Callis on Volquez

by mattrpav on Jan 8, 2008 5:42 PM CST

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/askba/265412.html

Basically he thinks Volquez is a 'tease'.

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I agree with Callis.

Something else he said has also dawned on me:

"Considering that the Rangers have been on a perpetual search for pitching, however, shouldn't it tell us something that they were willing to part with Volquez?"

I think we sold high on Volquez. He may prove me wrong, but I just never saw him as much more than a Rupe/Loe/generic sometime #5 starter.

by Athos on Jan 8, 2008 6:10 PM CST reply actions

still

the argument could be made that the rangers are good at developing pitching and bad at identifying talented ones

by ab03 on Jan 8, 2008 6:41 PM CST up reply actions

It's rather obvious

the Rangers are bad at identifying potential MLB starting pitchers and then traded them away.

by ghostofChrisYoungandJohnDanks on Jan 8, 2008 7:24 PM CST up reply actions

Take another stab at that sentence

by Brett Perryman on Jan 8, 2008 7:35 PM CST up reply actions

because

we're identifying potential waiver wire pickups

bwaaahaha

by ghostofChrisYoungandJohnDanks on Jan 8, 2008 7:47 PM CST up reply actions

Who?

Who have the Rangers developed outside of relievers? They've kept most of the talented relievers that they've developed.

The best starters to have played in the Rangers minor league system during the last 10-15 years are probably Chris Young, Aaron Harang and Doug Davis. Of course, Danks may turn out to be a good pitcher, but at this point it's hard to tell.

Yet only Doug Davis was truly developed by the Rangers. Look at their minor league careers of Young and Harang who were both in the Rangers systems, yet spent the majority of their minor league careers elsewhere:

Davis:
100% of his MiLB IP were in the Rangers system

Young:
219 MiLB IP in the Pirates system
113 MiLB IP in the Expos system
118 MiLB IP in the Rangers system
Total: 26% of his MiLB innings

Harang:
235 MiLB IP in the Rangers system
276 MiLB IP in the A's system
6 MiLB IP in the Reds system
Total: 45% of his MiLB innings

Is there someone else I'm not thinking of right now?

by rangeressary on Jan 9, 2008 12:20 AM CST up reply actions

rick helling and kevin brown...

...are the only two home-grown ranger starters in the last 20 years to have mild success at the big-league level...

harang and young... not just yet...

by oc on Jan 9, 2008 8:58 AM CST up reply actions

Harang

has almost pitched 1000 innings in the majors, and has an ERA+ of 107. Thats a successful minor leaguer.

Chris Young has been an all star. That's a successful minor leaguer.

You get a guy who has more than 3 league average seasons, thats a successful minor leaguer in my book.

"As of now they're (The Astros) world series favorites. Period." - Sharky

by DJCahill on Jan 9, 2008 9:06 AM CST up reply actions

chris young...

...was pretty pathetic after the all-star break, sir.

...not ready to crown him just yet.

by oc on Jan 9, 2008 11:49 AM CST up reply actions

what about Kenny Rogers?

he was Texas-developed

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Jan 9, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions

taken.

by oc on Jan 9, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions

"mild" success

Harang has led the league in strikeouts and been a workhorse for a few years now, I would say that is at worst "mild" success. Also Young has been pretty good as well as Kenny Rogers and even Doug Davis, Ryan Dempster, Darren Oliver, Roger Pavlik, Brian Bohannon and Wilson Alvarez along with another one or two that I'm not thinking of have had "mild" success.

by badradiorules on Jan 9, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions

fuckin' christ...

...poor choice of words... sue me.

how about a bonafide fuckin' ace? does that suit you better.

either way, we haven't produced enough top pitchers.

oliver, pavlik, bohannon?... those aren't top pitchers.

by oc on Jan 9, 2008 11:47 AM CST up reply actions

If you are talking Bonafide Aces

I have no idea why you mentioned Rick Helling.

Competent Innings eater maybe.

But Ace?

Were you smoking a bowl when you wrote that, or taking a crap, or eating a sandwich?

"As of now they're (The Astros) world series favorites. Period." - Sharky

by DJCahill on Jan 9, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions

blah...

fuck you...

20-7 record... 200 innings+... 4 complete games... 2 shutouts... 4.40 ERA...

i'll take that from my number one any day of the week...

by oc on Jan 9, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions

I wonder

how many teams would be satisfied if their #1 starter only had an era+ of 109?

by jparks77 on Jan 9, 2008 3:24 PM CST up reply actions

Easy to win 20 games

when you get the Run Support SHelling got.

4.4 ERA is an ace? LOL.

"As of now they're (The Astros) world series favorites. Period." - Sharky

by DJCahill on Jan 9, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions

Harang in 2007

15 more innings and a 3.73 ERA in a park that's as tough on pitchers as the Ballpark, and just about the same in 2006. He's an ace.

The only thing he's missing is four wins, and that's because Cincinnati's offense isn't as good as the 1998 Rangers and because he's stuck with a pretty wretched reliever corps.

by a bebop a rebop on Jan 9, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions

Easy

There is a very large gap between bonafide ace and having mild success. Rick Helling was far from a bonafide ace. Harang and Young are much closer to aces than Helling.

by badradiorules on Jan 9, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions

the fact of the matter is

that none of the 3 of them are aces anyway...

honestly, who are the "aces" in the AL ?

santana
beckett
verlander?
liriano? (if healthy)
harden? (if healthy)
lackey
sabathia
haren (formerly)
bedard
felix?
halladay?

(i feel like im forgetting someone big here...)

by knockoutking24 on Jan 9, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions

Kazmir

makes that list as he enters his prime.

the one after 909

by t ball on Jan 9, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions

the question/answer

Is it fair to assume that Edinson Volquez (if he still qualified as a prospect) wouldn't have been ranked among the Reds' Big Four prospects (Jay Bruce, Homer Bailey, Joey Votto, Johnny Cueto) but ahead of Drew Stubbs? Would Volquez be a viable candidate for the Top 100 Prospects list?

Erick Metzger
Columbus, Ohio
Volquez has exceeded 50 major league innings, so he's no longer a prospect in our book. He definitely wouldn't have ranked ahead of Bruce, Bailey, Votto or Cueto, arguably the best foursome of prospects in any farm system right now. He probably would have settled in at No. 5, ahead of Stubbs, though I'm not the biggest Volquez fan in the world. I wouldn't have advocated him making the Top 100.

Volquez throws hard and has a nice changeup, but he never has shown a reliable curveball in the big leagues and his control and command always have been spotty. I see him more as a classic tease, a guy who can light up radar guns but never will be the frontline starter his velocity suggests he might become.

Trading Josh Hamilton to get Volquez made sense for the Reds, however. They had the second-worst ERA in the National League last year and more outfielders than they knew what to do with. Now Cincinnati has an opening for Bruce to play in the majors and another candidate for its rotation.

Considering that the Rangers have been on a perpetual search for pitching, however, shouldn't it tell us something that they were willing to part with Volquez?

by knockoutking24 on Jan 8, 2008 7:31 PM CST reply actions

It tells us two things.

Considering that the Rangers have been on a perpetual search for pitching, however, shouldn't it tell us something that they were willing to part with Volquez?

(1) The Rangers farm system has pretty good pitching depth.

(2) The Rangers farm system has no OF prospects ready for the majors.

Callis needs an update on the Rangers farm system.

If I owned a lightsaber, the blade color would be black light, so that I could use it to fight evil and to liven-up parties.

by rooster on Jan 8, 2008 8:45 PM CST up reply actions