OT: Election & Economy Extravaganza
by TheBZA on Oct 1, 2008 7:09 PM CDT
628 comments
I figured someone might as well start one up. A lot of craziness going on with the election and economy. I have to admit I'll be relieved when both of these things shake out. I'm going to keep it simple a post a few links I found interesting the past few days. I guess we should keep this somewhat civil. Flame away for my early 20's, liberal slant.
FiveThirtyEight's projections for the day.
Keyshawn Johnson gets owned by T.O.
P.S. Where's Sharky? I haven't seen him in about a month outside of football threads.
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Make your popcorn
and watch the VP debate tomorrow night. I fully expect Biden to choke on his foot and Palin to continue to sound like a beauty queen answering a pagaent question about world peace.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 7:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"i believe children are our future"
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 1, 2008 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see it live
But I’m going to Nine Inch Nails instead.
I’m sure she’ll give an answer on the level of “South Africa and the Iraq”, though.
by venturafearsnolan on Oct 1, 2008 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep...
I’ll have to record it as well.
I’ll be at the Oregon State v. Utah game.
I think it is going to be one of the more interesting VP debates of recent memory.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 1, 2008 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn
I hadn’t seen that Owens quote about Johnson. He’s right to say it. I’ve noticed a distinct anti-T.O./Cowboys bias from Johnson. Sad, really.
In other news, this next month can’t go by fast enough. Then we can all stop pretending that we know all the answers and slip back into our more comfortable and natural position: lazily glossing over the news and attaching blame for any problem to whichever party is the opposite of the one we had drilled in us as kids.
Those will be happy days.
by brettgardner on Oct 1, 2008 7:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Question...
not trying to flame any on party, but I came across the NY Times article from 1999, which basically predicts what happened…..anyone care to comment?
Fannie Mae, the nation’s biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.
‘’From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,’’ said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ‘’If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.’’
Granted, there’s plenty of blame to go around — from greedy Wall Street types, to those who didn’t make any changes in policy for the last 10 years or so. But, I’ve read in more than one place that the genesis of all this was that the Dems (namely Clinton’s administration) where the ones pushing for Fannie/Freddie to loosen their requirements for loans.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 1, 2008 7:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Again, a lot happened after that
They didn’t need any further incentive from government to get into what they got into. As real property soared in value, they thought they could get away with making a loan to anybody and their dog. Then all these subprime mortgages were all put in these crazy bundles and traded around all over the place. Just a lot of bad decision making.
by Black Francis on Oct 1, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
colossal fail by clinton
but when you run budget surpluses, you can afford huge social programs.
by SteveP on Oct 1, 2008 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but don't underestimate the role of
derivatives in allowing the private sector to join in the party as well. Oh we’ll offset this risk with a credit default swap. Of course who knows if the insuring party has the means to pay. All unregulated thanks to Greenspan and good ol’ Phil Gramm.
by SteveP on Oct 1, 2008 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One problem
That indeed was one problem, but by itself wouldn’t have caused us to be in this situation if that was the only thing. The biggest problem was the combination of Fannie/Freddie and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999. It passed with so much support in the Republic held Congress it was veto proof. Nothing Clinton could have done there. Those 2 things plus artificially low interest rates thanks to Greenspan created our current mess. Plenty of blame on both sides of the aisle for this one.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Oct 2, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly the biggest problem
was the heavy marketing of Mortgage Backed Securites. In order to sell Mortgage Backed Securities, you needed Mortgages. Since Mortgage originators could fairly easily flip the mortgage, and not get stuck with the downside of default, credit quality got crappier and crappier.
The demand for mortgages pretty much guaranteed that a stack of extremely dicey mortgages would get written.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 2, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just now reading the
FactCheck.org link below which kind of debunks my theories but not my conclusion. There is a lot of blame to go around and it’s pointless to start pointing fingers now when we need things fixed.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Oct 2, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is a link attaching blame to the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act as well as to the Republican party.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Oct 2, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I don't think you can blame this on too much legislation
there wasn’t any legislation that forced car dealers to write dicey car loans, but Bill Heard went ahead and did it anyway.
If you have to blame anyone, probably blame Greenspan for keeping interest rates too low.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 2, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are the problems
with it? I don’t go there much, but I haven’t heard of any thing wrong.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 2, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duh.
It said something he disagrees with.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw a great comparison of this whole mess somewhere
can’t remember where. Anyway they said it’s like if you make 30k a year and go out and buy a Ferrari, even though you know you can’t afford it. Well as soon as your first payment comes up, the gov’t says “It’s ok, we will pay it off for you.” So then what do you do? Go out and buy more stuff because the gov’t is going to bail you out.
by TxStCa on Oct 1, 2008 8:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bill passes senate
I’ll keep my fingers crossed that the House doesn’t screw it up now.
by robert_d_wilfong on Oct 1, 2008 9:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I haven't gotten to pay attention to the news much today
But why is the Senate voting on this? All appropriations have to originate in the House of Reps. I believe that’s in the Constitution and everything.
by Black Francis on Oct 1, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Senate
Actually wrapped the bailout in a defunct and useless House energy bill that started in the Senate last year. It had a few few tax provisions from the House, so it qualified.
They then stripped all other provisions and just amended the thing to include all bailout provisions.
Weird, but clever.
by brettgardner on Oct 1, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those wiley Senators
…always have something up their sleeves.
by Black Francis on Oct 1, 2008 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Palin
The expectations for her are so low if she completes one sentence without stumbling the media will say she’s the winner. It’s sad that Biden can’t challenge her on anything tomorrow tonight without being called a sexist
by Monkey Brain on Oct 1, 2008 9:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Without being called a sexist...
I don’t really think that’s the issue. George Bush is a man, and look at all the problems Gore had in his debates with him. These things are graded on a curve… nobody expects anything of Palin, so if she does okay, it’s a fantastic night for her.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 1, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course...
You are going to be standing out there with your Palin pom-poms waving…
Of course, it is nice to see you’ve gravitated from how great she is to, “Well, she’s not as bad as everyone is acting like she is…”
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 1, 2008 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
She's
Impossible to defend. That seems like a nonpartisan thing to me.
by brettgardner on Oct 1, 2008 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever, dude.
You always read things into my positions. “That dog has a puffy tail,” becomes “All dogs have puffy tails.”
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 1, 2008 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Palin comes out
with here Pom Poms waving, I might vote for her.
It’d be more than I got out of any VP. Sure she’d be the Dan Quayle of VPs, but that’d still be better than Darth Cheney.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 2, 2008 4:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is it good...
…to say:
nobody expects anything of Palin, so if she does okay, it’s a fantastic night for her.
that makes for a great campaign motto:
mccain/palin ’08 – exceeding your lowered expectations
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Oct 2, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's my choice...
…for the first question of the VP debate:
Should an artificial intelligence that is self-aware and capable of passing the Turing Test be given civil rights? What about the right to vote?
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 1, 2008 10:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In what respect?
Let me get back to you.
by SteveP on Oct 1, 2008 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice
You’d get great answers in response
Biden would make some bad joke that someone boring is actually a robot and votes as far as he knows already.
Palin would ask “what’s a turing test?”
by JBImaknee on Oct 1, 2008 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
She obviously knows what a Turing Test is.
She reads every newspaper. Every. Single. One.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 1, 2008 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"But which one's specifically"...
My hell, I’ve never seen another person look more like a deer in headlights than she did in that Couric interview.
“I’ll get back to you on that”. Anyone think she says that again tomorrow?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 2, 2008 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was once interviewed by TV folks
coming out of Vladamir Putin’s talk at Rice. I had the same deer in the headlights look, and looked and sounded incredibly dumb (maybe it was shock from looking through his eyes into his evil soul).
But of course, I’m not running for Vice President.
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll bet that was...
an interesting speech to be at.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 2, 2008 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was right after 9/11
but all he really talked about was oil and energy (it is Houston after all). I was hoping for something more profound, but you take what you get. He didn’t come across nearly as evil as he does now (of course), but he wasn’t exactly comforting up there either. I actually think this was right around Bush’s famous “looked into his eyes” moment.
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That guy is old-school KGB
…right down to the marrow of his bones.
by Black Francis on Oct 2, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
VP Debate...
Anyone have a problem with Gwen Ifill moderating the VP debate tomorrow night? Not exactly an impartial party is she?
by Topgun22 on Oct 1, 2008 10:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No
Jim Lehrer(sp) ain’t exactly a neocon.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Oct 1, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, but...
The sales of her book are likely directly tied to Obama winning the Presidency, thus she has an actual direct financial interest in the outcome tomorrow night.
by Topgun22 on Oct 1, 2008 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's
Tenuous at best. It’s really pretty insulting, actually.
by brettgardner on Oct 1, 2008 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Insulting?
How do you figure? What did I say that was false?
by Topgun22 on Oct 1, 2008 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
False?
Well false implies an actual knowledge. You just gave an opinion, so that’s not false.
What’s insulting is that you’re questioning her professionalism because of some tenuous association with an upcoming book which is not a biography of Obama in any sense.
In a practical sense, don’t you think that if a moderator made some silly show of asking much tougher, pointed questions to one candidate or another that it would really just become a story about the moderator, and not about the substance of the debate?
It’s a paper argument. There’s nothing behind it.
by brettgardner on Oct 1, 2008 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why should people's professionalism not be questioned?
Does clipping on a media badge make you immune from criticism? She wrote a book about Obama – she thrust the question of her politics into the dialogue. If you are moderating a debate, your credentials as “fair” should be assessed – both campaigns would be stupid not to ask those questions about the moderators.
Now, I don’t think writing a book in and of itself makes you biased. But I guarantee if some commentator X’ was authoring a book called “John McCain – the Maverick of the 21st Century,” Obama’s camp would wonder whether they should be asking the questions.
I think it is silly myself, but it fits into a global message the McCain camp is using, so I don’t see how anyone can be either surprised, much less insulted by it.
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its called "age of obama"
or something like that. It is going to get noticed when the moderator of a debate who writes a book with that type title.
Politics is perception – you’ve been around enough to know that. So has she.
My guess – she knew that this would get noticed at some point, raising the profile of the book considerably (who thinks about gwen ifill much anyway?). Sure she takes a little flak – it just doesn’t appear quite right – but it is expected and worth it. Nothing to be insulted about. I doubt she is, so why should you be?
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
I think you’re confused about the timeline here. For one, the book isn’t even completed yet, and has been in the works for quite some time.
But she most certainly is insulted by this:
“In The Post interview, Ifill said that as the daughter of a minister who marched in civil rights demonstrations, she recognized the historic nature of Obama’s candidacy. But, Ifill said, "I still don’t know if he’ll be a good president. I’m still capable of looking at his pros and cons in a political sense.” She added: “No one’s ever assumed a white reporter can’t cover a white candidate.”"
Her book is about a new generation of black politicians, which includes Obama. “Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama”.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 1:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look.
I know the book isn’t ABOUT Obama. I’m just saying the appearance is bad. And it doesn’t take an idiot to know that writing a book with that title in this extremely politically charged time is going to APPEAR like she is impartial.
If she didn’t realize that news about this book coming out would raise flags at the McCain campaign, she’s not a very astute political analyst. Since I believe she’s smarter than that, it means she had to know
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Read what I actually wrote. I didn’t just stop with “you’re questioning her professionalism”. I continued with “because of some tenuous association with an upcoming book which is not a biography of Obama in any sense.”
What’s “fair” about a debate, anyway? If people get answers to hard questions, then that’s presumably good for everybody. I say bring on a debate of pure partisanship. An O’Reilly one followed by an Olbermann.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok...
but why is the question just now being raised?
The Repubs have known about this since July. Why make a big deal of it now. Other than the obvious, we need to find a excuse on why she tanks reason.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 2, 2008 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not defending those complaining
I think its silly and just typical shallow politics. I just don’t see how it is “insulting”.
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 2, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Been reading the Corner this evening?
