Hicks Throwing JD Under the Bus
by FuturePants on Oct 1, 2008 10:38 AM CDT
253 comments
Not too surprising considering how Tom Hicks' favorite activity is seemingly to throw his coaches/management/front office under the bus (see: JD, Buck, that Liverpool GM, that Liverpool Coach, etc.); but on Norm's show just now, Hicks just blamed JD for making a terrible trade for BMac by giving up Danks and makes JD out to be a jerk and praises Nolan's "experience" and seems to suggest that with Nolan, these types of trades won't ever happen anymore.
-Laughs Sarcastically While Looking in the Air-
Anyways, nothing too new, as I said, nothing surprising, but even I still hold out hope for the extremely slim possibility that one day Hicks will just STFU.
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Here's what I want to know...
When Hicks tells someone like Norm Hitzges that Nolan never would have allowed John Danks to be traded, why doesn’t Norm (or whomever is asking the questions) ask him why that is?
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 1, 2008 10:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he might
want Hicks to be a guest in the future? Also, he doesn’t have a bailiff there to protect him when his nose gets punched while he’s conducting his cross-examination.
You know Hick’s answer would be, Ryan would provide veteran experience and advice, this advice and experience would allow the Rangers to make the correct decision, and, of course, the right decision was to keep Danks. Other than potentially hacking Hicks off, would that have produced anything for Norm?
by mcgee48c on Oct 1, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hicks getting mad
I doubt Hicks would get mad at a pretty innocuous question like that.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Oct 1, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If its so innocuous
why would it have been so cool if Norm had asked it? The implication of the question is that the questioner doesn’t believe that Nolan would be much help in this trade scenario, which is completely at odds with the premise of hiring Nolan. That’s not really very innocuous. A questioner has every right to state his opinion within his questions, but it rarely turns out innocuous.
Of course, I don’t condone owner violence nor am I completely serious about the anger, but I am inserting mild (very mild, obviously) humor concerning the tendancy for lawyers to come off as cross examiners in their blog entries.
by mcgee48c on Oct 1, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
why would it have been so cool if Norm had asked it?
I didn’t say it would be “cool.”
I want to know why Hicks is so sure these things wouldn’t have happened if Nolan had been here.
It seems like an obvious question.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 1, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So obvious
of a question that it would have had the same obvious answer that I outlined previously. Nolan’s a smart guy, smart guys help make good decisions, and the smart decision is to keep Danks. Are you advocating that Norm should have disputed that Ryan was a smart guy or that smart guys help make smart decisions? Should he have said that panning the Danks trade is an execise in 2020 hindsight? If not, why pursue this at all?
I don’t know that I agree that Nolan would be our fail-safe device or that I think that trading Danks was such a no-brainer mistake at the time the trade was made.
But your emphasis seems to be in catching Hicks without an answer and he would have a ready one.
by mcgee48c on Oct 1, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
x
Nolan’s a smart guy, smart guys help make good decisions, and the smart decision is to keep Danks.
Thus, by implication, you are saying that the current g.m. is not smart and doesn’t make good decisions…so why is he still here?
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 1, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hick's answer
wouldn’t be any better than what we get here on the same question. “Because Nolan knows pitching, etc.”
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know this dialog is
long over but I said no such thing. I was saying that he would just comment that Nolan adds to the decision making process to make it even better. Sort of like “if one is good, then two is twice as good”. Nothing of substance, but not an opportunity for an I gotcha, either.
by mcgee48c on Oct 1, 2008 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is an obvious question
I’d like to hear the answer too.
by SteveP on Oct 1, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
JD needs
to be thrown under the bus. I don’t see the problem with it. He has traded away a better rotation than he has.
Some folks seem to think that JD should be immune from criticism. He’s done some good things, he’s also done some bad things. Right now BMac-Danks is firmly in the bad things column.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 1, 2008 11:14 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I think
most would agree that JD deserves to be thrown under the bus for that trade. What I find annoying about it all is this notion that Nolan would never make a bad trade. It’s very frustrating.
But yes, JD deserves to be raked over the coals for the Danks trade. I’m a JD fan, but I said at the time of the trade that if it didn’t work out well it would be a fireable blunder. Now JD has done a lot of good work since then, and I would be upset if were let go, but honestly, trading away John Danks is enough to get any GM fired, imo.
by jthig32 on Oct 1, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's going to be tough
when you are always pitching shy, to trade away a much better rotation than the one you have, and keep your job. Had JD got the axe, he would have deserved it. Hopefully he can get things on track quickly, because time is probably running out for him.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 1, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Time running out
Yes. The guy’s GMing for his job this time. They can’t have April 2008 repeat next year. They can’t finish under .500 again.
He didn’t deserve to be fired this offseason, though. There’s a large scale plan he’s engendered that more than justifies his employment.
The LeBreton column today summed up the state of the team beautifully.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 1, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Daniels
desperately needs to find his own Danks deal. He needs to rob someone.
by clark on Oct 1, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not exactly
Atlanta received a very solid season from Mark Teixeira and two potentially useful players in Kotchman and the pitcher they received from the Angels (and truthfully, they should have received more). JD’s ability to handle last year’s trade deadline is the reason he kept his job through last offseason and (almost certainly) through this one, but he still has not made a winning trade during the offseason.
by clark on Oct 1, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
atlanta good...
until you look at what not moving him earlier cost the team.
tex was here a year too long, but JDs worst move to date forced that b/c AG was playing in san diego.
how JD did not think ahead more than 10 seconds and realize that tex would NEVER play an inning longer in texas than absolutely necessary amazes me.
even if it was a good trade (which is wasn’t), why do you trade a guy that figures prominently in your future.
the trade was good, but should/could have been better…
by sam in so cal on Oct 1, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully
someone in that trade does something in the majors.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 1, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Teixeira will
end up with more career Win Shares than all 5 players the Rangers acquired for him.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you mean
all 5 combined?
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Tex currently has 133 Win Shares and with good health, probably 10-12 more years in The Show.
Those 5 players combined will not catch him.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's entirely possible
but that would not change my mind about the trade. If it’s obvious he has not interest in staying here you get value out of him somehow. That was an excellent trade and I think any GM in baseball would have pulled the trigger on that one. It didn’t exactly help the Braves much, did it?
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
However
the value of the trade is the 1 1/2 years of win shares, versus the win shares generated in the first 6 years of all those players careers.
It really doesn’t matter how many WS Teixeira got for the Rangers as part of the trade.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 1, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only appropriate way to measure that
is the win shares he accrued over the last year and two months versus what the five get in their first six years.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But then his schtick wouldn't work
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 1, 2008 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what?
