Thursday morning things
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2008 7:40 AM CDT
Email
PrintHicks has spoken, and there will be the inevitable reactions. And the first is out...
Jennifer Floyd Engel has a typical screechy column at the S-T, playing off of Hicks' comments, but mainly talking about how much Jon Daniels sucks, referring to him as an "idiot" who is g.m. in name only and saying that many within the organization consider Ron Washington a "joke." The usual from that particular source.
Evan Grant has a story on Hicks' comments, as well, with Hicks saying that "Nolan is putting together the Nolan Ryan philosophy of pitching plan," and that they will implement that throughout the system.
So there you go.
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Lesson Learned
Well I have to say that at least Hicks acknowledges that the Rangers made a mistake, but to be completely honest with you, I’m sort of getting tired of all the Danks trade talk. It happened, it’s over, lesson learned. Everyone learns the hard way – can we please move on to something else?
by aggierangerfan00 on Oct 2, 2008 7:53 AM CDT reply actions
Maybe if you
contacted Mike Hindemann he would stop bringing it up all the time. He gives it new life every couple of days.
Maybe you rank high enough to clue him in.
agreed
but talking about the idiocy of Hicks (which is just as prevelant on this site as talking about the idiocy of this move) also gives me tired head. Who gives a shit if Hicks made a stupid quote about trading first round picks who are pitchers? It is just reactionary nonsense. He could have also said he will never trade a left handed starter for a right handed starter. That is another general rule of thumb that can be broken in the right circumstances. Hicks, JD, Wash, these are interchangable names in terms of occasional gross incompetency.
Hopefully
we can actually get a pitcher to the major leagues with the Rangers who doesn’t post a 6ish ERA. JD needs some success pretty soon.
On the other hand, anyone who read MoneyBall, remembers the chapters where Kenny Williams was treated as a buffoon and the butt of Billy Beane’s jokes.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Eh. The trade doesn't look fantastic from either side right now.
Gio’s stock has gone down quite a bit this year and De Los Santos had TJ surgery.
I don’t recall who else OAK got but those two were the key pieces.
I do have to say...
…there is a certain irony in JFE talking about someone else be viewed as a joke by those that person works with…
Her husband would never think that
Everybody else is a different issue.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
gotta agree with this
Ryan had a come-to-Jesus meeting with veteran Kevin Millwood recently, where he basically said, if your fat-butt-self shows up at spring training again, you will not be in the starting rotation.
Funny thing is...
Millwood wasn’t nearly as bad this year as his ERA would suggest. The defense behind him in his starts was atrocious.
by Joey Matschulat on Oct 2, 2008 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep
The anger at Millwood is displaced, he’s a scapegoat to a certain extent. If his actual ERA was closer to what his peripherals suggest no one would be talking about his fat butt. Obviously, some of that is his fault and it would be good leadership for him to just say he’s going to be better and show up in camp next spring in great shape. But right now everyone is angry at all the losing and he’s a convenient target.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
High dollar players
who don’t perform always have a bullseye on them.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Like I said
convenient. Most fans and media never dig deeper than surface knee-jerking.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
Hicks
Was there some quote that wasn’t gratifying?
“It’s only taken me 10 years to learn,” Hicks said. “Some people are slow learners, but I’ve definitely learned.”
Daniels convinced Hicks in late 2007 to commit to drafting and developing rather than spending on free agents.
“I can’t imagine us trading a first-round draft choice pitching prospect ever again,” Hicks said. "…Jon and his staff have helped infuse the minor league system with talent, taking us to one of the top three systems in baseball.
This all sounds pretty fantastic.
Go Strangers.
Encouraging
Despite the stuff about him throwing JD under the bus, the general content is encouraging. If he really is willing to stick with the plan and let Ryan and Daniels slowly build a contender we’re all going to be very happy in a couple of years. These are some of the smartest things ever to come out of Hicks’ mouth.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
JD won't be "building" too much in the future
and given his wrecking ball tendencies to the franchise, that’s a good.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Oh man
Looks like Josey has abandoned the “boy blunder” comments in favor of “wrecking ball” comments. I have to admit, I’m a little sad.
Trust me
“Boy Blunder” is right there along with “Jonny Donuts” in the arsenal.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Oh, I like Jonny Donuts
I never agree with the substance of your posts, but at least your nicknames can amuse me.
So Hicks says...
"I can’t imagine us trading a first-round draft choice pitching prospect ever again," Hicks said. “…Jon and his staff have helped infuse the minor league system with talent, taking us to one of the top three systems in baseball.”
Does that mean Thomas Diamond is untouchable?
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
Blake Beavan for Albert Pujols
No thanks, Cardinals.
Nolan would throw some serious Texas High Heat at that trade proposal!
We don’t trade first round pitchers!
The Express!
5,000 striekouts!
7 no-hitters!
1 Nolan!
0 first round pitcher trades!
Infinite yee-haws!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Don't forget...
…10,000 Whataburgers
25,000 Advils
And a helluva lotta beef!
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
perhaps i am misinterpreting
the yee-haw comments that permeate this board about Nolan Ryan. It seems to me that some people don’t think he is qualified to make baseball decisions, and often times it comes from the most avid JD supports, as if the love/hate of the two is a zero sum situation.
Now I can understand how some of the prospect heads here are given to the occasional JD ball lick because of the farm system he has built, but I don’t see why Nolan Ryan is a yokel. To me, the idea of the two working together to evaluate players seems ideal.
Can you imagine the uproar
there would be in here if Nolan had replaced John Hart and had JD’s trading record, managerial hiring record and the team continued to flounder with no end in sight?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
I guess there would be an uproar if that were the case
but there clearly is an end in sight. How can you continue to deny the existence of legitimate progress in the minor leagues? The minor league “cupboard” was nearly bare when JD took over. Now many baseball experts say it’s the best in baseball. That’s how you win in MLB…stock your minor leagues then reap the benefits. Would you rather JD and Hicks had a $185 million payroll full of Chan Hos and Barry Zitos?
"Does this effectively hide my thunder?"
The minor league cupboard
was nearly bare when JD took over?
Really?
Ian Kinsler, AGonzales, Danks, CJ Wilson, Eddy V (17-6 with the Reds!), TDiamond, Teagarden, Laird, Rupe, Masset, Littleton, Boggs, Metcalf, Hurley, Mayberry, Duran, Vallejo, Phillips, Poveda were all in the Ranger cupboard when JD took the reins.
Lots of mouth-watering talent in that group including 3 major league All-Stars and a young lefty who helped his team clinch the AL Central the other night when he gave up only 2 hits over 8 IP’s.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
See below
A bunch of those guys are contributing to the big league club so I don’t see how that’s helping your argument. You’re not going to find any list that has the 2006 system on par with the 2008/09 system. End of story.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
So that may mean that
that Baseball America or Baseball Prospectus were wrong in their assessments of the Ranger system when JD took the reins?
From everything I read, our system was getting kicked in the nuts by these outfits.
Did any other minor league system have 3 players in the AS Game by 2008?
I love your quote from “The Last Detail.” Movie was so-so but Jack’s performance, specifically that scene was spot on.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Not wrong
As I said below, top to bottom. We did have some serious talent at top of our system. But from about 7 or 8 down, our system today is far and away superior. Instead of praying for 3-4 guys to pan out, we have dozens of options.
We may disagree on baseball and politics, but at least we’re on the same page with music and movies.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
Shouldn't that be frightening?
"Asphalt me, ben. Asphalt me good and hard." - brettgardner
by inactive lsb user on Oct 2, 2008 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions
You are indeed misinterpreting
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 2, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
good to hear
don’t get me wrong, i actually rather imagining Nolan blasting out one liners like Major TJ “King” Kong in Dr. Strangelove, but I think it is fair to say that he probably has as much, if not more, credibility in making baseball decisions as JD did when he came on board as GM.
From the Engel Article
And for all you Hicks haters, time to give him a little credit.
He hired a baseball man.
No, he hired a baseball player. Biiiiig difference.
i am sick and tired of the
“he hired a baseball man” argument.
hart was a “baseball man” and where did that get anyone? Tom grieve, I like the guy but he’s a “baseball man” did he bring a championship?
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Does anybody really
think that JD was a “baseball man” when he was hired?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
+1. When Manny Ramirez retires...
…he will be a “baseball man”. Do you think he will be a highly-sought front office type?
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
Billy Beane was a "baseball man"
and so was Kenny Williams.
You remember Kenny Williams, doncha?
He’s the GM that fleeced JD.
Nolan Ryan is a lot closer to Kenny Williams & Billy Beane than he is to Manny Ramirez.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Why?
We have no trade history or personnel evaluations to judge him by, so how do you know that?
Doesn’t matter though, because if J.D. does anything right, it will be Nolan’s guidance. If he does anything wrong it will be his head. Such is the belief system of the Outlaw Josey Wales.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
Nolan Ryan is a lot closer to Kenny Williams & Billy Beane than he is to Manny Ramirez.
Why? I agree, because Ryan at least has business experience where Ramirez doesn’t, but are you certain that Ramirez is not a good judge of baseball talent?
The larger point is that you would say that same thing about anyone simply because of your blind hate for Daniels. It was Daniels who convinced Hicks to finally go for long term plan after years of ambling in several directions all at once.
I can’t stand people like you, because you’re always convinced that no matter what the problem is, no matter how complex, there is someone, some ONE person, who deserves to be blamed and hung out to dry. Real life is just not black and white, yes or no, up or down. Look deeper, try some nuance for a change. Daniels first year or so was a disaster, Hicks first several years were a disaster. Is it not a good thing that Daniels sold Hicks on sticking to a plan? Is it not a good thing that Ryan has bought into it and supports that consistent direction?
For someone who is a fan of a conflicted, complicated character like Josey Wales, you sure are one dimensional.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
"JD's first year or so was a disaster"
With regards to the team at the major league level, all three years have been a disaster and there is no reason to believe things will change in 2009.
The biggest problem with this thing is Tom Hicks.
He hired a person more qualified to make jelly donuts than run a major league baseball team, all in the name of saving a dollar. The first qualification to be GM of this team after Hart left was affordability which was the same qualification for manager when Buck left.
Yes, the minor league system is promising but this system was busting with exceptional talent top to bottom when JD took over for Hart. The major league team needs somebody who knows what they are doing and we don’t have that!
If you believe Josey Wales was complicated, you’re thinking too much.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Yes, the minor league system is promising but this system was busting with exceptional talent top to bottom when JD took over for Hart."
Wrong, wrong, wrong. If you think the system in 2006 was anywhere near what it is today, in terms of top to bottom depth, you need to do a little more reading.
Jason Botts was BA’s #8 prospect in the system in 2006. Even Botts supporters would say that is not a good thing. Today you are looking at Blake Beavan at #8 according to our community projections. Hell, JMJ has gone from BA’s #10 in 2006 to our #19 in 08, despite improving his numbers tremendously this year. That just speaks to the depth this organization has developed.
Trust me, if had to choose between our 2006 #25 prospect and 2008/2009 #25 prospects, you would choose the current one, no questions asked.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
The assessments made of our system
in 2005 were, upon further review, wrong.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
How?
Specifically, what further review reveals an error in the ratings?
You are honestly saying the ’06 farm is better than the ’08 farm?
JD took over in October 2005.
Regardless of what BP or BA said about the Rangers, the 2005 minor league system had lots of talent up and down the system.
Is the 2008 system better?
Maybe but the Ranger minor league system in October 2005 was well-stocked when the human wrecking ball known who has no idea how to build a major league team known as JD took the reins.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
So
JD “wrecked” the awesome ’05 farm system with the disaster that our ’08 farm is? I still fail to understand how you are actually saying the past farms are better than the current one.
Show me the “review.” Give me some names. Give me some facts. Just stating that JD is a “human wrecking ball” and ruined everything isn’t evidence. It’s you ranting for no purpose; nothing more.
JD screwed the pooch
in making the transition from managing the minor league system to trying to build the major league team.
The 2005 Rangers were a relatively young team one year removed from winning 89 games. Tom Hicks also decided to bump up the payroll by more than 20%. They needed starting pitching and there was lots of talent in the minor league pipeline. They also needed to be wary of losing Tex to free agency but they had a nice replacement for him in AG.
What happened?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
2004 was a fluke.
That’s what happened. Breakout/career years for many guys like Cordero, Frankie, et al.
The 2005 team broke the gate
37-29 (.560) which was essentially the pace they had in 2005.
The team fell apart because of dissension between players and all levels of management, the Rogers incident and not building upon what they had started in 2004.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
So Rogers' problem was with JD?
Even though JD was very public in wanting Rogers back after his two years with the Tigers, and Rogers would have liked to come back but wanted an apology from Hicks, which Hicks publicly denied?
You are confusing your front office quibbles.
In 2005, JD fetched coffee for John Hart
and tried not to come up with any more ridiculous trade proposals like say….a broken down Larry Walker for Ian Kinsler & Erik Thompson.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
okay
So J.D. is blamed for Hart’s mistakes now too?
Riiiiiiiiiiiight.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
I didn't pin that trade on JD
but somebody in the Hart inner circle either thought it was a good idea or couldn’t / wouldn’t talk his boss out of it.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
And didn't JD
also have a recent Colorado connection at that time?
It was Hart’s baby all the way but I wonder whose idea it was.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Josey...
…is now blaming JD for Hart AND Hicks’ issues/mistakes/feuds. It just gets more and more ridiculous from him.
re:
He hired a person more qualified to make jelly donuts than run a major league baseball team, all in the name of saving a dollar.
Shirley you see why no one can take you seriously with sophomoric dumb-dumb shit like this, right?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 2, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't give
a shit if somebody like YOU takes me seriously or not.
The comparison is very fair because JD (who got his first job out of Cornell trying to schlep donuts) isn’t a very good GM which is why his nuts have been chopped off by Tom Hicks.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
No
That’s not what JD’s job was. He did work for Dunkin’ Donuts’ parent company, Allied Domecq, but it was hardly a job “schlepping donuts.” Unless selling donuts pays six figures and requires an MBA.
JD gave that job up to take an $8000 a year job with the Rockies, which is how he got into baseball.
JD’s told the story a couple times at Newberg Night- you really should come out one of these years. For a guy who has so many things to say about Daniels, it’s amazing that you continue to decline the opportunity to confront him in person.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
Don't bring facts to a dumb fight
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 2, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
RC, I don't think I've missed anything
on my early assessments of JD. When he’s made the rare good move that helped the team at the major league level, I’ve acknowledged.
What would me talking to JD at Newberg Night solve?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Newberg Night
I don’t know that it would solve anything. I just find it odd that someone with so much to say about JD’s perceived incompetence would decline the opportunity to ask him a few questions, even if it’s to basically ask, “why are you such a dumbass?”
But maybe that’s just me. I like to have an understanding of people, even if (often especially if) I don’t agree with them or like them or their way of doing things.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
case in point randy galloway
probably daniels’ harshest critic, yet doesn’t attend games in a free press box.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
RC Cook, are you insinuating that
I avoid Newberg Night because I’m afraid to ask JD questions or face some of the other “Newbergers”?
Does anybody ask really tough questions of JD or is it a giant circle-jerk?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Newberg Night
I think the point is that it is the open forum to ask JD whatever questions you want.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
To get a deeper understanding
of what goes on behind closed doors in Arlington or little insider tidbits about what a jerk Teixeira supposedly was?
There are definitely things I could learn that might be enlightening but I have doubts whether or not JD would be open to the questions I would like to ask him.
I think it’s great that Jamey does this for the fans and his readers but the whole thing strikes me as a mini pep rally and it’s probably not for me.
I’d prefer to hear JD on BAD Radio or on Galloway’s show.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
how would you know
unless you asked? you just ASSUME he wouldn’t give you an honest answer.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Yep
That’s kinda my point.
Josey, I don’t think you’re too “chicken” to show up. Brooks, maybe, but you’ve never struck me as the type to shy away from confrontation.
And no, people don’t usually ask a lot of “tough questions” at Newberg Night, but I know I’ve asked at least one (questioning how the organization addressed mental issues with players, specifically Juan Dominguez, who I thought they mis-handled to some extent) and I know that Adam’s asked a few that weren’t of the softball variety. JD was willing to answer all of them.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
Totally OT
This was the ESPN.com front page as of 9:10am Central.
That’s unfortunate.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
Amazing how the FWST
is a lot tougher on the Rangers than the DMN.
Of course, the Rangers advertise quite a bit, probably some kind of major trade with the DMN including a wink, wink about the amount of bad publicity they receive.
As for JFE’s article, not bad. Called JD an “idiot”? That’s not exactly a stretch given his performance.
At least somebody is turning up the heat. I did laugh at the thought of JD being reduced to Girl Friday status around office.
Can anybody really deny that Washington isn’t considered some kind of a joke within the organization?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
figures you'd like it
since she’s the female galloway.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Grandma Urine is a funny.
What specifically did she say that was patently wrong?
Would you rather read some vanilla puff piece from Kevin Sherrington or an obvious “I don’t know shit about baseball” piece from Jean Jacques?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
I'd rather not read any of them
They have no more insight into Rangers baseball than you do. If Galloway is Grandpa Urine, you must be something like Uncle Duodenum.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
So just stick your head in the sand,
your butt in the air and wonder why can’t every journalist be like the house organ, TR Sullivan?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
I don't like to read him, either
He’s the opposite side of the coin of urine cakes. I prefer to read them all and take each with a large grain of salt.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
What specifically did JFE say
that was so wrong?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
So how is it that Ryan
can have a come to jesus meeting with Fat Ass Millwood but JD couldn’t?
Maybe that’s because Nolan Ryan is a HOF pitcher and Fat Ass Millwood couldn’t snow him with some bullshit line?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
If only Nolan could've had the chance to have such a meeting with CC Sabathia...
He would’ve thrown some serious Texas High Heat at that Fatty McFatass and straightened him out good!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 2, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
The
Fat Ass that is Kevin Millwood had to take Nolan Ryan seriously because he’s an ex-player, not to mention a “baseball man.”
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
JFE
It’s not necessarily taking issue with what she said.
But it is rather ironic the suggestion that Daniels needs a minder is coming from the person who pretty much parrots everything Galloway says, as if it’s some original thought on her part.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
JFE was out of her element
on her own 3 hour show but she’s not terrible in small doses on Galoway (and they argue quite a bit).
As a sportswriter, she’s okay. This is feint praise but I consider her better than every sportswriter at the DMN, including Evan Grant (sorry dude, I wish your criticisms of the Rangers were sharper).
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
JFE
I take her with a large grain of salt for the same reason I don’t take Sherrington or JJ too seriously. They don’t know that much about baseball. You actually have more to say than JFE does about baseball.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
JFE vs. Grant
Columnist vs. beat writer. That’s the reason she’s more critical.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
True, Grant has to be nice
to the players to do his job but he shouldn’t be afraid to be critical of Hicks, JD and Washington.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
OT: No K-Rod last night
Did anyone else think it was extremely foolish for Scioscia not to use K-Rod for the 9th inning last night? He hadn’t pitched since Saturday and today is an off day so why wouldn’t you put your best bullpen pitcher out there in the 9th to try to stay within one run going into the bottom of the last inning?
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
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