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 1, 2008 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's on Drudge too...
and Glenn Reynolds has been pushing it.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 1, 2008 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I quit reading Glenn Reynolds some time ago
His schtick is tiresome.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 1, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you were down...
with blog triumphalism.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 1, 2008 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just another excuse...
or person to blame.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 2, 2008 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because she's a woman?
you think she’ll favor Palin?
by SteveP on Oct 2, 2008 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More solid work by the McCain campaign
Ifill discussed the book in a interview with The Washington Post on September 4, well before the Commission on Presidential Debates announced the debate moderators. The McCain campaign said it had not seen Ifill’s Post interview, or been aware of her book, until Tuesday. McCain told CNN’s Juan Carlos Lopez that the situation concerned him but that he was sure Ifill would be professional.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/01/gwen.ifill/index.html
by robert_d_wilfong on Oct 2, 2008 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
That’s a fucking lie. Either that, or McCain ‘08 is the worst run campaign in history. It’s common for campaigns to have several people dedicated solely to scouring the media from all over the country every day, notating any mention of their guy and the opponent. In fact I did this grueling work during my first tour of duty with Bill Bradley when he was running for President. I bet 200 pounds of news papers and god only knows how many FedEx’s of video tape were brought in daily.
by Black Francis on Oct 2, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...
…there was a short peice done on one of the news shows 8-10 months ago that showed a room with 15-16 people with two tvs a piece and their entire job was to watch tape and on their candidate as well as all the opposition(it was during the primaries) and find dirt for use on anyone at anytime… its pure balderdash to think they didn’t know about this…
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Oct 2, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Generally
The media analysis is just done to keep the campaign informed so that they can shape their message. Opposition research is an entirely different department and is usually done by consultants. The media stuff is handled by staffers and sometimes volunteers.
But yeah, they knew about it. There’s no question in my mind that they did. Now if the people at the top of the campaign aren’t reading the memos then that’s another issue but still a problem for McCain.
Anyway, I was with Bradley in 1998 and 1999. I bet this kind of work is a lot easier now. Most of what they’re doing is probably electronic. Video sent over the net and digitized newspapers. “Back in the day” we had a two whole floors of a DC townhouse so full of newspapers you could barely get around. And that was just during the primaries.
by Black Francis on Oct 2, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it is a lie.
You’re smart enough to have realized before now that campaigns lie all the time, right? Or – shall we say – stretch the truth. Obama and McCain are both guilty (obviously people could argue about how guilty each is).
The whole thing is a clever ploy by McCain’s campaign (as with most of these sniping attacks, I doubt McCain or Obama has anything to do with it). They whine and complain all this week – which most people will interpret as a desperation attempt to get Ifill off the debate. In truth, they want her on. This does three things – 1> it allows them to spin post-debate that she was trying to “trap” Palin, after all, we told you she was biased before hand. Why didn’t she ask Biden x,y, or z?. 2> it partially takes the focus off of Palin leading up to the debate. The question is – is Ifill fair? Not, is Palin ready? and possibly most important 3> it will very likely take the edge off of Iffill – she can’t be as aggressive as she may have been because she’ll be trying extra hard not to seem biased. The debate is now about her impartiality. She’s compromised now, and not for the reasons that everyone is talking about.
Is it slimy politics? Of course it is. It is also smart though – this is too sophisticated for the average voter to pick up. That is what presidential campaigning has stooped to now.
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is probably a lie.
With the amount of incompetence I’ve seen over the last few years and with some of the decisions the McCain campaign has made in particular, to me it seems plausible that the top levels of the campaign really didn’t know about the book. There really could be a communication problem within the campaign itself.
Or at least it could’ve started that way. Either way, you’re right about how they’re handling it.
by Black Francis on Oct 2, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
credit crisis
Good summary of who caused the credit crisis…
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/who_caused_the_economic_crisis.html
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Oct 1, 2008 10:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's a nice summary
It boggles the mind when people try to paint such a huge, complex problem as the fault of a few, conveniently from the other party.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 1, 2008 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of like
Nancy Pelosi and her get out the vote rant vs Bush on Monday. Or how about John Kerry on O’Reilly on Tuesday night. I wish people would wake up and realize that Congress is the problem.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Oct 2, 2008 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
Most people do realize that, or at least they perceive that. Approval ratings are consistently terrible.
Also, bravo for ironically making t ball’s point.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The $700 billion question is
Why do they keep sending them back to Washington if they hold them in such low esteem?
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Oct 2, 2008 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because
My Senator isn’t the problem it’syour Senator.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Senator thinks homosexuals and single mothers
are an abomination against God and shouldn’t be allowed to hold government jobs, especially teaching positions.
Which makes me want to shoot myself in the face in shame.
Nothing could finer, indeed… :(
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 2, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...
Orin Hatch is your senator as well.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 2, 2008 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Difficult to unseat an incumbant
The amount of money they start with is more than a challenger can usually raise. It either takes a realignment or a perfect storm to beat an incumbent Senator. It’s a little easier to get rid of representative, but it’s still not easy.
I don’t think we are seeing a realignment right now. It’s just slow to develop. It started last midterms and I don’t think the dust will settle until the next midterms. By then the GOP should have their act together again but will be facing a bunch of entrenched democrats.
Another reason it’s hard to get rid of people is the two-party system, obviously. Lots of places are “safe” for one party or another, and the incumbent’s usually not seriously challenged in his or her primary. In Texas, for example, we are pretty much are electing Senators for lifetime terms. Unless they quit or die or move onto a different office, that seat is theirs as long as they want it.
by Black Francis on Oct 2, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
correction
That should read “I do think we are seeing a realignment”.
by Black Francis on Oct 2, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my least favorite part...
…is the post debate spin… each side saying they won, pick lines out of the oppponents words to misconstrue… painting it as a big victory and clear cut reason why their horse is better than the other… makes me vomit burp. its either all that political crap, or the fifth of bourbon.
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
my least favorite part
is when the candidates bring up people’s names. “Think about Bob Marlarky, in Altoona, Pennsylvania. He’s a blah, blah, blah blah blah.”
And then the other guy (girl) tries to out do them on the next time “Well, I’m thinking about Jill Eaglon, a single mother with 14 kids living off of five jobs…”
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"Asphalt me, ben. Asphalt me good and hard." - brettgardner
by Chase Irwin on Oct 2, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I too have a braclet..."
funny.
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Oct 2, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i need spellcheck.
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Oct 2, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nothing meant by it
I think we made our comments pretty much simultaneously.
by Black Francis on Oct 2, 2008 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jill Eaglon must be a crazy good lay
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 2, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec...
I hate that too. Either parties candidate acting like they know these people on a personal level, rather than just using their story to try and gain support and votes. It makes me ill.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 2, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Low expectations and Palin
I’m going to buck the trend here. It’s becoming cliche to say (and I said it, too) that expectations are so low for Palin that all she has to do is not throw up on stage and it will be a win for her. I think the opposite is true.
Her interviews have been such a disaster that I think most people watching fully expect her to screw up and are waiting for it to happen. And I’m talking about conservatives, liberals, and moderates alike, though for different reasons with some in each group. It’s obvious from her interviews that she has an embarrassing lack of even the most basic knowledge of current events, foreign policy, and even U.S. history. This woman has no business being mayor of Wasilla, let alone VP or even governor of Alaska. I live in Murphy, and if my mayor was so uninformed I’d scream for a recall.
Recently they’ve spun her incompetence as her just being “Joe six-pack” and able to better relate to voters. Ridiculous. I want my VP to know MORE about the world than I do, not much less. And I find it interesting that women, supposedly one reason for picking Palin, are more likely than men to feel that she’s unqualified.
I think that anything less than a home run tonight from Palin means a zero chance McCain can turn around the polling trends of the past two weeks. Barring Obama being hit by a meteor, he’ll be the next president.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 2, 2008 10:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point
There is a difference between Palin’s low expectations and, say, Bush’s in 2000 against Gore.
The ball is really in Palin’s court to show that she’s qualified – she’s lost all benefit of the doubt. I disagree that she needs to be perfect – I think that she needs to show that she’s 1> not stupid, 2> able to give interesting, informed answers to most questions (even if they are typical responses), and 3> an unexpected expert on one or two things (a few unique insights we haven’t seen from people yet). Maybe that is a home run – but I think if she holds her own she eliminates the talk that picking her is a disaster. Remember, people don’t pay much attention to VPs anyway. I don’t know how likely that is though.
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think...
…a single hour and a half debate is not going to erase several weeks of disaster at her own hands… it might temper the sentiment, but 6/10 believe she isn’t qualified, and though she might win one or two back, i don’t see one debate being that big of a game changer for her, especially at the VP level.
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Oct 2, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
double negative, my bad.
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Oct 2, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Palin was ever intended on being a game-changer
People keep making that mistake. Her role was and is to solidify McCain’s base, so he can go out talking about bipartisanship and all that stuff that would normally get the red meat conservatives furious. But they’ve been thrown their bone, so McCain can do what he does best.
If Palin is a disaster, then the effect will be a less motivated base, which will force McCain to shore it up very late in the game. I doubt anyone changes their vote because of her though. Maybe a few people who are truly undecided between McCain and Obama will look to the next line, but those people are likely going to be won over by tons of factors, and are unlikely to be as horrified by Palin.
If she does well though, it reinvigorates the base yet again a month from the election, paradoxically allowing McCain to campaign AWAY from those very people.
Many people are horrified by Sarah Palin, but I’d wager that they are almost exclusively Obama supporters, or people likely to go that way anyway if the VP choice was a conservative. Palin makes for an easy target, indeed, but every attack on her is one less on the guy at the top of the ticket.
If McCain somehow wins this election, its because Palin allowed McCain to win over the middle. Not because Palin won any of them over.
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think thats slightly backwards logic.
to say palin wasn’t brought in to be a game changer of sorts is awefully partisan at this point. when she was first announced all that was said, everywhere, on both sides, was that she was a game changer… “what does this do to hillary voters?” “this solidfies the republican base?” “she’s brought energy to the campaign!”… and the new AP survey out today shows only 25% of american’s believe palin is currently qualified to step into the role of president should it be necessary… if you think its only obama supporters that don’t approve of her than that probably speaks volumes about the race don’t ya think?
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Oct 2, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say only Obama supporters disapprove
Obviously lots of people have serious questions about her qualifications. I’m trying to say that only Obama supporters disapprove to the point that they think she disqualifies McCain from being elected. I think that the vast middle everyone is fighting over may be skeptical, but they will vote on other issues. As we keep hearing – they’re concerned about the economy. They aren’t concerned about McCain dying in 3 years in the middle of a crisis with Russia.
And when McCain introduced her, of course he didn’t say “Here’s Sarah Palin, who the right wing wackos will like!”. He said she was a target for the middle – its all about perception… But she was a “bring back the base” pick if there ever was one. If they could have spun her to get votes from the middle, then why not try?
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A good write-up on this - kind of the anti-t ball
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=0038dbb2-ef88-4096-9aa7-5e17fb3b3e91
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm, good article
Palin’s high-stakes speech at the Republican convention was a home run,
Ok, she is great at delivering speeches written for her.
and her one-on-one with ABC’s Charlie Gibson, while underwhelming, was adequate.
I thought that one was just as embarrassing as the Couric interviews.
unless she faints or vomits on air, her team will rush to declare a victory—not just for her, but for all of Joe Six-Pack America.
How is this a victory? I expect just a bit more from the VP than to successfully not throw up when forced to actually speak to the media or another candidate.
the media rushes to declare it a defining, game-changing moment. We then immediately and completely recalibrate our expectations based on the assumption that said candidate will never recover/stumble again. Sarah Palin gave a great convention speech: She is a grassroots rock star destined to save the McCain campaign! Sarah Palin gave a terrible interview: She is a clueless loser destined to sink the McCain campaign! Or forget Palin. How many times did the media prematurely pronounce a candidate toast this cycle? (I’m sure the Hillary and McCain campaigns kept a rough count.) You’d think people who cover politics for a living would be less inclined toward such hysteria than civilians. Instead, we’re so much worse.