The Rangers made a good offer for Teixeira at 8/$140 and he turned it down. At that point, the Rangers either had to up the offer, or trade him. Thank God they didn’t make the same mistake they made with MY.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 1, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or boston?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 1, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say
he robbed Atlanta and Boston pretty good.
by Melmart1 on Oct 1, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
deadline deals
are a different breed. look at what the Dodgers gave up for half a season of Blake. as i stated above, I think the way he handled last year’s trade deadline bought him not just one, but two additional offseasons to show what he can do. But his inability to acquire an impact major league pitcher in any dealing (deadline or offseason deals, FA, waiver wire, you name it) looks like it will eventually cost him his job.
by clark on Oct 1, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you think CLE got fleeced?
by taking on a guy that was instrumental to their playoff success?
check lofton’s stats.
tell me again how CLE winning a playoff series against NYY was bad for the team…
that doesn’t happen without lofton.
i know it may be hard to understand deadline deals and what you need to give up for people here, but kenny lofton helped win more games for CLE last year in the post season than TEX has won ever.
lofton was absent games 5, 6, and 7 v. BOS, but there’s no game 7 (or BOS series for that matter) without lofton.
yeah, JD really kicked them in the nuts.
by sam in so cal on Oct 1, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For Half a Season
When the Rangers were not going to the playoffs and we get Max Ramirez and the Indians didn’t win either?
Yeah, I think Cleveland got fleeced. Lofton was a great player for us last season; he had many great offensive games. I really appreciated the half a summer he gave us, but we are much better with Max than Lofton, and Cleveland got nothing…they just gave Max away. How is that not huge upside for us and downside for Cleveland?
You guys want to look at deals from the back end with 20/20 vision, so let’s look at the Cleveland deal from the back end: it sucked for Cleveland.
by FuturePants on Oct 1, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHAT?
the indians DID win. what’s more, they won b/c of clutch hitting by lofton.
i think you grossly underestimate the value of:
1. making the playoffs
2. winning more than one playoff game
3. winning a playoff series
4. leading the ALCS 3-1
are you really saying that in retrospect, CLE would rather have Max than ALL of that?
good thing you aren’t a GM or people would be discussing your imminent termination.
i have no problem with you saying that it was good for TEX, but to say that it was bad for CLE may be one of the worst opinions i have read in recent memory.
i can’t fathom that you define being one game away from the world series as NOTHING.
ranger fans would give up on max for a lot less (and half the other players that may never pan out for that matter)…
by sam in so cal on Oct 1, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe you were in a coma last year...
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/playoffs/2007-10-15-red-sox-indians-alcs-game3_N.htm
this should help to see how important lofton was to cleveland’s post season success (which you called "nothing")
by sam in so cal on Oct 1, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is stupid
you don’t evaluate a trade based on how much you are robbing your trade partner, you do it based on if you are maximizing your own resources. In Lofton’s case, trading him for anything is better than not trading him as far as value is concerned. Getting Max just makes it a better deal.
The criteria of a good trade is not that you get more out of it than your trade partner, is how much more you get out of the deal than if you did not make the deal.
by Telegraph on Oct 1, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good post
I think the deal was good for the Indians and great for the Rangers. JD received the best possible return on an asset that held little value for the team, yet that same asset helped the Indians do what the Rangers never could…take a series from the Yankees.
But I am saying that JD has never stood toe to toe with another GM during the cold sobriety of the offseason and made a winning trade. He has gotten fleeced in the Young/AGon, and Danks deals when it was sadly apparent that he had no idea how to evaluate the potential of his own players, and he has come out even in the Hamilton deal (although again, judging by his comments directly after the trade, he still badly misvalued Volquez…he was just very fortunate/keen on judging Hamilton’s true potential).
by clark on Oct 1, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tap the brakes on Misvaluing Volquez.
If he is the 2.29 ERA pitcher he traded in the first half, then he misvalued him.
If he is the 4.6 ERA pitcher he was in the 2nd half, then he may have fairly valued him.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 1, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hamilton
well, if we’re taking 2nd halves, maybe we should discuss the 13/13 guy we got in return…
i know hamilton is a STUD, but his 13 rbi in august and 13 in september aren’t exactly how he started either…
there were a few people that were worried about hamilton being able to endure a full season. i was not one of them. i still hope that this was not the case, but i would hate to pile on edinson for his 2nd half without looking at the production we got from hamilton.
the rangers needed a good august to compete (however unlikely a playoff run was), and hamilton was sub-.250
by sam in so cal on Oct 1, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The RBI thing doesn’t really hold a lot of water. Him having a poor August does, although you’re shifting arguments around then. His second half was much less of a drop-off than Volquez’s.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i understand your point
i am saying that judging JD by his success on the CLE trade is not really an accurate assessment of his GM ability.
he didn’t get over on CLE – like SD got over on him, like CHI got over on him.
it was a good trade for TEX and i stated as much
it was facilitated by CLE being in contention and making an equally good trade for themselves.
clark’s point was that JD needed a one-sided deal where he looked like a clear winner, and TO THAT POINT i didn’t feel that the CLE was one-sided AT ALL.
clark mentioned that deadline deals are different (and by their nature i agree that sellers’ markets create good opportunities for sellers). GMs SHOULD be able to take advantage of other teams at the deadline. patting JD on the back for deadline deals gives him a little too much credit.
by sam in so cal on Oct 1, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would he need to do that?
If he just makes good decisions in general from now on, he would be a very good GM without having to “make up” for his mistakes earlier.
A GM’s past history should have no bearing on the evaluation of his present and future work. Every trade should be studied on a case-by-case basis. I am not concerned about having JD look like a clear winner, only that he makes well-informed decisions within the framework on a coherent organizational strategy from now on.
by Telegraph on Oct 1, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LAA
"Asphalt me, ben. Asphalt me good and hard." - brettgardner
by Chase Irwin on Oct 1, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bad things
I actually don’t have a problem with that trade, it was a calculated risk that didn’t payoff. I hate how it turned out, and in hindsight it’s obvious they weren’t ready to contend, but I’m not averse to having a GM willing to put his balls on the line like that.
My bigger issue with Daniels is roster management. I’m not sure he’s up to handling the 40-man as these waves of talent approach rule 5 status over the next few years. He’s had several missteps in that area and they can be costly.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like what?
I know about the Galarraga situation, but he’s seemed pretty conservative with the handling of the roster to me.
by brettgardner on Oct 1, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to speak for tball
But he’s probably speaking of the mismanagement of Tejeda in that situation as well. Choosing him over Galaragga, only to DFA him later.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 1, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that
and not just losing guys, but questionable decisions about who to call up when, etc. You could make strong cases for mishandling Cruz this year (should have come up sooner), and numerous decisions with pitchers. They’ve had some issues judging who to keep and who to jettison. That kind of thing will be much more critical in a year or two when more top level talent is at stake.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cruz
His injury was very untimely w/r/t playing with the ML club.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 1, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, a shame
but they could have brought him up before that injury.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cruz
Has only received lukewarm appraisal from Ron Washington. I don’t know if Wash doesn’t like him, or finds it hard to communicate, or what. It was telling that his end of season commentary on Cruz was that Cruz found out about Cruz. It was apparent to me, however poor my opinion may have been, that he ‘recognized’ what he had to do, and did it, long before his AAA injury. Maybe I was rash suggesting he start the year in RF, but I still think he should have been up NLT June 1.
Maybe he’s more popular and more desired elsewhere.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Oct 1, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cruz tore it up
from the get-go yet didn’t get the call until August.
Ed, you may be right about Washington towards Cruz.
Personally, I don’t know what to think about Cruz but I will now at least entertain the idea that he has a chance to be a good player in The Show which is 180 degrees different than I felt in March.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I took "Cruz found out about Cruz"
as a positive.
