Tuesday a.m. stuff
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 14, 2008 9:43 AM CDT
Email
PrintEvan Grant has an update on the coaching staff situation, with Rick Peterson expressing interest in coming to Texas. Given Peterson's history, he definitely is an intriguing option. Another guy Grant mentions is Mike Maddux, who is the Brewers pitching coach, and who has developed a pretty good reputation.
T.R. Sullivan has a new mailbag up...it includes a proposal for Zack Greinke that Sulilvan says is way too much to give up.
85 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
For a minute there, I throught you said Greg Maddux
And I went “so the old fart has decided to retire and come coach for us?”
"M’s fans are such weenies." - Zywica
Heh
That Grink offer is just funny. Ian Kinsler, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Brandon McCarthy and one of our Minor League pitchers (not Derek Holland, Neftali Feliz, Michael Main or Blake Beavan)? Good Lord.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You missed the second part
Well actually, they can have Feliz and Holland too
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Ha
…for the first time it seems that someone besides me is saying “too much for Greinke.” Granted, this proposal is utterly ridiculous. But still, feels like a win.
by FuturePants on Oct 14, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Like you
I have been consistent in pointing out that you are trading for 2 years of Greinke.
What would you ask Nolan Ryan: "... as a former pitcher, what would you think about having a useless lug standing out there behind you."
Then I'd tell him that useless lug’s name is Michael Young. -- lonestarJesus
And like others,
if the price isn’t too dear I fail to see why that’s a problem. Of course if you can swing a better deal for a pitcher under control longer you do it. But you do not ban talking to KC because he’s under team control for “only” two years. The only reason not to trade for him is the cost in prospects, which I think is too high. KC is in the same boat as the Rangers, not a good match. They will only trade that guy if they get a boatload in return. That is why you don’t trade for Greinke.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
I don't think anyone bans talking to KC
…but if names like Holland, Kinsler, etc. are thrown around, you walk. On the “trading prospects for pitching” thread, I agreed to one of Newberg’s proposals because two of the main pieces were Cruz and Arias, two guys who I honestly could care less if they suited up in the new red jerseys for ’09.
Greinke is a nice pitcher
but he’s not somebody you torch your own system to acquire.
Making Hurley a part of a package to get Greinke would be a really dumb move…when you take a sledgehammer to the immediate future of the team (which is what JD did) there should be no quick fixes and the pain should last until this team starts to grow and develop their own pitchers.
I have long been a detractor but I’m intrigued enough with Nelson Cruz to keep him around next year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
So naturally...
…you see Hurley as a legitimate contributor to the Rangers very soon and for years to come?
I like Hurley, but I do think he may project as a better trade chip than a viable long term Texas Ranger. That is why I could stomach throwing Hurley, Arias, Cruz, + for Greinke.
by FuturePants on Oct 15, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I think if Hurley
can stay healthy for 32 starts he could be a legitimate contributor.
4.50 ERA and 180 IPs is not too much of a stretch for Hurley. I don’t give up 6 years of Hurley for 2 years of Greinke.
KC would also laugh their ass off if you thought you could get Greinke for Hurley, Cruz, Arias +.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 15, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Apparently, the Rangers made a run at Greinke before the trade deadline.
Just a guess… but I have a feeling Chris Davis is the chip in question.
by oc on Oct 15, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Hurley
For a Greinke you absolutely include Hurley if they want him. Greinke is an immediate upgrade over Hurley. And by the time greinke leaves in two years we will have guys who are also upgrades over Hurley ready from the minors.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Not funny actually
That’s stuff they’d build a Texas Rangers house of horrors out of.
"M’s fans are such weenies." - Zywica
Does anybody really
believe the Rangers will pay their pitching coach more than their manager?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Dunno about Rudy J (do you?)
but do you think the Rangers would pay $ 1.5 million for a pitching coach if somebody else more affordable was available?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 14, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
If they liked the guy the best
then yes I do.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 14, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't understand this question.
I think it relies on the idea Hicks is a chincey owner.
Pretend like Peterson is the Michael Inoa of pitching coaches, for example.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 14, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
The Rangers were just doing that Inoa thing
for PR purposes. You know, just like they did with the blind Dice K bid and just like they are doing now with pretending like they are going for Peterson.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
except the rangers offered more for Iona than the A's did and got screwed out of it
you cant compare the two
now the dice-k comparision is much more on target but i think they bring in a high profile pitching coach, especially after how much all the pitchers in the org have been screwed up
i think they will bring in the best one for the job. id be happy with either peterson OR maddux personally
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 14, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
And who would have thought the Sox
Would have offered $50MM?
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
Its more just a shot
at the theory supported by some that all of JD’s moves are simply to show the media that they are willing to spend money. The Dice K bid and Inoa bid are two examples of how its not just for the media. The Rangers really didn’t know how much other teams were offering and especially in the case of Dice-K, had absolutely no way of knowing.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
wha-wha-what
< sarcasm>
you know the rangers knew exactly how every other team was was going to bid in the blind bidding processs for dice-k!!!!
and that they KNEW ahead of time that Iona was going to get “tricked/taken advantage of” by the A’s so they just upped their offer to make it seem as if they were actually interested?
</ sarcasm>
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 14, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd be surprised
if he got that much from anyone. I don’t think any pitching coaches in the league get close to that. I want to say I read that Jaramillo is like the highest paid assistant coach in baseball, although that might be out of date info.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Around
half a million I believe I read.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
The Rangers may be telling
Peterson that coming to Texas is a good way to re-establish his market value as a pitching coach.
The notion that the Rangers would look for affordablility over actual competence isn’t new.
See JD & Wash.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 14, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
You can say what you want about Wash
and his in game management
but you can’t say this team has underachieved.
Not to defend anything Josey is saying
But that fact doesn’t exactly speak to Ron’s compitence.
In fact, I’m 100% convinced that Ron’s Bozo the clown-style management was what lost us some ballgames this year. With a better in game manager I think we’d likely gain at least a couple wins.
"M’s fans are such weenies." - Zywica
Not a particular
fan of JFE from the FWST but she said that Washington was regarded as joke by most people in the Ranger organization.
Every time you listen to Wash speak, that’s not a stretch.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 14, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
+1
Every time you listen to Wash speak, that’s not a stretch.
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 14, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
JUST a couple?!?!
We both know it’s more than that Jonny. We’ll keep it our little secret :)
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Oct 14, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
So does anybody know what it costs for
an average or a good pitching coach?
What did Mazzone get from the Orioles?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 14, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I googled "Orioles Mazzone salary"
and came up with it within the top 5 links. Is it really that hard?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
then how much was it for those of use who are lazy
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 14, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Mazzone's salary with the O's was $ 500,000
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 14, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
As a basica answer to your question
I have seen zero evidence that the Rangers will not pay the price to get someone if that’s the person they really want. I don’t see any reason to assume that Ryan and Daniels won’t be able to convince Hicks to pay for whomever they think is the best choice.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Let me introduce
JD & Ron Washington as Exhibits 1 & 1A to the affordability argument.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 14, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
why you suck at logic
you’re supposed to show us people that were too expensive. Your examples don’t prove anything.
And please, say Hillman. I dare you. Is he going to make it through next year?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
Hillman won 75 games with the
Royals in 2008 which was 6 more games than they won the year previous.
Trey Hillman improved the Royals.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Here's what I don't get...
If Daniels and Washington were hired because of affordability — because the Rangers would save, say, $500-600K by hiring them instead of someone else — then why are they willing to exceed slot money so frequently on signing draftees?
I mean, the difference between what Robbie Ross got and slot money is more than the difference we are talking about with Daniels and Washington.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 14, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
This argument just does not hold water. And zywica’s post right below this one is just one example. I’ll say it once again, there are many reasons to dislike Hicks, but cheapness isn’t one of them.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
How about
spending $1.5 million on Latin American kids who are 16 and who literally 99.95% of fans have absolutely no idea have signed?
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that cheapness isn’t an issue with Hicks, but I think it’s pretty obvious that it is a nonissue when it comes to being willing to pay the going rate for a good GM/manager. He’s done it, even when he was in really bad shape financially, but when you go with first time guys, you’re just not going to pay them big money on their first contract. To turn around and reverse the logic makes no sense.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 14, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that cheapness isn’t an issue with Hicks
Why not?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 14, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Because I think it was a big issue in 2003, the last time he was outside of the lower end of the league in salaries, and because he’s said to the fans publicly ‘if you’ll pick up attendence I’ll spend more on the team.’ All of that doesn’t make me completely confident that when it is necessary to significantly raise payroll – to appropriate revenue levels – because they have their team together, that he will do so.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 14, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Hicks
I just can’t fault the guy for pulling back from spending.
He overspent in the Hart years and got burned to a crisp. I don’t have attendance numbers here but I bet they went down, so the above quote doesn’t phase me.
Now he spends on amateur talent and, on occasion, free agent pitching.
Of course, Perez (or Inoa) money isn’t CC money, so you may be referring to that. That same analysis turns a blind eye to Matsuzaka and Zito and Teixeira, though.
Hicks spending has actually never seemed more sane from where I sit. You could fault him for trying to spend on some of these dodged bullets.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 14, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I haven’t found much fault with specific FA type decisions for the last few years. Again, my concern is tying the process by which the payroll plummetted with what will happen when it’s time for it to go back up. And I’m not saying that I know what he’ll do; I just worry a little about whether his suggestions that it won’t be a problem when they have a lot of good players isn’t completely honest or sincere. That’s just my personal concern, not a theory that I’m trying to push on anyone. Time will tell for me.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 14, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
The real argument
is why would they balk at signing a pitching coach due to affordability when they have already shown they won’t blink an eye at signing the most expensive hitting coach in baseball (last I heard, anyway).
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
AJM,
Do you believe that both JD & Washington’s affordability played no part whatsoever in their hirings and that Tom Hicks believed he got the most qualified people to fill those positions?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Compared to
the huge amounts of money required for almost every other aspect of owning the team, the dollar amounts between hiring Washington and hiring another manager are nothing. A better beef to have with Hicks is that he somehow thought Daniels was the most qualified guy at the time. I think he may turn out to be a fine pick after all. But Hicks has a history of questionable hiring decisions and you can’t chalk any of it up to money.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Was it a factor?
Probably. I don’t know any employer who makes decisions on hiring someone with zero regard for what their salary would be.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 14, 2008 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
For Josey
EVERYTHING is viewed through the prism of his Daniels hatred. He must have been hired only because he was cheap, it’s the only thing that fits Josey’s world view.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
x
EVERYTHING is viewed through the prism of hisDanielsHicks hatred.
Fixed.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 14, 2008 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions
It just depends on the day
which one he wants to hate on more.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 14, 2008 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly, neither Washington nor
JD were going to get hired if they asked for $ 1.5 million per because neither one of them had a track record of success. In fact neither one of them had a track record of any sort.
What got them their jobs had nothing to do with the bullshit they fed Hicks and almost everything to do with what they would charge for their services.
Tom Hicks got what he paid for.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 14, 2008 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I imagine if Hicks
keeps JD & Washington over the next 5 years with all the new talent coming in, the team will bounce around .500 give or take 5 wins.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 14, 2008 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't know exactly what Rudy makes
but when he signed his two year extension in 2007 it was reported that he got “a raise” over the $400k he made in 2007. Washington’s salary in 2007 was reported as $600k.
I think a better question might be whether the Rangers would pay a pitching coach more than they do Rudy.
OT - Matt Stairs funny
“You’ve been here for a month and you want to get that one big hit where you really feel like you’re part of the team,” Stairs said.
“Not that I don’t feel like I’m part of the team, but when you get that nice celebration coming in the dugout and you’re getting your ass hammered by guys, there’s no better feeling than to have that done.”
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
Maybe we should ask LAMF about that?
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
Maybe we should ask LAMF about that?
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
No
Im the hammerer not the hammeree!!
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Oct 14, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Id respectfully have to disagree
I can think of lots of things that would feel better than “getting your ass hammered by guys”
Loved the post game interview
Stairs talking about the at-bat saying he did what he always does – swing for the fences as hard as he can.
Wow
He’s gonna hear about that quote in the clubhouse for awhile I bet. Heh.
I love Matt Stairs – he didn’t do much in his short time in Texas, but I’ve always liked him for whatever reason. One of the few grizzled old veterans that I really do like.
"M’s fans are such weenies." - Zywica
OMG! Dan Patrick did a segment on that
last night…the whole crew was dying laughing. Damn, that was too funny!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Wow
The National Scrabble championship is on ESPN2 right now. I think that’s a new low.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 59-30 to U LA LA? Come on.
I'll bet the commentators
are doing a better job than any of the ESPN baseball guys.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Probably!
But has anyone demonstrated “good face” yet?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Oct 14, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Awesome.
I love scrabble. It’s certainly way more of a sport than poker. Hopefully they replay it.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 14, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Peterson
From EG’s article: "It should be noted that his resume includes two pretty significant turnarounds. In Oakland, he inherited a staff that had an AL worst ERA of 5.48 in 1997. By 2000, the A’s ranked third at 4.58. And in 2001, they were second at 3.59. "
At any rate, we should be in agreeance that it will take at least a few seasons for ANY pitching coach to work his magic. In Peterson’s first 3 seasons in Oakland, the staff ERA went down .9 runs. Whoever they hire, it’s gonna take some time. Will Hicks/JD/Nolan et al be prepared to wait a couple of seasons for results? I applaud the organization for sticking with their plan thus far, but it’s still gonna be some time before the pitching can be coached to better results. Maybe the upcoming talent will help fix things sooner rather than later, but I’l just excited for what COULD HAPPEN should the front office decide to continue being patient.
"Does this effectively hide my thunder?"
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- The Citi Field All-Star game has finally been made official for 2013
- Brett Lawrie receives four-game suspension, fined for ‘aggressive actions’ toward umpire
- PNC Park security guard loses finger in struggle with fan during Pirates game
- Create-a-Caption: Partying like it’s 1988
- The Ron Washington puppet is watching you while you sleep — and has possibly jinxed the Rangers