That’s a great view of political coverage by the media.
So, my advice to Governor Palin is to stop letting your fussy handlers freak you out. You’re going to do just fine. You won’t be on that stage alone. Biden is bound to open himself up for at least a couple of good scoldings. The media is poised to write your comeback story.
I do think that it’s possible her poor interview performances are due in part to McCain’s handlers “freaking” her out a bit with their attempts at damage control. Unfortunately, I also think they have every right to freak her out.
I have never been so interested in the VP debate, this is going to be fun in a geeky politico way.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 2, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Historically
VP debates aren’t about the VP candidates — they’re about the VP candidates attacking the opposing Pres. candidate. Palin seems at her best when she is in attack mode and the items that the Repubs have been attacking Obama on to this point are pretty layman. I expect her to win the presentation portion of the debate while Biden wins the content portion and most neutral parties, in the end, will see this debate as a non-factor.
by robert_d_wilfong on Oct 2, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another VP point
This has been brewing in my mind a little bit lately.
One of the biggest critiques of the Bush presidency is that Cheney is somewhere behind a curtain running the show. People don’t like that – I’m not sure if they don’t like it because Cheney is creepy, or they think Cheney is creepy because he’s secretly in control. But whatever the cause, it leaves a sour taste in their mouths.
Well, Sarah Palin is most certainly NOT that. Anyone can tell that she’ll be a non-factor in a McCain administration. Do you think he will be consulting her about ANYTHING? Not likely. I also think this is a floor to any negative Palin can have on his campaign- its obvious she won’t matter at all unless he dies…
Ironically, Obama is the one who made a Cheney-like pick. Obviously Obama comes across as more competent than Bush circa 2000, though he’s probably technically aroudn the same amount of experience. I think the idea that Biden’s foreign policy experience supports Obama is a tough sell, since most people are wary of a Cheney effect. Biden is goofy enough and does not come across as manipulative.
With McCain’s age and experience (and ego), it’d have been hard to imagine anyone being a Cheney in his administration. But it is interesting to note that Palin is clearly the anti-Cheney.
With Obama, I see someone who could actually end up structurally similar to Bush – a presidency that is really spread across many people (Daschle, Biden), with Obama at the helm. Obama won’t defer entirely to anyone as Bush did with Cheney, but I don’t see him as nearly as power-centric as McCain would be (or Clinton was, at least my impression of him).
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 12:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't really care
So long as we increase the size of the military, send more resources to Afghanistan, really funnel down the efforts in Iraq, and stop being silly with two nations who could be allies of ours but for their administrations—Iran and Russia. I really couldn’t disagree more with how McCain addressed the Georgian issue, and both of the candidates rarely speak of Iran with regurgitating the 2 or 3 bullet points everybody already knows.
It just seems like some people aren’t happy if there’s not a black-and-white division between “us and them.”
Anyway, that’s my unrelated rant.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha
that is kind of unrelated. Oh well.
I am certainly not endorsing one way or another – just a curious observation.
I do agree with you about most of those, though I’m not sure about this
stop being silly with two nations who could be allies of ours but for their administrations—Iran and Russia.
Administrations of countries can be pretty big impediments to being allies. We should be allies with Cuba too but for that pesky communism thing.
I think the blustering about Russia is a little silly, but that is global politics – I think we’ve seen from the past fifteen years that a one-power world is inherently unstable.
Iran’s government is just fundamentally anti-US. It’d be great if we could have better relations (heck, their people are more western than most of our “allies” in the region), but that isn’t going to change until the Ayatollahs are out of power there.
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mmm
Well, I don’t think we’re really disagreeing. I’m not saying that I think we should embrace any nation in spite of its administration; rather, I’m saying that talk of bombing Iran or pulling Russia out of the G8 is so huge a leap from simply distrusting a particular regime or administration as to be considered ridiculous, at least by me.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCain
Has officially given up on Michigan
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/mccain-pulls-out-of-michigan/?hp
Probably a smart move.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 2:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree
But is Wisconsin any better use of his resources? Not sure of his current operations in Missouri but that seems like the better bet to me.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Either of those are better bets than Michigan.
I just wonder how much he’s going to pump into Florida going forward.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
If you allocate the states’ electoral votes based on how they are likely to vote, then all Obama really needs is Michigan and Missouri to bring his total to 271. That’s assuming that not a single southern state is going Obama, and McCain wins Ohio, Florida, and Colorado.
The handwriting’s on the wall, I think.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I haven’t been very confident most of the election, expecting some kind of Republican card up the sleeve, but this week has put me at ease. I can confidently say Obama pulls it off.
I agree with your response above, but I don’t see how other than making an effort in Wisconsin does any good. Might as well overload Missouri with extra staff.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
They feel that if MO were to go for Obama, the race would already be over, so it’s better to pull one out that might have been leaning Obama.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With a month to go
I don’t know if anything is safe for anyone.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 2, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me Either
Things are starting to shape up pretty good for Obama, but there’s that race thing. In the end, will people pull the lever for a black guy?
I think they will, but I lost a lot of faith in this country in 2004.
by Black Francis on Oct 2, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2004
I truly think that with any other candidate, including Gore again, the Democrats would’ve won.
But no one was getting excited over the idea of John Kerry as president.
by venturafearsnolan on Oct 5, 2008 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said back...
before each party had their candidate that this would be a very bad matchup for McCain and the election wouldn’t be close if Obama beat Clinton. The polls have showed it much closer than I though it would be, however I think in the end that Obama will still win the popular vote by 10% and the electoral vote by possibly 100 or more.
As you said, it may have been a smart move for McCain to pull out of Michigan because he really has not shot there, but he really can’t afford to just give up in any states right now. He’s at a big disadvantage in the electoral college the way things are shaping up.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 2, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question
If you are Obama, do you continue to play it safe – shoot for ~300-350 EVs – Colo, Nevada, NM, Iowa, Florida, Ohio, Virginia are your targets, or do you go for the kill – invest heavily in places like mizzou, montana, NC, even Georgia and north dakota? If Obama can hit 400 EVs he’d have a mandate far stronger than anyone since George H.W. Bush (Clinton had Perot, and W. Bush was very close each time).
Obviously the drawback of going for the big win is that you risk spreading yourself too thin if things tighten up considerably going forward. But the odds of that are decreasing every day – at what point do you start playing for margin of victory?
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mandates
Generally overrated. If I were Obama, though, I would probably try to secure Virginia, Missouri, North Carolina and Colorado. Nevada’s a coin flip right now, and in the end, I don’t think it will be all that relevant. Forget ND and Georgia, though any southern states are nice.
He’s spoken all along about his 50 state strategy, but at some point he’s going to have to make a choice like the one you posit.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IMO...
he should go in for the kill. The guy is a fundraising machine, I don’t see him running out of campaign funds anytime soon. I would probably avoid spending big in places like ND and Montana but every other state you listed he has a good shot at and he should make every attepmt to wrap them up.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 2, 2008 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that Obama
should start concentrating more in the SE area. States like Georgia, Miss, Alabama, SC, and Fla all have pretty high African American constituencies. If he were to pull out 3 of those 5 (granted 4 of them are pretty solid Republican), I think it may just guarantee him the Presidency.
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on Oct 2, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
That’s a bad strategy for many reasons. Glossing over the serious problems Obama would have to face if he were relying on exclusively the black vote to win, it’s a bad strategy because it’s just so unnecessary. He can win so many other ways without wasting his time in an area that just won’t vote for him.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's to say
that he can’t at least gain one of those Rep states in the SE?
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on Oct 3, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure he can
But it doesn’t really do any good putting extra resources there. If he wins it with his current activity, it would just be a bonus.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 3, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like McCain is writing off Michigan
http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/McCain_pulling_out_of_Michigan.html?showall
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 2, 2008 3:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I posted from an old window rather than just shutting it down.
Too bad I can’t delete the post.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 2, 2008 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its forever there
for all your descendants to see and laugh at.
by JBImaknee on Oct 2, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody see Nate's smackdown of Real Clear Politics?
so money
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/real-credibility-problems.html
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Oct 2, 2008 6:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
haha yes
I have a professor that was showing us RealClearPolitics in class and gave us an “assignment” to poke around on the site. When myself and another student brought up FiveThirtyEight, he didn’t have much interest. Maybe I should bring it up again on Tuesday….
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I always wondered why you’d see a poll one week and not the next. Who knows why. Regardless, it doesn’t matter what site you look at; Obama’s margin has been growing.
by Black Francis on Oct 2, 2008 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if anybody cared about zogby enough to pay him
he could put together a poll that has mccain up nation wide
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i saw that
and he brought up some good points. i understand not using the daily kos poll (because they are super liberal) but they had been using the george washington battleground poll that was apparently super flawed in age representation.
that said, i think nate is a democrat…but at least he’s not hiding it. full disclosure on why/how you pick polls is important.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell
I don’t watch much Fox News but they have Karl Rove as a analyst? Huh? 2nd I’ve been trying to give O’reilly the benefit of the doubt and try to look at his show as fair and balanced and cautiously entered the “no spin zone.” Yeah, That show is a joke.
by AirJordan on Oct 2, 2008 7:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
karl rove has been there for a while
and so has ollie north…
i like the show, it’s good tv. hannity and colmes is a joke
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hannity and Colmes
never watched it, but I’ve heard the show was very biased.
by AirJordan on Oct 2, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is a terrible show.
They are part of the problem.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Oct 2, 2008 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least
Rove will give an analysis from his perspective and not just spew the Democrats talking points like Dee Dee Meyers, Donna Brazille and Paul Begala do over at CNN.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Oct 2, 2008 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
on countdown
lol…they are talking about mccain calling for bush to veto the bail out…but mccain voted for it!
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 7:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
CNN is like freaking Monday Night Football with all these damn commentators.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 8:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyone watching this debate?
I’m voting for Obama, but I have to admit that it was an exceptionally savvy move by Palin to ask, on microphone, if she could call Biden “Joe.” Very, very savvy.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
She’s sticking with “Joe Six Pack” and “Soccer Mom” routine. She’s been practicing this all week. Of course Biden has as well., but whatever.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
She is going all the way with the "everyman" thing.
If it doesn’t work, she’s toast. If it works, McCain’s prospects improve, maybe significantly.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's right!
She’s not going to answer the question the way the moderator or Biden wants! She’s talking directly to the people!
Woot!
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2008 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rules be damned.
But then again, this campaign’s been one hail mary after another for the past couple months. At this point, I think that all Biden has to do is hold serve and he’ll be fine.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dunno...
…i dunno if biden practiced as much as palin has, its kinda obvious she’s been getting some very serious coaching… she’s probably gonna win tonite at this rate, just don’t know what it can do for the campaign at this point.
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Oct 2, 2008 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell kind of question is that?
“Are you interested in defending his Health Care plan?” Well, not really.
by AirJordan on Oct 2, 2008 8:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
HOOOOOOLY SHIT
“I call that the ultimate bridge to nowhere.”
We have our first zinger.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think she started strong.
She’s fading right now, though. Biden finally got a chance to talk cold hard facts, and that’s where he can win.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently...
…the game plan for Palin has been, when in doubt, talk about ending corruption on Wall Street and oppressive government regulation.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2008 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Happened right there again.
Asked a specific question about mortgages, and all of a sudden it’s back to the corruption on Wall Street and regulation.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
she's been cramming so much this week that
palin is gonna talk about whatever she wants to talk about. no matter what the question is.
i guess iffle can’t stop her because she’d be biased
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I haven't commented on many specifics"
Well no shit.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 8:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Here we go again!
There’s corruption on Wall Street!
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 8:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
She did not answer that question, at all...
She propped McCain, annnnd… that’s it.
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 8:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyone playing Palin Bingo?
http://palinbingo.com/Palinbingo.jpg.jpg
I would put it as a picture, but it is way too big and I am not sure how to resize stuff on here.
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 8:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I am.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha ha
That’s great. I wish I had printed one out to play!
-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"Football is like having a fling once a week. Baseball is a relationship." - oc
by baseballismyboyfriend on Oct 2, 2008 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YOu think that's funny?
Check this out, I nearly spit my soda out
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/8/L/2/palin-facebook-page.jpg
Just click on it to enlarge and read.
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG
Freaking hilarious.
-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"Football is like having a fling once a week. Baseball is a relationship." - oc
by baseballismyboyfriend on Oct 2, 2008 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Is that so?"
“That’s not so, but…I don’t want to talk about this. I want to talk about energy!”
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2008 8:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why does she keep changing the subject?
That’s really annoying…
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 8:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm really, really trying to stay down the middle here.
I’ve stated before that I’m an Obama supporter, but I’m honestly trying to be level-headed and non-partisan here.
But wow, she’s sounding really bad right now. And it seems like Biden is trying a little…too hard to not be patronizing or antagonistic.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Global warming?
Screw that, energy independence
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Palin
Is it me or is her voice getting on everyone elses nerves too?
by Monkey Brain on Oct 2, 2008 8:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
She was hiding the accent at first
But its slipping
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 8:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Beeeeillions of baaaaayrels of oooil.
Eek.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
biden don't raise your voice at the moderator (a woman!)
palin, don’t use the word “rape”
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 8:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly what I was thinking.
If you’re going to win the woman vote, Governor Palin, you probably want to avoid that word in any context.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm ready to bail on this
In 20 minutes and watch It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Palin did nothing to convince me she’s even somewhat competent.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 8:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
kind of reminds me of curb your enthusiasm
where larry david was on the producers. he started off great and then forgot a line. then of course he recovered and was awesome
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talking point No. 2: The surge is working.
Over/Under: 9.5 mentions by Palin.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What is this August?
Seriously though, it’s the one subject they have. It’s amazing how Iraq has slowed as an issue in this election. Granted, there were unforeseen circumstances, but if you asked me 9 months ago I would’ve guessed it’d be a much hotter topic.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm...
I think she realized she screwed up on her answer vis-a-vis gay civil unions and rights, when the moderator asked her about it, and decided to fall back on “I’m against gay marriage.”
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2008 8:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This whole exchange was amazing to me
Can anyone imagine this being said as recently as 4 years ago? Both parties agreeing that gays essentially have all the same rights as heteros, marriage in everything but name? That’s a pretty big shift from 2004, at least in the language being used if not the practical application.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can imagine it...
because it happened.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6338458/
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess I'd forgotten that.
I just don’t remember it coming up so prominently, but then again I didn’t watch each debate in 2004 since I was completely disgusted with both candidates.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 2:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone watching on CNN?
They have this graph across the bottom of undecided Ohio voters broken down between men and women and its funny the difference in reactions to the same response.
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 8:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
men love palin
women hate palin
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Women
are digging Biden.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't htink they love him
they just hate palin
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh wow
She just checked out for a few minutes.
by chief on Oct 2, 2008 8:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Uhm...uh...
…energy independence?
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what happens
when you are over-rehearsed and forced to step out of that comfort zone for any length of time.
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Did you see the look Biden just gave? It was a “is this chick serious?” look.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OK, again, this is me trying to stay in the middle.
But it is really, really frustrating when Palin doesn’t stay on topic.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
What’s making me ill is her accent. I do not want to listen to that for at least 4 years
by Monkey Brain on Oct 2, 2008 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got Damnit!!
There is no “y” in nuclear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 8:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That might be the dagger.
I mean it. That might be the ballgame right there.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nuke-u-lar
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 8:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
UGH.
I hate when people say NUKE-u-lar.
I also hate when people confuse seen/saw.
by chief on Oct 2, 2008 8:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was just about to type that
-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"Football is like having a fling once a week. Baseball is a relationship." - oc
by baseballismyboyfriend on Oct 2, 2008 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you use
“He voted against the surge!” and “he voted against funding for soldiers,” when he’s opposed the war from the get-go?
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 8:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Does she actually believe that?
“They hate us for our freedoms”
by chief on Oct 2, 2008 8:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait until real time
I can’t wait to see Bill Maher’s reaction this Friday to that.
by Monkey Brain on Oct 2, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh oh
here she goes, f the notes and tell it how it is.
by TxStCa on Oct 2, 2008 8:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Palin
She sounds like the squirrel from Higglytown Heroes.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2008 8:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking Daphne from Scooby Doo
I expect a “jinkies!” any moment.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
woah
she just dropped a hard “H”. Who said anything about the holocaust?
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 8:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
On the ol' Palin Scoreboard so far...
-Rape
-Holocaust
If she calls Obama a darkie or something like that, we’ll have an epic fail trifecta..
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 8:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
a mccain advisor
a few weeks ago said they were tired of dodging obama’s spears (referring to attacks)
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Threadjack my own thread
I’d suggest everybody turn on FX and watch “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia” if you haven’t. Dark comedy with Danny DeVitto. Alright, enjoy.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 2, 2008 8:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
great show
at least season 1 and 2. season 3 on netflix queue
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best comedy on TV
Bar none. This week’s was great. The montage at the funeral had me ROLLING.
by venturafearsnolan on Oct 5, 2008 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't stand
how he says George Bush’s lol
And I’m watching its always Sunny in 5 minutes too
by TxStCa on Oct 2, 2008 8:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
AHHHHHHHHH
someone please ban her from saying nuclear!!!!!!!!!!!!! And talibani! And did she call him O’Biden? Did he get an extra vowel added to his name?
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 8:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i wanna talk about afghanistan!
i got these notes on it, lemme talk about it please
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 8:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
His continuous referral to himself in the third person
is cracking me up. It’s so asshole.
by chief on Oct 2, 2008 8:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
take the drudge poll
right now its 76% to 21% palin winning the debate!
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder why...
they also had McCain winning his debate comfortably, which clearly was not the case..
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's like a zogby poll
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zogby
His polls are a joke. You must register to poll and then he send you a form. I just ignore everything he says. No one takes him seriously.
by Monkey Brain on Oct 2, 2008 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gawd
Could she be anymore snide? And trying to act cute. Maybe she should act like she has substance rather than being cute. Just a suggestion.
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 9:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
She sounds ridiculous
when she tries to go high-and-mighty on Biden…
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 9:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
she's like
i’m gonna zing you little buddy okay?
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone think she's doing well?
I can understand why some people said the Obama/McCain debate was close. I have no clue how anyone could consider this so though.
by chief on Oct 2, 2008 9:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
conservative pundits will say she won
and a handful of moderates
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fox News
I bet fox will say she won in a landslide. I wonder what RNC talking points will they give to Hannity.
by Monkey Brain on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
She needs to stop the smug bit...
It’s really not helping her..
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Knows how to win a war?
He was in Vietnam
by RangersOCD on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Woah woah woah
“John McCain, who knows how to win a war…”
She does realize that we lost in Vietnam, right? And that McCain was taken prisoner?
by chief on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
She just looked
like she was about to cry that last time she looked into the camera.
by Fooster7 on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bush Doctrine.
Joe’s going to work.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wasila Main St.
Another shot.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's Maverick...
Is she Ice Man or Goose?
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who wins...
…Hank Hill vs. Sarah Palin in a debate
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
HOLY SHIT
FOLKSY! FOLKSY! FOLKSY! CONSARNIT! DAGNABBIT! THERE YOU GO AGAIN, JOE, DAGNABBIT!
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok...
ok she just sounded absolutely fucking ridiculous.
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 9:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
propane is clean burning
and american. and he can probably see mexico from his porch
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Shout out to 3rd graders!
She’s got the tools to be VP!
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 9:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
She just said “shout out.”
That was cute.
by Athos on Oct 2, 2008 9:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I will say this
Palin’s been very “cute”. But that’s about it.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A shout out
Is this MTV?
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 77-20 To RICE? Come on.
by sprite on Oct 2, 2008 9:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Did she just go after the moderator?
Uhoh.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what he used ...
viagra? levitra?
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never understood
the purpose of a married couple sitting in separate bathtubs out in the middle of no where and what it had to do with Cialis.
by Fooster7 on Oct 2, 2008 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My lord
In the past 3 minutes…
“Shout out”
“Lame attempt at a joke”
Called her brother “Best teacher in the year”
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 9:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this might be out of bounds...
but the apples don’t fall far from the tree apparently…i’m sorry
by TxStCa on Oct 2, 2008 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK.
Everything I thought about Palin is 100% confirmed.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cheney with a gun
is less dangerous than cheney as VP
by RangersOCD on Oct 2, 2008 9:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
GOVERNOR OF A HUGE ENERGY PRODUCING STATE!
This is Folksy 101. It’s really kind of cute, the whole “not knowing anything about the issues” thing.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
vote for me, i got a special needs child
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sarah Six Pack
strikes again! It is SOOOO obvious how much she is pandering. It’s insulting.
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 9:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Another savvy move by Biden.
Notice that every attack has been against McCain, not Palin.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't really partake in the politics threads too much on here.
But I cannot believe I’m missing a week of The Office for fucking this
by LiamP on Oct 2, 2008 9:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Its probably a rerun .
They probably pushed it back a week in anticipation for the debates.
by Fooster7 on Oct 2, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
good move for biden to crack his voice
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Whoa.
Did Biden just choke up?
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That was a
Rhyner moment. I heard something.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 77-20 To RICE? Come on.
by sprite on Oct 2, 2008 9:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Okay
Based on Palin’s answer to the moderator’s question about what her Achilles’ heel is, I think Palin doesn’t know what “Achilles heel” means.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2008 9:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Biden chokes up
and Palin comes right back with a maverick!
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 9:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
maverick!
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL
WIN THE WARS! ECONOMY BACK ON TRACK! NO MORE GREED AND CORRUPTION!!! MAVERICK!!!
Oh. My. God.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maverick and greed and corruption on Wall Street!!!
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2008 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My cliche' meter just exploded.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man
if I had a drink every time she says “Maverick” I’d be on the floor passed out!
by Taylor on Oct 2, 2008 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Joe Biden doesn't like that word either
I’m glad someone is finally calling McCain out on that “maverick” mess.
by chief on Oct 2, 2008 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
She sucks, I'm sorry.
She’s just bad.
Dan Quayle with pigtails.
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 9:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fareed Zakaria...
…who isn’t exactly a flaming liberal, suggested that that comparison is unfair to Quayle, who was fairly smart and informed but just had a way of saying things that didn’t always make sense.
Palin, on the other hand, just doesn’t know what she’s talking about.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2008 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Former Bush Jr. Speechwriter David Frum
Mr. Frum noted the difficulty that Dan Quayle, who was elected vice president in 1988, had in recovering from an early set of mistakes that led him to be ridiculed as an intellectual lightweight. "The story of Dan Quayle is he did probably 1,000 smart things as vice president, but his image was locked in and it was very difficult to turn around," he said. "And Dan Quayle never in his life has performed as badly as Sarah Palin in the last month."
by venturafearsnolan on Oct 5, 2008 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Go mavs… Mavs anti education and health care
by RangersOCD on Oct 2, 2008 9:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a Palin
stump speech. That’s all it is.
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 9:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm noticing
that whenever she gets stuck she goes into speech mode. Unfortunately for her she’s doing it far too often
by Taylor on Oct 2, 2008 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay.
Biden just shoved “maverick” right up Palin’s simpleton ass. That was painful to watch.
by Athos on Oct 2, 2008 9:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Whoa, quasi.
Watch out there, Sarah, that’s a two-dollar word.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I haven't seen a Maverick owned like that
since the 2006 NBA Finals.
by cashman on Oct 2, 2008 9:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The better comp
is the 2007 first round.
by TxStCa on Oct 2, 2008 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, approaching the end.
Give Biden vs. Palin a baseball score.
I’ll say Biden 9, Palin 2.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Palin is clearly using the Rangers' pitching staff ...
without their offense.
by Athos on Oct 2, 2008 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Biden Bombers 8, Palin Mavericks 2
The Mavericks had it until the 4th inning when they brought Jamey Wright in.
by TxStCa on Oct 2, 2008 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did
you see her short circuit for just a second there? It’s like her Stepford program stalled for a second.
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 9:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
When Joe Biden talks...
…I am taken back to the winter 1992 SNL skit of the 7 Dem presidential potentials, with Phil Hartman as Mario Cuomo saying, “I have mob ties!!!”
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2008 9:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He apparently...
has the Rob from High Fidelity take on judicial picks… it’s what you like, not what you are like.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
mainstream media bad
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Mainstream Media???
Way to suck up to the far-right hockey mom
by Taylor on Oct 2, 2008 9:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
She likes to answer these tough questions?
That’s freaking news to me. Seemed to me it was more like “I’d rather talk about ____ than your question”
by chief on Oct 2, 2008 9:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
She likes answering questions?
she could have fooled me!!!!
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 9:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is embarrassing to watch.
I’m honestly embarrassed for Sarah Palin.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Megan McArdle...
who, as you’ve noted, is no Palin supporter, doesn’t seem to think she did too badly…
http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh huh
10:26 After this election, I am going to have to hit myself in the head with a small hammer to get the monotonous thrum of the word “maverick” out of my head.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2008 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soundbite culture...
hardly to be unexpected.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
She sucked. Embrace the reality.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2008 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't a game changer, either way.
That’s all she really needed to do.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh.
I wasn’t alive at the time, obviously, but I tend to believe that that’s one of those “history book” opinions that may or may not have been true, but gets more cemented as an irrefutable fact as the years go by.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just caught Begala...
He said she did well.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He said she did well restoring a broken image...
but he still gave the win to Biden.
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's to be expected...
it’s Paul Begala. Just pointing out that the Dem talking heads don’t seem to be as critical as some on this board.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked the Palin pick when it happened
but now…meh. And I’m voting for McCain.
by TxStCa on Oct 2, 2008 9:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
'Preciate that!
I’m folksy! Did you know I am from Wasila Main Street??
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 9:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OK, LSB SNAP POLL
WHO WON THE DEBATE, AND HOW MUCH?
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
By how much, that is.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
palin is the winner
because she wasn’t as bad as she was supposed to be
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it doesn't matter that biden "won"
she didn’t suck. therefore she won.
same reason why a obama tie in the first debate (foreign policy) = win
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
She didn't suck?
I guess we have different views on what makes somebody worthy of the highest offices.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm telling you
what the media will say. trust me on this
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No thanks.
I don’t really care what “the media” will say. I don’t see how anybody could watch that debate and think Palin is anything but a sad blight on this race.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fox news
4 analysts- All said Palin won handily.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 77-20 To RICE? Come on.
by sprite on Oct 2, 2008 9:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I am shocked.
SHOCKED!
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eye roll.
I’ll bet that MSNBC has Biden hands down.
Who could stand these talking heads?
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except Buchanan
Who just said that Palin “wiped the floor with Biden.”
I’m not kidding.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Were there any reasons given?
Because seriously, I don’t get that.
by chief on Oct 2, 2008 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because she's the most attractive
and not boring. seriously
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
She said that because she was "warm" or something like that.
Basically, Buchanan said that because Biden was “relentless” he was, you know, bad.
I don’t get the notion that if you talk about facts and issues and real things and corruption on Wall Street and taxes and energy independence and MAVERICKS!!!
Wait, what was I talking about?
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Warm?
Being ultra-snarky through a fake smile is warm? Seriously?
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, Buchanan said it, not me.
MAVERICKS!!!!
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MAIN STREET!!!!!
Washington Outsider!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If she's trying to connect with middle america
success (bush with lipstick)
by RangersOCD on Oct 2, 2008 9:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If that's true ...
it’s not saying much for middle America. I’ve found, in talking to juries, that blue collar types tend to resent people who talk unintelligently thinking they’re connecting with them somehow.
by Athos on Oct 2, 2008 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MSNBC
lol, everyone says Biden won. Idiots.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Oct 2, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I see why you're a Sarah Palin fan...
You both don’t know jack shit about politics, and you don’t answer the questions that are asked to you.
by cmkelly29 on Oct 2, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 3, 2008 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Turn on Fox News.
It will make you feel better. It’s the drug of choice for deluded right wing types.
by Athos on Oct 2, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I thought was odd
Was that Palin didn’t change up her chipper bit when Biden gave a heartfelt aside about his wife and children. He was on the verge of tears and she, without missing a beat, turned to the camera, smiled and winked again, before giving some other useless answer.
Just really odd.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 9:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If she had
a scripted choke and tear there she would have done it.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cnn had 8 analysts scoring the debate
1 said palin won
6 said obama won
1 basically called it a draw
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Obama won?
I missed his participation, I guess.
-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"Football is like having a fling once a week. Baseball is a relationship." - oc
by baseballismyboyfriend on Oct 2, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick hit the sports page for a second...
Dodgers up 5-0 in the 4th.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 77-20 To RICE? Come on.
by sprite on Oct 2, 2008 9:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
drudge results so far
BIDEN
24% 16,939
PALIN
74% 52,894
NEITHER
2% 1,447
that settles it
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 2, 2008 9:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL
No way!!! Drudge said that?!?
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Oct 2, 2008 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FACT!
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Oct 2, 2008 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So let me throw this quesiton out ...
if indeed she has somewhat erased the bad press over her recent interviews and if she has gained some points back, does the McCain campaign now go back to treating her with kid gloves or do they let her do interviews again?
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 10:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well I just got done watching it
…via the miracle of the DVR. Have not watched any commentary whatsoever.
You all know I’m a Democrat, but I don’t see how anyone could consider this a win for Palin. If you looked at it like a policy debate, she didn’t even answer most policy questions.
She didn’t do as badly as I thought she would do, but that’s not saying much because I thought she’d tank it horribly.
Biden was good. He wasn’t condescending at all. He was relatively concise and didn’t say anything really stupid. Demonstrated command of the issues and was able to cut through some of Palin’s attacks.
Clear win. Don’t care what the pundits think.
by Black Francis on Oct 2, 2008 10:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Biden played this whole thing really well
he never once attacked Palin, he only attacked McCain. And since Caribou Barbie obviously couldn’t respond to anything beyond her rehearsed points, she couldn’t really counterattack effectively. I was worried that he would fail because of low expectation on her side and how heated he can get on certain subjects but he played it almost flawlessly.
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Caribou Barbie?
Seriously? C’mon.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a pretty apt description, Ben.
Palin is an absolute joke.
by Athos on Oct 2, 2008 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you deny
that the McCain team has treated her like a barbie doll? A pretty doll you dress up, pull its string to say a few talking points, then put back in the box at the end of the day?
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I would disagree with that. I also think you would find me characterizing Hillary Clinton as “Bullbuster Barbie” unfair.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd dispute the Barbie part.
That implies cuteness. Hillary ain’t cute.
by Athos on Oct 2, 2008 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't understand...
these catty shots at her looks. Of course, I was reading a feminist blog earlier today where a woman said she wanted to kidnap Palin, perform cunnilingus on her, and convert her to the liberal cause. Weird.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then how
exactly would you characterize her role in the campaign so far and her handling by the staff?
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explain to me...
what exactly you’re talking about when you refer to “her role in the campaign so far and her handling by the staff.”
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
She has barely done
any interviews, the campaign has complained at every step about her treatment, about ‘gotcha journalism’ about sexism … If she was truly the pit bull she claims to be, why has she allowed herself to be sequestered in such a way? She is clearly being handled rather than being allowed to show the country who she is.
And another thing that worries me is that she admitted tonight during the debate that she is in favor of increasing the power of the VP. So she wants more power, to increase the duties of the position she wants, but we hear very little from her of any substance. Does that not worry anyone?
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah...
so Caribou Barbie is not necessarily a shot at her intellect and looks, it’s a shot at how the campaign has handled her?
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care
what she looks like. I care that they seem to treat her like she will break. I have never taken a shot at her looks, I don’t focus on that bullshit. I saw a thing on the Huff Post the other day where they printed a rumor about her lipliner being tattooed on, complete with several shots of her mouth. I threw up in my mouth a little bit. Who the fuck cares?! Can we talk about the issues, please!?
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Caribou Barbie...
that’s discussing the issues?
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was an analogy
for how she is being handled. I already said that to you, yet you keep bringing it up, avoiding issues yourself and not answering my question about her obvious handling by the campaign.
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But see...
I think saying Caribou Barbie was a criticism of her handling by the campaign is bullshit.
Anyway, he’s been on several interviews. She’s been stumping. What more do you expect from a VP candidate?
Just out of curiosity, how many interviews has Biden been on? I honestly don’t know.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
Tell us more about how you love divided government.
It has nothing to do with party.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
at the time
of the Couric interviews, he had conducted over 80+ interviews (mostly at the local levels in places he was stumping),just since the DNC. He will answer a question anytime you ask him. Why won’t she? Why is the press not allowed to ask her anything except when scheduled in advance so that she can be rehearsed?
My analogy to her being treated like a doll was not bullshit, but I suspect nothing I say is going to change your mind. You have already judged my intentions, but that doesn’t make the comparison any less apt.
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough.
I think it’s fair to say that, without a long and involved explanation, “Caribou Barbie” comes off as petty carping about her looks and lack of substance.
What’s the source on the 80+ interviews? And do “local interviews” include things like the rope line clean coal snafu?
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take
The guy who puts his foot in his mouth over the woman who hasn’t a clue what to say.
But then, I’m not a Republican shill.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It IS carping
on her lack of substance, because she just regurgitates talking points. And anytime during this debate that she couldn’t answer a question, she went back to something completely unrelated that sounded very rehearsed. She went back to her strong points like energy, rather than thinking on her feet and answering off the cuff. I would honestly like to know — was she directed to stick to her rehearsed points or did she self-censor herself by doing it.? The answer to this question greatly impacts her readiness to serve.
As for the source of the 80 interviews, I honeslty don’t recall. I read a LOT of stuff each day, from both sides. But I can assure you I wouldn’t make shit up like that, and I wouldn’t have quoted it if I thought it had come from an unreliable source. I am fairly reasonable about this stuff.
by Melmart1 on Oct 2, 2008 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
the reason I was asking about the source was not because I doubted you, I just wanted to see what they were counting as interviews. Because if it’s just rope-line stuff, Palin’s done that, as well.
Regardless, I obviously don’t view her with the same contempt that a lot posting here do. I was irritated by the Maverick stuff, but that and the energy stuff was just staying on message.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've turned into "InstaBen"
Professing not to be on one side or the other, and not expressing a preference, while continuing to carp about anyone who is critical of one of the sides.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 3, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey...
I don’t mind her. I think she’s “colorful.” Plus, I wouldn’t mind if they picked the President in reality show format, with obstacle courses and talent contests loosely based on potentially catastrophic presidential scenarios. Then we could all phone in our votes to 1-900 numbers and democratic participation would skyrocket! It would be utopia!
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny.
This must be that famous humor I always hear so much about.
by brettgardner on Oct 3, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coming back and looking at this again...
it looks like we agree that it’s carping on her looks and perceived lack of substance. Because you acknowledged that it’s carping on her lack of substance, and the “Barbie” part of it seems to be obviously a shot at her looks. But, I don’t know, I could be wrong.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If she
had substance there wouldn’t be any Barbie cracks. To me, Barbie denotes an empty head, just a doll with no brain. The fact that she was in a beauty pageant and sounds like a stuttering pageant girl in the Couric interviews doesn’t help.
A better image is probably a parrot. She can only repeat a few memorized lines the McCain campaign has fed her. Obviously all politicians do this to a certain extent, but with her lack of national campaign experience she’s much more vulnerable when going off the cuff.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 2:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I watched the Alaska gubernatorial debates...
that I found online, and I don’t think she’s without substance.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 2:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I watched them, too
and saw someone with fantastic political instincts who redirected every question asked and skillfully turned them around on her opponents. She was less successful in doing that last night. I think she has substance on a few issues that she has experience with, but she obviously is not prepared to fully debate many of the national and international issues she has to deal with as VP. She just has not digested them.