Meaning that everyone knew Nellie had the tools and ability, but he had to believe in himself first to suceed in the bigs. Also, “Cruz found out about Cruz” meant that he had to learn to listen to instruction, which he was finally forced to do after not being claimed when put on waivers.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
by Rodney on Oct 1, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Taking Wash’s comments as negative would be going in the other direction and coddling the player.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 1, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Ranger brass was as shocked
as I was that he turned it around and were damn lucky (maybe) nobody picked him up on waivers.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Missing on one starter
wouldn’t be a problem, its having almost a full rotation of pitchers out there who are better than anything you are currently fielding that gets you fired.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 1, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have an issue with him saying it was a bad trade
I do think, though, that if you feel the need to come on the radio and say that the trade was bad, and that Nolan Ryan would never have let that happen, then that’s probably not a good thing.
I think Hicks is trying to reassure people by saying that, but it makes it sound like he’s got a g.m. who doesn’t know what he’s doing and needs a babysitter, and if that’s what Hicks really thinks, he should go ahead and fire him.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 1, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Babysitters
Well, the manager had one so why not the GM too?
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Oct 1, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
You’re talking about a public perception problem. I doubt JD cares much, certainly not after taking responsibility for the deal.
Hicks may also be talking about Nolan having marginal pitching expertise to overrule opinions in favor of Danks for McCarthy, which is a good thing.
Or if this is about Nolan having a higher position than JD…that’s cut and dried reality. Quotes so far have been that JD still the guy making personnel decisions, though.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 1, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still don't know why...
…Hicks seems to be assuming that, with Nolan on board, every decision in the past that hasn’t worked out wouldn’t have been made, and (implicitly) no more bad decisions will be made going forward.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 1, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hicks is just like people that post here
Nolan played for a long time and is a baseball icon so of course he won’t ever make a mistake. It’s ok for fans to think that but having the owner feel the same way is a little scary.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Oct 1, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are a lot
of relevant people (ticket buying fans) who could use a little more reassurance than would normally be needed. He’s apparently endorsed a no change at the top policy that many will interpret as a do nothing approach.
As long as he leaves JD in place with at least a behind the scenes endorsement to pursue his plan, his actions toward the general public should be understood as some much needed PR.
by mcgee48c on Oct 1, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adam, this wasn't an off the cuff
unguarded moment by Hicks.
He said the something to the same effect in May of this past year but not specifically about Danks (this was before Danks exploded).
You’re right. It does make JD appear like he needs a babysitter.
Can you ever imagine John Henry saying the same thing about Theo Epstein?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course not
John Henry doesn’t have a problem with verbal diarrhea.
by Melmart1 on Oct 1, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
Theo Epstein is a good GM who delivers world championships. But the diarrhea thing, too.
by clark on Oct 1, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Epstein
also had a large, rabid fanbase with deep pockets, meaning more revenue, deeper coffers and a huuuge payroll to help him along. All things that the Rangers do not have.
by Melmart1 on Oct 1, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would this be a bad time to
mention that DFW is a larger media market than Boston?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which doesn't really change anything.
Their stadium sells out every game. Their top ticket prices are much higher than ours. They make more money, plain and simple.
by Athos on Oct 1, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, they make
more money but an owner that knew what the hell he was doing could turn the Rangers into one of the top 5-10 revenue producers.
Having a payroll equal to Minnesota & Milwaukee is nothing to brag about and that;s where Hicks is these days.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So it's Hicks' fault?
"Asphalt me, ben. Asphalt me good and hard." - brettgardner
by Chase Irwin on Oct 1, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so this wouldn't be a good time to mention that Texas was
19th in Revenue last fiscal year but Boston was 2nd ?
Or Texas was 23rd on operating Income(Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) while Boston was 12th, Milwaukee 10th and Minnesota was 19th?
The Rangers Don’t generate income at there current payroll. Attendance is poor and their TV contract is fairly pathetic.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/33/07mlb_The-Business-Of-Baseball_Revenue.html
by laxtonto on Oct 1, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where were the Dallas Mavericks & Dallas Stars in
revenue, say in 1995? Aren’t all those top 10 revenue producers these days?
Revenue is and has been down for the Rangers because a # 5 media market team has been run like the Reds, Pirates and Royals.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More to it than simple population counts
Boston has a looooooooong baseball history on TX, and a winning one, at that. There is just no way to compare that as a baseball market by just counting people. Come on, you’ve been to the ballpark in Arlington when Red Sox fans outnumber Rangers fans.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And why is that?
Hicks’ ineptitude has destroyed this franchise’s fan base with his on-going refusal to spend money, and continual never-ending mismanagement and poor judgment. Really, as long as Hicks owns the team, I don’t ever expect to see any playoffs again.
by SanDiegoKev on Oct 1, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
valid points
and I do not want to sound like Epstein never makes mistakes. But the Red Sox success is derived more from the crazy fertility of their farm system and Epstein’s uncanny ability to plug holes. He is essentially what JD is hoping to become.
by clark on Oct 1, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I think he has
the potential to be. THe Rangers’ farm system is arguably the best in baseball … that didn’t happen by accident and it sure as hell didn’t happen on the watch of JD’s predecessor. But the haters never bring that up when they run him under the bus tires.
by Melmart1 on Oct 1, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What JD needs, this year
is for his young pitchers to come up and prove that his revived farm system can equate to major league wins. He needs Hurley and Holland and Feliz to come up and provide the shot in the arm that Lester and Buccholz provided last year and Masterson provided this year. If he trades some of his farm surplus for a young pitcher, it needs to have Beckett like results and not Bedard (or BMac) like results.
by clark on Oct 1, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he rushes them,
he is just doomed to the same failure of Hart, et. al. Haven’t we had enough of rushing pitchers to appease in itchy fan base. All you are doing is prolonging the time it takes until they are truly MLB ready. If any of those pitchers is ready, call them up! But don’t do it just to look busy or like you are trying to fix things.
I don’t know why you seem so enamored with the Red Sox, but Buccholz was a complete bust this year, further proof that you can’t rush things. He clearly needed more time in the minors, no-hitter notwithstanding.
by Melmart1 on Oct 1, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Melmart,
I was merely listing the things JD needs to happen to keep his job.
If those young pitchers prove they are ready to contribute to a winning major league team, then he is okay.
If those young pitchers fail to develop, fall victim to injury, or are rushed and then fail at the big league level, and the team continues to lose because of pitching, then JD will be fired by this time next year.
I admit that there are aspects of this that are outside of his control, and that may seem unfair (look at the BMac deal). I also admit that the org can continue to infuse the lower levels of its minor league system with pitching, but if the team continues to lack big league pitching, the fanbase will not care and he will still be fired, and that may also seem unfair.
JD’s primary job is to win at the major league level, and to do that, he needs major league pitching. So far (and that is important here), when JD has “won” a trade, he has acquired hitters and prospects, and when he has “lost” a trade, he has lost pitching. Ultimately, that is like trading touchdowns for field goals.
by clark on Oct 1, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we can all rest assured
that JD and Wash have one more year, and maybe one half year, to turn things around.
And I am okay with that.
by clark on Oct 1, 2008 11:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
?
do you mean one more year OR one half year?
i certainly don’t think you mean 1-1.5 years
assuming you mean 1/2 – 1 year then i agree. i actually agree with a lot that you have said in this thread
JD has gotten away with several bad decisions, but his next is his (hopefully) his last
i think you said it best here:
Daniels desperately needs to find his own Danks deal. He needs to rob someone.
by sam in so cal on Oct 1, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should have been more clear
I mean he probably has until this time next year to turn things around, unless this team comes out limp at the gate again. then he may have even less time.
by clark on Oct 1, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clark, where does this
team get better if we’re essentially bringing back the same cast sans Bradley?
That means improvement has to be internal.
There are no sign posts of optimism that show me Washington is going to be better next year.
Improvement next year depends on JD fleecing somebody when everybody knows JD’s survival depends on scoring at least one starting pitcher that can impact the major league team. Do you really like the chances of that happening?
We’re on the 5 yard line and it’s 4th and 35.
Knowing that, why the F are they bringing back Washington & JD?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how this org plans to improve over the offseason
is a whole other debate.
I am not a huge Wash fan and won’t defend the decision to bring him back. I don’t really buy into the argument that the team “wouldn’t quit” under him. I would like to see a manager come in who can prepare a team to the point that we are not buried every April, and then we won’t have to worry about bouncing back every May.
With JD, as I said, I think he has one more offseason to build a decent team, and then he has to hope that his internal pitching options are ready to contribute at some point during this next season.
by clark on Oct 1, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just for discussion purposes
the team that “wouldn’t quit” on Washington finished this season on a 19-29 streak beginning with the game after CJ’s ball-flip to Washington.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but isn't that also about the time when injuries hit with a vengence?
by texnykazrus on Oct 1, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
can only blame so much on injuries
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 1, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no kidding
look at the injuries that the White Sox have suffered through, and the Angels, and the Red Sox.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Oct 1, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anytime a team is rebuilding
the improvement is expected to come from internal sources, i.e. current ML young players getting better with experience and MiL players developing to the point that they can contribute on the ML level.
I think its pretty simple.
by robert_d_wilfong on Oct 1, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
I think both JD and Wash have their jobs on the line this off season and early next year. I think if neither of their contracts are extended this winter beyond the years they have now, that confirms it. I have more hope for JD than I do Wash.
No one has said JD is not intelligent. If he learns from his mistakes, he still may be a good GM IMO.
by Jea103 on Oct 1, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the same problem with Wash
If Hicks/Noland think JD is not going to cut it, get rid of him now. The longer you tread water and rub your hands on this kind of issues, the longer we have to sit around in mediocrity thinking about 2 years down the line. If you think JD is the guy, then stop with all this nonsense.
by Telegraph on Oct 1, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a bad trade at the time...
At the time, the trade was not that crazy as far as one sidedness. If BMac could ever actually get healthy, no telling what he could do…I assume he could keep the 2007 Twins from scoring many runs.
The biggest gripe about the trade at the time, as far as I remember, was that we gave up a lefty for a righty. The rest seemed to be a fine move.
Either we blew the health evaluation of BMac, or our pitching coaches messed him up pretty good with jerking with his mechanics. I refer you to AJM’s article about the mysterious injuries and failure at the ML level by dozens of our pitchers. Who really knows, but point being the trade did not seem bad at the time.
Bad results are 20/20, and yes, the results are horrendous. I was sick all night after Danks put in that gem, but happy for him. I was also sick after seeing Danks destroy us in Texas earlier this summer. Does that mean JD needs to be tossed under the bus for it all? No. Bad trade in hindsight, didn’t seem to be a bad trade when made. That’s all I mean with regard to Hicks having the right to toss JD under the bus.
The Nolan Ryan stuff, however, is wholly different and 100% ridiculous.
by FuturePants on Oct 1, 2008 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Nolan wouldn't have traded Danks for BMac...
…and maybe he wouldn’t have done the Eaton trade either.
But maybe he also wouldn’t have done the Teixeira/Gagne/Lofton trades or the Carlos Lee trade. And maybe he wouldn’t have done Volquez/Hamilton and we would not have Josh but would still have the version of Edinson that he was when he was in Ranger blue.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Oct 1, 2008 11:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But with JD in charge of constructing
the pitching staff, we somehow give up 967 runs in the non-steroid era when HR’s are at a 15 year low.
That’s not easy to do.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give Fielding Its Due As Well
Don’t forget the fielding, either. Most errors in the AL this season. Lowest fielding percentage in the AL this season.
by Mister Naxal on Oct 1, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and why would volquez be the same here
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Reds switched his arm angle
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 1, 2008 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And in case Seth isn't familiar with the situation
what the Reds did was allow him to return to his arm angle that he was comfortable with and had always used before Connor forced him to change it and busted him back to a-ball to work on it.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also Irritating
Hicks mentioned how his payroll is bigger than Tampa and the Twins.
by FuturePants on Oct 1, 2008 12:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He bragged about how it was equal
to Minnesota & Milwaukee like that was a badge of honor.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He always brings up stuff like that
He makes it a point to make sure we know how much money he spends or doesn’t spend.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Oct 1, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob and Dan
I am curious to see how they pick apart Hicks’ appearance.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Oct 1, 2008 12:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
With the exception of the Chris Young trade ...
JD has not made a move that was obviously bad the moment he made it. We all sit here looking through hindsight and expect JD to have been able to see how events would unfold before they actually did. If there is a pattern evident with pitchers going elsewhere and succeeding, I think that reflects much more heavily on our scouting/coaching at the ML level and the high minors than on JD’s judgment. Any GM is going to be at the mercy of his talent evaluators when making a decision. As to pitching, JD has clearly received poor advice. It sounds like they are now taking steps to get the real problem—the poor coaching/scouting staff—rectified.
And let’s not forget that JD ended up trading for Feliz, who is a much more heralded than Danks ever was.
As to HIcks’ comments, he’s an idiot. I don’t think that fact can be disputed.
by Athos on Oct 1, 2008 12:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Soriano Trade
was awful at the time, awful in retrospect made much worse by the Jennings signing and eventual Galarrage DFA’ing.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Soriano trade wasn't awful at the time, unless...
you know which of him and Wilkerson would continue to be haunted by injury. They both had pretty serious issues, and Soriano got over his. Also, Galarraga was a nice prospect. The fact that they soured on him and made a ridiculous decision later on is its own issue.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree zywica.
Wilkerson was coming off an injury, reported to the team out of shape and was a terrible OFer while Soriano was going to a contract year. Four months into the ’06 season the Rangers had to cannabalize their system once again for a bat so they traded Cordero for Lee.
Awful trade at the time and in retrospect.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was a consensus
locally and nationally that it was a good trade at the time.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, no there wasnt
there were a bunch of kool aid drinking idiots who ignored a terrible injury history and the fact that his 35hr season came in puerto f’n rico in a band box. those people were all total dumb asses and there were a ton of them around here all chirping like birds about how great it was to get rid of sori.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Oct 1, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you kidding me?
25- 117
26- 115
27- 119
28- 103
those were his OPS+ the last 4 years before he came to texas
we didnt get him for his 35 hr year btw
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 1, 2008 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am not sure if that is entirely correct
but i do remember reading that people felt that was the best deal he could get during that off-season. Obviously, in hindsight, the better option would have been to hold off until the deadline, when he was in the midst of a great year vying for his new contract.
Soriano was very frustrating. I remember going crazy the summer before we traded him because Houston desperately needed a bat and had a hole at 2B, but nothing materialized. Then they made their miraculous run to the World Series and got swept by a White Sox team that only had to walk Berkman to shut down the Astros offense.
by clark on Oct 1, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you are looking in retrospect,
then let’s not forget the emergence of Ian Kinsler as a result of this trade.
by Melmart1 on Oct 1, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
to play devil's advocate
The Rangers could have pushed Soriano to LF and played Kinsler anyway.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not if Soriano had anything to say about it.
by Athos on Oct 1, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So why couldn't
the Rangers sack up like the Nationals did and tell him to get his skinny ass in LF?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because
he clearly didn’t want to be in Texas and was playing for a contract. There were also concerns he would have been an even bigger defensive liability in LF as he was at 2B.
Either way, we will never know if they could have gotten him to change his mind or not on that, so it is pure speculation on our part. But one thing that is not speculation is that Ian Kinsler became our 2B due to the departure of Soriano, and that is a big bright spot in the future of this organization.
by Melmart1 on Oct 1, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
There were also concerns he would have been an even bigger defensive liability in LF as he was at 2B.
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 1, 2008 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a problem with the Rangers
and will continue to be a problem if they can’t sack up and tell MY where he needs to play for the good of the team.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 1, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Oct 1, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he didnt.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Oct 1, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to start another issue
that you guys have probably debated ad nauseum, but the Cordero/Lee deal wasn’t particuarly unfortunate, so while that was part of the restrospect equation, I don’t see it as a big positive or negative factor.
But more to the point, yeah, Wilkerson was coming off an injury and later reported out of shape (which doesn’t count in the “at the time” evaluation), but Soriano was injured pretty seriously himself. Again, if you knew enough about their injury situations to know that Soriano would basically be ready to go by the start of the season and that Wilkerson would never be 100% in his time here, I can certainly acknowledge that you could have determined that that swap wasn’t going to do them good. I also think that they should be held accountable for Soriano’s switch once he left, which was obviously a good thing.
But unless you get all caught up in the Lee deal being awful, which, again, it wasn’t, I just don’t see that deal as much of a factor in how the 2006 season turned out or certainly how this era has gone. The cutting of Galarraga could be a much bigger mistake.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cannibalize their system
I’ll never understand this. If anything, that trade helped build the system up because of the draft picks that were used on Main and Borbon. Your revisionist history is ridiculous.
Also, you continually say that prospects are nothing more than “magic beans” but yet you complain about a system being “bombed back to the stoneage.” Which is it?
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 1, 2008 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I don’t know if I would call losing Laynce Nix and Kevin Mench “cannibalizing”
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 2, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
all we lost
was the chance to pick up an option on a RP who couldn’t pitch in Arlington
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Oct 2, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The irony of Nolan Ryan
This has been said before, but the thing I think is funny about Nolan being involved is that he’s basically the only reason that Daniels still has his job. He believes in continuity and said when he came on that the biggest problem with the organization was that it couldn’t stick with a plan – and while I don’t know that it was the biggest problem, he was dead on. Hicks would so be rid of Daniels for a veteran GM that it’s not even funny.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 12:30 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Excellent point.
"Asphalt me, ben. Asphalt me good and hard." - brettgardner
by Chase Irwin on Oct 1, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Nolan were here
would he have allowed the A-Rod trade, either to Boston or NYY?
Would Nolan have offered a verbal extension to the asst. GM only to turn around and resign the current GM, extend the manager only to fire him before the extension started?
And would Nolan have said that in order to increase revenue the fans must pay up first? Can you imagine any business, material/restaurant pushing that onto it’s customers?
Every time I think about how our future is bright I think of Hicks then wonder how he’ll screw it up.
by Taylor on Oct 1, 2008 12:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
make no mistake
Ryan was brought in here to mitigate not only the risks inherent with a young and inexperienced GM, but also the risks inherent with an owner with questionable sports industry acumen. Remember that Nolan has never handled the GM duties before, but he has owned two successful sports franchises.
by clark on Oct 1, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
jd deserves it
he has traded away ML studs and virtually hasnt brought in anyone who has produced at the ML level. im not saying those prospects wont produce, but they haven’t yet
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 3:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He virtually hasn't obtained Josh Hamilton?
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and how is his defense doin
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you don't think josh hamilton is good
so you are a moron?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Oct 1, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for the rangers, i'd rather have volquez
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which one?
The one that had a 2.30 ERA before the ASB? Or the one that had the 4.60 ERA after the break? That 2nd half lapse could be due to a number of things from arm fatigue to the NL beginning to figure Volquez out. If Volquez ends up being that first guy long term, you have a point. If he’s that second guy, then the Rangers are far better off with Hamilton.
by Athos on Oct 1, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hamilton trailed off after the ASB too
but even if volquez has an era of 3.50 to 3.75, i would rather have Volquez because of the Rangers need for pitching
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hamilton went
from a 919 OPS to an 874.
That isn’t going from great to below average like Volquez did.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 1, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i commented this above before reading it here.
i too am hesitant to jump on ev’s 2nd half without looking at hamilton’s.
the rangers had any chance of making a run come to an end in august. hamilton was sub-.250 in august with 13 rbi. that’s not exactly great.
his monster numbers early put him in a position to compete for rbi title even though he only added 13 more in september, so he’s still amazing.
by sam in so cal on Oct 1, 2008 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
volquez at 3.5 in the NL is not a 3.5 era in the AL
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 1, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay so
you’re so committed to this line of thinking that you’re willing to think of ways to argue that Hamilton isn’t good? Gee whiz.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol seriously?
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you are even considering his defense
as part of ifhe is good or if hes not thats dumb
what about volquez with the bat?
his value isnt drawn from his defense, its from his bat
same w/ volquez. arm not bat.
hamilton is a below ave CF and an avg center OF iirc according to +/-
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 1, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ooooooh you are totatally right
hitters should not be expected to field….same with pitchers hitting….i seee
geez, jason bartlett? elvus andrus? the young ken griffey? nah, who the hell needs fielding. not us. not the rays
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is the 3rd worst centerfielder in the big leagues.
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
more due to inexperience
and the whole not playing for a few years things. I hope the team works with him on that this offseason because he has the tools to be great defensively, but needs to work on his reads more.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Oct 2, 2008 1:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Milton Bradley's season was virtually not major league production?
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh he traded for him?
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When did you say "traded for"?
and virtually hasnt brought in anyone who has produced at the ML level
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"traded"
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has traded away ML studs and virtually hasnt brought in anyone who has produced at the ML level
read your own quote
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 1, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
see the traded part?
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
but he “brought him in” by virtually signing him.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in which we gave up money
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They pay the players?
Holy crap, what a revelation.
Go look up how many players had Bradley’s production for less money this year. And were available last winter. I’ll wait.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok and you go look up what John Danks and Adrian Gonzalez are doing
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't have to
they’ve done very well. I agree those trades were bad, but you’re basically saying Daniels has done nothing positive. Bradley and Hamilton were huge positives this year. Murphy also played quite well, and several young guys had nice first stints in the majors and look like contributors in the long run, including Daniels acquisitions Chris Davis, Tommy Hunter, and Matt Harrison.
I like balanced critique, not angry diatribes.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hate giving up money
mr. hicks gets mad and i don’t like a mad mr. hicks
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Oct 1, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are dumb
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you steal home?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 1, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes he is
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 1, 2008 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
no he can’t be…read my sig.
steal home passed away.. may he RIP
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Oct 1, 2008 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so we traded money
to sign someone.
what an idea!
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 1, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
coming from the guy
who thinks that hitters fielding is the same thing as pitchers hitting.
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You HAVE to be steal home
I’m convinced.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 1, 2008 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting Bradley & Hamilton wasn't exactly
finding diamonds in the rough.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 1, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't aware that free agent acquisitions were always about diamonds in the rough
by FuturePants on Oct 1, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
JD
lets see…
signings/trades that have brought in ML players who have succeeded without giving up a whole lot:
1-PADILLA for Ricardo Rodriguez
2-DAVID MURPHY, Engel Beltre, and Kason Gabbard for Eric Gagne
3-DUSTIN NIPPERT, i guess, for Jose Marte
4-MILTON BRADLEY
5-GARY MATTHEWS
6-MARLON BYRD
trades have brought in crap for ML players who have succeeded:
1-JOHN DANKS, Nick Massett, Jacob Rasner for Brandon McCarthy, David Paisano
2-KEVIN MILLWOOD
3-ALFONSO SORIANO for Brad Wilkerson, Armando Galarraga, Terrmell Sledge
4-Chris Young, ADRIAN GONZALEZ, Terrmell Sledge for Akinori Otsuka, Adam Eaton, Billy Killian
5-CHRIS YOUNG, Adrian Gonzalez, Terrmell Sledge for Akinori Otsuka, Adam Eaton, Billy Killian
6-BRIAN SHOUSE for Enrique Cruz
7-ROBINSON TEJEDA
8-MICHAEL YOUNG re-signing
i think i’d rather have the bottom half and not the top plus the bad siginings, or is that just me?
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're very selective with that ML player list
Matt Harrison, Milton Bradley, Josh Hamilton, Chris Davis, Tommy Hunter, Max Ramirez and a host of guys in maybe the top minor league system in baseball.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and also i would say that if your gonna consider the trades
of cy/adrian gonzalez on one side consider them on the other side as well. aki had some pretty good years
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 1, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he did, but hes not here now
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither is Gary Mathews
But he made your list
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 2, 2008 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"signings/trades that have brought in ML players who have succeeded without giving up a whole lot:"
Matt Harrison. we didnt’t give up a whole lot but he hasnt succeeded yet.
Milton Bradley. is on there.
Josh Hamilton. gave up volquez.
Chris Davis. didnt “trade” or “sign” him
Tommy Hunter. didn’t trade or sign him, and he hasnt done anything at the big league level yet
Max. hasnt done anything at the big league level yet
seiously dude, if you are gonna critique it then at least read it.
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harrison
9 wins at the big league level as a 22 yr old is failing. You’re right.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 1, 2008 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a 5.69 ERA is not succeeding. are you really basing a pitchers performance based on wins?
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not failure
Go look up Glavine’s ERA his first year.
If you think Harrison failed this year, then why watch baseball at all? You’ll be constantly disappointed.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 2, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes because no one has ERAs better than 5.69
and im pretty sure there are lots of guys who have had bad ERAs their first year
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 2, 2008 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I'm pretty sure there are lots of gjys who have had bad ERAs their first year."
Exactly my point. His “bad” ERA is not a failure. He’s 22 years old, he made the majors for the first time and held his own. That is not failure by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 3, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok but a 5.69 ERA is not producing, when im talking about "ML players who have succeeded" im not taking into account age because the scoring in baseball doesnt either
also….a lot of guys have had bad ERAs their first year, and most of them continued to be BAD.
just using one guy as an example, John Wasdin had an ERA of 5.69 his first year and his career ERA ended up being 5.28, which is NOT producing. Tom Glavine may have been bad his first year, but that doesnt mean that everyone who does bad their first year is gonna have a good career……use logic.
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 3, 2008 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to take performance into context
Nobody was expecting much of him mainly because of his age, and he held his own at the ML level. That is not “failure.” It may not be a complete success, but it’s not a failure.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 4, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT ITS NOT PRODUCING, IN THE GAME OF BASEBALL
IN THE GAME OF BASEBALL, IF A RUN IS GIVEN UP BY A 22 YEAR OLD, IT COUNTS JUST AS MUCH IF A 32 YEAR OLD GAVE IT UP
HEY MAY PRODUCE LATER BUT MAY NOT
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 4, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are an idiot.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 4, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you finally see that a 5.69 era is not producing
CONGRATS.
I understand what you are saying about him being pretty good for a 22-year old rookie but he has not produced like a good major leaguer would yet
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 4, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Davis
was a draft pick. They have to sign draft picks. Ditto Tommy Hunter. These two plus Max and Harrison are ML ready players with good ceilings.
Seriously dude, if you are gonna argue about trades and signings, have some basic understanding of player value.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ohhh right, they are free agent signings
and what have Max and Hunter done in the big leagues?
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Id say making the big leagues a year after being drafted is something
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 2, 2008 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah and
only a fool would look at Max’s 2008 and say “what has he done?”
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 2, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he MAY do things in the big leagues later but until he does, hes not a good major league player
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 2, 2008 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Listen Steal Home...
Your argument is ignorant at best. According to you Evan Longoria and Joba Chamberlain weren’t good players last year. Do you see how stupid you sound?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 3, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
Juan dominguez also wasnt good his rookie year and same with jason botts and john koronka and john rheinecker and freddy guzman and etc.
until they are good, they are not good
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 4, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
did we trade for him? was he a free agent signing? what was his ERA when he was up here? wasnt there a guy on the nationals who made the big leagues the year he got drafted?
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 2, 2008 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How so?
Setting aside the fact that is seems completely impossible for you to ever admit that some of Daniels’ transactions have actually worked out well…
Bradley was a big question mark with health and temperment concerns last winter. His year with the Rangers was a big success, and he didn’t cost much.
Hamilton obviously had big question marks surrounding him and had a terrific year and seems to fit in well in the Rangers clubhouse to boot.
Both men were most certainly diamonds in the rough last year at this time, and both acquisitions are unqualified successes.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait for it....
His year with the Rangers was a big success, and he didn’t cost much.
would that be considered finding a diamond in the rough?????
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 1, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said just above
Why can’t you just stick with your central and valid opinion that Daniels performed so poorly (particularly early on, my emphasis) that he doesn’t deserve to still be GM and not weaken your argument by denying anything positive that the guy has done? There is plenty to complain about without going overboard and while acknowledging that he did some things right. I absolutely hate Buck Showalter, was so happy when he was fired, and would die if he were brought back at any point, but it’s not like I can say that he didn’t do one thing right while here. He was just an overall negative influence on the organization, as you guys think that Daniels is.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i love bradley
but the team could have missed the playoffs without him
going forward, what value does bradley provide this team?
if we are correct in assuming that there was NO market for him at the break, i have difficulty understanding how his wonderful season helps.
attendance was abysmal – didn’t help there.
the team struggled through august while mb sat on the bench.
sure, he was good when he played, but are the rangers better next year b/c of his presence this year?
by sam in so cal on Oct 1, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reason that he's valid in that discussion
is that these guys tout dealing away guys like Cordero and Soriano among Daniels’ big mistakes. The theme is that his deals traded away good players, and the way to brush aside what everyone knows have been good moves more recently is to just ignore anyone who isn’t contributing to the major league team. It’s ridiculous to me, but if you’re even going to try to have a discussion with someone with this stance, and Cordero and Soriano can be counted as negatives and Neftali Feliz and Derek Holland can’t be counted as positives, it’s only logical that guys like Bradley have to be on the table.
If you and I are having a reasonable, rational, sincere back and forth, we are both concerned with the condition this team is in moving forward, as you said, and Bradley really isn’t on the table, while Feliz and Holland most certainly are.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you really saying MB has been worthless this year?
Because thats what it sounds like.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 2, 2008 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, he's been great
so what?
is this team better today because he was here yesterday? seriously?
beyond his one good season, what value does MB bring our franchise?
it was a one year deal that so far has not amounted to anything else.
MB was an above average player (when he played) on a team that accomplished nothing, so it’s hard to get real excited about his season. he was great, but so what? what value does he bring going forward?
am i glad he was here? CERTAINLY. but, i can’t spend more than a second getting excited because he brought no lasting value to the franchise.
by sam in so cal on Oct 2, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He will get us draft picks
He helped this Ranger team score an incredible amount of runs which kept us from challenging the Mariners for worst record in the AL.
He provided protection for Hamilton in the lineup
His plate discipline seemed to wear off on others as the Rangers drew a ton of walks this year which should help us down the road
And the main part is he didn’t block any young player. If you don’t have an everyday person at a position going into the season and you don’t have a young player thats ready then guys like Milton Bradley are perfect pieces for teams. Some people will say he blocked Nelson Cruz which I disagree with. I don’t see how the DH blocks a guy who would be brought in to play RF. Nelson Cruz blocked Nelson Cruz. His injury in August came at the absolute worst time. And prior to that the Rangers were in contention, no matter how much you think we weren’t we were, and I don’t blame a team that has seen a guy have chance after chance to play previously and did nothing with those chances stay in the minors.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 2, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i completely understand your point
and for the most part i agree, BUT
the team was 22 games out of first and 17 games out in the wild card
and in august (when you said that the rangers were in contention) MB was a fixture on the bench.
he was good, but his presence (depending on what happens with draft picks which pan out maybe 50% of the time???) was a nice addition but not relevant to this team going forward.
by sam in so cal on Oct 2, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a run is a run
You think him helping the team win games in May wasn’t helpful to the team’s record in September?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Oct 2, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
if you give him credit for wins in may, then make sure you blame him for losses in august.
the wins were as much his doing as the losses were.
steve pointed to MB protecting hamilton (something i brought up before and was presented with insurmountable evidence that historically that just isn’t true). MB and hamilton were both effective in may AFTER the 7-16 start, so for the sake of argument let’s assume MB “helping the team win games in May” was a reality. in august, with MB playing sporadically, he (bradley) obviously contributed little. meanwhile hamilton was .243 with 13 rbi for the month.
look, i have already conceded that MB was good/maybe borderline great this year (when he played). i am not saying that his signing was bad. it was awesome. that being said, it does little for this team going forward. it was a nice season… now what??? i have trouble getting excited about a guy who had a good year with the team but left us nothing (except possible draft picks that may/may not ever play at the major league level).
good signing – yes.
something to get excited about in 2009 and beyond – not so much.
You think him helping the team win games in May wasn’t helpful to the team’s record in September?
you know that the rangers were 4 games under .500, 22 games out of first and 17 games out of the wild card, right?
is this something you are “happy excited” about?
we improved 4 games this year. wow!
we were 3 games closer in the wild card. wow!
we were 2 games FURTHER back in the division.
you are right, we couldn’t have done this without bradley…
obviously i am being sarcastic (slightly), but despite what he brought to this team (which after reviewing the previous statements seems like a negligible contribution to the team’s record and competitiveness), WHAT DOES HE DO FOR US GOING FORWARD?
to bring this back to topic – give JD credit for a good signing, but in NO WAY does this bolster a guy’s credibility relative to some of the abysmal trades that have happened on his watch.
by sam in so cal on Oct 2, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Bradley was signed for not too much money and not too much time and played very, very well while here. He was a positive influence on the players around him and it can only help that the young players saw him up there taking pitches and controlling the plate. How on earth is that not a good signing?
Milton Bradley is one of the best free agent signings by ANY team in 2008. Name one team that would not love to have that kind of offense at that price. I understand the idea of getting prospects in return for guys that won’t be around long term. But that is not the only way a player can help, and you’re being extremely short sighted here. You’ve taken a principle way too far.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 2, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
f-
i said no fewer than 4 times in the last post that MB was a good/great signing
including:
look, i have already conceded that MB was good/maybe borderline great this year (when he played). i am not saying that his signing was bad. it was awesome.
i just don’t think we need to have a JD wet toast party over a guy that contributes little if anything going forward.
if the best thing you can say about MB’s impact on the future rangers is that they will take more pitches, i would say that you are REALLLLLLLY reaching.
an equally compelling argument would be that his antics in KC with the broadcaster erased any influence he had on the young guys. his lack of presence on the field after the all star break set a bad example – both fairly weak arguments but not as weak as the now-common “he taught plate discipline” rationalization.
HE WAS A GOOD SIGNING.
jd’s inability to get players at the deadline greatly diminished the impact MB makes going forward.
one more time:
I LIKE MB. HE WAS GREAT HERE (for one year). how does this help us REALISTICALLY going forward?
fwiw – rudy should be responsible for plate discipline, and if he is unable to perform that task then he should join millions of americans in the unemployment line.
Milton Bradley is one of the best free agent signings by ANY team in 2008. Name one team that would not love to have that kind of offense at that price
want to rethink that?
either JD made a tremendous blunder with a non-trade or we need to believe that 30 teams disagree with you.
for the sake of argument, let’s assume that there were at least 10 teams in contention that would have been interested in “the best free agent signing in 2008.” are you telling me that while he was so great, not one team made a reasonable offer? ok.
by sam in so cal on Oct 2, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a DH
Name an AL team in contention that had a need for a DH.
Prediction: [crickets}
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Oct 3, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe the blame does go on JD
but only because terrible terrible pitching coaches ruined so many of your pitchers.
it’d be one thing if they were all like chris young who showed that he was getting better and the rangers traded him right before he hit his peak.
the last two rangers pitchers traded that went on to do good things were pitchers that had a decent amount of time here and were mediocre – then went elsewhere and became amazing. and we have Bmac getting so much worse.
I think there is enough evidence at this point to say that EV and Galarraga are not his fault, and you could further say that Danks in Texas might not have been nearly as good as the Danks in Chi.
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Oct 1, 2008 3:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No, that's being too nice
I defend some of Daniels’ deals, but you’re almost totally letting him off the hook for bad decisions. Volquez netted Hamilton and should be considered a success. Galarraga is regrettable, but hardly a disaster, and he’s just another 5th starter. But the Danks-McCarthy deal was made for the wrong reasons and has obviously been a disaster.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you pay big bucks
for fifth starters like Millwood, letting go of a cheap fifth starter really looks bad.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 1, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say the Gallaraga deal is a disaster for us...
…because holy shit could we have used a 5th (or 6th, 7th, 8th, 17th) starter this year. It was an awful move to let him go to make room on the 40 for Jennings. It makes it worse since we needed him – or anyone – so badly this summer.
by FuturePants on Oct 1, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
but also hindsight is 20/20
if anyone thought he would be this good they are a liar.
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 1, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Total hindsight disaster.
Just exactly like BMac for Danks.
by FuturePants on Oct 1, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GMs who make a lot of hindsight disasters
also get fired.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 2, 2008 4:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what about hindsight steals?
You guys are refusing to count it both ways and that is ridiculous.
by FuturePants on Oct 2, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hindsight steals can save a job.
It’s just that JD doesn’t have enough hindsight steals to make the team a winner.
In the big boy world of GMs, you pretty much need to win to keep your job, and if you aren’t winning because deals worked out bad in hindsight, or you were unlucky with injuries, that’s tough luck, and you will eventually be fired.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 2, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just like anyone that thought jennings
was worth ANYTHING was an idiot
by sam in so cal on Oct 1, 2008 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Jennings was thought about very highly
as a great buy low canidate low finical risk vs.high reward ratio. Don’t forget that Texas ended up with Jennings after at least 7 other teams were looking at him. Sometimes those deals just don’t work out.
Rokies, Mets, Nats, Astros, Rangers, Mariners, Padres, and Phils that i can easily find.
A lot of other people thought that maybe Jennings signes the 4M deal as a home town discount. Amazing how easily revizionist history can kick in….
by laxtonto on Oct 1, 2008 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rumors are rumors, facts are facts
how many teams signed jennings? as far as i can tell, texas was the only team that committed to jennings. the other teams apparently thought better of it.
he was probably one of the worst pitchers i have watched and one of the primary reasons this team started out so horribly.
what a complete failure for anyone that was involved in bringing him in
by sam in so cal on Oct 1, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So since only 1 team signed him, the other teams where right?
If you read most of those articles, several teams as much offered more money, but Jennings wanted to stay in Texas. Its not like the Park negotiations or Arod Negotions where Texas was 20% higher than everyone else.
Same thing with Mark Prior, Freddy Garcia, Bartollo Colon…. Some pan out most dont. The Chris Carpenter’s of the world make up for all the Jason Jennings. If you want to complain Jennings that fine, but don’t complain about the signing, complain about the fact that he pitched and continued to pitch injured. Or Complain about the fact that a reclamation project was slated to be in starting rotation in a rebuilding year. Never mind, rebuilding years are when you take chances on injured starters to try to find one for long term.
As far as worse pitcher to watch, I guess you didn’t see Mendoza get lit up like a Chrismas tree…
by laxtonto on Oct 2, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but all of those deals are colored by the lens...
of what a pitching coach does with your pitcher.
- We thought BMac would be a lot better than what he turned out to be
- Possibly, we thought Danks wasn’t going to be as good as what he is now because nobody taught him to throw a cutter
- We had seen a pretty mediocre Galarraga pitch for us and weren’t impressed
- We though Young would have longevity problems
- We thought Volquez would always be erratic
Most of that information has to come from the pitching coaches. JD’s moves are only as strong as his scouting (internally and externally). Now, some of those moves, even we could spot as dumb (Eaton) but some of those moves, on face we thought they were correct.
I doubt anybody told JD that EV would turn into a premier pticher and I just wouldn’t put that at his feet.
What I would say is that he needs to assess the situation correctly – and fire anyobdy an deverybody who had anything to do with pitcher assessments the last 5 years. Whoever backed the Eaton trade, whoever told him Jennings over Galarraga, all need to be fired. I’m hoping that the problem was Chiti/Connor but I bet there are still some in the minors who also have had a hand in the Rangers pitching ineptitude
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Oct 1, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pitching coach is no excuse for the GM
Conor was retained by JD and forced onto Wash’s staff, any harm that Conor did goes directly at the feet of JD.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Oct 1, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
sure
i’m not saying pitching coach isn’t JD’s fault. I’m just saying that that is the correct blame, not that JD was dumb. You aren’t dumb for trusting people you delegated certain powers to. You are dumb if you keep trusting those guys after they’ve completely botched a trade.
Also, that goes to the point about Nolan being any better. I doubt Nolan would have trumped a Connor or Chiti (or scout) if they had said BMac was going to be better than Danks.
BTW, does anybody doubt that someone said that?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Oct 1, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only should no one doubt it
we had the attributed quote in the papers from one of the lead advisors, a guy who was like 70 years old and one of the most respected long time scouts in baseball.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and JD shoudl can him
And I’m fully on board with saying that JD doesn’t do nearly enough of that stuff. I think he thinks because he makes mistakes, that he should allow others to make mistakes. That’s not a good management style
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Oct 1, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And who knows?
Maybe if they don’t mess with BMac’s delivery and take his legs almost completely out of the equation, he surpasses Danks from the beginning. JD sure as hell didn’t tell Connor et al to monkey with BMac’s mechanics … or Hurley’s … or (insert virtually any other pitcher’s name).
by Athos on Oct 1, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hurley - sigh
another reason that the problems need to be identified right away. We could swap front offices with Boston and we’d still have problems putting together a good pitching staff if our pitching coaches keep ruining our pitchers.
I feel like it is going to take Hurley being completely average, getting traded, and doing well to finally drive home the point. Hopefully it doesn’t plague Feliz and Holland
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Oct 1, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like it is going to take Hurley being completely average, getting traded, and doing well to finally drive home the point. Hopefully it doesn’t plague Feliz and Holland
Well, I am officially panicked.
by FuturePants on Oct 1, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahhhh yes, its all the pitching coaches
GMs should not be accounted on for evaluating talent
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do GM's evaluate talent
are they the ones sitting with radar guns in the stands?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Oct 1, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who hires those guys sitting with radar guns in the stands?
who trades away players based on how the GM thinks they will do in the future?
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently
Nolan Ryan from now on.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The GM is the head of baseball operations
He’s responsible for basically everything, whether directly or indirectly. No one in this thread has debated that at all.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exaclty, so if the pitchin coach screws up, the GM hires the pitching coach, so the GM should take most of the blame
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
by Seth. on Oct 1, 2008 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep he should
though indirectly.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we can start calling him...
teflon jon
by sam in so cal on Oct 1, 2008 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be curious
To know how commenting on a trade that didn’t work out is “throwing JD under the bus”. I guess it would depend on the tone used, or ?? I guess I just don’t live in an all black or all white polarized world. Shades of gray, people, shades of gray.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Oct 1, 2008 6:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This isn't a comment on the title
but where I think he’s throwing Daniels under the bus is in saying that mistakes that Daniels has made in the past won’t be made in the future because of Ryan’s presence. That’s pretty clearly criticizing the judgment of your GM, whose primary job description involves making those calls. It’s also an unfortunate thing to say, since one of those mistakes and in fact the most needless one, cutting Galarraga, took place since Nolan’s been here to look out for him.
Acknowledging a mistake isn’t throwing him under the bus. Saying that he has to be protected from repeating it is.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 1, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the whole babysitting mentality comments
…which throw JD under the bus and seek to undermine anyone’s confidence and his authority. It’s unnecessary and stupid. But then again, Tom Hicks is unnecessarily stupid, so there you go.
by FuturePants on Oct 2, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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