13 days to election
as of 10-22
real clear has obama up 7% on average
projected electoral votes...
rcp- obama 364 mccain 174
538 - obama 344 mccain 194
pollster - obama 286 mccain 157 tossup 95
electoral-vote - obama 364 mccain 171 tie 3
karl rove - obama 313 mccain 171 tossup 54
//////////////
"battle ground polls"
FL obama +1.5
NC obama +2
OH obama +2.5
MO obama +2.7
NV obama +3.3
IN mccain +3.8
MT mccain +5.6
WV mccain +6.5
GA mccain +6.8
NM obama +8.4
NH obama +9.4
MN obama +9.6
WI obama +11
PA obama +11.4
IA obama +11.8
MI obama +11.8
5 recs |
704 comments
Comments
TX is a battleground state.
McCain is only up by 20% :)
"Obama is a Christian - He's always been a Christian...But.........what if he is[a Muslim]? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that's not America." Colin Powell on Obama/Muslim assertions.
by AirJordan on
Oct 22, 2008 5:59 PM CDT
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i live in oklahoma
and mccain is up something like 62% to 32%
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on
Oct 22, 2008 6:02 PM CDT
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I'm proud to be in the 32.
Although I have no discernable ties to OK anymore, I don’t even think any of my relatives live there, because it’s the last place I lived in the US before I moved, that’s where my absentee vote went.
by venturafearsnolan on
Oct 22, 2008 6:58 PM CDT
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I doubt they polled OK expatriates
Maybe there are hundreds of thousands of moderates and liberasl that Oklahoma scared off the continent, who’ll all vote for Obama?
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 12:53 PM CDT
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South Carolina ain't much closer.
It’s funny cause three of our four local TV stations are based out of Greenville (SC), but the 4th (ABC, maybe?) is based out of nearby Asheville, which is in North Carolina and you can always tell if you’re watching the one that originates in NC cause there’s Obama/McCain stuff on there non-stop, whereas the SC-originating stations have no presidential shit cause this state is republican as hell.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Oct 22, 2008 9:03 PM CDT
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battleground states
You have a lot of safe states listed there.
by Black Francis on
Oct 22, 2008 6:03 PM CDT
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yeah
michigan mccain gave up on. mccain gave up on new mexico too and is thinking about colorado. but i went ahead and listed them.
some polls released today have mccain catching up on colorado (maybe he won’t give up there?) NC, FL and ohio.
i think mccain should give up on pennsylvania and put his resources back in colorado, florida and ohio. one last push in iowa wouldn’t be a bad idea. i think his campaigning in new hampshire is pretty wise too. but give up pennsylvania already.
hopefully obama continues to air ads in Indiana but DOES NOT visit there. i don’t think it’s really worth it, unless he’s nearby in missouri or something.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on
Oct 22, 2008 6:06 PM CDT
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oh
and i only list PA because mccain insists on spending $$$ there. who knows, it may work, but as i state above it’s probably foolish when he could spend elsewhere.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on
Oct 22, 2008 6:07 PM CDT
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PA
I live in PA, and all the news coming out says it’s over in this state by a fairly wide margin. So people aren’t even listening to McCain anymore here.
by Andy Seiler on
Oct 22, 2008 6:15 PM CDT
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Except that your former deputy attorney general
has filed a motion for obama to provide a copy of his birth certificate. Not saying there is anything to it however it is interesting that Berg is respected official who happens to be a staunch democrat. Obama has yet to respond…
by booyahcaveman on
Oct 22, 2008 6:18 PM CDT
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i'm pretty sure
that obama was born in the US and not kenya.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on
Oct 22, 2008 6:24 PM CDT
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the same nutter
that filed a lawsuit against Bush for the murders of 9/11?
by SteveP on
Oct 22, 2008 6:28 PM CDT
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Actually no,
im pretty sure that the former deputy atty general of PA who is a big time democrat has much more validity than than. How do you answer that since Obama attended school in Indonesia (by HIS own admission) he would have had to give up citizenship in the US thus making him inelgible for the presidency. So it really doesnt matter where he was born, just that he attended school there. Interesting….
by booyahcaveman on
Oct 23, 2008 12:37 AM CDT
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A link would be nice
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 23, 2008 12:43 PM CDT
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Since when do you have to renounce your citizenship...
to attend a school?
I go to school here in Buenos Aires and am still a citizen.
There are plenty of exchange students in the US who are citizens of their home countries.
by venturafearsnolan on
Oct 23, 2008 6:21 PM CDT
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It could be
Indonesian law.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on
Oct 23, 2008 6:35 PM CDT
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But it probably isn't.
What a strange law that would be.
by Black Francis on
Oct 23, 2008 6:37 PM CDT
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re: How do you answer that since Obama attended school in Indonesia (by HIS own admission) he would have had to give up citizenship in the US thus making him inelgible for the presidency."
That is utterly false. Ridiculous.
Final answer.
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 24, 2008 10:01 AM CDT
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Iran
Apparently Iran is considering a strike vs Israel I don’t believe this at all. Very convenient for this to come up now with questions about Obama foreign policy and that other countries will “test” him. Meanwhile this went pretty much unreported in the media.
"Obama is a Christian - He's always been a Christian...But.........what if he is[a Muslim]? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that's not America." Colin Powell on Obama/Muslim assertions.
by AirJordan on
Oct 22, 2008 6:44 PM CDT
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Interesting second link
I seem to remember hearing something along those lines a while back – but maybe I just imagined it. But of course it won’t get any play, as it isn’t consistent with Bush being a complete psycho war monger. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure Bush would have filled up Israels planes himself if he could, but he’s at least a little bit rational.
by JBImaknee on
Oct 22, 2008 6:48 PM CDT
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If it wasn't for
the financial crisis, McCain would have a ~7pt lead. IMHO
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on
Oct 22, 2008 11:12 PM CDT
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But would he have had to tap Palin
if he wasn’t already in desperation mode?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Oct 23, 2008 11:13 AM CDT
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He tapped her before the crisis
Not literally, of course…
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 23, 2008 12:44 PM CDT
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Possibly literally
After all, she admitted they’d only met once, there wasn’t much talking, and it’s not like McCain’s adverse to infidelity :)
by venturafearsnolan on
Oct 23, 2008 6:22 PM CDT
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I wouldn't say no
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 24, 2008 10:09 AM CDT
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I doubt it
but if he wasn’t following the disastrous Bush presidency he probably stomps Obama.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 4:44 AM CDT
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+1 on that
heads up with no past/bush i dont see how obama could compare to mccain (but then again we dont live in a vaccume lol)
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 8:14 AM CDT
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Yep, McCain 2000 whoops Obama's ass
However, if it wasn’t for the debacle that is the last eight years, Obama probably isn’t the nominee, either.
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 23, 2008 12:46 PM CDT
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I dunno
Obama handled the Clinton machine pretty well.
by SteveP on
Oct 23, 2008 3:47 PM CDT
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heres all i have to say
if obama was white and inexperienced would he have beaten clinton?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 4:00 PM CDT
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Not a good question
He’s black. I mean, what if you were black? What would you be doing right now? If you want to ask the question “could a young, relatively inexperienced white male have beaten Clinton” I would say that anything’s possible.
by Black Francis on
Oct 23, 2008 5:32 PM CDT
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im trying to think of a good comparison of an inexperienced (white) guy
but i am braindead from work
how about this, if he wasnt as charismatic as he is would he have beaten clinton? no i dont think so
your right, its a bad question
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 6:28 PM CDT
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Johhn Edwards
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on
Oct 23, 2008 6:36 PM CDT
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That was before McCain bent over backwards to the hard right contingency.
by venturafearsnolan on
Oct 23, 2008 6:22 PM CDT
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That's my point.
McCain had no negatives, except among evangelicals, in 2000. He may have been the most popular pol in the country.
So while the evangelicals could succumb to push polling and atwatering and whatnot, thus derailing McCain in the primaries, like we saw, if the 2000 McCain makes it to the general, he’s pretty unbeatable.
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 24, 2008 10:08 AM CDT
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If it was the McCain of 2000 as opposed to the McCain of 2008
I can’t guarantee I’d have voted for him, but I would’ve felt OK with the election turning out either way.
I can’t say the same today.
by venturafearsnolan on
Oct 24, 2008 10:58 AM CDT
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is it a case of
“obama will say anything to win”
while mccain will DO anything to win?
"At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c*nt."
-John McCain to his wife, in front of reporters
by gossamer on
Oct 24, 2008 1:08 PM CDT
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Why?
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 24, 2008 10:02 AM CDT
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I think
Obama would be winning against old McCain, new McCain, Romney, Huck, or anybody else. Now, if you said 2000 McCain would demolish Kerry, I’d agree.
by brettgardner on
Oct 24, 2008 11:57 AM CDT
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why do you think taht?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 24, 2008 12:13 PM CDT
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Look at
The buzz he creates. That’s going to beat most people in most years. I’d be saying the exact same thing if he were a Republican, too, if you’re disagreeing because you think I’m some partisan.
by brettgardner on
Oct 24, 2008 12:17 PM CDT
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Yes, but he is only 8 or 9 points up
With the last 8 years, and with McCain now LINKED significantly to Bush, unlike the 2000 McCain, and the economy, and it is still close?
Disagree.
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 24, 2008 2:50 PM CDT
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McCain blew it
when he didn’t oppose the bailout.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on
Oct 24, 2008 3:06 PM CDT
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How much better off we would have been if he had one the 2000 race...
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 24, 2008 3:39 PM CDT
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Hooked on phonics, I obviously meant "won"
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 24, 2008 3:39 PM CDT
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Every election
Is trapped in the context of its time, so it’s impossible, and illogical, to wrestle one candidate from context and leave the other one untouched.
by brettgardner on
Oct 25, 2008 1:33 PM CDT
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Any real undecideds out there?
I’m interested to know if that demographic actually exists. There is what, 5-7% in each poll that don’t answer?
Now, you may be insane to actually admit you are undecided with this crowd – you’ll have enut and 4him spamming your e-mail with political ads for the rest of your life – but I’m honestly curious whether such a thing exists or if it is a media creation to get people to watch the news.
by JBImaknee on
Oct 22, 2008 6:45 PM CDT
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I got a few TMs a few weeks ago
Some stuff saying “Obama refuses to be sworn in with the Bible if elected President. He’s a muslim. Vote McCain”. And that was WAY after the whole “Obama is a Muslim” thing was floating around. I just laughed and erased it.
by chrisR on
Oct 22, 2008 7:02 PM CDT
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David Sedaris has some thoughts on undecideds
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/2008/10/27/081027sh_shouts_sedaris
Dreaming of 2009
by RangerMoto on
Oct 22, 2008 7:03 PM CDT
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fun article
I like this quote
To put them in perspective, I think of being on an airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle with her food cart and, eventually, parks it beside my seat. "Can I interest you in the chicken?" she asks. "Or would you prefer the platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it?"
To be undecided in this election is to pause for a moment and then ask how the chicken is cooked.
I think that intelligent people can disagree about whether McCain or Obama will make a better President. But anyone who is truly “undecided” at this point really isn’t paying attention enough for me to want them to be voting.
I will say that “willing to change your mind” is not the same thing. In fact, I’d say that willing to change your mind is something I want most people to be open to.
by JBImaknee on
Oct 22, 2008 7:11 PM CDT
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i dont' agree with sedaris's characterization of the choices
but what could possibly be looking for to change your mind at this point?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on
Oct 22, 2008 9:05 PM CDT
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I dunno
A string of hushed-up murders by one candidate being discovered or a huge scandal that sheds new light on how douchey and corrupt one of them is might do it.
Beyond that…
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Oct 22, 2008 9:08 PM CDT
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i guarantee you
that if it came out tomorrow obama was still using drugs it would end it for him
mccain? i dont know what would totally sink his ship?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 8:15 AM CDT
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I think lots could sink McCain's ship
well… one could argue that it is already mostly underwater anyway. But his populist “I’ll pay off people’s mortgages” message was so horrendous that that alone could keep lots of supporters from voting for him. Fortunately for McCain, he’s backed off it some.
McCain is certainly walking a fine line politically, and has done a pretty good job of it. But as he starts throwing populist policies in there just to get elected, he becomes a much worse choice for President.
Obama could do the same thing too – of course. But he’s been ahead so he hasn’t had to resort to desperation tactics like that. I doubt his base would ever leave him (whereas McCain’s could just stay home). But Obama could lose independents by moving to the left on a major issue. He’s too smart to do that though, and doesn’t need to.
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 9:42 AM CDT
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sry i meant things outside the polotical realm
wasnt specific
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 9:51 AM CDT
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Quasi-outside
Having some more “senior moments,” like he has had the last couple of days (which I don’t fault him for, campaigning is a beating of the highest order), more severe ones, would probably do it.
Also, if that bombastically vitriolic temper of his flares up on camera, I think that’d do it.
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 23, 2008 12:52 PM CDT
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yeah
all he has to do is drop of a few f-bombs on national TV and he’s looking at a 20 point.
Funny enough this likely wouldn’t affect Obama’s chances. Not that he’d ever do that.
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 12:55 PM CDT
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thats true
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 2:46 PM CDT
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David Sedaris...
is hilarious. My girlfriend bought me When You Are Engulfed in Flames, it’s great. The only one I haven’t read, I think, is Barrell Fever.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Oct 22, 2008 9:36 PM CDT
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forgot to mention
the online nickelodeon poll that had obama winning by only 1%
"At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c*nt."
-John McCain to his wife, in front of reporters
by gossamer on
Oct 22, 2008 7:35 PM CDT
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could the RNC
loan obama some wardrobe money?

"At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c*nt."
-John McCain to his wife, in front of reporters
by gossamer on
Oct 22, 2008 7:58 PM CDT
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photoshopped?
somethnig is off in the picture….
or obama has hella long legs
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 22, 2008 8:17 PM CDT
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real pic
it’s the angle that makes the legs look long
"At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c*nt."
-John McCain to his wife, in front of reporters
by gossamer on
Oct 22, 2008 8:26 PM CDT
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not photoshopped.
Shallow depth of field.
by Black Francis on
Oct 22, 2008 11:52 PM CDT
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they both are
im sorry, but i do not really identify with either one of them. hell to start it off both made how many million last year? (or were worth it)
remember, were a republic lol
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 8:16 AM CDT
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hmmmm, that is what they want you to think!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081023/ap_on_el_pr/ap_poll_presidential_race
"Shut the F*** up Lloyd!!"- Superagent Mr. Gold
by kman1415 on
Oct 22, 2008 10:31 PM CDT
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The media doesn't treat the campaigns differently...
nuh-uh, no way…
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/22/study_coverage_of_mccain_much.html
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Oct 22, 2008 11:03 PM CDT
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Would you agree
with O’reilly that the media is “corrupt?”
"Obama is a Christian - He's always been a Christian...But.........what if he is[a Muslim]? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that's not America." Colin Powell on Obama/Muslim assertions.
by AirJordan on
Oct 22, 2008 11:08 PM CDT
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But since story came from a media source
can it really be trusted?
by robert_d_wilfong on
Oct 22, 2008 11:56 PM CDT
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awesome lol
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 8:17 AM CDT
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I'd like to see that study
What do they define as negative?
by Black Francis on
Oct 22, 2008 11:59 PM CDT
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nah, it doesn't have anything to do
with the economic collapse, and mccain’s apparant cluelessness on the topic. nuh uh, no way…
by SteveP on
Oct 23, 2008 12:11 AM CDT
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just for fun...
again i qoute the man, myth and legend:
I’d also challenge you to point me to a post where I’ve used the terms “liberal media bias.”
~ benmor, “OT:DDT”
again, just because you don’t say the words, doesn’t mean its not a drum you beat….
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on
Oct 23, 2008 8:32 AM CDT
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One more thing...
When you run the most negative presidential campaign in recent history, deny the press access to your VP candidate, and forbid certain reporters from traveling with the campaign, what do they expect from the media?
"Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor"
by enut21 on
Oct 23, 2008 12:30 PM CDT
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you do realize he had to do it since the media luvs them some obama
lol
i keed i keed
but really, what did you want him to do. he had to do what he thought he had to do to win. he thought that to win he had to pick palin (which he probably did have to do), and had to protect her, and btw dont act like obama hasnt been negative himself here.
the point is he HAD to do it.
i mean, i guess when your losing in an election you SHOULD run clean ads and just give up, right?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 12:41 PM CDT
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Denies access to the VP?
Palin’s had more Q&A sessions with her press corps than Biden has the last month or so.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Oct 23, 2008 2:07 PM CDT
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Insta-Ben
“I’m not on either side…it is just coincidence that I bitch constantly about one side while passionately defending everything the other side does.”
by Adam J. Morris on
Oct 23, 2008 12:33 PM CDT
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I've never said I'm not on either side.
I’m on the side of divided government, which means that this cycle I’m supporting McCain.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Oct 23, 2008 2:08 PM CDT
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That's dumb.
That just means you have to vote for him, not defend every aspect of his campaign and whine all the time about media coverage.
by brettgardner on
Oct 23, 2008 9:21 PM CDT
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Brett has a point.
I think that argument is complete crap. The fact your brother calls you out on it is pretty hilarious.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on
Oct 23, 2008 9:49 PM CDT
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No, Brett doesn't have a point.
And Adam believes all kinds of silly things.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Oct 24, 2008 7:33 AM CDT
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No answer
On the merits. Telling.
by brettgardner on
Oct 24, 2008 9:00 AM CDT
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OK.
I’m voting for Obama. I’ve followed his career for three years now after reading “Dreams From My Father.” It’s no secret that I’m pro-Obama.
But I also like John McCain. I respect him, I think he’s got some terrific ideas and I think he’d make a decent President.
All that being said (I did so for the sake of transparency): Does anyone else think that Sarah Palin has made John McCain unelectable?
Consider the fact that if McCain is incapacitated, Sarah Palin would hold the same office as Abraham Lincoln.
Let that simmer in your mind for a little bit.
Sarah Palin… Franklin Roosevelt.
Sarah Palin… Ronald Reagan.
Sarah Palin… Thomas Jefferson.
Sarah Palin… George freakin’ Washington.
And it has nothing to do with her being a woman. She is just anti-intellectual, and that kind of scares me.
Oh, and she also thinks that the Vice President is “in charge of the U.S. Senate so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes.” Which is, you know, totally factually incorrect.
I just think that Palin would prove to be the biggest reason for a possible McCain loss.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on
Oct 23, 2008 1:23 AM CDT
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I do like
that the left can bring up Palin’s name, and the name alone conjures up the same level of horror that the the Right has for Pelosi. You just have to say the name and you get the shudder.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 4:52 AM CDT
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That's exactly how I feel
I shake my head in disbelief at every sign that says “McCain – Palin”. How could anyone honestly believe that she deserves to be in the White House?
by hiafex on
Oct 23, 2008 6:37 AM CDT
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my thoughts
who were the other choices?
pawlenty? blah
ridge? would have been a very good pick…but not pro choice
lieberman? sinking ship. would have gotten smoked in a landslide obama victory
romney? in hindsight may have been a good choice, money wouldnt have been an issue (IIRC even w/ the money he took from the gov’t he can spend his own money during the strech run? any ideas?) + would help w/ economy
palin has helped to get more support from the right
now, was she the BEST choice? at the time probably. she was better than ridge/lieberman for sure. she was probably better than pawlenty as well. so that makes her what, at worst the #2 pick?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 8:20 AM CDT
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romney would look genius right now...
…would be the equivelent of obama picking warren buffett…
“oh, the economy is screwed up?… i’m still making money, let me do it for us!”
romney would have been a great pick at this point, but the republican base wouldn’t have come out in droves…
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on
Oct 23, 2008 8:34 AM CDT
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heh
yea thats true
like i said though, was she better than ridge/pawlenty/lieberman
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 8:46 AM CDT
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It sure didn't help with his ongoing argument that Obama wasn't ready
Because he looks 700 times more ready than Palin does.
by hiafex on
Oct 23, 2008 9:07 AM CDT
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I'd say so.
I have several friends that lean right, that can’t bring themselves to vote for McCain because of Palin.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on
Oct 23, 2008 8:26 AM CDT
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If you're not a far right winger
…the pick smacks of judgment problems, and when you’re running against the idea that you’re Bush-like, that’s not a very good problem to have at all.
I disagree with Knockout in that there’s no way she should have even been in contention for VP. There are a LOT of people he could’ve chosen who would’ve been better choices. There are a lot of Republicans out there.
by Black Francis on
Oct 23, 2008 8:49 AM CDT
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who do you think he should have picked that would have given him a better chance though?
personally i was quite interested in jindel but then with the hurricane/him saying no tahnks basically that was that
i didnt mind crest (gov of FL ) either
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 9:10 AM CDT
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btw other than romney
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 9:11 AM CDT
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Just about anybody
If he were truly a maverick he wouldn’t have worried so much about appeasing the base, just like he didn’t worry about it in 2000 when he was a stronger candidate. Bush made him his bitch only because the GOP establishment got behind him really early and he had a shit ton of money.
The Republican Party has thousands of members and holds thousands of elected offices across the country. You’re going to say she was second best among all of them? If that’s true then your party really does suck, man, because Palin hasn’t been very impressive to most people.
by Black Francis on
Oct 23, 2008 5:37 PM CDT
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easy to say
but when you want to win you want to win
who would risk political suicide just to thumb his nose at the party?
btw, if obama were “truly bringing change to washington” he wouldnt have picked biden btw…
and fwiw, palin did what she was supposed to do whic h was energize the base, his chance to win
you think him going with his heart, lieberman, would have been a winner? fuck no. would have been the biggest landslide of the last 50+ years
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 5:42 PM CDT
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Winning
It was a bad pick in terms of winning. She’s energized the base, but that didn’t matter because it was too late in the game. McCain had blown so much money early on that his ground game is still suffering. Even if the evangelicals got in earlier they still need help from the campaign itself.
So his only chance at winning was to grab undecideds and independents, and Sarah Palin has not helped there. There must have been someone in the Republican Party who would’ve been a better pick is all I’m saying. Agreed about Lieberman. He may have indeed brought over some independents and the like but he would have driven away others. McCain should have chosen someone fiscally conservative and socially moderate-leaning-right. The evangelicals would show up just to vote against the Democratic ticket so yeah, he could have taken him for granted.
I don’t think Biden was a bad pick on behalf of Obama. Biden’s been in the Senate a long time, yes, but I think he’s clearly on board with the kind of change Barack Obama’s talking about.
But, anyway, McCain lost this election back in 2007. He only got the nomination because the Republican field was so weak. It’s just not his year. 2000 was, but unfortunately for all of us the money started flowing to W like crazy, and he was also someone who thrilled the evangelical folks. Perfect storm.
by Black Francis on
Oct 23, 2008 5:55 PM CDT
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you really think that if he had picked pawlenty/ridge/lieberman he would be even CLOSE?
yes, romney would look like a great pick…in HINDSIGHT
who do you think he would have picked?
and if you blast mccain for not being the “maverick” by picking palin but then are ok w/ the biden pick thats a fucking huge double standard.
he’s clearly on board with the kind of change Barack Obama’s talking about.
ya know what, i bet palin is “on board” with what mccains talking about as well…
you cant blast mccain for “not being a maverick” and taking palin then talk about how good the obama pick of biden was.
now a pick of kane would have been a “pick for change” but he didnt pick
my undersatndin is that he paniked and picked biden
not that it matters, but he would have won in a landslide had he picked clinton imho
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 5:59 PM CDT
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It's not close
As of right now, anyway, this election is nowhere near close in the electoral college.
I don’t know who I would have picked because I’m not a Republican and no longer work in politics to the extent that I know all the players in the other party. But I do know that I wouldn’t have picked someone like Palin. I would have targeted independents and undecideds like I said.
The ‘maverick’ thing. Let’s ignore the fact that McCain was much more of a maverick in 2000 than he is these days. I’m sure even you’d agree with that. And I will agree with you that Palin is indeed something of a maverick in that she’s apparently willing to take on business interests and appears to have a sincere disdain for corruption (I never really cared about "troopergate"). But the fact remains that she doesn’t help pull in independents and the like. Maybe if she were better known she would have, but she’s not. She just hasn’t added anything to the campaign that really counts. I’m trying to be objective about this. Who’s winning more self-identified independents: Obama or McCain? What was the trend after the Palin choice?
I don’t think there’s any evidence that Biden was a “panicked” decision. Clinton would have been the obvious choice in terms of winning the election, but after the election was over it would have presented problems. I’ve always liked Biden and think he was a good choice because he’s not going to drive away Democrats, independents, and undecideds. He’s also a smart guy who’d be an asset in the White House.
The partisan side of me wants to talk about other stuff regarding Palin, but I will leave it there and just say this: McCain has a bunch of disadvantages and wasn’t going to win this election unless he ran a flawless campaign after the primaries were over. He didn’t, and his VP choice is a part of that in my opinion.
by Black Francis on
Oct 23, 2008 6:27 PM CDT
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But the fact remains that she doesn’t help pull in independents and the like. Maybe if she were better known she would have, but she’s not.
i agree with that but that said mccain to me seemed to be pulling further and further away from the basewho was getting more and more disenchanged with him, palin changed that
biden is smart, he would be a great asset (not saying that at all)
but my thought was that for “change”, etc biden was a pretty not so much good choice (in my conservative eyes) from that side
and +1 on the mccain disadvantages, if ridge was pro-choice he would have been almost perfect in my eyes (wildly popular in penn., strong on homeland security (duh!), etc BUT that was his killer)
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 6:31 PM CDT
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Yeah, but you could have got the base to turn out
by saying black, communist, muslim, terrorist-sympathizer. Didnt need the VP for those Jesus Freaks.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 6:41 PM CDT
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Palin and McCain's flawed campaign
I think Palin is too easy a target for McCain’s impending loss, and your analysis is pretty fair about it. She’s not a strong pick – but I’d argue that she does what she was intended to do. Whether that strategy (tactic?) was correct may be a different story.
McCain put himself in a position that made his VP selection matter too much. Between receiving the nomination and picking Palin, McCain was floundering in some netherland between the Right and Moderates. He tried desperately to make both sides happy for 3-4 months there, resulting in the watered down Independent McCain with little cross-over appeal, yet still not trusted by his base. He managed to put himself in a position where no one liked him.
So he had a choice – pick a conservative VP choice and make the Right happy, allowing him to run to the middle safely; or pick a moderate guy and keep trying to run to the Right. I think McCain thought that Palin may have the potential to be a pick for the Right, but her charisma and limited history taking on corruption would allow her to sufficient to the moderates and he could close the deal by running his type of campaign without worrying about Rush Limbaugh.
Palin’s problems aside, I think the flaw was that McCain didn’t hold up his end of the deal. Palin could be ultra-conservative, botching interviews all day long so long as McCain actually ran as McCain 2000. But McCain stayed in that nether-land between moderate and conservative, He never gave independents a reason to vote for him. That was his responsibility, not Palin, and not that of anyone else he would have picked.
McCain lost this election because I think he just lost his edge in being John McCain.
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 7:05 PM CDT
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Joe Biden could step on day one and be a respectable president
Sarah Palin could not.
That’s the big difference.
by venturafearsnolan on
Oct 23, 2008 7:46 PM CDT
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McCain's puzzle
is that without Palin, he never would have gotten the socially conservative vote. I know LOTS of people who are only going to vote in this election (for McCain) because of Palin.
It obviously was a pick that alienated a big number of people. But I think that it got him more votes from the right than you realize.
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 9:44 AM CDT
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yea i agree with this
but then again palin and i share a lot of viewpoints
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 9:51 AM CDT
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It probably did get him more votes from the right.
But we all know that this election is going to be decided by independents (like myself), and well… she’s not winning indys.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on
Oct 23, 2008 9:54 AM CDT
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No
without Palin, he never would have gotten the socially conservative vote
I don’t believe that for a second.
by Adam J. Morris on
Oct 23, 2008 9:58 AM CDT
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i think one of two things would have happened
either people would have voted for mccain because he was not obama
or people wouldnt have come out at all
i think you underestimate how little john mccain (especially the ’00 mccain) does/did for the “base” of the party.
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 9:59 AM CDT
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x
i think you underestimate how little john mccain (especially the ’00 mccain) does/did for the "base" of the party.
I disagree. I don’t think the base likes McCain at all…if the base would have coalesced around a single candidate in the primaries, rather than having several people it supported, McCain wouldn’t have been the nominee.
But I don’t believe the Dobson crowd would have just stayed home.
by Adam J. Morris on
Oct 23, 2008 10:55 AM CDT
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don’t think the base likes McCain at all…
this is what i meant?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 10:58 AM CDT
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and i doubt ALL the dobson crowd would have stayed home
…but i bet a lot would have
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 10:58 AM CDT
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In any case...
…this makes Palin the frontrunner for the GOP nomination in 2012…
Which would pretty much guarantee Obama 2 terms.
by Adam J. Morris on
Oct 23, 2008 11:00 AM CDT
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Hmmmm
What about when McCain hits the media circuit after he loses and scapegoats her.
Speaking of, doesn’t she have to run in 2012? What, traditionally, do VP candidates who are sitting Governors do after they lose?
If she runs in 2012 and doesn’t win the nomination, it’s her political career dead at a very young age?
Just thinking out loud.
by robert_d_wilfong on
Oct 23, 2008 11:05 AM CDT
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x
What about when McCain hits the media circuit after he loses and scapegoats her.
I think it is more likely Palin hits the Rush/Hannity/Dobson circuit and says she wanted to take it to Obama and talk about the things that really matter to Joe Sixpack, but McCain just wouldn’t do it.
If anyone gets scapegoated, it will be McCain. He’ll be blamed for being too soft, too moderate, not a true believer, and Palin will be another McGovern or Dukakis come 2012.
by Adam J. Morris on
Oct 23, 2008 11:08 AM CDT
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heres a question
can she beat bobby jindel?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 11:10 AM CDT
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In a fight?
Yeah, I think so.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Oct 23, 2008 2:06 PM CDT
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bobby jindal won't run in 2012
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on
Oct 25, 2008 5:23 PM CDT
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Very possible
But I think McCain is a grade a A-hole with a giant ego that will not allow him to go quietly after he loses.
by robert_d_wilfong on
Oct 23, 2008 11:10 AM CDT
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Well
The base already didn’t like him, and they’ll view him bitching about Palin as yet another betrayal of conservative beliefs in a long line of them.
It would just make Palin more popular.
by Adam J. Morris on
Oct 23, 2008 11:15 AM CDT
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Again very possible
Should be some good laughs when McCain does SNL after the election.
by robert_d_wilfong on
Oct 23, 2008 11:18 AM CDT
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If Palin is smart
she’ll go back to Alaska, be the governor for the next 2/6 years, and then run for Senate (either against Stevens (or whoever wins this year) in 2014, or an intraparty challenge to Murkowski in 2010). Then let someone else be a sacrificial lamb to Obama in 2012, and then Palin can come back onto the national scene far more qualified and vetted than now in 2016. She’ll have been either a 2 term governor or a 1 term governor and a Senator – both strong track records – and will have gone through a national campaign.
But you’re right, she’ll probably be stupid and run in 4 years and get slaughtered
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 11:24 AM CDT
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They would have turned out
to defeat the Commie Muslim-extremist black terrorist, regardless of the VP.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 11:27 AM CDT
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The Dobson crowd
First, I’ll confess I am NOT one of them. But I know many who are.
Their fundamental fear is that whoever is the next President will stack the courts with pro-choice, anti-religion judges. If you talk to those people, they are fully convinced that McCain is JUST AS BAD as Obama.
If they boycotted McCain and he lost huge, then they’d have flexed their muscle in the Republican Party. McCain HAD to throw them a bone. He wasn’t going to promise ultra-conservative judges or anything (that’d kill him in the general election), so he offered them Palin. He figured it’d be a statement that the right would care about but no one else would. Prior to Palin, the CW was that VP doesn’t affect people’s choices.
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 11:18 AM CDT
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What's an anti-religion judge?
What does that entail, exactly?
I’m genuinely wondering.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Oct 23, 2008 11:22 AM CDT
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I don't know
Against God in the pledge of allegiance?
Says high school football coaches can’t lead team prayers?
Allow’s gay marriage?
I have no idea – but those are the types of things they would probably say are anti-religion.
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 11:25 AM CDT
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Ah, okay.
So people who are pro-separation of church and state are anti-religion.
That’s disappointing.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Oct 23, 2008 11:28 AM CDT
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i agree with a.j.
…the conservative right might not have come out at 100%… but who else would they have voted for?… they are more ardent about voiting than most groups and would eventually have voted for mccain out of fear for the black guy… they definitly wouldn’t have been swing voters… mccain should have gone after the middle from the start and let the base come to him out of their lack of options…
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on
Oct 23, 2008 10:14 AM CDT
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but thats kind of the point
people WOULDNT come out to vote and for mccain to win he had to get as much of the base as he could imo
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 10:19 AM CDT
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They wouldn't have voted
Prior to Palin lots of these churchgoing, classic red meat conservatives had conceded the election entirely. When I’d ask about McCain, they said “I’m not voting for him because of X” I know lots of these people – because I fought with them saying that they were being silly. They were adamant.
They obviously weren’t going to vote for Obama. But they’d sit home and not vote. Palin changed that. If he had picked a Lieberman or Ridge, sure he’d have nailed many of the independents (10-20% of the country), but that 40% base would have dried up fast, and he’d still be looking at a 10+ point deficit.
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 10:26 AM CDT
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I disagree
since I think, for the most part, this election is a referendum on Barrack Obama. On the ballot, they might as well put:
Obama — D
Not That One — R
Here again why I think the Repubs made a huge mistake by nominating McCain. I think this is a really interesting race if either Romney or Huckabee had received the nomination. At the same time, I think Clinton would have crushed any of the Repub nominees.
by robert_d_wilfong on
Oct 23, 2008 10:55 AM CDT
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I agree that McCain was a disaster choice
and I think that was the problem. McCain is reviled amongst certain Republicans (I won’t say conservatives, necessarily). Hated. For the same reason that many liberals have always claimed they would be “okay” with McCain (up until now), those people despised him.
With his VP choice, he really had three options. Go for the independents with Lieberman or Ridge – but then he’d have lost the far right 20% of the party. Go for a conventional boring pick (Romney, Pawlenty), but then he risks not making inroads with either independents or his base. Or go for a pick to vitalize base and hope that independents like them also. By picking Palin, he shored up the base, and he took a risk that maybe independents would like her. Obviously he was wrong.
But I promise you – if he had picked someone who made independents happy (save possibly Romney), he’d lose this race by 15 points.
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 11:12 AM CDT
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There was an article recently in... I believe the New Yorker
And it wasn’t that anyone in the campaign thought she was the best choice, so much as she was the choice by attrition. That is never, ever a good way to choose the candidate for vice presidency.
by venturafearsnolan on
Oct 23, 2008 7:45 PM CDT
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At least McCain knows whats going to sink his campaign.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/23/mccain-lambastes-bush-years/
“Spending, the conduct of the war in Iraq for years, growth in the size of government, larger than any time since the Great Society, laying a $10 trillion debt on future generations of America, owing $500 billion to China, obviously, failure to both enforce and modernize the [financial] regulatory agencies that were designed for the 1930s and certainly not for the 21st century, failure to address the issue of climate change seriously,” Mr. McCain said in an interview with The Washington Times aboard his campaign plane en route from New Hampshire to Ohio.
“Those are just some of them,” he said with a laugh, chomping into a peanut butter sandwich as a few campaign aides in his midair office joined in the laughter.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 9:21 AM CDT
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See...
…I can’t hate John McCain. He seems like a good enough guy; we just disagree on big issues.
Every time I’ve seen him talk away from the political arena (Daily Show, Letterman, that Catholic charities roast), I’ve really come away impressed.
The problem is that when he starts talking about how we have to be proactive with our foreign policy (read: pick more fights) and that the “health of the mother” is just a loophole, I just can’t take him seriously.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on
Oct 23, 2008 9:30 AM CDT
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heh add biden to the list of what might sink obama
same article as cahill linked
Mr. McCain said Mr. Biden has now as much as acknowledged that the world will be more dangerous if Mr. Obama wins the presidential election.
“We live in a dangerous world and Senator Obama’s running mate has just assured Americans it’ll be a heck of a lot more dangerous if you elect him president,” he said.
Mr. Biden predicted at a fundraiser Sunday that if elected president, Mr. Obama would face immediate challenge from a hostile power or terrorist group intent on testing the first-term senator.
“Mark my words. It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember, I said it standing here, if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re going to have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”
Mr. Biden said Mr. Obama would have to make “some really tough” decisions when that occurs, adding emphatically: “As a student of history and having served with seven presidents, I guarantee you it’s going to happen.”
The Democratic vice-presidential running mate said he could envision four or five scenarios, citing the Middle East and Russia.
Mr. McCain called Mr. Biden’s comment “the most remarkable comment I have ever seen in presidential politics.”
“Now he is saying — if we elected Senator Obama as president of the United States we are going to have an international crisis in these very dangerous times with the economy in the tank?” Mr. McCain said.
At a press conference Wednesday in Virginia, Mr. Obama noted Mr. Biden’s words, saying that although “Joe sometimes engages in rhetorical flourishes,” his central point was correct and a reason to back the Democratic team.
“His core point was, the next administration is going to be tested, regardless of who it is,” Mr. Obama said. “The question is: Will the next president meet that test by moving America in a new direction, by sending a clear signal to the rest of the world that we are no longer about bluster and unilateralism and ideology?”
In a statement, McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds responded: “It’s not leadership for Barack Obama to promise to be straight with Americans, only to dismiss serious statements and concern from his own running mate as simple ‘rhetorical flourishes.’”
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 9:30 AM CDT
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That's a terrific spin job by McCain.
Biden was commenting on the fact that yes, in the first months of his Presidency, he will be tested. Then he went on to say that he is completely ready to take on any challenge.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on
Oct 23, 2008 9:32 AM CDT
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it was a joke since biden has also said numerous other things about obama and that agree with mccain
im actually somewhat suprised no one has brought up his cutting iraq into 3 areas by ethnicity lines lol
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 9:35 AM CDT
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The cutting up of Iraq
happens with us involved or without us involved is my guess. Within a year of us pulling apart, my guess is you will see the Shi’ites in the south trying to secede with the oil.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 9:55 AM CDT
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if the kurds all congregate in the north eventually “kurdistan” will try to break away from turkey and turkey will NEVER, EVER let that happen.
they will invade kurdistan/iraq if they try to break away (and they will)
you can bet on that.
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 9:58 AM CDT
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I believe its very likely to happen
after we leave. I really think it’s inevitable that Iraq goes “Yugoslavia” on us, and trying to hold it together without a strong central force isn’t going to happen, and I doubt our military will continue to be that strong central force indefinitely.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 10:07 AM CDT
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i agree with this to a poitn
but what happens when turkey invades iraq?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 10:10 AM CDT
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I always thought that was a good idea of Biden's
Since it is practically inevitable that an Iraq not run by an iron fist will divide into three parts, it would have made sense to gear our post-war plan to ensure that the transformation was peaceful (as peaceful as possible) and fair. Instead, it’ll likely just go into a 2nd civil war.
There is this weird sovereignty tradition at the UN and in the State department that we should always honor national boundaries and be fundamentally opposed to having more countries. Obviously this is because so many important UN nations (Russia, China) and US allies (i.e., Turkey) have strong separatist factions. But a 3 state solution, with properly negotiated division of oil rights, etc, always made sense to me.
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 12:49 PM CDT
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Yep
always honor national boundaries, even if they were artificially put on the map by the British less than a hundred years ago. Most of the mideast problems are due to artificial British map-making early last century.
If we don’t divide into 3 while we are there, they will divide into 3 after we leave, and, as KoK points out, the Turks will come in, perhaps followed by the Iranians, and we will probably have to come back with the UN.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 2:03 PM CDT
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the turks will invade if it comes to it
IIRC they almost did when we came into iraq in the first place.
they have a STRONG kurd population who wants to break away in their south and add it to a kurdish population that wants independence in the the northern part of iraq and you have a powerkeg waiting to happen
if we did the 3 state thing what would we have done when this happened. how does oil rights get divided in that case? does turkey get some of the money?
its going to be a HUGEEEEEEEEEEEE clusterfuck
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 2:48 PM CDT
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I guess what I'm telling you
is we end up with 3 states either when we are there, or when we are not there. Sure Turkey is going to do something about an independant Kurdistan. However, after we leave, how do you propose to keep it from happening?
We can control the situation when we are there, we have no prayer of controlling it after we leave, and I doubt the American people will support a redeployment.
I see about zero chance of the civil war not happening after we leave, and we are going to leave.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 3:13 PM CDT
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right and right
when we go it will probably go to hell
the question is will this lead to a backlash against whoever the president in power is?
what effect will this have on the cost of oil?
does oil rich iraq attach itself to iran?
does the oil rich part of iraq join OPEC?
question cahill: what do you think we should do? leave ASAP?
its going to be a giant clustefuck…and of course it should be interesting because of syria/turkey/iran/israel already in the region
what happens w/ kurdistan/turkey/iraq and iraq/iran could be catastrophic
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 3:17 PM CDT
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I think we should start dividing it up
while we are there. Because its going to be less of a clusterfuck if we are there to control it then it will be if we are gone. Us being in there will help keep Turkey and Iran out. Us being gone almost insures they will get involved.
I thought we should have tried to divide it earlier though. Time is ticking on our stay there, though
1) The American people won’t let the deployment go on indefinitely.
2) Our Military really can’t react to anything else with half its combat force in Iraq, and the other half repairing, retraining and refitting from Iraq.
3) We can’t afford the level of military presence we have at the tax rates Americans want to pay. It costs a lot of money to keep combat brigades deployed.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 3:24 PM CDT
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once again the 3 points are true
but i dont know if we can control it
again, IIRC turkey basically said they would invade no matter what in order to keep southern turkey from breaking away
iran,eh wont get involved while were there i dont think
but then again i dont think that having us in the area kept them from doing too much as it was…they arent going to march their army across the border i dont think
its gonna be bad…
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 4:03 PM CDT
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Iran is already involved
We have to buy off the militias there to keep the peace.
But yeah, like I and many others have said since before the invasion, this thing is going to be a mess. Dick Cheney said it himself when he was asked why we didn’t go all the way to Baghdad in 1991. Ethnic and religious animosity galore. Suppressed for decades by a dictator and the moment we leave all hell is going to break loose.
To be honest sometimes I don’t even think it matters when we leave. We cannot stop Iraq from destroying itself until it starts to already, and then we go in with a true coalition to stop it and come up with a solution, which will likely be a multi-state one. We cannot occupy Iraq forever. We may as well get out now and get ready to go right back. If not now, the same thing will happen later.
And this is why the “surge” is so misleading. Well the surge is what it is, but those who say we’re winning because of it don’t understand the whole picture. We literally are paying off militias (terrorists) to knock it off. That together with a larger troop presence has helped things to settle down, but both are band aid solutions.
I’m not any more optimistic about the endgame in Iraq than I was two years ago, four years ago, or five years ago. We’re talking about something that could very easily end up in a regional war involving Iraq, groups within Iraq, Turkey, Iran, and maybe Syria. Ethnic cleansing and the whole bit.
by Black Francis on
Oct 23, 2008 5:23 PM CDT
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talking about something that could very easily end up in a regional war involving Iraq, groups within Iraq, Turkey, Iran, and maybe Syria. Ethnic cleansing and the whole bit.
.
agreed
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 5:32 PM CDT
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i gotta believe...
…if biden believed that barack couldn’t stand whatever “international crisis” was coming ready he wouldn’t of brought it up… it spin by dissection and its really lame that american people are dumb enough to take things that far out of context….
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on
Oct 23, 2008 9:33 AM CDT
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now this could actually get interesting - no matter who is elected
Mr. McCain said Mr. Obama’s giant fundraising total — he announced this weekend that he raised more than $150 million in September — is going to produce “a scandal.”
His campaign and the Republican National Committee have released the names of all his donors, including those who have contributed less than $200. That’s not required by federal election rules, and Mr. Obama has declined to release his small-dollar donors, leading to speculation that some donors are trying to circumvent fundraising laws.
“History is a clear indicator. Senator Obama has unleashed a force which we will pay a very heavy price for sometime in the future if not now, because it’s very unlikely we can track down and document the contributions that he refuses to reveal,” said Mr. McCain, who co-authored a bipartisan bill to overhaul campaign fundraising laws.
wasnt there already some questions about obama taking money from foreign nationals?
the story is actually a pretty good read…
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 9:32 AM CDT
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how long would that list be?
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on
Oct 23, 2008 9:34 AM CDT
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who obamas or mccains?
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Donors/
can search by state/name/zip/etc
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 9:50 AM CDT
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Donors
I think only actual US citizens should be allowed to make donations. No corps, LLCs, unions, etc.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on
Oct 23, 2008 10:04 AM CDT
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I imagine that would be impossible to enforce
in a country with free speech.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 10:08 AM CDT
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what will happen is whats already happening
companies will give their people bouuses and request they give it to a certain political candidate
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 10:11 AM CDT
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heh
in chicago a pet fish got a voter registration material lol
The only “agent of change” Princess ever supported was the person who refreshed the water in her fishbowl. Now Lake County election officials want to investigate out how the dead goldfish received voter registration material.
Paperwork sent to a “Princess Nudelman” likely came from the “Women’s Voices, Women Vote” project, said Lake County Clerk Willard Helander, a Republican, who said she has spotted problems with nearly 1,000 voter registrations this year.
“I am just stunned at the level of people compromising the integrity of the voting process,” Helander said Monday. She wants to require some voters to show IDs at the polls if she finds that problems, including nonexistent addresses and questionable signatures or registrations, are clustered in certain precincts.
Beth Nudelman of Buffalo Grove, who owned the fish, said Princess may have ended up on a mailing list because the family once filled in the pet’s name when they got a second phone line for a computer.
“There was no fraud involved,” said Nudelman, a Democrat and supporter of presidential candidate Barack Obama. “This person is a dead fish.”
In August, Women’s Voices, Women Vote sent nearly 1 million mailings to Illinois households using a list that mistakenly included some pets, said Sarah Johnson, a spokeswoman for the not-for-profit Washington, D.C.-based group that seeks to encourage more voting among single women.
The mailing list, purchased from a commercial vendor, included names from warranties, magazine subscriptions and other sources where people may have filled in a pet’s name, Johnson said. The group attempted to screen out the obvious ones.
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 10:13 AM CDT
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omg not 1000 voter registrations!!!! that'll swing the entire election!!!
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on
Oct 23, 2008 10:17 AM CDT
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of course
1000 here, 1000 there, that doesnt make a difference
which is why both sides are going after the other regarding voting lists/registration/fraud
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 10:21 AM CDT
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That's like saying...
a few fraudulent $500 – $1000 Obama donations are no big deal.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Oct 23, 2008 11:15 AM CDT
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but has he only taken a few? (no one knows)
have there only been 1000 shady voter registrations? (no one knows)
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 11:17 AM CDT
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Exactly...
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/10/021856.php
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Oct 23, 2008 11:22 AM CDT
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OK, again.
Voter registration fraud is an exceptionally small problem, because Mickey Mouse and Duran Duran aren’t showing up to vote.
Just pointing that out.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on
Oct 23, 2008 11:30 AM CDT
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you really think its not a big deal?
btw im including voter fraud to stripping names from voter rolls
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 11:30 AM CDT
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I really think that voter registration fraud is not a big deal, yes.
Now, if someone starts registering his REAL name 15 times and voting 15 times, that’s voter fraud.
But registering Mickey Mouse to vote isn’t going to result in anything harmful, because he’s not going to show up at the polls. ACORN is really getting screwed here, because these people they hire are filling out fake voter registration forms just to get paid.
“If I fill out one for each of the Looney Tunes characters, I’ll make a bunch of money!”
It just sucks for ACORN, because not only are they losing money because of these people, but they’re also getting (unfairly, IMO) demonized by the media.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on
Oct 23, 2008 11:35 AM CDT
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ACORN gets what it deserves
you make wages based on that kind of incentive, that’s exactly what happens. we’ve seen the same shenanigans in incentive stock option plans. books are cooked to meet the incentive.
by SteveP on
Oct 23, 2008 12:14 PM CDT
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and its my understanding this
a) isnt the first time ACORN has gotten in trouble for something like this
and
b) is not all that is going on
one way or another it shouldnt be allowed…
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 12:42 PM CDT
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I did read a good point
That while the problem isn’t as much that these fake people are actually voting (though who knows if people are abusing absentee rules in some states), but the problem really is that we’ll inevitably hear “only 60% of registered voters actually voted in the election” and “voter turnout was 30% in this minority precinct – there must have been voter suppression, people must have thrown away their votes!”
Even if everyone knows that isn’t the case, you’ll get people telling segments of the population that the Republicans made sure their votes didn’t count. And they’ll point to the discrepancies in registration/actual turnout as evidence
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 12:45 PM CDT
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Ha, I called it
Palin’s $150K wardrobe will be going to charity, just as I predicted in the other therad.
Really, the smart thing for the RNC to do would be to say that after the election they plan to auction the dresses off for charity. All the rich white women who love Palin will gladly shell out more than cost to get her dress.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/22/mccain-palins-wardrobe-donated-charity/
No mention of the rich white women buying it at auction though.
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 1:03 PM CDT
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uh, NOW they are
just sayin.
will it be the same type of charity that barbara bush donated to after katrina? you know, the one that went to her son. the fake charity.
"At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c*nt."
-John McCain to his wife, in front of reporters
by gossamer on
Oct 23, 2008 1:08 PM CDT
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Aaagggghhh...!
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/10/23/would-obama-dems-kill-401k-plans.html
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Oct 23, 2008 2:16 PM CDT
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If that even came close to happening
you would see a massive rollover from 401ks to IRAs.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on
Oct 23, 2008 2:27 PM CDT
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You'd probably...
also see a movement from paid employees to contractors (so that they could use SEP IRA’s) at middle management and above in corporate settings.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Oct 23, 2008 2:32 PM CDT
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The chances of that happening...
…are about nil…
by Adam J. Morris on
Oct 23, 2008 2:34 PM CDT
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I disagree.
Politicians taking advantage of the general public’s fear of the market? Not nil.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Oct 23, 2008 2:37 PM CDT
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Oh, yeah, I forgot...
It is Obama, the scary black Muslim socialist/communist, coming to strip people’s 401ks from them.
What a sack of crap.
by Adam J. Morris on
Oct 23, 2008 2:38 PM CDT
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I don't care...
if Obama is black, and in the hypothetical scenario that he were a Muslim, I couldn’t give a shit. The socialist label, though, is much more concerning.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Oct 23, 2008 2:43 PM CDT
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Yeah, yeah...
Because Obama is a socialist, and is going to take away everyone’s 401k plans with the connivance of the liberal media, because Joe Sixpack is too dumb to know any better and will be scared into going along with it.
Right.
by Adam J. Morris on
Oct 23, 2008 2:51 PM CDT
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Wouldn't surprise me.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Oct 23, 2008 2:53 PM CDT
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Hah.
I love it when you run out of arguments (which generally happens pretty quickly).
by brettgardner on
Oct 23, 2008 9:25 PM CDT
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Are you forgetting
that Buffett, quoted liberally in that article, has Obama’s ear?
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Oct 23, 2008 10:35 PM CDT
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Buffett is a socialist, too
He’s giving away all his wealth before he dies. Thus, he’s in favor of “redistributing wealth.” That’s socialism, right there.
by Adam J. Morris on
Oct 23, 2008 10:46 PM CDT
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Heh
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 24, 2008 10:14 AM CDT
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This has as much chance of happening
as Clinton’s Health care proposals in 1992.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 2:46 PM CDT
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last week he's a terrorist
this week he’s a socialist. what will they call him next week?
by SteveP on
Oct 23, 2008 3:53 PM CDT
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZING!
WINNAR
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on
Oct 23, 2008 4:31 PM CDT
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haha
Mr. Presumptive President Elect, anyway.
by Black Francis on
Oct 23, 2008 5:25 PM CDT
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Just sad
and it’s only the people on that side that do things like this…
by Longhorn on
Oct 23, 2008 3:24 PM CDT
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The
Barack my world chick is hot.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 3:25 PM CDT
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i think hes talking about this?
McCain staffer says she was mugged, had ‘B’ cut into face
Thursday, October 23, 2008
By Michael A. Fuoco, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Pittsburgh Police are investigating a report by a campaign staffer for John McCain that she was mugged and the letter B was cut into her face following a robbery in Bloomfield last night.
Police say the 20-year-old woman, who is from Texas, reported that the attack occurred after she withdrew money from an ATM at Liberty Avenue and Pearl Street.
She said a man armed with a knife demanded her money. She gave it to him and began walking toward her car, which has McCain stickers.
Although the robber had moved away from her, he became agitated when he saw her car, punched her in the back of the head, pushed her to the ground and carved a B into her face, she reported.
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 4:08 PM CDT
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Why the letter B?
oBama? Bush? Bitch?
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Oct 23, 2008 4:19 PM CDT
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i presumed that was what longhorn was linking to?
beyond that idk
people will make assumptions because she worked for mccain
barack? who knows
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 4:29 PM CDT
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Bullshit?
Which is apparently what even Michelle Malkin is calling this story.
by Adam J. Morris on
Oct 23, 2008 8:30 PM CDT
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yeah
but uberlibs like BZA tend to shrug stuff like that off because it’s the norm of their ilk. He must be use to it by now…
by Longhorn on
Oct 23, 2008 5:46 PM CDT
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heh
I’ve never been shot at with a pellet gun, but try putting an Obama sticker on your car and driving around Frisco. I’ve had people yell, cut me off in an open roadway, flip me off, and give me really dirty looks at gas stations. Very uncivil, but the difference is I know that even though it’s happened numerous times, I will not pretend it’s the fucking norm. How many people live in the Plano/Frisco area? 400,000? Most are probably Republicans and most apparently don’t give a shit what sticker I have on my car.
by Black Francis on
Oct 23, 2008 6:03 PM CDT
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enjoy that lol
i just stay away from talking about politics at work and at home (live with 2 dems lol)
makes everything easier.
confine it to this board + my political oriented friends (of whom 90% are democrats/liberals lol)
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 6:04 PM CDT
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Go play in the kiddy pool.
I come home from class and find this guy lumping me in with scum. Where did I give the impression that I was for knifing women? Who employs you? Do you gather up golf balls at the driving range? I guess they had to find someone to do that.
Of course I don’t shrug this off. It’s terrible. There are crazy people out there on both sides of the aisle. However, lumping me in with someone like that is completely idiotic and typical from your dumb ass.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on
Oct 23, 2008 9:48 PM CDT
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evidently the "most accurate pollster in 04" is saying its a close race
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/Polls.aspx?id=309635713550536
IBD/TIPP Tracking Poll: Day Eleven
McCain has cut into Obama’s lead for a second day and is now just 1.1 points behind. The spread was 3.7 Wednesday and 6.0 Tuesday. The Republican is making headway with middle- and working- class voters, and has surged 10 points in two days among those earning between $30,000 and $75,000. He has also gone from an 11-point deficit to a 9-point lead among Catholics.
obama: 44.8
mccain: 43.7
undecided: 11.6
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 4:33 PM CDT
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Who needs Drudge..
..When we got you?
Anything else you saw on drudge you want to tell us about?
"Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor"
by enut21 on
Oct 23, 2008 4:35 PM CDT
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i just linked to it
now im about to link to what 538 says about it…chill
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 4:37 PM CDT
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yeah, watch out man
these leftist nutjobs get kinda bitchy around this time.
by Longhorn on
Oct 23, 2008 5:47 PM CDT
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wait
you mean i support mccain?
that must mean i copletely ignore all news that i dont agree with
and that i dont want that “radical black muzlem en pow’r fer the next fore years” and i live in the sticks?
/sarcasm
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 5:49 PM CDT
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i live in DC. SW DC for what thats worth.
i work at a place that is OVERWHELMINGLY pro-obama
i have a college degree in political science, i will go to law school one day.
i conider myself to be educated, quite a bit in international affarirs and domestic affairs.
but am i a moron for supporting mccain?
is my viewpoint worth any less than anyone elses because i dont agree with you?
comethefuckon
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 6:01 PM CDT
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but am i a moron for supporting mccain?
is my viewpoint worth any less than anyone elses because i dont agree with you?
nope and nope.
Why has obama refused to disclose his birth certificate?
by Longhorn on
Oct 23, 2008 6:05 PM CDT
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…are you SURE?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 6:06 PM CDT
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But, of course, your contention is that all democrats and liberals are morons.
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 24, 2008 10:19 AM CDT
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not at all
there are valid viewpoints on both sides, and hell i can see how someone who was pro-choice can have a valid viewpoint.
do i agree with it? no but is it something that an intelligent person can backup/support and that i can understand? yes
its like ron paul, do i like his foreign policy? no but can i agree/debate with people who do/who think its valid? of course
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 24, 2008 10:58 AM CDT
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He was replying to Longhorn
It seems his brain consists of little more than an AM radio tuned to conservative talk radio.
by Black Francis on
Oct 24, 2008 11:19 AM CDT
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oops
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 24, 2008 11:25 AM CDT
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Yes, I see nothing to believe that you aren't a bright, reasonable guy that tries to see the other side of an argument
I will say, however, that I don’t think Newt truly believes that statement in your signature, and hopefully you don’t either.
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Oct 24, 2008 2:36 PM CDT
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You're not a moron
If people at work are suggesting that you are, you should figuratively use argument to beat the shit out of them. People who resort to calling you a moron aren’t typically good at arguing, and even a life long Democrat like me understands that a lot of the conservative ideology makes sense. There are lots of ways to embarrass these kinds of dolts who will insult you on the basis of disagreement.
by Black Francis on
Oct 23, 2008 6:33 PM CDT
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just people on here
see its possible to have a talk with you because you understand there are other viewpoints out there that are just as valid as yours, even if you dont agree to them
bravo, sir
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 10:05 PM CDT
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By the way
…I lived in DC for a while. Well, Arlington on Columbia PIke. Took the bus to the Pentagon every morning where I caught the metro to get to work near the hill. It was a hell of a lot of fun.
by Black Francis on
Oct 23, 2008 6:36 PM CDT
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yea i live in SW
work up by mchpearson
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 10:05 PM CDT
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read 538's interpretation of the poll
particularly their breakdown of 18-24 year olds who went something like 72/28 for McCain
by JBImaknee on
Oct 23, 2008 4:36 PM CDT
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heres my question
what if it IS just a typo?
wonder if that skews it at all?
we will see tomorrow (will update)
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 4:49 PM CDT
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fivethirtyeight post about it (nate silver)
So, there is an 0.000000002% chance that IBD/TIPP just got really unlucky. Conversely, there is a 99.999999998% chance that one of the following things is true:
(i) They’re massively undersampling the youth vote. If you only have, say, 30 young voters when you should have 100 or so in your sample, than the odds of a freak occurrence like this are significantly more likely.
-or-
(ii) Something is dramatically wrong with their sampling or weighting procedures, or their likely voter model.
My guess is that it’s some combination of the two — that, for instance, IBD/TIPP is applying a very stringent likely voter model that removes you from the sample if you haven’t voted in the past two elections, which would rule a great number of 18-24 year olds out.
A pollster could get away with a turnout model like that in 2004 (when IBD/TIPP did well in estimating the national popular vote), when the split in the youth vote was relatively small between John Kerry and George W. Bush. They can’t get away with that this year, when the split is much larger
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on
Oct 23, 2008 4:39 PM CDT
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