Tuesday morning things
According to Richard Durrett, Dave Wallace and Dave Anderson interviewed yesterday, Wallace for the pitching coach job, Anderson for the third base coach job. Durrett says that that should be it for interviews, and decisions should come down this week.
With the BoSox out of the playoffs, attention in Boston is turning towards next year, and the catching situation is obviously a priority. In the Boston Herald, Sean McAdam says that the Red Sox have "zeroed in on Texas," and Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Taylor Teagarden in particular. McAdam says that the BoSox made an offer for Teagarden at the trade deadline...I'd be real curious to know what that offer was.
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110 comments
Comments
MJH
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/10/prospect-previews-rh-starters-610.html
Tantalizing read on Wilmer.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 9:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Boston catching
Was anyone else tickled seeing Varitek flail at Price’s repertoire Sunday night? During the most important 9th inning remaining in his career?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 9:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i have a feeling
boston and varitek are headed in different directions, but i also have a feeling that price will make many, many batters look pathetic over the course of his career. Tampa Bay is just so full of good, young players. A rotation of Kazmir, Shields, Garza, Price, and one of their many talented young starters is staring the rest of the AL in the face like a black eyed dog.
by clark on Oct 21, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like a black-eyed prostitute, even.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That at bat was funny.
It went exactly how I knew it would. Did anyone think that the gruffy veteran was going to do anything but strike out against the shaky lefty?
by JBImaknee on Oct 21, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my guess is that it involved bowden in some way
i really am just not that impressed with bowden. hes def. not ni the feliz/holland/main tier of pitchers, and is he even at the top of the harrison/hunter/hurley/etc (near-major league ready tier)?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 9:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if so
that would be the second straight deadline they offered bowden to the Rangers.
Which means, of course, that he will go on to have a successful or even dominant career.
by clark on Oct 21, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
im just not that high on bowden i am not impressed (and IIRC some other prospect gurus arent either)
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bowden
I think he’s supposed to be better than Masterson stuffwise, but the knock on him is whether or not he can start. His mechanics rely on a lot of arm action and although he hasn’t had any problems as of yet that concerns some people in regards to his long-term durability. Or so I’ve heard anyway.
"M’s fans are such weenies." - Zywica
by lonestarJon on Oct 21, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had heard
that Masterson had the better pure stuff but that he may be better suited for the pen, whereas I have always heard that Bowden has back end starter written all over him. FWIW, here’s Sickels’ take.
by clark on Oct 21, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think I've seen that before
And stuffwise, Sickels says Masterson has a better fastball between the two due to it’s sink and movement, but Bowden has the better secondary arsenal.
I do know some Sox fans seem to think pretty highly of Bowden – http://www.soxprospects.com/ rates him as the #2 Sox prospect, although you wonder how much of that is hype and how much is truth. Personally, I’d take Bowden’s more advanced secondary stuff over Masterson’s sinker (especially considering out infield defense) but that’s just my opinion.
"M’s fans are such weenies." - Zywica
by lonestarJon on Oct 21, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I’d take Bowden’s more advanced secondary stuff over Masterson’s sinker (especially considering out infield defense) but that’s just my opinion.
orel is shaking his head in shame lol
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PROJECTION
Masterson: Masterson projects as a number three inning-eating, sinkerballing starter if his changeup comes around. He may end up in the bullpen, though, and he has the confidence and mentality to be a closer if necessary.
Bowden: Bowden projects as an efficient number three type starter, eating innings and throwing strikes. He reminds me of Jeff Suppan.
SUMMARY
I gave both Bowden and Masterson Grade B ratings in the book this year. Overall I give Masterson a slight edge due to his sinker, rating him as the Number 40 Pre-season pitching prospect with Bowden clocking in at Number 50. I like both of them a lot. I do have a personal stake in Bowden as he was a Shadow Draft guy for my farm system back in 2005, so I root for him.
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember
Beverly mentioning a Masterson for Teagarden swap, I believe, as something she had heard from a friend up in Boston whom she seemed to trust. As often happens with these things, it blew over, but this may validate that something along those lines was at least discussed.
I would do that swap, but I am not completely sold on Masterson as a starter and I would want another (non 40) piece as well, perhaps someone like that Korean OF they have in A ball.
by clark on Oct 21, 2008 9:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Shocking
that no one is zeroing in on Laird.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Oct 21, 2008 9:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
we have heard the Reds
as a plausable option. Is there any way this team deals both Laird and Salty if the right deals emerge.
by clark on Oct 21, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
This team can start either Max or Tea for all of 2009. It’s a development year, and it’s time to clear the logjam and commit to a starter.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please, please, please
do not trade Taylor Teagarden.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 21, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
this is where i am as well
keep teagarden
trade laird
keep max, rotate him between C/1b/DH (GET HIM 500 AB!)
put salty at AAA catching every day
sign someone to be the backup catcher
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
keep max, rotate him between C/1b/DH (GET HIM 500 AB!)
Does that really make sense?
He’s 5’10" or so…so put him at 1B, where Blalock has to play or else he can’t step on the field. Instead, get Max’s ABs there.
Or play him at DH, instead of Bradley (or even Blalock in the event Davis slides back to his natural position).
Max’s bat AS IS makes him an elite offensive asset at catcher – you don’t wreck that value by DHing him. And you certainly don’t get him 500 ABs that way with the team as constructed.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we aren't resigning bradley.
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Oct 21, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
That doesn’t necessitate DHing a catcher.
If Bradley signs elsewhere, Hank’s the DH/bu 1B. Davis gets his natural position back.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
max is most...
…likely a better hitter than catcher, and i could see him being a bit of a professional DH in the long term… i don’t get the harm using him there… who would you rather hit DH? and who plays 3rd in your situation?
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Oct 21, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blalock is the DH/backup 1B if Bradley signs elsewhere (which he probably will).
So then 3B goes to either Metcalf, Duran, or a stopgap – the competition will run to spring training. If the radical plan of promoting Elvis to 2009 Rangers starting SS consummates, Young’s the 3B.
1B is Davis.
Catcher, as this thread illustrates, is another story. You have to figure the herd’s going to thin this winter.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the teams defense sucks already
going into next year it should get slightly better but at the catcher position
you hvae guys whose value comes mostly from his glove (teagarden), mostly from his bat (maxram) and mostly from the fact that hes young (salty) and laird, who we all know has tons of value due to being OMFT.
so what do you do here, make max the backup catcher to teagarden (cant DH, misuse maxram)? let him start over teagarden (teagarden has little value this way, totally misusing teagarden))?
you have too many guys for 1b/3b/dh/c
blalock-1b
metcalf-3b
duran-3b
davis-1b/3b
maxram-c/DH
teagarden-C
salty-C
laird-C
duran should probably play full time at AAA
salty should probably play full time at AAA
that leaves metcalf/davis at 3b
davis/bradly at 1b
teagarden/laird/maxram at catcher
so who is most likely to be traded out of that group? laird
how does that get resolved?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am presuming that were not going to resign bradley
you have to get him ABs somewhere is my point.
now should he play 50 games at 1B? no. but i see no prbolem with him playing 10-15
as we all know blalock is going to either a) get hurt or b) need to play DH some when hes dinged up and thats when you can play him there
he needs to get 500 ABs one way or another. do you REALLY think they are going to give him 300, much less 500 playing catcher on this team (full time)?
not a chance in hell. washington will find some way to fuck it up and have him catch every third day and dh every figth day or some shit like that
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually get him normal playing time
let him build value
his value is about as low as it has been since he was traded for. why would you move him now?
as it is he is not the best offensive player at catcher (maxram) or the best defensive player (teagarden)
how do you build value? let him play full time SOMEWHERE. the only place that seems to be an option is AAA
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On board with
trading Laird (can’t happen soon enough) but I have Salty on the big club catching 50 games (maybe more if TT can’t go) and playing another 100 games at DH. I don’t worry about having my two catchers in the game at the same time. If part of the platoon gets hurt and your DH has to become the catcher, it’s not the end of the world if your pitcher has to take a couple of ab’s in one game.
We all know with a small market payroll we’re not keeping Bradley. I liked having a switch-hitter behind Josh in the line-up and I think with playing time Salty will be somebody who gives you 25 dingers with an OPS approaching .900.
I send Max to AAA and we’ll see how it all sorts out after 2009.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 21, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to see something like this too
Of course you have to have a partner on Laird, and they haven’t found one in the last 15 months. But I like the idea of Teagarden and Saltalamacchia splitting catching duties and Ramirez in AAA if you don’t get the kind of offer for one of them that makes you jump. You get a little more time this way to continue to evaluate your guys, and I think that Saltalamacchia’s trade value would probably go up.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 21, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
saltys value HAS to go up
nowhere else to really go
questions about his bat right now
questions about his glove/arm as well
he just needs consistant PT
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd second that
I seriously doubt we trade more than one catcher this offseason, so an arrangement like this makes some sense.
However, if Teagarden’s trade value is really that much higher than Laird, I’d have no problem with keeping Laird as the starting catcher and sending Teagarden for the higher-quality pitcher.
It’s really hard to gauge the trade value of these four catchers in this market.
by cstorm15 on Oct 21, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i mean if you can trade teagarden for buchholtz clearly you do it in a heartbeat
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
see this is almost how i think it HAS to play out
one gets traded (LAIRD!)
one stays in the majors (probably teagarden)
one goes to the minors
the last one backs up teagarden
its just a question of is it going to be salty or maxram that sticks
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don’t think that they are going to deal Teagarden. I think he’s their guy.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 21, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
and I think Salty will be gone before spring training. I really think a Boston deal will happen. They two GMs obviously have a working relation and have scouted the other org quite a bit. I think a Salty for Masterson or Bowden plus a mid level guy deal is very likely.
Whether Laird get’s dealt will depend on the quality of offers on the table.
by clark on Oct 21, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The complication that I see is that I think that Texas could have done Salty for Masterson at the deadline, and Boston probably wanted Teagarden. Similarly, it doesn’t seem like the Rangers are too interested in Bowden, even for Salty. Bard probably doesn’t headline a deal, so then where do you turn? If Hagadone had had a nice year, this would be a little simpler.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 21, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bard
If the Red Sox offered Bard and Kalish, would you take it? Kalish just turned 20 and the only real hole in his game is his power. He is the sort of player who could really jump if it clicks, and he is currently holding his own in winter ball. Plus, he is still two years away from rule V eligibility.
by clark on Oct 21, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i should mention
i am very bullish on bard…i think he could be a very dominant late inning guy in the near future.
by clark on Oct 21, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not at this point
I’m not high enough on Kalish to do it. Bard, you very well may be right, though.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 21, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why trade Salty when his
value is at his lowest point?
1.5 years ago he was the cornerstone to the Teixeira deal. It’s not outlandish to say that with 550 ab’s Salty will hit 25 HR & 115 RBI if he bats behind Josh in 2009.
What kind of player / pitcher would that bring back on the open market if Salty can play a decent catcher?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 21, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that
for some reason people are anxious to just sort out the situation. They watched him struggle and made a quick judgment, and they just want him out of their hair. I think this is a pretty big mistake, and I think that it’s an odd piece of logic to say that you’ve seen enough to know that he’s not going to be really good, but maybe major league teams haven’t and you can fool them into giving you something good.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 21, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just want him to get playing time – be it at the majors btwn DH and C or the minors at C or whatever may be
his value will go up
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"M’s fans are such weenies." - Zywica
by lonestarJon on Oct 21, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree - Texas is committed to Tea
Which I like although his 2008 ML season is waaay to small a sample. I’d just as soon roll into the season with Tea and Max on the ML team. Max can spell Tea once or twice a week and between C, DH and 1B Max can play 4 games a week or so.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Oct 21, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
If you’re willing to put Salty and Max are on the trading table I don’t see any reason to withhold him.
I’m almost expecting a big drop in production, if not crash and burn for Teagarden in 2009. Looking over his minor league career, all his numbers are wildy inconsistent and which side of the spectrum they rely on seems to be dependent upon him producing a unusually high or a low BABIP. That, along with his strikeout tendencies make me think he’s always going to be a streaky, luck-prone hitter (think a watered-down version of Hank Blalock) which could hurt him badly when it comes to ever establishing himself as a full-time player in the majors.
"M’s fans are such weenies." - Zywica
by lonestarJon on Oct 21, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Er, that should read
“Which side of the spectrum they lie on.”
"M’s fans are such weenies." - Zywica
by lonestarJon on Oct 21, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m concerned about the same thing offensively, but I think that it would take a lot to get the Rangers to deal Teagarden right now.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 21, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
A couple of things here…
First, I think they’d be willing to put Saltalamacchia and Ramirez on the table more so than Teagarden because they think Teagarden is the best catcher of the three. Now, in terms of who the best hitter is, or who the best player would be if they DH’d, that’s probably not the case, but I think they feel like, in terms of offensive and defense, Teagarden is the best bet behind the plate.
Second, I don’t see how his minor league numbers are “wildly inconsistent.” He hit very well in the Northwest League, hit very well in the Cal League, and hit very well in AA in 2007. He didn’t hit in a 19 game stint in AA in 2008, and didn’t hit much in AAA in 2008.
Third, as far as establishing himself as a full-time player in the majors, if you believe Washington when he says that he wants his catchers to focus on defense, being streaky with the bat shouldn’t be an issue if he is okay hitting overall.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 21, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AJM, do you have
any insight as to what TT’s health issues were earlier in this season?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 21, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember mention
of some hand troubles early on, and that it affected his swing. Not sure if I’m correct on that, though.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Oct 21, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrist - per Jason Cole
From May 28, 2008 article/interview:
Catcher Taylor Teagarden entered spring training hoping to put his injuries in the past. After undergoing Tommy John surgery in 2006, Teagarden figured to be fully healthy and ready to catch every day in 2008. But it didn’t take long for the backstop to run into bad luck, as he hurt his wrist at the beginning of spring training, causing him to miss the majority of camp.
.
"I got 10 at-bats in the last three days," said Teagarden of his playing time in spring training. "I had to sit out about three and a half weeks with that wrist injury – most of March. I tried to get as much in as I could so I could just break camp. Then I did and I pretty much went into Frisco just not in game shape."
by shroomer on Oct 21, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His struggles in AAA this season concern me. That’s really the only thing that keeps me from being totally comfortable with committing (by trading others) to him. His MLB stint was much, much shorter, and I’d maintain, even though some don’t agree with me, that numbers in August and September can be very misleading. I still have some fear about his swing and his plate coverage. Totally agree with what you’re saying, though.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 21, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
zywica, when healthy
TT appears to be a bad-ass albeit one that strikes out too much.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 21, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s just a really, really small sample. But he was pretty great.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 21, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, my position on catcher defense vs. offense is already well-known around here
And that is I’ll take the offensive player every time, unless the defensive guy can offer some production that is at least slightly above average himself. And Teagarden still has some major questions about his ability to do that IMO.
That’s why I don’t understand this growing mentality that Teagarden should be held onto at all costs while Salty and Max are the trade bait. I do agree that from the standpoint of balance you’d rather trade one of Salty or Max first, since they are similar commodities, but the idea that Teagarden should be off the table just because he is viewed as the “safer” bet at this point in time is a flawed one IMO. I do agree that from the standpoint of balance you’d rather offer up one of Salty or Max first, because they are similar commodities, but that shouldn’t mean we should be taking Teagarden off the table or putting more value on him than the other two just yet.
I mean lets say we talk the Red Sox into putting Buchholz on the table, but they want Teagarden in return for him instead of Salty or Max – can you really keep him off the table then?
"M’s fans are such weenies." - Zywica
by lonestarJon on Oct 21, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of flawed
That comment came out as hopelessly redundant.
"M’s fans are such weenies." - Zywica
by lonestarJon on Oct 21, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So much of the problem with this organization
is the propensity for taking offense over defense.
TT is going to hit enough to be a good offensive player in The Show.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 21, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
x
I don’t understand this growing mentality that Teagarden should be held onto at all costs
I don’t think anyone is saying he should be held on to at all costs. I think there is some sentiment he’s the best guy, and if all offers are roughly equal, the Rangers should keep him.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 21, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean
I don’t think anyone is saying he should be held on to at all costs. I think there is some sentiment he’s the best guy, and if all offers are roughly equal, the Rangers should keep him.
When you say all offers are roughly equal you mean for Teagarden, Ramirez, and Saltalamacchia, right? Or are you suggesting the value of Laird should be on par with Teagarden?
by FuturePants on Oct 21, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I’m talking about the three young guys.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 21, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats a pretty damn solid group up the middle in the future (if we keep all 3)
borbon
andrus
teagarden
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i submitted a couple of questions to the KG chat on BP later today
www.baseballprospectus.com/chat
hopefully one gets answered lol
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 9:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I submitted one myself
Mine involved the 1st base situation though.
by tyd3311 on Oct 21, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahhh
i asked a question about bowden, a question about some of the less well known guys in their system and a question abotu bos/tex + a catcher trade
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hopefully he picks ONE
of the rangers questions lol
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
great quote from soxprospects.com forms
I don’t want TX to steal from us (similar mistakes from Gagne trade) again for either Laird (can hit but questionable game calling) or Salty (not enough ML experience for hitting & game calling skills). TX is the ML worst pitching staff. Can we trust their game calling skills if we get Laird or Salty? Probably not.
so its automtically the catchers fault if the pitchers sucks…if RA Dickey and Nolan Ryan (circa his prime) throw exactly the same pitches/have the same pitches called clearly one is going to do better than the other
anyway, do the rangers catchers even call all the pitches?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 9:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I hear Kevin Elster calls all the pitches
…using an elaborate system of lights and multi-colored flags from the center field office building.
by Joey Matschulat on Oct 21, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
only when the white sox are in town
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gagne trade
I wonder how much Boston’s front office has the Gagne trade on their minds when trying to put together a trade for a TX catcher? Of course, the logical course of action would be to forget Gagne and try to do the best deal possible moving forward. I would think that is a little easier said than done.
by Jack Nicholson 1974 on Oct 21, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is overplayed
Epstein has to be both pragmatic and confident enough to not be that worried about dealing with Texas. I’d be shocked if he were gunshy.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 21, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless Beltre becomes
a serious major league talent in 5 years, I don’t think Epstein has any traders remorse for dealing what amounts to a 4th OF and an always hurt lefthanded starter for what he perceived to be a good reliever.
JD won this deal but not enough to bother Epstein.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Oct 21, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my thought as well
I don’t think that David Murphy and his .275 .321 .465 line are making him quake in his boots. And Gabbard had a bad year and looks to be headed for a middle relief role. There is probably a bit of uneasiness in the pit of his stomach over Beltre, but that 15/105 BB/SO ratio probably allows him to sleep a little easier. And he knew very well what he was giving up in Beltre.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 21, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this site is great
(For the record, I think Ivan Rodriguez is all feet-to-arm release and nothing else. He’s got a cannon, and he’s got quickness, but he blocks almost nothing and gives up a lot of PBs and contributes to WPs by trying to glove everything. He certainly can’t call a good game. I’ve read that pitchers hate pitching to him because he calls all fastballs when there are baserunners on to keep his CS% up. That’s not the sign of a good catcher, by any means. I’ll take ’Tek over anybody in baseball when it comes to defense.)
HA!
Salty is also f***** young so we could lock him up cheap for a while, and if he turns out to be amazing, we’d have him for a long time
Varitek is not a top 3 defensive catcher. Even if you limited the sample of catchers to “Jason Varitek” and “guys with the last name Molina” he’s not in the top 3
PS) The only Molina that I think matches Varitek in defensive ability is Bengie. They’re both better than Jose. I honestly can’t say much about Yadier because I haven’t really watched him play. But it doesn’t matter… there are your top three right there. Varitek/Bengie at #1, Jose at #3.
If you watched the National League with any regularity, you would know better. Not only is Yadier Molina the best defensive catcher in the Molina family, but he’s the best defensive catcher in baseball, or so says the voting panel that compiles the Fielding Bible.
Varitek’s a top three, he’s not a top three. Who cares?
Dear god. A situation where the Sox trade prospects for Russell Martin seems like a doomsday scenario for me. Don’t touch him with a 10-foot pole.
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see a lot of ...
.. “head looking into the dugout” from our catchers.
by mattrpav on Oct 21, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well the Sox give the praise for their staff to Varitek.
So why not blame our catching for pitching woes? Sox fans ignore that the last couple of years they have had two separate World Series MVPs on their starting rotation (Schilling and Beckett), not to mention the rest of the beasts they have going for them.
Point is, Sox fans = total morons.
by FuturePants on Oct 21, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ruining a Catcher's Value
This is really in response to hightower, but I thought I’d start a new nested thread.
How does starting Salty or Max at DH and letting them backup at catcher twice a week ruin their value? Given the fact that we’re not going to trade three catchers this offseason, we’re going to have more starting catchers than spots available. We can either stash catchers at AAA, let them backup in the majors, or let them hit everyday in the majors.
If Salty or Max started at DH and hit well, their value would probably go up. Instead of being catchers who could hit at AAA, they’d be catchers who could hit in the majors. I think teams are smart enough to realize that we’re deep in catchers and starting a catcher at DH isn’t an indictment of that player’s longterm future at catcher. We’re just overstocked.
Plus, if we can’t convince a team this offseason that Salty and Max are future starters at catcher, I’m not sure if starting them at AAA at catcher will change that perception. In that case, their best value to the team longterm may be as a backup catcher and regular DH (unless we keep Blalock and Bradley, of course).
by cstorm15 on Oct 21, 2008 11:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If they were considered good or even decent defensive catchers your argument would work
But both Max and Salty are considered below average defensively. How does putting them at DH make people feel better about their defensive game? It doesn’t. They may be able to hold their own at the plate but catching once a week isn’t going to make people feel better about trading for them to be their starting catchers.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 21, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if that's the case, will starting one of them at AAA fix that?
We’re under the assumption that Max and Salty are both capable of being starting catchers, but that the league-wide perception may be otherwise. In which case, all we have to do is send them to Oklahoma to prove the world wrong.
Plus, we’re talking about two catchers. If Max starts at AAA at catcher, then what happens to Salty if he isn’t traded?
by cstorm15 on Oct 21, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both go to AAA then
The Rangers have too many people who will need DH ABs. Hammy will need approximately 40 games there. Hank will probably get 25-40. Your various other guys who may need a day off but are swinging a hot bat get 10-20. So you are only looking at somewhere in the 60-90 games at DH. Then as a backup catcher they would only play 40 or so if you are truly committed to Teagarden as your starter. Theres just no way to get them 500 ABs in the majors next year barring injury.
Go down to OKC and they can alternate C/DH. Thats what the minors are for.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 21, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine
But then you run into the same problem. If we send two catchers to AAA, then atleast one of them isn’t getting enough playing time behind the plate to establish himself as an everyday catcher.
There’s two issues here. One is the issue of whether a catching prospect should spend time at DH. There’s a second issue about whether there are enough major league DH at bats available.
My points are focused on the first issue. The second issue will depend on what happens with guys like Blalock and Bradley.
by cstorm15 on Oct 21, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
salty
i thought was seen as avg going into this year
lil help zy? or is this wrong?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Catchers
Catchers’ values aren’t determined by the system’s logjam in front of them. They’re determined by reps on the field.
Max can’t maintain catcher skills by hitting DH and backing up the 1B for the Rangers.
As nice a plan as it appears on paper, I understand there’s no precedent for a DH who caddies the starting catcher around twice a week. That plan seems tailor-made for Max, but it apparently doesn’t work in the real world.
As far as the Rangers go, with Blalock (and maybe even Bradley) coming back, along with Josh needing more rest, DH ABs aren’t going to be available anyway.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on the DH for 2008 point
If Bradley comes back, there won’t be any DH ABs available.
Without Bradley though, it could work on paper. On the days our DH/catcher starts at catcher, the regular starting catcher would have the day off and Hamilton or another player would get the day at DH.
And I guess i don’t understand the concept that a DH can’t maintain catcher skills while only starting twice a week. This year, Salty pretty much did the same thing, except he didn’t DH on his days off. The reason we haven’t seen it before is because we rarely see backup catchers with this type of offensive potential.
by cstorm15 on Oct 21, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did Salty maintain his catching skills?
I wouldn’t say he did. I would say they regressed if anything.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 21, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
If Salty or Max started at DH and hit well, their value would probably go up. Instead of being catchers who could hit at AAA, they’d be catchers who could hit in the majors. I think teams are smart enough to realize that we’re deep in catchers and starting a catcher at DH isn’t an indictment of that player’s longterm future at catcher. We’re just overstocked.
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Considering Max’s rep just on this thread, I’d as soon have him keep “proving himself” at the actual catcher position.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so in AAA?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that may be necessary.
It’s a case of a player’s bat hindering him. He is too good a hitter to be playing once or twice a week. If he was a bad-defense outfielder it’d be different…that slots into DH nicely.
He’s a catcher. He has more value at that position, even in AAA (where, we all know, he hasn’t hit well in 2008).
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats fair enough
so basically you would:
trade: laird
start: teagarden
backup c/DH: salty
AAA: maxram
right?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, again, I understand the bu C/DH role doesn’t exist.
I’d deal Laird and whichever between Tea and Saltalamacchia brings back the most.
Then I’d start the best catcher standing and put the other in AAA.
The Rangers org will feature Tea starting for the ML club and Max in AAA starting next year. That’s my prediction. Somebody will want to give Saltalamacchia a chance, and they’ll pay a good price. Maybe it’s Boston.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who do you go w/ as a backup?
hopefully not melhuse heh
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well with a potential starter in AAA, you can be OK with the Brad Johnson of ML catchers. So, yeah, Melhuse works.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty optimistic
If we’re unable to accept C/DH as an option for one of our catcher’s then we’re forced to deal two catchers this offseason. We can’t put ourselves in that situation and receive the type of return many around here expect. Like Z said above, we haven’t been able to trade Laird over the last 15 months. Now we’re hoping to trade both Laird and another catcher and hope they pay a good price? That’s really optimistic.
Or are you in favor of liquidating someone like Laird for whatever we can get just so we can clear up some space?
by cstorm15 on Oct 21, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re saying the market for catchers is flooded by the two the Rangers would potentially deal?
It’s doable to trade two. For all anyone knows JD may be packaging one in some multi-player offer.
Manuel’s interview the other day said 28 teams would be interested in the Rangers’ depth a couple years ago…now maybe it’s just 10 or 12. That’s still a lot.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There may have been 28 teams interested a couple years ago and 10-12 teams interested now, that doesn’t mean there are a ton of trade partners. Of those 10-12 teams, how many of them have catching as a high priority that they’re willing to pour tradable resources into? Especially since we, like everyone else, seem to be looking for young, major league ready pitching. And how many of those teams don’t already have a young catching prospect rising through the minors?
This probably explains the initial point I was trying to make. I’m not optimistic about the catcher market this winter, and at some point, a catcher like Salty or Max has more value to us as a DH/Catcher than as a trade piece in an underwhelming offseason trade.
by cstorm15 on Oct 21, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That may be
Obviously, if Max can get into the lineup a la 500 ABs as a DH/1B/C, one way or another, that’d be great. The bat is totally qualified, and by itself doesn’t deserve any more bush time.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My friend is a diehard Sox fan and native Boston resident...
…and here is our IM conversation just now:
9:42 AM me: would you trade Masterson for Teagarden, straight up?
how about Saltalamacchia?
Salty is younger
10:04 AM Ian: I would for salty
me: interesting
I’d rather keep Teagarden
10:05 AM he’s like a jason varitek that can hit
10:09 AM Ian: Or a young tek ya mean
10:10 AM me: no, a talented tek
Ian: To bad we are not in charge masterson is pretty nasty
me: If I were the rangers, I would trade a catcher + for Buchholz, ignore Masterson
Not that he is a GM, but I would have figured he would want Teagarden more than Saltalamacchia…
by FuturePants on Oct 21, 2008 11:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
salkty does remind me of a younger tek
but better sooner. Too bad his value is in the toilet.
I'm sorry my parents never had me sarcamsized.
by rchawk12 on Oct 21, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually meant Teagarden reminded me of JV.
by FuturePants on Oct 21, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd still like to see a package centering around ...
Salty for Buchholz in a disappointing prospect for disappointing prospect deal. Buchholz’s stock should be down some after his performance this season. If we could send Salty and an A-ball arm or two and pry Buchholz away, I think that would be huge.
by Athos on Oct 21, 2008 12:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think that you can paint those two with the same brush. Buchholz is vastly suprior as an asset.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 21, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
Hence the sweeteners. Obviously I’m hoping to take advantage of a significant need on Boston’s part as well as, in my opinion, a poor season for Buchholz which is way out of proportion with his prior performance. I doubt Theo is willing to get fleeced again, but you never know.
by Athos on Oct 21, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theo
He’s not trading Buchholz.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 21, 2008 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
kind of like salty
where his value is just about as low as it can get right now…never trade guys at their lowest value…
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 21, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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