

Juevos Daniels: biggest stones in the business.

by tricer on Jan 22, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that....

Mark McGwire, Jose Canseco, and Barry Bonds would disagree with that argument.

Want to see Miles do a really great Hannibal Lechter impersonation? Tell him how wonderful you think Eli Manning is.

by LAMuscleFag on Jan 22, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and of course our beloved ..

Gonzilla who went from olive oil to popeye practically overnight.

Want to see Miles do a really great Hannibal Lechter impersonation? Tell him how wonderful you think Eli Manning is.

by LAMuscleFag on Jan 22, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

do you golf?

if so, I'm wondering if you were able to hit your driver better when benching 500 pounds or 350?

Juevos Daniels: biggest stones in the business.

by tricer on Jan 22, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no I don't golf ...

but I would put money that I'd of been able to hit the ball a lot further when I was benching 500. I looked like Conan the Barbarian, I did hit some baseballs though and was smacking the ball over the fence like never before.

Want to see Miles do a really great Hannibal Lechter impersonation? Tell him how wonderful you think Eli Manning is.

by LAMuscleFag on Jan 22, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There are a lot of Sprinters, Like Ben Johnson,

who will tell you that steroids can make you quicker as well as stronger.

This "you'll just bulk up and slow down" thinking is from the '60s.

"We should have bombed it (Auschwitz)"-President Bush

by DJCahill on Jan 22, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

My problem is the attitude that some seem to have that certain evil players stick a needle in their ass, get stronger, and suddenly become elite power hitters/pitchers. I don't think steroids ever made anybody a great player. McGwire would have been an incredible player with or without the juice. Same with Bonds. Same with Clemens

I do think that steroids work best on players that have an incredible work ethic.

Juevos Daniels: biggest stones in the business.

by tricer on Jan 22, 2008 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I agree with that

shooting steroids, and then eating potato chips on the couch while watching porn ain't going to help. Also, a guy like Jason Tyner can shoot 'roids and he can still suck.

However, I do think they can make a below average player into an average to above average player, and an above average player into a star.

"We should have bombed it (Auschwitz)"-President Bush

by DJCahill on Jan 22, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

do you think

that every player using steroids becomes a better player? I don't. I think PEDs can help with some physical attributes like strength, speed, recovery time, etc., but some players are able to translate those attributes into baseball performance while others can't. I don't think there is any product in a vial that can help a person hit or throw a curveball.

Juevos Daniels: biggest stones in the business.

by tricer on Jan 22, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think any athlete

who uses PEDs and has a good trainer, will improve at his sport.

Quickness and strength are rarely liabilities. Getting your bat through the strike zone 100 milliseconds quicker gives you that much more time to lay back on a pitch.

For the same reason folks who have slowing bats as they age become worse hitters, hitters who have quicker bats become better hitters.

"We should have bombed it (Auschwitz)"-President Bush

by DJCahill on Jan 22, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Just ask JHJ

by TheBZA on Jan 23, 2008 8:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oversimplification

Get stronger - swing bigger bat - ball go farther seems to ignore a lot of factors that go into being a successful hitter.

Using your line of reasoning, Magnus von Magnuson would be the best hr hitter in the history of the game, because he could swing a big ole piece of lumber, and to suggest otherwise would be akin to contradicting basic physics.

Juevos Daniels: biggest stones in the business.

by tricer on Jan 22, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

this had nothing to do with magnus ...

we are talking about hitters that have proven they can hit a fastball and curveball BEFORE they went on steroids. They just happened to be able to hit it further once the steroids set in. This does not apply to just anybody lol. The hard part is being able to hit a curve and fastball once you've got that down you can certainly increase your power by taking roids. That not even arguable. Also there are all kinds of differant steroids some bulk you up big time, some are cutting agents, some help speed things up like your fast twitch muscle fibers along the lines of what Ben Johnson took to make him faster. You could conceivable take a steroid that makes you stronger and another one that speeds your bat up.
BUT without the god given talent of being able to hit these pitches in the first place they wouldn't really matter.

Want to see Miles do a really great Hannibal Lechter impersonation? Tell him how wonderful you think Eli Manning is.

by LAMuscleFag on Jan 22, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Your view of physics

is pretty limited. There is more to hitting a baseball than brute force.

hurlerhurley has to drink a 6 pack just to have one for each of his usernames.

by t ball on Jan 22, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well of course there is ..

but if you have the ability to hit a curveball, or a fastball for starter and you add strength to that mix you're going to hit the ball a lot further. Of coure you have to have the ability to hit these pitches to begin with that goes without saying.

Want to see Miles do a really great Hannibal Lechter impersonation? Tell him how wonderful you think Eli Manning is.

by LAMuscleFag on Jan 22, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Concur...

with your bottom line.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 22, 2008 11:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dan Naulty

Anyone catch 'Outside the Lines' this past weekend? The story concerned the PED use by former Twins/ Yankees reliever Dan Naulty. Drafted out of Fullerton State as a lanky, marginal talent, he started injecting himself with any number of banned substances in order to pack on weight. According to the player himself, he put on 60 pounds, which in his estimation was only possible through PED use. Curiously, he maintained that in this time he went from a guy throwing in the high-80's to a nearly 100MPH fastball.

Naulty was convinced that without drugs, he would never have made it out of High-A ball. With steroids/ HGH, he has a WS ring.

by biff pocoroba on Jan 22, 2008 2:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I won't condone

the use of steroids for everyday people; but if you can handle doing the research check sites like http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/index.php - steroids make you stronger, leaner, faster and as long as you take them correctly, are relatively safe. Growing up I was told steroids only made you retain water, that people who took them were dumb because there was no athletic advantage. Well I found out different because I did experiment and the results were nothing short of finding the Fountain of Youth. I don't want to start a debate with anyone or persuade anyone into trying them, but I'm sick of reading 129 pound journalists rant and rave about something they have only a vague idea about. My personal opinion is that if taken correctly pot and juice are 150X safer than the 6 pack you pick up on the way home.

by j d on Jan 22, 2008 7:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

x

How would one incorrectly take pot?

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by Chase Irwin on Jan 22, 2008 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

idk

pot is pretty safe, lol. i shouldn't have even posted, just trying to share my experience; hope i don't get flamed too bad but whatever. btw nice point, maybe ask oc. lol

by j d on Jan 22, 2008 7:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with ya J D..

how one takes pot correctly is by not getting in a car after you've smoked a J. I love the stuff I just hate the part where you feel like you have to eat everything in sight. But sure a lit'l pot and juice in moderation isn't going to kill ya. I'm living proof of that :)

Want to see Miles do a really great Hannibal Lechter impersonation? Tell him how wonderful you think Eli Manning is.

by LAMuscleFag on Jan 22, 2008 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs