Bailey is worthless?
by Rodney on Oct 11, 2008 4:25 PM CDT
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PrintFrom a Jay Jaffe chat 10/09, read here.
Yanick (Brooklyn): Homer Bailey is worthless right now... I'd look at whatever the Indians gave for Anthony Reyes. Maybe Bailey fetches a little more but not much.
Jay Jaffe: Very good point. The Tribe gave up an oldish minor-league reliever named Luis Perdomo - live arm, but only in Double A at age 24.
On his attitude:
lrgreen (NYC): Speaking of TNSTAAPP, does the same ring true for Homer Bailey? Any significant thoughts about his development or is it similar to your comments on Buchholz & Hughes...thanks.
Jay Jaffe: From the people I've talked to who are closer to the situation, Bailey appears to have some serious makeup issues that weren't necessarily foreseen at the time he was considered such hot stuff. Confidence and even cockiness aren't necessarily detriments in a ballplayer, but uncoachability - the word that gets tossed around a lot in conjunction with his name - is.
I have a hunch he gets traded by Opening Day next year. A change of scenery is probably in his best interest.
(Is that our own AGreen, BTW?)
kingofstyle (NY): Homer Bailey for JJ Hardy - reasonable deal?
Jay Jaffe: Me, I wouldn't take Bailey for a J.J. Hardy rookie card, let alone Hardy himself, at least right now. Hardy's been worth about 14 WARP3 the past two years, and while the Brewers have a prospect in Alicedes Escobar, if they're going to trade their starting SS for pitching, they've got to get back somebody who's much more developed, a surer bet.
It seems that some here have Bailey's value all out of whack, if you agree with Jaffe. On the first point above, who would be a Ranger's AA reliever to mimic the STL/CLE deal?
Surely not Diamond? But then, maybe so...he is 25 in AA, and is a former 1st rounder, which would make any deal look better to fans/media. But is that too much to give up?
Frankly, I don't like what I hear/read about the guy. But I would not be shocked at all if he ended up here before ST, what with his TX ties and all.
So...WWNRD?
What would you do?
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I don't know how the Reds view him but
I would offer Laird for him straight up and see what they countered with.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
Given the tenor
of those answers, maybe Laird straight up is too much. I wouldn’t think so, but there have been these kinds of makeup comments going on long enough that you wonder. I’d almost say they need to throw in a high upside low probability low level prospect in addition to Bailey to get Laird since TX is taking on more risk. Laird is much more of a known quantity.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
100% agree.
I think many here far overvalue Bailey.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
I used to be for a Laird/Bailey deal
but I agree, this chat makes it seem like that would be giving up too much for Bailey.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I think any minor league arm that has legit top of the rotation potential
is a great deal for Gerald Laird.
Using catcher depth to acquire a high upside/high risk project is a calculated gamble that I’d like a lot.
Someone (I think it was clark) mentioned the other day that JD needs to make a Danks-type slam dunk trade that results in a reliable ML starter. If Bailey finds his ceiling here, then this proposed deal could turn out to be exactly that.
What would you ask Nolan Ryan: "... as a former pitcher, what would you think about having a useless lug standing out there behind you."
Then I'd tell him that useless lug’s name is Michael Young. -- lonestarJesus
Let's give em a hamburger
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
That would be awesome if Bailey ended up just needing a change of scenery
Guardado for an effective Bailey. In all seriousness though, I would really look at making a deal for Bailey. This is one of the great things about having Nolan around. If you have a problem with uncoachability like Bailey appears to have, is he really going to argue with THE Nolan Ryan.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
A change in scenery
He is from Texas, so that couldn’t hurt
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
baily
i’d still trade for him in a deal with laird, but as mentioned above i wouldnt do it straight up right now.
I think nolan ryan could bring him some of that famous texas high heat and make him listen.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
i'd trade him
just to get rid of Laird.
posthocergopropterhoc
"Why bring dividing politics to this blog Adam? Why? I get enough of it everywhere else. I don’t want it on the sports blogs I read." - tasan
*trade for him
posthocergopropterhoc
"Why bring dividing politics to this blog Adam? Why? I get enough of it everywhere else. I don’t want it on the sports blogs I read." - tasan
how 'bout
travis metcalf plus a reasonable throw in…. like michael schlact? for bailey
the thing about Homer Bailey
is that 29 teams would have at least some interest in the guy. I find it impossible to imagine that no other team in baseball would trump an offer of two spare parts like that. They should be able to get a league average starting position player for him. The thing that should give Texas an upper hand is that we can give them a league average starting player (Laird) at a position where they have a real need.
What would you ask Nolan Ryan: "... as a former pitcher, what would you think about having a useless lug standing out there behind you."
Then I'd tell him that useless lug’s name is Michael Young. -- lonestarJesus
If that was the case
then he wouldn’t be considered worthless. A lot of teams just don’t want to deal with a failed prospect who has major coachability issues.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
thanks, Aneel
"until they are good, they are not good" - seth
by inactive lsb user on Oct 12, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Laird for Bailey
I think if you are the Rangers you do this in a heart beat. This would help alleviate the catching logjam. Laird isn’t going to be satisfied with a backup roll and TT, MaxRam, and Salty need to play at the ML level to continue to develop. If I remember correctly we couldn’t get anything more than a C+ prospect for Laird at the deadline and getting someone with Baileys potential would be a huge coup.
On Bailey, I think a change of voice would be even better than a change of scenery. I know some people think Nolan has limited value when it comes to pitching development within the organization, but if would assume a 22 year old struggling pitcher from Texas might be inclined to listen when the advice is coming from Nolan. Bailey obviously has unlimited potential, the key at this point is to unlocking it. Bailey would also give us another ML ready arm in AAA to call upon if/when the Rangers have injury problems (like in 08) and someone with the potential to hold off Holland and Feliz’s push to the ML level.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
"hold off Holland and Feliz’s push to the ML level"?
You don’t hold more talented players back…you let them find their own level, whether that is AA, AAA, or MLB.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Hold Off
Maybe that wasn’t the right choice of words, but they definitely need more seasoning and I could see the FOT’s thinking it might be good for fan moral to see the much hyped pitching prospects. I would much rather see Bailey thrown out there than Feliz and Holland. I know everyone is so excited about seeing them, but we need to slow down that roll. If you can name a SP that relies on one pitch like Feliz feel free to. Pitchers with two pitches that make it are few in far between. I’d like to see Holland’s change as better than fringe average before he is pitching at that level.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
You do NOT trade a catcher
simply to loosen up a logjam. You trade for value. If you think Bailey is worth the risk, make the deal. If you don’t you look elsewhere.
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Don't you think
it would be worth the risk if you could get Bailey for Laird t ball?
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
I don't know
I’d have to trust the Rangers scouts to make that call. Off the cuff I’d say yes unless they think his personality makes it too risky. On a pure talent basis, of course.
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Well
The Rangers are simply under utilizing their assets by having 4 catchers that are considered to be or have ML quality talent. I’m not suggesting trading Laird for 10 aluminum bats and a BP pitcher.
To dumb it down to a real world scenario, if you(Rangers) were hungry and had $10(Laird) and needed food(Bailey/Pitching) you would buy(trade) your money(laird) for the food the vendor is offering(Bailey/Pitching)
You cherry picked one statement from my argument and act like that was all that was written. So I don’t think I need to reiterate what I already wrote.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
Shit
The scenario was to smart for me it should read like this “To dumb it down to a real world scenario, if you(Rangers) were hungry and had $10(Laird) and needed food(Bailey/Pitching) you would buy(trade) food(Bailey/Pitching) with your money(laird) even if it might not be the optimal use of your $10(laird).”
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
I agree
that Bailey might benefit from a change of scenery. I’m not commenting here on the deal itself. I’m just ranting because I feel too many here think the Ranger just have to do something, anything, and your “logjam” comment stuck out. I’m not saying you’re one of those, but I feel like the Rangers will make a deal sometime this winter, but I’m not too worried about it. If the right deal just isn’t out there, you don’t make a deal just to make one.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Logjam
It is what it is. I just think you could use the spots on the 40 man better than carrying four catchers. I’m definitely not advocating it being a smart idea to rush out and trade Laird, Salty and MaxRam for Rick Helling, Justin Thompson, and Jeff Zimmerman.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
If JD had a time machine?
Then, Hell Yeah!!!
:)
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
My guess is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle
I don’t think he’s worth a Salty at this point, but, that being said, he’s not completely worthless, either.
Guys who can throw two dominant pitches (his FB and CV) and are still young are always going to have more value than a Metcalf/Schlact package. Shit… I think I might have more trade value than Metcalf and f’ing Michael f’ing Schlact.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Salts+?
Tim (DC): Joe, do the Rangers make a move with one of their catchers this off-season? If they wanted someone like Cain, what type of package? Laird + ???
Joe Sheehan: You can’t start with Laird. You’d have to start with Ramirez or Salty, in that order, and I don’t know if Salty has a ton of trade value at the moment given the Qs about his ability to catch.
The Rangers have something of a Yankees problem this winter, in that a team wanting to trade with them is going to want their best prospects, and those best prospects are fantastic. A team with less to offer can probably make a better deal because their “best prospects” aren’t quite as good. I would compare this to the rumored deals the Yankees and Red Sox had last winter for Johan Santana, versus the package he was eventually dealt for. The Dodgers have gone through this to some extent as well.
In any case, it’s a little more complicated for the Rangers.
Yeah, a problem, but a really, really good one to have!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
In a continued raiding of BP...
Jon (SF): Would you trade Cain? What team that is loaded with hitters but short on pitchers is a good fit?
Joe Sheehan: The Brewers, and I think Cain-for-Fielder was floated in a Buster Olney column a week ago. The Rangers have a lot of hitters and a need for pitching.
Fielder would be wasted in PNC…and he’s gonna ’splode soon…
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Isn't PNC in Pittsburgh?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Whatevah!
You know what I meant…SF Giants Ballpark on the Bay, or somesuch.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
I wouldn't be surprised
if Homer Bailey has a Bobby Jenks type career.
What would you ask Nolan Ryan: "... as a former pitcher, what would you think about having a useless lug standing out there behind you."
Then I'd tell him that useless lug’s name is Michael Young. -- lonestarJesus
Hmm
Becomes obese and bleaches his goatee?
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
heh
I think Jenks was always a bit of a fatty mcfat-fat actually.
I’ve often wondered if H-Bai wouldn’t be best served as a late inning reliever, though. Serious fastball and a big bendy curveball to keep hitters honest. Could be the makings of a nice closer.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 12, 2008 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions
H-Bai?
Really?
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Oct 12, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
crazy + legal problems?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 12, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Apparently, the secret is out:
http://homerbaileysucks.ytmnd.com/
You might want to turn your sound down a notch before you hit that.
"M’s fans are such weenies." - Zywica
For the record.
I stand by my earlier statements regarding Homer Bailey, his attitude, and his father (who is probably the root of the problem with Bailey’s attitude).
It's filed under 'D'... for donut.
... but I would like to add...
… that I think someone like Nolan Ryan really could talk some sense into him.
It's filed under 'D'... for donut.
by NoNameOnCard on Oct 12, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
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