I think she might have been a great VP pick in about 4 or 8 years if she spent that time getting her head around that stuff. She’s not dumb, it’s just that she has not spent years thinking about this stuff like national politicians have.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
VP or Pres pick in 4 years
In 4 yrs she might be a very good presidential pick
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Oct 3, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it
though that would be quite a comeback from her stumbles recently. Bobby Jindal seems like a better bet. He has handled hurricane relief and emergency efforts very well to bolster his already healthy image.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Gawd, man!
Give it up! Why are you so fixated on the looks thing? It’s like you WANT me to be catty about her looks, like you need a good girlfight meow before you could go to bed.
As tball said, barbies are empty, plastic, brainless things. You can dress them up and take them out but they can’t do anything you don’t make them do, and that is limited to posing and having a fake plastic smile. Get it?
I think our disconnect here has to do with our perception of what a barbie is. You seem to think of it as an attractive, almost sexualized version of a real woman, I happen to think of them as a mythical, empty-headed and insulting replication of a real woman.
by Melmart1 on Oct 3, 2008 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh...
I don’t think it’s a good analogy either way.
Instead, you should go for “Unfrozen Cavewoman Governor.”
“I’m just a simple mayor from Wasilia. Some scientists thawed me out, and here I am. I’m frightened by your Washington insider ways.”
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon
It’s a blog. Why all of a sudden is it inappropriate when we make fun of Laird’s weight and routinely call people douchebags. Suddenly, you’re going to get offended by Caribou Barbie? Really?
I have no problem saying it … she’s semi-hot and has very little command of the issues. She’s the one that wants everyone to know that she hunts, fishes, has a snowmobiling husband and is “just one of us.” Caribou Barbie seems to fit very well.
by robert_d_wilfong on Oct 2, 2008 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Caribou Barbie
is like calling Obama Orangutan Ken. It’s in poor taste and sterotypical, which on LSB is usually a good way to get your point across.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 3, 2008 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, that's not even close
Instead of matching someone according to their sex, you matched Obama to a different species of animal. That’s a rediculous parallel.
by hiafex on Oct 3, 2008 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Sarah
was locked in a cage all day and flung her own poo, I might call her that. But as far as I know, she does not fling poo.
They are not the same thing at all.
by Melmart1 on Oct 3, 2008 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a stereotype.
It’s the same thing.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, its not
There are no similar characteristics between Obama and a primate. There is no comparison. Anyone who doesn’t see the analogy between Sarah and her treatment like a doll is not paying attention or partisan.
But we have been down this road before and its obvious since you don’t think what I said was an analogy that we are going to just have agree to disagree.
by Melmart1 on Oct 3, 2008 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right.
I don’t see the analogy.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Palin has similar characteristics
to a caribou?
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 4, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I see what you mean now....lol
The characteristics are incredibly similar!
Anyway, I don’t really care, I just found the Caribou line to be funny but stupid. Carry on.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 4, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pre-made rally signs handed out at the door
and created to look hand-made are stupid.
by RangersOCD on Oct 2, 2008 10:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Andrew Sullivan...
whose unhinged Palin hating is something of a joke, liveblogged the debate…
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/live-blogging-t.html
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't agree with everything said there
…but I agree with the conclusion.
by Black Francis on Oct 2, 2008 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sullivan's an interesting character...
but I think he’s sort of lost it vis a vis the current election. Plus, by all accounts, he’s an asshole.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should love him then,
No? Is he fat too? Then he’d be perfect for you.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why...
would his being fat make him perfect for me?
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey
Adults are talking. Keep quiet.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're going to do great in the courtroom.
(rolls eyes)
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
I know you have extensive courtroom experience, after all. I regard your opinion very highly.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed.
I’ve worked in the courtroom on many, many trials. Whereas you… have watched lots of Spongebob and have almost completed your Thomas the Tank Engine collection.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please.
I’d love to hear all about your legal experience.
You have no legal training, and it’s just as insulting for you to speak to me about legal matters as it would be for me to speak to you about how to be…whatever it is you are. Granted, I’m in the absolute infancy of my legal education, but I certainly don’t need some guy who’s only tangentially involved in the field to lecture me.
I’ve been in a courtroom many times in my life. I don’t really count it as experience.
But don’t bother me now. I’ve got so many wonderful toys to play with.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tangentially?
I worked in the field. I worked in the field for 7 years, and eventually decided that I would rather not continue to work in that field, and thus concluded that law school wasn’t for me.
Now I see why you’re such an Obama supporter.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
So no legal training. Gotcha.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
About as much...
as you have, studying at your uncle’s knee, learning the evils of MySpace.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to get involved...
…in this personal thing between you two, but I will say that Ben sort of plays an inflammatory sort of role on LSB. I’ve had e-mail conversations with him, though, and he’s a good guy.
Certainly I don’t need to stick up for him. He can do that himself if he chooses, but I wanted to say that.
by Black Francis on Oct 2, 2008 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He sent me an email
Whining about how I characterize him on here. I have nothing against him, really. He’s the one who hates me.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not what I sent you an email about.
You sent me an email saying you wouldn’t respond to me any more, and look where that’s gotten us.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
You were referencing the fact that I claimed you weren’t self-aware. I remember it well.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one cares...
about a private email exchange we had. I have no idea why you continue to bring it up.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somebody else did.
The idea, I suppose, was that you’re different in your emails.
by brettgardner on Oct 2, 2008 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever...
enut, isn’t this guy a spitting image of Pirog?
Anyway, go on and get the last word, I don’t have any interest in discussing anything with you.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ben
He is a good funny guy, outside of talking politics. When it comes to politics he is a condescending asshole who has all the answers.
"Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor"
by enut21 on Oct 2, 2008 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, enut...
you and ryanhealy. I miss you both.
But not the Eurofascists. They can go piss up a rope.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 2, 2008 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
An asshole?
For supporting Obama and telling us the obvious that Palin is fucking clownshoes? I’m sorry if he stopped drinking the neo-con kool-aid, unlike you.
"Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor"
by enut21 on Oct 2, 2008 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know him
I read very little political commentary and no political blogs. LSB is the closest I come, actually.
The only contention that I had with him is that I never thought Biden was bad in the first half, and I never thought she was particularly strong. I do agree that he picked up steam and she lost some along the way.
by Black Francis on Oct 2, 2008 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure
Why I enjoy the contentions of the immature and unreasoned so much. You’re on a roll, guys.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Oct 3, 2008 8:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hm
Anything that specifically ruffled your feathers Ed?
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 3, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh no
The rhetorical exchanges here are probably more sincere than the moustraps laid for each other by those representing their parties at the national level. And sometimes factual information is brought out that isn’t particularly in the general awareness base, even if it isn’t scale tipping data.
To try to restate, far too much of any opinion, my own included, is from impressions made. The maturity reference is in obligation to how much of those impressions are discounted, based on past events and past compromise.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Oct 3, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is little reason
when the emotions are involved, and most people think very personally about politics. And politics has way more confirmation bias than baseball, and we’re all good at that. I think you’re confirming your bias that the unreasoned here are also the immature, actually. Some of these posts come from folks old enough to know better. I’ve been paying attention to national politics since 1980, but I’m still guilty of letting my convictions and passions get in the way of objectivity at times.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, let me guess
this didn’t change anyone’s mind about the election, right?
I do like that Caribou Barbie line by Melmart. I’m definitely stealing that.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 3, 2008 8:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm going with
Sarah Parrot.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so again
punditry says one thing, the public says another.
i think people forget that the public only focuses on stupid shit when they don’t really care about the state of their affairs. in times of crisis, they do get a little smarter. palin beat the expectations game but the public has her losing by a pretty good margin.
and cahill is right – nobody will care. i think we know who’s going to win at this point
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Oct 3, 2008 9:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Biden did fairly well in this debate. However, in the following days, he and the Democrats will be burned by the fact-checker – Biden told told too many lies and provided too many misrepresentations. Palin did a great job of turning the words of Biden and Obama against them, esp. when she quoted Obama’s line that we are "air raiding villages and killing civilians" in Afghanistan. She drove the stake home in saying that Obama’s policies are "naive and dangerous."
Palin also did a wonderful job of looking right into the camera and speaking directly to the American people. She shouldn’t even bother being interviewed by the liberal media (who will misrepresent her anyway), but rather just keep speaking directly to the people.
For the undecided voters, a big part of their decision will be whether they are willing to trust in the ‘reform’ of the Republicans or the ‘change’ of the Democrats (which will surely mean bigger government).
by 4Him on Oct 3, 2008 9:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fact checker
will be unkind to both sides, as it is in every debate. Both campaigns know that most Americans are not savvy on details with these issues to catch them during the debate, and that most Americans will also not bother to read the fact check reports afterward.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fact checking
i dont know that palin really stated any facts to even be checked.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Oct 3, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Palin didn't answer a single question that was asked of her
She had her main points memorized and changed the subject as often as she could. She would answer the actual questions with a yes or no and then completely change the subject. She’s not ready to be the president and that’s very evident from her recent interviews and her performance in the VP debate. I don’t know how you could live with yourself voting for the McCain Palin ticket when that woman is insert cliche ‘a heartbeat away from the presidency’.
by hiafex on Oct 3, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How silly.
Why don’t you just vote how you see fit, and not worry about how to frame the election for everybody else.
by brettgardner on Oct 3, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Debate
I really dislike politics but there wasn’t much else on so i watched 30min of it. Palin didnt answer any questions, she turned it all into some double talk about energy.
Every time she spoke i thought of miss teen south carolina answering the question about education and the video someone made of dancing cartoon characters in her head.
Then i also was reminding of greggo on the ticket interviewing the chief of police “do you like your gig?” yes “that wasnt the question do you like your job?”
And what was with the john mccain doesnt say one thing to one group, then another thing to another group? he did it just a few weeks ago hours apart!! ON VIDEO!
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Oct 3, 2008 9:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
David Brooks
in today’s NYT column (The Palin Rebound):
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/03/opinion/03brooks.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Still, this debate was about Sarah Palin. She held up her end of an energetic debate that gave voters a direct look at two competing philosophies. She established debating parity with Joe Biden. And in a country that is furious with Washington, she presented herself as a radical alternative.
By the end of the debate, most Republicans were not crouching behind the couch, but standing on it. The race has not been transformed, but few could have expected as vibrant and tactically clever a performance as the one Sarah Palin turned in Thursday night.
by 4Him on Oct 3, 2008 10:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But
New York Times…super liberal…except when it agrees with me…
by brettgardner on Oct 3, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yawn
The only way Sarah Palin “won” this debate is that she didn’t absolutely butcher it. She kept to the talking points and managed not to screw up too badly. From a sheer debate standpoint Biden crushed her.
Palin’s role is done. By the end of the day we’ll be hearing about the bailout bill and this will be a distant memory. She’ll continue to do campaign stops but I wouldn’t expect her on 60 Minutes anytime soon.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 3, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But from a debate standpoint...
he didn’t.
I thought since he took such great pains to emphasize it, for instance, that we really must have spent more in one month in Iraq than in 7 years in Afghanistan. Or what was that crap about kicking Hezbollah out of Lebanon?
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't think I caught that
Only watched the first half. But what from Palin’s speech stood out? Was there anything she said that left Biden speechless? Because he seemed to stump her a few times, you know when she completely changed the subject.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 3, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know.
I guess when she was asking him about changing positions on the war, he didn’t have much to say. That’s one of the reasons why congressmen make such poor Presidential candidates, there’s a lot of voting history and much of it is often contradictory.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I agree with you about Senators, but I consider that just a blip on the debate. Biden isn’t the only one who flip flopped on the war, and that’s a whole different hornets’ nest to stir up.
Biden was more or less on topic, disputed claims made against him and made effective use of his time. Palin avoided subjects, rushed her points and blew through jokes. I still don’t see how it’s a win for her.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 3, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it's a win, it's a win....
because it’s graded on a curve.
Biden certainly didn’t perform the way the “seasoned Washington insider,” the guy who Obama brought on to the ticket to give him some foreign policy and experience chops, would be expected to perform.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll agree
on your first point, but I thought Biden did a good job. He opened strong, lost some steam in the middle, but finished strong. Everyone I’ve talked to thought Biden did a good job, and that’s talking to people on both sides. I’m still not following how he didn’t perform to his reputation.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 3, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you say things that...
are fundamentally wrong, not just wrong on a subjective level, but actually wrong on an objective level, but you say them confidently and that means you’re a great debater, I guess he’s a great debater.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First of all
…you could’ve ended your post with “…she’s a great debater.” and it would have been even more true.
What, specifically, did Biden say or not say that makes you think he did a poor job? Everyone I’ve talked to today thinks he did very well. I thought he did very well.
by Black Francis on Oct 3, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to sleep.
Have to work tonight. Will respond later.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
translation:
Let me read NRO for a few hours and i’ll get back to you on that
"Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor"
by enut21 on Oct 3, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm....
Pretty sure Palin stated more things that were incorrect or misleading. And if Biden said so many things incorrect, isn’t it Palin’s job to correct him, rather than just changing the subject?
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 3, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand...
Where exactly did Biden not live up to expectations? I haven’t heard anybody on either side say he under-performed.
by cmkelly29 on Oct 3, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
instaben!
Of no political party ( except the republicans).
"Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor"
by enut21 on Oct 3, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I make no secret...
of the fact that I sympathize more with the things that Republicans say they are going to do but don’t do than the things that Democrats say they’re going to do but don’t do. I’d still prefer divided government, just to the extent that I’d prefer that neither party do things that neither said they were going to do but it seems like a good idea anyway.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
the rational discussions in this thread really took a nose-dive last night. Kind of sad when all the loons come out…
by JBImaknee on Oct 3, 2008 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I voted for Kodos.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
kang.
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Oct 3, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the best part
Is Dole and Clinton getting shot into space. Their naked, lifeless bodies floating off….
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 3, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still puzzled by how anyone thinks Palin did a decent job...
To me, she seemed overmatched and tried to hide it behind rehearsed attacks and constant brushing off of the questions at hand.
If she was, say, John Kerry, we would all be hearing the GOP and Lib pundits say “He didn’t answer any of the questions.”
She gets a pass though, because she’s a moron, so it’s ok for her to skip the questions she can’t answer.
I thought Biden looked comfortable, and he performed well enough that I don’t think McCain could have beaten him last night.
by cmkelly29 on Oct 3, 2008 12:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought Biden looked comfortable, and he performed well enough that I don’t think McCain could have beaten him last night.
That’s a shock.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Oct 3, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did a great job..
That’s all I’m saying.
by cmkelly29 on Oct 3, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have nothing better to do...
…than bicker with everyone who thinks Palin wasn’t any good?
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 3, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 things on the debate.
1. It was obvious the Dem’s put a muzzle on Biden and it took him about half the debate until he figured out to take it off and hit back hard.
2. I’m so sick of him saying how much of a good man and a good friend John McCain is. We get it. It’s okay to attack the guys policies without kissing his ass beforehand.
3. Regarding the bailout/economy portion of the debate, When it came to the mortgage crisis Palin pretty much agreed with Obama and Biden. That must have pissed off plenty of people on the right.
"Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor"
by enut21 on Oct 3, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more thing
Palin said McCain knows how to win wars? What war has he won exactly?
"Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor"
by enut21 on Oct 3, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The war to dump your first wife
when she’s crippled in an accident so you can marry a younger, richer hottie? The Family Values War!
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 3, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Concur...
and I want to see a Michelle Obama v. Cindy McCain debate.
Cindy just looks scary. 10 pounds of makeup trying to hide fuglyness.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 3, 2008 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cnn poll has biden winning debate with 51% to 36%
most of us agree that biden won the debate. but i mentioned in here last night that palin was the winner because she didn’t suck horribly. it’s sad when both sides can claim victory because neither “sucked”.
from cnn:
Sarah Palin stared criticism straight in the face Thursday, telling opponent Joe Biden and moderator Gwen Ifill that she would answer questions and address issues on her own terms during the vice presidential debate.
Joe Biden and Sarah Palin traded barbs Thursday in the only vice presidential debate this election year.
“I may not answer the question the way you want to hear, but I’ll talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record,” Palin said.
Since being picked as Republican presidential nominee John McCain’s running mate, Palin has been under fire for not being accessible enough to the media and delivering tightly scripted speeches during campaign appearances.
Palin did not veer off course during the 90-minute debate, but her stand on principle appeared to hurt her, according to a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. Poll of debate watchers.
Don’t Miss
‘Morning Express’ viewers pen debate headlines
Only 26 percent of those surveyed said that Palin was more intelligent in the debate compared to the 57 percent who chose Biden, according to the poll of 611 adult Americans, who tuned in to watch it. The poll had a sampling error of 4 points.
Overall, 51 percent of the debate watchers said that Biden did the best job in the debate, while 36 percent gave the nod to Palin. iReport.com: Who do you think won?
However, the Alaska governor, who repeatedly sought to emphasize the maverick credentials of the McCain-Palin ticket, overcame expectations as 84 percent of the debate watchers said she did better than expected. Watch entire debate: Part 1 " | Part 2 " | Part 3 "
Heading into the debate, both Republicans and Democrats said that Palin needed to convey to voters that she understood the problems they face everyday, which have been exacerbated in recent weeks by the financial crisis. She met her match in Biden who went toe-to-toe with her when discussing the problems of everyday people. While Palin talked about her hometown of Wasilla, Alaska, Biden countered with Scranton, Pennsylvania, and Claymont, Delaware.
For Biden, Democratic and Republican strategists said it was essential that he direct his fire at McCain and stay clear of being overly aggressive in his criticism of Palin.
The debate watchers polled by CNN said that by a 7-point margin — 43 percent to 36 percent — Biden spent more time attacking the opponent. Still, fears of the Delaware senator being overly aggressive never came to fruition and certainly did not hurt him when it came down to the bottom line: who won the debate.
The conclusions of those surveyed in the CNN poll cannot be welcome news for the McCain-Palin campaign, but Republicans have to be happy with Palin’s performance which was gaffe-free even as it was short on substance. Full coverage of the debates
The theme of the debate was change as Palin and Biden sought to convince voters that they would, respectively, shake up the status quo in Washington, a popular theme as approval ratings for the president and Congress are dismally low. On this point, Biden, a 35-year veteran of the Senate was more successful in selling this message. Fifty-three percent of debate watchers said that Biden seemed more likely to bring change than the 42 percent who chose Palin.
Another troubling number for Palin is that only 46 percent of the debate watchers said she was qualified to be president, compared to the 87 percent who picked Biden after the debate. Grade the candidates’ performance in the debate
However, Republicans can take solace in knowing that a vice president nominee does not win or lose a presidential election. Palin will continue to be embraced by conservatives and, perhaps, even energizing them more in the closing weeks of the campaign.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 3, 2008 1:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
From another NY Times editorial
published right after John McCain picked Palin as his running mate: "So much for the snickers about Boring McCain. His choice of Sarah Palin enlivens a leaden campaign season. It energizes the Republicans. And for all Americans, not just women, it’s a genuinely historic moment. The verbs of Sarah Palin’s life convey her solidity: worked, earned, raised, ran, won, led. In selecting her, Mr. McCain pays signal tribute to the difficult path pursued by many American women."
The Times noted that some would say that Palin’s selection was purely political, but it then rebutted that criticism: "By choosing a woman who seems untested on the national stage, it will be said that Mr. McCain looks desperate, driven to gamble that the women’s vote will turn into a plus. Maybe, but so what? That has always been the first criterion for running mates: Who will bring the most to the ticket?"
by 4Him on Oct 3, 2008 1:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Caribou Barbie
has really fired up the base of mouth breathing, inbred, Jesus Freaks.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 3, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Confession time
This was not a NY Times editorial about Sarah Palin. It was the Times editorial on July 13, 1984, that supported Democratic VP candidate Geraldine Ferraro: Just trade Ferraro for Palin, and Walter Mondale (that year’s Democratic presidential candidate) for McCain.
This year, the Times is repeatedly demanding that Palin "fill in for the voting public the gaping blanks about her record and qualifications to be vice president." In 1984, the Times made no such demands – but simply accepted that Ferraro was ready.
We can all admit that Palin doesn’t have all the experience that we might want, but neither does Barack Obama, and neither did Geraldine Ferraro, who was one of 435 members of the House of Representatives for three terms, and not even a leader. Compare that to governing the largest state in the country – if Ferraro’s experience was sufficient, then so is Palin’s. On the other hand, the intense questioning of Palin is fair only if Obama (No. 1 on his ticket!), receives interrogation of at least the same intensity – and so far he hasn’t (and most likely won’t).
We can clearly observe the hypocrisy of the NY Times, but we can also see the hypocrisy of those of you who castigate Governor Palin for her so-say lack of experience (among other things), yet refuse to scrutinize Senator Obama in the same way.
by 4Him on Oct 3, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really are desperate
most of the criticism in here has nothing to do with her experience. It has to do with her lack of knowledge about national and international issues.
by Melmart1 on Oct 3, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you read
the other political threads? And even in the areas of national and international issues, had Obama been held to the same standard (especially since Palin has only been on the national political scene for about six weeks)?
by 4Him on Oct 3, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's exactly the point.
She has only been on the national scene for 6 weeks. She is not qualified, or ready if you prefer to put it that way. Only someone blinded by bias could watch Obama and watch Palin and not see a huge difference in terms of being in command of the issues. Obama actually answers questions. Why? Because he can. Same with Biden and McCain. Palin has to constantly redirect every answer to her scripted talking points.
Good luck with your delusional campaign to convince anyone who doesn’t listen to Rush Limbaugh that Palin is qualified.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is
that that the MSM (and their sympathizers) do not even want to give her a chance. Was Obama vetted with anywhere near the same intensity as Palin during his first six weeks (or even months!) on the national scene? Absolutely not, and he’s running for President.
Governor Palin is learning pretty quickly that the MSM is largely owned and operated by left-wing nasties and liars, who have openly made themselves extensions of the Obama campaign.
So far she is handling it well, partly due to the media’s continual overreach in terms of personal attacks, contrived slanders and bizarre lies. She has responded with great grace and forbearance. But she is catching on to their game…
by 4Him on Oct 4, 2008 2:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
“So far she is handling it well, partly due to the media’s continual overreach in terms of personal attacks, contrived slanders and bizarre lies.” That describes most Republican’s political strategy right there. Did you even see her interview with Katie Couric? Obama can answer the questions that are asked of him, the same can’t be said for Palin, it’s simple as that.
by hiafex on Oct 4, 2008 2:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you see
Palin’s interview on the morning after the debate? She can obviously answer questions about what she reads or Supreme court cases just fine. The challenge is in determining which questions from trap-setters such as Couric are legitimate (and people need to know about) and which are clearly ‘gotcha’ questions. It’s not very easy to do, especially when you’re put on the spot. Of course Obama is basically been given a pass, for the most part.
by 4Him on Oct 4, 2008 2:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This "Obama has been given a pass" stuff is BS
He outlasted Clinton and all of the other Democratic nominees in the primaries and McCain hasn’t been able to find anything to accuse him with. I’d call that being vetted. That’s what the nominating process is all about, isn’t it?
by hiafex on Oct 4, 2008 3:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again
The pass is from the MSM – not from the nominating process as a whole.
by 4Him on Oct 4, 2008 3:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So... Maybe FOX should work harder.
He had an interview with Bill O didn’t he? I feel he’s a bit more partisan than Katie Couric.
by hiafex on Oct 4, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"gotcha" questions
I have no doubt that any of the other three candidates would have been able to easily answer any of your so-called “gotcha” questions. She is pathetically unqualified, and no amount of media bashing will change that.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 4, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, you're unbelievable.
Obama has given countless press conferences, appeared on talk shows, interviewed with countless reporters, and the MSM has examined every freakin’ hair on his head, just as they have with McCain and Biden.
OF COURSE she has been examined with “intensity” in the last six weeks. No one knew who the hell she was before that and there was little talk about her being a VP candidate. The media are actually being too nice to her out of fear of being seen as mean.
The right wing of the GOP is built on a mountain of hypocrisy. They demonized Hillary Clinton for over 15 years, then expect Palin to be treated with kid gloves and howl sexism anytime she’s asked to veer from her limited talking points. Furthermore, Rove and others ridiculed Tim Keane as being the mayor of a smallish city, but now they tout Palin’s experience as Mayor of Smallville. If you really want her to be treated the same as Obama, you should expect her to talk to reporters every single day.
The media is nowhere near as biased as you say. Contrived slanders? Come on. It is not contrived to expect the VP candidate to actually answer questions asked by reporters. Gibson and Couric were overly nice to her, asking entirely reasonable questions. The fact they they exposed her inexperience and lack of qualifications for national office does not make them biased. It makes her a rookie.
She’s a talented politician who might someday make a good candidate. But next to McCain, Obama, and Biden, it’s obvious she is not there yet. You embarrass your own party by taking the stance you do. If Palin were a democrat you would be posting reasons why she is unqualified. If Obama’s qualifications come under question, you simply cannot in good conscience actually claim that she is qualified.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 4, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't understand the new SOP of the GOP
They play the victim card every chance they get.
Dick Nixon was about a million times more man than anyone in the national scene of the Republican party. He didn’t turn into a whining, simpering pussy anytime someone wasn’t nice to him.
by venturafearsnolan on Oct 5, 2008 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
obama was held to the same standard
and came out on top in the primaries. he went up aaginst biden, clinton, edwards, and dodd all asked questions of his experience and the media gave a forum for that as well. voters decided that yes, he did have enough experience to lead. and on election day they’ll do the same.
biden’s experience is not questioned. neither is mccains.
palin? mccain could die. would you really want the country’s spokesperson (and that’s what SHE would be) to be somebody that was mayor of a town of 6,000 people and governor for 2 years of one of the smallest states? if you saw the debate last night, you saw that she refused to answer questions, instead she wanted to just talk about what she was trained to do. “i want to talk about taxes” “i want to talk about afghanistan” that’s code for either, “i don’t know, i wasn’t taught that” OR, “i’ve said all i know about that subject, let’s move on”
the country doesn’t vote for the VP, they vote for the prez. if the country chooses mccain, palin could end up president. who really wants that. she was a gimmick choice by a man desparate (like mondale was). he might as well have picked lance armstrong as his running mate. i mean come on. it’s ridiculous.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 3, 2008 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i should add
that yes, palin was questioned very much. but the media needed to do that because they knew ZERO, NADA, ZILCH about her. the other 3 guys in the race have been around for a few years, they know about them. they know NOTHING about palin. and to make matters worse, mccain keeps her away from press conferences and interviews. how many interviews has she done? 2. charlie gibson and katie couric. a 3rd if you are moronic enough to count sean hannity (i wouldn’t count olberman as an interview for biden) she is this big secret.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 3, 2008 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So then
before the media ‘knew’ Obama, why didn’t they attack him in the same way that they have attacked Governor Palin? Answer: B/c they’re in the tank with Obama. Here’s how one person describes it:
Off the record, every suspicion you have about MSM being in the tank for O is true. We have a team of 4 people going thru dumpsters in Alaska and 4 in Arizona. Not a single one looking into Acorn, Ayers or Freddiemae. Editor refuses to publish anything that would jeopardize election for O, and betting you dollars to donuts same is true at NYT, others. People cheer when CNN or NBC run another Palin-mocking but raising any reasonable inquiry into obama is derided or flat out ignored. The fix is in, and its working.
by 4Him on Oct 4, 2008 2:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hah.
Here’s how another person describes it:
Waaaaaaaa
by brettgardner on Oct 4, 2008 7:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
George Will
Do you consider him to be a liberal shill? What about Kathleen Parker?
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 4, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
Debating 4him is not much different than debating someone like Sharky or Longhorn.
The guy REFUSES to understand that the American people knew nothing about Palin before she was selected, and that we have a RIGHT to know. Everybody’s tired of “trust me” politics. Who the hell is she? Do people like 4him actually expect people to vote for a ticket headed up by an OLD man whose campaign won’t even let the VP candidate have a press conference? If something happened to McCain the fear is she’d be a proxy. In the most powerful office in the world. A proxy. That’s a scary thing. As far as we can tell so far, the woman has NO idea how Washington works. She’s never faced any challenge with budgets, which is the biggest challenge most governors have to face. The far right-wingers would hold way too much sway.
And maybe he knows that. She was put on the ticket in large part to appease the religious base, after all.
But nothing that Palin is going through is unfair. Nothing. In fact she’s been treated quite well by the press. A lot of people the “MSM” put on TV actually claim she won or held her own in the debate the other night. What??? This was a POLICY DEBATE and she dodged questions left and right. There’s no way that was a win, and anybody who says it was even close is being extremely kind. And the notion that Couric and Gibson are “trap setters”. Give me a fucking break.
This is the kind of person who voted for Bush over McCain in 2000 just because Bush told us all how he loves Jesus. I guess in these peoples’ minds that’s enough to qualify a candidate for the Oval Office.
by Black Francis on Oct 4, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
obama has been in the limelight
for what? 5, 6 years now? palin has been, “only at it for 6 weeks”.
so consider it those 6 weeks catchup time.
and it would help if she was made available to the press. i should add that she did another interview, after the debate. doesn’t count though because it’s Carl Cameron.
obama and biden are out there, open to be interviewed. they are hiding/being sheltered/protected.
obama even did an interview with bill o. did you see that jackass interview barney frank the other day? how utterly unprofessional and rude.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 4, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I only watched the first part of the Bill O - Obama interview
But he seemed realy rude, unprofessional and disrespectful to Obama in that interview as well. Obama would try to explain the details around his decisions while O’Reilly would just mouth off loudly while Obama was speaking. Bill O has no class at all
by hiafex on Oct 4, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If by "attack" you really mean ...
“ask straight forward questions that any candidate for one of the two highest offices in the land ought to be able to answer,” then, yes, they have “attacked” Obama. The difference is that he can answer simple, straight forward questions without looking like a dunce. Plus, he actually answers the question that was asked instead of ignoring the question and talking about something else.
Honestly, all you’ve been doing is picking up on GOP arguments to try and twist Palin into something other than the unqualified, ignorant candidate she really is. And the arguments are so pathetic that they are insulting to the intelligence of the even the lowest of intelligent beings. Your party ought to be ashamed of themselves for trying to foist this person on the American public.
by Athos on Oct 4, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, when he reads these posts
he just thinks he’s being “attacked” by liberal posters.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 5, 2008 5:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
um yeah
can we have a source for that.
by cashman on Oct 6, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
reply to 4 him
about the dumpster stuff
by cashman on Oct 6, 2008 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i should say
that alaska could be considered the largest state, it could also be considered one of the smallest. not that that matters
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 3, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alaska is the largest state by size
The population isn’t even the size of Dallas.
by cashman on Oct 3, 2008 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
some hope for america yet
i guess overall, at least until the media brainwashes us, americans think biden won the debate
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/whats_a_win_vp_debate_edition.php
CNN conducted a telephone survey among previously interviewed respondents who planned to watch the debate:
51% said Biden “did the best job,” compared to 36% for Palin.
64% said Biden did better than they expected, 14% said he did worse than expected, 20% said he did the same as they expected.
84% said Palin did better than they expected, 7% said he did worse than expected, 8% said she did the same as they expected.
Asked before the debate if Sarah Palin is “qualified to be president,” 42% said yes and 54% said no. After the debate, 46% said yes and 53% said no.
CBS again followed up with a survey of uncommitted voters (those totally undecided or who say they might still change their minds) using the Knowledge Networks nationally representative online panel:
46% said Biden won the debate, 21% said Palin won, 33% saw it as a tie.
18% of these originally uncommitted voters made up their minds to support Obama, 10% made up their minds to support McCain, 71% were still uncommitted.
53% said their opinion of Joe Biden changed for the better, 5% for the worse and 42% said their opinion did not change
55% said their opinion of Sarah Palin changed for the better, 14% for the worse and 30% said their opinion did not change
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 3, 2008 1:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
WOW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAuOEdttjZQ
Why would anyone go on with O’Reilly?
by robert_d_wilfong on Oct 3, 2008 2:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I changed the channel
about 30 seconds into the “interview” when O’Reilly exploded. He was way out of line.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Oct 3, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I were Frank...
…I would have gotten up and walked off. Right there on camera. Let O’Reilly scream into the dead air.
He should go back to Inside Edition.
by Black Francis on Oct 3, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have professors
That worked with O’Reilly. Not that this will come as any kind of surprised but I’ve been told he’s a grade-A asshole. Even in his Dallas years.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 3, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He never lets...
any of his liberal guests talk. That’s the “no spin zone”.
He just yells and screams over the top of them.
Gotta love Barney…“this is where your stupidity gets in the way of rational discussion.”
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 3, 2008 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure why link didn't show up
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Oct 3, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Link
don’t work cause the vandals took the handle?
by Black Francis on Oct 3, 2008 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even though
God is on Our Side.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tina Fey
needs to get an Emmy for that Sarah Palin performance. Hilarious.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 77-20 To RICE? Come on.
by sprite on Oct 4, 2008 10:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
BF's conflict of interest
For those of you who are Barney Frank fans out there, here’s a story on his conflict of interest with Fanny Mae. Don’t bother looking for it elsewhere in the MSM – it’s been buried. But of course, from what I hear on lsb, there’s no bias in the MSM. (wink)
by 4Him on Oct 5, 2008 7:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who cares about Barney Frank?
He’s not my representative.
by hiafex on Oct 5, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fox is not MSM?
That committee was run by a Republican during that time. And there was a Republican majority in congress. Somehow those wiley liberals bamboozled the GOP into deregulating. Those crazy small government liberals.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 5, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
You want to talk about some slanted reporting. They broke up ten years ago.
Everybody knows that there were efforts in the 1990’s to make housing affordable to poorer people, and that some of those efforts did in fact help to create the conditions that got us where we’re at now. However, if anyone thinks what went on back then was the pivotal blow, they’re delusional.
Everyone deserves some of the blame, but you cannot escape the fact that the GOP controlled both houses of Congress as well as the Oval Office while the real estate bubble was forming. It was under their exclusive watch that deregulation happened that allowed these complicated and opaque financial instruments to spread throughout the financial sector. When you control both branches, you have a LOT of responsibility and a lot of opportunity.
Looks like the Democrats are soon going to be in the same position. Let’s hope they do more good than harm, and the the weakened GOP is a viable watchdog. The way DeLay and friends used the leadership, they effectively neutered the opposition. Let’s hope the Democrats don’t do that, either.
by Black Francis on Oct 5, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did enjoy that.....thanks
A bunch of young men in school, looking forward to having respectable jobs, and taking responsibility for their own actions and most importantly, taking care of their kids. That’s good to see.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Oct 5, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You still haven't answered
Do you consider George Will to be liberal media?
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Oct 5, 2008 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are embarrassing yourself
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Oct 5, 2008 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Update
The teacher who produced this video has been suspended. And rightly so.
by 4Him on Oct 7, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yessir, gots to keep these uppity negroes in their place.
Sleep easier, 4him, sleep easier.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Oct 7, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The real debate
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/vp-debate-open-palin-biden/727421/
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 6, 2008 6:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fey
Man, she’s got Palin down. Hilarious.
by Black Francis on Oct 6, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs