The BTiA Top 25 Prospect Rankings: Main #1?!
by Joey Matschulat on Oct 27, 2008 2:45 PM CDT
201 comments
With a special word of thanks to Adam and Brett for allowing us to promote our work in a community as powerful as Lone Star Ball's, I'm proud to present BTiA's Top 25 Prospect Rankings as compiled by Jason Parks and myself:
http://rangers.mvn.com/2008/10/the-btia-top-25-prospect-ranki.html
Our special twist? Since the separation between the top three prospects in the system is so minimal, we opted to select three #1 prospects -- ordered from #1A to #1C, though you can certainly look at them as being ordered from #1 to #3 if you so desire -- and standing tall at the very top is none other than DeLand, Florida's own Michael Main.
Jason's assessment of Main, whom he observed in the Fall Instructional League several weeks ago:
Main is the perfect storm of pitching prospects. He has the pure stuff to pitch at the very top of a Major League rotation. His fluid mechanics allow him to uncork a low-to-mid 90s heater with life, to go along with a tight curveball that will occasionally have 11-to-5 movement when he doesn't stay on top of it. His change-up is still developing, but it has above-average potential and is already thrown with good arm speed. He is perhaps the most gifted natural athlete of any player in the Rangers' minor league system, and he has the mental make-up to actually reach the bar set by his physical gifts.
How can I possibly rank Main above two of the top pitching prospects in the minors who are both coming off transcendent seasons that saw them rise from Low A and finish in AA? One word: Promise.
Thoughts, comments, praise and hate mail are most appreciated. Fire away.
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1a, B, C
Ah, come on, just man up and pick one.
Good read. I think Wieland and Ross move up quite a bit by the time you put together your mid-season ranking next year.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Oct 27, 2008 2:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Main
I have trouble imagining an 11-to-5 curve coming from the right side.
An off-kilter curve from a righthanded pitcher would seem to be, say, 1-to-7 based on arm slot.
Yeah? I don’t even know if I’m using “arm slot” correctly here. The angle the arm approximates while completing the pitch, I mean.
Looking forward to reading this, at any rate…thanks for posting.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 27, 2008 2:54 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Main gets 11/5 when he drops down a bit
His curve is more effective when he stays on top of it. Since his curve isn’t all the way there yet, I wanted to point out the different movement.
by jparks77 on Oct 27, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Wouldn’t you have to be lefthanded to throw a curve anywhere NW to SE?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 27, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
x
Maybe he meant from the home plate seats?
by FuturePants on Oct 27, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, serious!
If I imagine throwing a ball at a giant clock face, my arm (like Main, righthanded) lines up with about the 1pm mark.
So, wouldn’t a breaking pitch have to start around there? Wouldn’t it be hard to have it start somewhere in the 10-11pm range?
I know it sounds absurd, but this intrigues me. I feel like I’m missing something simple…
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 27, 2008 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The return og the gyro ball?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 27, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very cool.
Not much to complain about.
The 1a, 1b, 1c is a complete copout, but copouts can be fun sometimes.
I really have to wonder about putting Main above Dutch when Dutch has dominated at a higher level, but if you project Main to be a better pitcher down the road, then kudos to you for having the balls to put in writing.
It’s dissapointing to see Kiker and Beavan sliding on these winter lists, but I still got faith, especially in C-Wun.
Oh, and you squeezed a little Lemon in there in the 20’s. Good for you. He’s the kind of MIF prospect who could end up saving the world someday. He’s that dreamy.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 27, 2008 3:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
J Parks loves some Lemon Potential
Lemon is one guy I am way far away from beign able to really have an opinion on. Everything I read is way all over the place. Potential that he hasn’t tapped yet sort of thing.
by FuturePants on Oct 27, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is something Jason and I internally debated quite a bit
I originally wanted Holland at #1 and it took a LOT of coaxing on Jason’s end for me to relent from my position. It was an extremely tough call and I’m still not sure I feel completely comfortable slotting Main above Holland for the reasons you’ve already stated (premium performance at a higher level, for starters), but we’re going for it regardless.
And let’s not kid ourselves here, either: Main was really sturdy in his time at Clinton, and his command is only getting better. I’m hoping to fly to Surprise next spring and conduct some first-hand assessments myself.
by Joey Matschulat on Oct 27, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like LSB is underrating Lemon.
But I also don’t know what I’m talking about enough to be vocal about that.
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop calling him Dutch
That’s even worse than Der-Hol…
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on Oct 27, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Dutch is a cool nickname.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Oct 27, 2008 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be, if you had a creative or intelligent reason for it
If he, for example, once fucked a girl with wooden shoes, Dutch would be a most epic nickname, and I’d be a bandwagoning fool.
But calling a guy Dutch b/c his name is Holland is such a soft serve, mail-it-in move, in my servilely humble opinion, all due respect to the Huntatron.
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on Oct 28, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
suggestions?
got something better to offer up?
What would you ask Nolan Ryan: "... as a former pitcher, what would you think about having a useless lug standing out there behind you."
Then I'd tell him that useless lug’s name is Michael Young. -- lonestarJesus
by tricer on Oct 28, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely a prerequisite
to a complaint such as this.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Oct 28, 2008 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know the dude
Haven’t seen him pitch.
When I do, maybe I’ll come up with sumpin.
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on Oct 30, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah. You got nothing, chump.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 30, 2008 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
works on the sheild
holland waugenbach is called “dutch”
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Nov 1, 2008 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Difference is
when your nickname is based on your first name they can refer to you as “Dutch” Waugenbach. It seems dumber when they would have to call you “Dutch” Holland or Derek “Dutch”.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 2, 2008 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever, B-Car-T
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 27, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no way that's worse than Der-Hol.
Wow, I hadn’t seen that yet. That’s pretty bad.
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone has ever called him that on here
BT is just trying to use it as a comparison point.
"[Tim McCarver and Joe Buck] are the Gabe Gross and Ben Broussard of the broadcasting booth." - dirkatron
by lonestarJon on Oct 28, 2008 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
It’s really annoying. Next people are going to start referring to Willie Eyre as “Terrorist,” because his name is so similar to the Weather Underground co-founder who’s been back in the news recently.
Remember, people who look at this site aren’t necessarily regular readers. If you were trying to find information about another team’s prospects, you’d hate having to decipher their endless stream of nicknames and initialism.
Never say you can't do something, because when you do, you're likely creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh yeah, and know your limits.
by YourNameHere on Oct 28, 2008 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But isn't that Adam's job?
We’re just having conversation. Is it our job to write in an informational format or in a format of enjoyable conversation? We’re not the ones writing the main blogs and we’re not here to write educational pieces we’re here to respond to them and B.S. with eachother.
This is neither an endorsement or an admonishment of the nickname Dutch. But I do think banning nicknames from the comments section because a new person looking for info might not know what we’re talking about is a little silly.
(I’m still relatively new and still don’t know everything. I like knowing what Adam’s posts are talking about but I don’t expect everyone in the comments to taylor their banter to my misunderstandings.)
by philkid3 on Oct 28, 2008 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Oct 28, 2008 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Main at #1
Plz don’t question yourself…it’s a very good choice.
by Longhorn on Oct 27, 2008 3:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What do you think about your boy Kiker?
You still got the faith?
I’m really hoping he breaks out next year once he gets free of the pitching purgatory that is the Cal League, but I’m struggling to get excited about his chances of becoming an above average starter at this point.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 27, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sup
went to go workout after work.
I’m still a huge fan of kiker. he’s getting better every year, if only he could avoid some of these nagging’ injuries he could turn into something rather special. K/9 is strong, his control has gotten better each year…solid peripherals.
he was drafted as a HS kid, so, he still has some time to go, but if he continues to develop and continues to increase his innings load… i don’t see why he can’t be a solid mid rotation guy, and probably a little better than that if he can up his velo a little. I think he has some time to do that.
i think people tend to get ‘bored’ of prospects if they don’t explode through the system at first. Diamond is still a guy i like a lot. But, for example, look at Holland, he wasn’t even in the top 20-25 on most rangers prospects lists coming into this year, and now look at him…
Is Kiker starting for Frisco this upcoming year? I sure hope he does…
by Longhorn on Oct 27, 2008 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kiker
I would imagine he starts in Frisco and depending on how things shake out in Arlington may end the season in OKC
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 27, 2008 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All good points.
And another is that he sort of gets lost in the shuffle in our loaded system. He’d be a top 5 guy in at least a few systems.
His peripherals are solid so I still got some hope, but the scouting reports keep bringing me down. I wonder how he’s gonna fare in the upper levels if his velocity is really sitting in the 87-89mph range.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 27, 2008 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From a peripherals point of view
I’d even say that Kiker has improved somewhat from his Clinton year in 07 (traded fewer strikeouts for fewer walks, reduced (slightly) HR rate and got more ground balls). If it wasn’t for the murder hole of Bakersfield and his .350 BABIP, he’d look like a shiny new dime.
by Telegraph on Oct 27, 2008 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Surprising omissions - Diamond and Gomez
How close were they and what ultimately kept them from being included?
by spurdynasty on Oct 27, 2008 3:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Diamond was closer than Gomez
Honestly, Diamond lacked that new car smell that I was still high on after returning from instructs. Gomez needs to show he can return from his arm injury before he can crack the top 25.
by jparks77 on Oct 27, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you know how bad Gomez' injury was/is?
by spurdynasty on Oct 27, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wondered the same thing
I thought it was just arm fatigue from the increase in innings.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 27, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OBTW - Awesome write-up
As a good friend of mine from Oregon likes to say – that was more fun than stomping baby chickens!
by spurdynasty on Oct 27, 2008 3:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
List looks right on
I think my prediction for the next year is that we’ll see Ross really move up.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 27, 2008 3:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Can you elaborate on what makes you so high on Ross?
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on Oct 27, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For me it's like the young LA kids.
Until I get to see game results all I can go on is the signing bonus. We paid that kid a helluva lot of money as a second round pick. Our scouts must see something in the kid. I wanna see it too.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 27, 2008 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
90-94 mph FB, very promising slider, hope for a change…supposed to have excellent feel, command, athleticism and competitiveness…was apparently very impressive in instructs.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 27, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitchers: MLB Comp
So if everyone turned out to what there comp is, we’d have
Bret Saberhagen
Jon Lester
Zumaya
Erik Bedard
Jair Jurrijens
AJ Burnett
D. Lowe
Jon Lieber
James Shields
J. Valverde
Zach Duke
John Franco
Jaret Wright
Ricky Nolasco
M. Hampton
G. Meche
by Coolbean04 on Oct 27, 2008 3:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well they do say
sensational.
That’s a little different from predicting an actual comp, more of a stylistic thing.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 27, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prospects
I’m relatively new to the world of prospects. I asked this last year when Kiker flew up to the top of some people’s lists. It seems to me (I concede that I may be wrong) that some prospect ratings get overly excited about the newer/younger guys who are more projectable. Aren’t almost all prospects going to struggle at some point? Just seems to me that prospects get overly “penalized” for these growing pains.
by Randy Richardson on Oct 27, 2008 3:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Very valid
I think Adam has pointed out something similar, that if you take two identical players, one in AA or AAA who has had the chance for requisite warts to show, and one in Low A, so he hasn’t, the tendency from some people is to rate the Low A guy higher. I tihnk that’s where you go back to scouting and determine what each guy is actually showing from that perspective, but it certainly happens, I think.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 27, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
I had Kiker at #15. Still really like him — and was a big supporter of his when we dropped the first edition of the Top 25 in late June — but I couldn’t justify placing him ahead of the guys immediately ahead of him (Hurley, Beavan, NeilRam, et. al.)
by Joey Matschulat on Oct 27, 2008 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kiker and prospects
No problem with your ranking of Kiker. I’ve only been on LSB for about two years, so I don’t know if this is a possible trend of some sort or just that the Rangers have a lot of very low level talent, but it just seems that rankings skew toward younger guys who haven’t revealed their warts yet and penalizes solid prospects who have progressed but lost some of their luster.
by Randy Richardson on Oct 27, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're onto something with that, I think.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Oct 27, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The BA business model
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on Oct 27, 2008 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why I personally
couldn’t rate Main higher than Holland. Both have great potential but we are still looking at Main making a huge jump next season like the one Holland made this season. There is too much that can go wrong in my book that I couldn’t do it. But some people rate their potential higher than their projectability. Riskier, but can make you look a lot smarter :D
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Oct 27, 2008 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if Kiker really went
from a mid-90’s guy to an upper 80’s-low 90’s guy (which are a dime a dozen in the minors), then the lower ranking is justified.
by SteveP on Oct 27, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a question...
I noticed that no one who played 2008 in the Dominican Summer League made the cut. I was curious if any of the following guys were close:
OF – Guillermo Pimentel
SS – Leury Garcia
SS – Edwin Garcia
OF – Juan Polanco
C – Tomas Telis
LHP – Juan Grullon
RHP – Reinier Bermudez
RHP – Anyenil Mendoza
RHP – Kelvin De Leon
RHP – Miguel Munoz
Also, were LHP Miguel De Los Santos, RHP Kyle O’Campo, or C/OF Cristian Santana near the Top-25?
In addition, I’d like to say that it was an excellent read.
Never say you can't do something, because when you do, you're likely creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh yeah, and know your limits.
by YourNameHere on Oct 27, 2008 3:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like some people like O’Campo. I bet he’s right on the edge on BA’s top 30.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 27, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When will we see...
Jamey,
When do you plan on releasing your list? Will it have 72 like last year?
Never say you can't do something, because when you do, you're likely creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh yeah, and know your limits.
by YourNameHere on Oct 27, 2008 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
It will be in the book. List of 72 is done, though I’m tweaking it here and there as I get closer to going to print.
by Jamey Newberg on Oct 27, 2008 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason’s more well-versed on the really young Latin kids than I am, but I do know for a fact that Polanco was close.
by Joey Matschulat on Oct 27, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Telis was very close
Miguel De Los Santos, Juan Polanco, and O’Campo were in the 30-35 range.
by jparks77 on Oct 27, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeez. Just when I feel like I know about all of the Latin dudes from reading Z and JP,
more suddenly hit the prospect radar. Gotta start paying attention to Juan Polanco and Anyenil Mendoza now.
Guillermo Pimentel, Juan Polanco, and Tomas Telis have really nice K:BB ratios.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on Oct 27, 2008 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I live to keep people on their toes...
RHP Ezequiel Rijo is another name to keep an eye on. Rijo turned 18 last month and works with a fastball, curveball and a changeup that are all considered promising. The fastball supposedly sits between 88-92 MPH but has occasionally hits 93-94 MPH.
Anyenil Mendoza has a fastball that sits around 94-95 MPH and supposedly has a good curveball. His changeup might need some work though, but he’s still very young (turns 19 in December). Jayce Tingler, the Manager of the Rangers’ Dominican Summer League, said earlier this year that Mendoza might have been the most talented pitcher on the team.
Reinier Bermudez destroyed the DSL, but then again, he should have as he’s 23-years old. Although by most standards regarding pitchers he’s on the short side (5’ 11"), his fastball has been at 96-97 MPH.
Tingler said earlier this season that Juan Polanco was a five-tool player and that he’d never seen a 17-year-old (Polanco has since turned 18) with the tools Polanco has.
Never say you can't do something, because when you do, you're likely creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh yeah, and know your limits.
by YourNameHere on Oct 27, 2008 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He needs more pitches to succeed in the majors. The off-speed and breaking stuff is still a work in progress.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 27, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Feliz could make an immediate impact at the major league level out of the pen
The Zumaya comp, like all the comps, was just to spark some debate/discussion. I just wanted to emphasize that Feliz could still be a dominate pitcher at the major league level without further development of his secs. It wasn’t my goal to suggest Feliz is limited to the bullpen.
by jparks77 on Oct 27, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Joba route?
When hes ready probably sometime late summer next year bring him up out of the pen. Depending on our closer situation at the time he could be anywhere from a closer to a setup guy to a 7th inning guy. Then let him have a shot at the rotation going into 2010.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 27, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or the Papelbon route?
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Oct 27, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whens Papelbon getting a shot at the rotation?
I wouldn’t mind Feliz as the closer but I would hope thats only because he shows he can’t develop his secondary stuff not because we just keep him there.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 27, 2008 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was going to but had a shoulder injury and the Sox left him in the pen.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Oct 27, 2008 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
A while ago there was a lot of talk about it.
And he actually has a massive, strong repetoire for a closer.
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On this point
I’ve wondered for a while if the Sox plan to turn him into a multi-inning closer. It seems like a waste to put a guy with that arm out there for only one inning.
by jwiscarson on Oct 27, 2008 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they do employ Bill James.
And he’s an advocate of the bullpen ace, so could be.
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
massive rep
According to fangraphs he has 2 fastballs and a slider and only throws the slider 6% of the time. Seems like he lacks a change.
by bushe on Oct 28, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm
He use to throw a split finger, and if you look at old pitch f/x data he did. By 2008 pitch f/x, though, he never threw it once.
by philkid3 on Oct 28, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He still does
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5975&position=P
Scroll to the bottom. He threw it 12.6% of the time. I’m assuming that’s what he meant when he said “he has 2 fastballs”. I don’t know if he necessarily lacks a change, but with his fastball and slider he has no real reason to throw a change in such short relief.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Oct 28, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd prefer
to see him spend all next year (until Sep) in AAA honing the secondary pitches. I don’t like the breaking in as a reliever route.
by SteveP on Oct 27, 2008 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am of the feeling
that it would be good for most pitchers to break in as relievers.
by tyd3311 on Oct 27, 2008 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am of the feeling
that I agree with you.
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You and your "feelings"
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Oct 27, 2008 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feliz is not Joba
Joba had and injury history. Feliz does not. Joba had + pitches besides a fastball. Feliz does not. The Yankees had a need for a setup man in a year in which they were in contention. I don’t think the Rangers are going to contend next year. Why not give leave him in the minors so he can work on his off speed and breaking pitches. Lots of guys have been brought up as members of the pen before they are put in the rotation but that doesn’t seem to be something the Rangers believe in. Needless to say I don’t see how putting him in the pen next year makes him a better starter in 2010.
A little different with Papelbon. He was a college closer than the Sox made a starter. He also had a much better change and slider than Feliz has at this point. He also developed a phenomenal cutter at some point and time. One of the reasons he never got a chance to start was due to a shoulder injury.
This may be a little scatterbrained but needless to say I think it is an awful idea to bring up Feliz next year and have him pitch in the eighth inning. Also he doesn’t really compare to either of those pitchers.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Oct 27, 2008 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feliz
I agree he should be given every opportunity to start. I just wouldn’t mind seeing him up in September next year coming out of the pen getting used to the ML scene and getting some of those jitters out of the way and go into 2010 with a track for a rotation spot.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 27, 2008 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
I think it may actually help him to develop his secondary stuff if he comes up and faces guys who can hit his fastball. Facing better competition may help him realize the need for those secondary pitches and help him develop them faster.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 27, 2008 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
You would be starting his arb clock and using a spot on the 40 man if you bring him up next September. These aren’t necessarily bad things if he is ready for the promotion, but it sure is nice to have CD for that extra year b/c of when he was brought up this year.
I’ve seen a lot of reports that say his fastball might be something MLB hitters can’t hit. Especially if he is facing three batters at a time that have likely never seen him before. He’s going to be able to rely solely on one pitch. Speaking in generalities, most minor leaguers can hit fastballs, especially at the upper levels. Its the breaking pitches that get them.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Oct 27, 2008 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously everyone is hoping that Main will reach his ceiling
but it sounds like a breath of fresh air — if he is really this motivated — to make the litany of teams that passed on him look laughable. It sounds like he should have gone much higher regardless of CF/SP, whatever.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Oct 27, 2008 4:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Very nice...
I think we all have high hopes for Main, but I couldn’t put him ahead of Feliz or Dutch right now.
I also don’t think those three are as far ahead of Smoak and Andrus as some may think. Then there is Perez who could be better than all of them in time. Everytime I look at a new prospect list all I can think about is how loaded this system is right now.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 27, 2008 4:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just Curious:
How do your opinions on Holland/ Feliz/ Main compare to the opinions you had of Danks/Volquez/Diamond a few years back?
by BuckyB on Oct 27, 2008 4:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that is an interesting question
for anyone that would care to answer.
What would you ask Nolan Ryan: "... as a former pitcher, what would you think about having a useless lug standing out there behind you."
Then I'd tell him that useless lug’s name is Michael Young. -- lonestarJesus
by tricer on Oct 27, 2008 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone...
…had Danks, Volquez or Diamond rated as highly as Feliz and Holland are right now, at least on the national scene.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 27, 2008 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
I don’t recall the word ‘ace’ being thrown around with any of those three..
by tyd3311 on Oct 27, 2008 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a lot of people
who didn’t know what they were talking about then. heh.
by Longhorn on Oct 27, 2008 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's odd
Every year, new people emerge as the new #1 prospect. I like to think that there is so much talent you just can’t get a concensus.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Oct 27, 2008 4:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Beltre
Its really amazing seeing Beltre down at #8 when he is considered a legit 5 tool prospect and who just finished a full season league at 18 years old. I know his plate discipline was a problem this past year and it probably will be a problem next year. But I think that kid has limitless potential.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 27, 2008 5:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If I may make one request for these articles in the future...
Could you guys include BR links for the Sensational MLB Comp stuff?
by jwiscarson on Oct 27, 2008 5:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll work on implementing those links sometime tonight
Thanks for the suggestion. I’m very frustrated that we can’t actually accept comments on the website at this moment (as is Jason), but keep ’em coming here.
by Joey Matschulat on Oct 27, 2008 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Borbon's Sensation Comparisson being Juan Pierre. . .
. . . made my heart sink.
Not that I disagree.
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 6:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pierre
I’d take Borbon being Pierre in his prime. He did put up two seasons of very good production in Florida posting .273 & .278 Eqas respectively. Pretty good leadoff man if you ask me.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Oct 27, 2008 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's not really better than I expect him to be.
As long as he really is a plus fielder in centerfield. The average centerfieder this year was a .268 EqA (though .264 over the last five years), so with average defense you’ve got a slightly above average player. That’s not bad at all, it just reinforces the cognitive part of my brain telling me not to buy the hype. But I want to! I want to believe in more!
I wouldn’t be upset with a career of 2004 Juan Pierre’s, I just really want to hope for more.
Also: I couldn’t take the overrating love fest a “spark plug” like that would receive.
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, of course. . .
Juan Pierre hasn’t had a career of 2004 Juan Pierres.
He’s had a career of .346 OBP.
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man
I had a good post all typed up and then got ahead of myself to reply to the one below and it got erased.
But basically I would love for Borbon to come up as a 23-24 year old and have several years like Pierre had. If he could hit like that in his years 24-29 while playing above average CF that would be great. Those kind of players are generally overrated by the media but they still aren’t bad players to have. I’d expect Borbon to possible develop a little more power than Pierre also.
I said some other stuff about how he would be coming to the end of his team control years and we could just let him walk knowing we got the best years out of him for a low cost but don’t feel like going over all that again.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Oct 27, 2008 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not like I think it would be awful.
It’s that it makes the cognitive part of my brain agree with you gain more power over the emotional part that buys the “TOOLSY PLUS FIELDER WHO CAN DO ANYTHING AND WILL BE A STAR” hype.
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't drink the coolaid!
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Oct 27, 2008 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be thrilled if he could be a plus defensive CF'er with a .350+ OBP guy.
Anything over that is gravy.
Gravy made by a naked Jessica Alba.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 27, 2008 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Juan Pierre is so weird.
His career was going fine and then all of the sudden he lost the ability to hit for a high BABIP without, as far as I could tell, suffering a noticeable drop in footspeed.
How does that happen?
He was actually pretty darn good for a couple of years there for the Marlins when he was getting on base at .360-.370, but then his BABIP plummeted and he belly flopped into a gigantic vat of suck, never to resurface.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 27, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know, but you're right.
Makes me interested to see Borbon’s Stars and Scrubs charts in future years.
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW, here's his chart thus far.
And obviously it’s not worth much yet, but still interesting.
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
It was a combo of several things. His strikeout % was the best of his career allowing him to utilize his speed. His walk % was the best of his career. He had a ridiculous amount of infield hits in his best season which probably attributed a good bit to over inflating those #‘s. He was younger which is definitely a huge factor with someone of his skill set. I don’t have any kind of health report handy those years but you never know what kind of calf, groin, hamstring or foot injuries could be ailing a player slightly. Any one of those ailments could have slowed him down substantially in other years.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Oct 27, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MIchael Bourn
A similar, but much less valuable player, landed the Phillies Brad Lidge. Speedy lead off hitter types are often overvalued in trades.
Pierre himself was traded for Ricky Nolasco and two others at one time.
What would you ask Nolan Ryan: "... as a former pitcher, what would you think about having a useless lug standing out there behind you."
Then I'd tell him that useless lug’s name is Michael Young. -- lonestarJesus
by tricer on Oct 27, 2008 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Point
But Brad Lidge wasn’t Brad Lidge when they traded him.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Oct 27, 2008 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
better point
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Oct 27, 2008 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Borbon comp
Is Carl Crawford a reach?
Look up the numbers…without staring at them too long, I call that not even a high-ceiling comp. That’s within reach.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 27, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the one...
I’ve been going with as a ceiling since we drafted Borbon. I kinda buy into the Damon idea, too.
by Jamey Newberg on Oct 27, 2008 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could get behind that.
The hard part is defense being so hard to judge while a player is in the minors.
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MJH
comps Borbon to Crawford, as well. I asked him if Borbon a had floor of Juan Pierre and a ceiling of Ichiro (minus the arm) and he Crawford’d me right in the chops.
Small sample size, I know, but hasn’t Julio been walking like crazy in the Instructs?
by Keynes on Oct 28, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has a 17% walk rate in 46 appearances.
From Scott Lucas’ last offering
by Keynes on Oct 28, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
this is in the AFL, which is much more impressive. He had ten walks in 41 official ABs. I’m a little excited about this whole thing, because it seems pretty apparent that he was working solely on this. His numbers were pretty terrible other than the walks. While you might say that it’s a concern that he struggled to change his approach, I think it’s natural, and even while hitting .244 he put up an OBP of .392.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 28, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops, AFl /= Instructs
Must be infected with that Main fever everyone’s getting these days…
by Keynes on Oct 28, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Crawford'd me right in the chops."
nice!
"They shouldn't throw at me. I'm the father of five or six kids."
-Tito Fuentes, after getting hit by a pitch.
by Haeger Champ on Oct 29, 2008 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hot Carl
He isn’t even 27 yet and was always projected to have 20+ hr power. I would say he doesn’t reach it but he is just entering his “power” prime. Does anyone think Borbon is going to hit 15+ homers?
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Oct 27, 2008 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Borbon has some nice power too
As a fantasy baseball guy, I’ve been waiting on Crawford’s 20 HR power for a while, but he has averaged around 10 HRs per season. I don’t know if Borbon can even get to those 10 HRs, but he looks capable of hitting enough doubles to make up for that.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Oct 27, 2008 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carl Crawford
I see David Murphy (minus the speed) being alot closer to Crawford than Borbon.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 28, 2008 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
Crawford
.400 SLG (412 MiL G)
Borbon
.412 SLG (135 MiL G)
College SLG by year: .450 ; .481 ; .506
Murphy
.407 SLG (507 MiL G)
College SLG by year: .457 ; .526 ; .614
Murphy and Borbon were different college players, but Borbon’s flown up the Minor League ladder compared to Murphy’s progress (he was 24 when he reached AA, and still played rookie ball at 22).
It’s a no-no at LSB, but I like Borbon’s make up. His defense will earn him a long look for the ML club this year, and his personality suggests he’ll maximize that opportunity.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 28, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like borbon too don't get me wrong
I was just saying if we are going to compare someone to Carl Crawford i think David Murphy is the better comp.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 28, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Borbon improved his walk rate even to the point of making it
7.5% or 8% from the 5% he as right now, people would be throwing out comps to Ellsbury…
Same ISOP, same defense, same speed on the basepaths, better LD%… just no walks.
by laxtonto on Oct 28, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Illegal Comparing
You really just can’t compare a black guy to a white guy. It’s pretty much law.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Oct 28, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rules?
Is hispanic to white or hispanic to black OK? I too lazy to look it up in the bylaws.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Oct 28, 2008 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Google is your friend
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Oct 28, 2008 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carl Crawford without the speed is a sucky, sucky ballplayer.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 28, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
kaz and kiker
similar A+ numbers?
Only diff, we aren’t going to rush him…
by Longhorn on Oct 27, 2008 6:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Main
I posted this at newberg but this place gets more action…
Are you guys suggesting that Main and Holland are possible top 10 prospects and almost definitely top 20? I can see a case for Holland but I can’t see a case for Main. I understand the promise/potential that Main might have but alot of being a prospect also comes from what has already been done and I just don’t it would be fair (wrong word but I’m not sure what to put there) to say Main is a top 20 prospect right now, and if you guys don’t think Main is a top 20 prospect right now I don’t think he should be #1 on this list.
by groundingout on Oct 27, 2008 6:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Main.
I don’t think he makes the top 50 (maybe 75?) in most prospect lists. KLaw loves him (IIRC), so maybe he’d have him in there but I think the recent Main love comes from guys like Jason and Jamey who have been able to see him in person at Instructs.
by LiamP on Oct 27, 2008 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was #73 in Baseball Prospectus at mid-season.
How far do you think he’d move up? I don’t think top 50 is a stretch, though I could definitely be wrong.
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
By my (likely wrong) count, 27 of the players in front of him are no longer eligible.
That moves him up to top 50 right there without moving him up himself, but that ignores players who leap-frogged him (Holland alone) and new draftees.
I would definitely not guarantee top 50, but I think it’s possible. He’ll be behind Feliz and Holland by a bit, though. (I assume with Holland.)
by philkid3 on Oct 27, 2008 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm
not really asking where I think he will rank in upcoming lists nationally, rather I’m asking if jparks and joey (jparks especially, he’s the big main guy) think that main is a top 20 prospect in baseball right now. Its bold to make main the #1 prospect in this system but its a bigger statement to say that he is a top 20 prospect in all of baseball and I don’t think one can be said without saying the other unless they are down on Feliz.
by groundingout on Oct 27, 2008 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think, at least on BA’s list, that he’ll be behind Feliz, Holland and Perez.
by LiamP on Oct 27, 2008 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, scratch that.
Went back and checked to see if what I read from BA was correct. Callis likes Main better but says to “watch out for Perez” when talking about the best pitcher not named Feliz or Holland.
My bad.
by LiamP on Oct 27, 2008 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do I think Main will be a top 20 prospect in baseball? No
Do I think should be considered a top 20 prospect in baseball based on his stuff/ceiling/make-up? Hell yes or I wouldn’t have ranked him #1.
by jparks77 on Oct 27, 2008 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I'm asking is
If you made your own top 100 prospect list across the league, would Main be in your top 20. Which I think you kind of just answered above me but you weren’t clear as you said considered. I want a concrete answer lol, is Main a top 20 prospect in baseball to you?
by groundingout on Oct 27, 2008 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Main a top 20 prospect in baseball to me?
Yes. As I mentioned to tball a few day ago, ranking Main #1 is probably a year premature. Statistically speaking, both Holland and Feliz have a more legitimate claim to be ranked #1. However, after watching Main in Surprise, and speaking with several players/scouts, I convinced myself of his worth. Call it a gut feeling or whatever, but the opinion was formed.
I understand if it makes me look a tad eager. Main is definitely a player I want to champion. I make an effort to be objective, but I will admit that my personal relationship with some of the players might influence my position. That is not the case here. I truly believe in his talent.
by jparks77 on Oct 27, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cool
That’s what I was wondering. Its gutsier to call a guy a top 20 prospect in all of baseball than it is to call a guy #1 in a system, even this system. Second question, IMO Feliz is somewhere around the 12th best prospect in baseball, where would you have him at?
by groundingout on Oct 27, 2008 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joey, I like the new Ranger's motto you've created:
It’s not entirely inconceivable!
Go Rangers!
by rooster on Oct 27, 2008 9:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Quick question
How does Main compare to Rich Harden?
Similar build, live arm, good athletes.
Is that a good comparison?
because he hasn't even reached his peak yet, up until this point, he just did it on talent. - Ron Washington on Josh Hamilton
by Lonerangers on Oct 27, 2008 9:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not a bad comp
Harden’s more of a fastball/splitty/slider guy, but they are both good athletes with live arms. Main’s cleaner and probably safer not throwing the slider/splitty.
by jparks77 on Oct 27, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you gentlemen!
That awesome list makes me want to go to bed with my Ranger cap on, oh wait I already do that……well you know what I mean :)
It won’t be long folks when Josh Hamilton will be the new and mproved Mr. October!
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Oct 27, 2008 10:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
improved*
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Oct 27, 2008 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can only hope
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Oct 27, 2008 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome stuf Joey/Jason
"[Tim McCarver and Joe Buck] are the Gabe Gross and Ben Broussard of the broadcasting booth." - dirkatron
by lonestarJon on Oct 27, 2008 10:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great work guys.
Only thing that jumped out at me other than the obvious one, I was surprised Moreland made the list.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45-17 to Troy. 0-12 is only four games away.
by sprite on Oct 27, 2008 11:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not me
big Moreland supporter here. I think he sees time in the Arlington outfield someday not too far off.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Oct 27, 2008 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moreland is my
pick for Rangers 2009 Minor League POY.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Oct 27, 2008 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to go with a pitcher
There’s just so many more high upside pitchers that one of them will stand out more than a hitter.
I think the obvious choice (at least going by these rankings) is Main.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Oct 28, 2008 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or the Arlington bullpen
in another thread, there was a report that at Instructs Moreland was working exclusively as a pitcher with 90-93 fastball and nice slider. It will be interesting to see what they do with him next year.
What would you ask Nolan Ryan: "... as a former pitcher, what would you think about having a useless lug standing out there behind you."
Then I'd tell him that useless lug’s name is Michael Young. -- lonestarJesus
by tricer on Oct 28, 2008 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like a good athlete
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Oct 28, 2008 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Main
My concern with him is his lack of innings so far as a pro. I think his total is less than 90 IP. I would put him in my top 5 but until he pitches a full season I wouldn’t make him #1.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Oct 27, 2008 11:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Max
an amazing talent to have ranked tenth and generating almost no buzz.. Not saying that I would have ranked them much differently, but I’m just pretty damn confident that we will be seeing his name among the ML hitting leaders for the next several years, but he barely cracks our top ten prospect list. Amazing.
And I couldn’t let this thread go by with absolutely no mention of my favorite minor league masher.
What would you ask Nolan Ryan: "... as a former pitcher, what would you think about having a useless lug standing out there behind you."
Then I'd tell him that useless lug’s name is Michael Young. -- lonestarJesus
by tricer on Oct 28, 2008 8:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You love you some Maximus...
Ramirez/Tricer = Lemon/Dirkatron.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 28, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except Tricer hates everything and everyone so when he takes positive interest in a player it's worth noting.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 28, 2008 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tricer : everything :: Dirkatron : Gabe Gross :: Chase Irwin : Greg Dobbs
Boomshakalaka!
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Oct 28, 2008 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tricer : everything :: Dirkatron : Gabe Gross :: Chase Irwin : Greg Dobbs :: SLC : Republicans
He’s On Fire!
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Oct 28, 2008 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
hahahahahaha
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Oct 28, 2008 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best NBA Jam reference ever.
Kudos.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 28, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
substitute MDB for Monseur Gross
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on Oct 30, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minor League Ball Community List
Gotta like where they have Feliz and Holland:
1. MATT WIETERS – C (Baltimore)
2. DAVID PRICE – SP (Tampa Bay)
3. JASON HEYWARD – OF (Atlanta)
4. TRAVIS SNIDER – OF (Toronto)
5. MADISON BUMGARNER – SP (San Francisco)
6. COLBY RASMUS – OF (St. Louis)
7. CAMERON MAYBIN – OF (Florida)
8. TREVOR CAHILL – SP (Oakland)
9. NEFTALI FELIZ – SP (Texas)
10. MATT LAPORTA – 1B/OF/DH (Cleveland)
11. MIKE MOUSTAKAS – 3B (Kansas City)
12. TIM ALDERSON – SP (San Francisco)
13. PEDRO ALVAREZ – 3B (Pittsburgh)
14. RICK PORCELLO – SP (Detroit)
15. DEXTER FOWLER – OF (Colorado)
16. BRETT ANDERSON – SP (Oakland)*
17. DEREK HOLLAND – SP (Texas)
The growing number of Rangers fans on there probably doesn’t hurt. They’re going to be too low on Main, but I bet Martin Perez is surprisingly high. Again, for perspective, Texas has only had one top 20 pitching prospect on BA’s lists since they started in 1990.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 28, 2008 10:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Texas has only had one top 20 pitching prospect on BA’s lists since they started in 1990.
From memory, do you know who the highest was?
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 28, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was Kurt Miller, and I think he was #14 in 1992. I think that their methods have improved quite a bit since then, fwiw.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 28, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miller got as high as #11 in '93.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 28, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pinstripes did a top 50 pitching prospects list and,
and he didn’t even give Main a honorable mention whicth is really dumb.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/10/28/639040/the-pinstripes-top-50-pitc
by Kinslerhomer on Oct 28, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yah
Just coming to post that.
Main’s off (doesn’t make sense) but NeRa’s way up there, and ahead of McGee. Neftali and Holland are predictably top 10.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 28, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez is also high, which I think will be indicative of him making their top 100.
As far as Main, we have to realize (at least if we want to understand where they’re coming from) that he didn’t pitch enough innings to qualify for a league top 20 list. And for these guys, who follow things very closely, unless they read BTiA, Jamey, Mike, Jason Cole, or this blog, the only comments out there on Main from this season are Callis saying that his stuff was mediocre in the MWL. So because he’s a little lazy in his research, guys are apparently under the wrong impression. It reminds me of how behind BA was on Derek Holland in the middle of the year, but at least in that case you had guys like Goldstein and Law providing the national perspective. I don’t think that we’ve seen meaningful comments from Goldstein on Main.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 28, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great work guys.
Enjoyed the read.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Oct 28, 2008 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great read.
The season isn’t even technically over yet and I’m already chomping at the bit to get the ’09 campaign started.
Does anyone have any early predictions for our A ball rotations?
Hickory
- Main
- Perez
- Beavan
- Boscan
- Ramirez
Bakersfield
- Kiker
- Poveda
- Murphy
- Phillips
- Reed?
How far off am I?
by Butters on Oct 28, 2008 10:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No way Main and Beavan don't both start in BAK.
and Poveda and Kiker are gonna be in Frisco. Phillips, too.
I’d say:
Hickory
- NeRa
- M-Per
- Boscan
- Ross?
- Weiland?
Bak
- Beavan
- Main
- Gomez?
- Murphy
- ???
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 28, 2008 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The UNAUTHORIZED 2009 YourNameHere RANGERS' MINOR LEAGUE AFFILIATES ROTATIONS PREDICTIONS...
Oklahoma City- (1) Eric Hurley, (2) Tommy Hunter, (3) Doug Mathis, (4) Michael Schlact, (5) Michael Ballard
Frisco- (1) Neftali Feliz, (2) Derek Holland, (3) Kasey Kiker, (4) Omar Poveda, (5) Jared Hyatt
Bakersfield- (1) Michael Main, (2) Blake Beavan, (3) Tim Murphy, (4) Kennil Gomez, (5) Richard Bleier
Hickory- (1) Martin Perez, (2) Neil Ramirez, (3) Wilfredo Boscan, (4) Carlos Pimentel, (5) Wilmer Font
Spokane- (1) Robbie Ross, (2) Joe Wieland, (3) Kyle “Do I have an apostrophe after the first ‘O’ in my last name or not?” Ocampo, (4) Miguel De Los Santos, (5) Jacob Brigham
Never say you can't do something, because when you do, you're likely creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh yeah, and know your limits.
by YourNameHere on Oct 28, 2008 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Few questions
I have a hard time imagining him going to Bakersfield with the injury he had this year. I think he starts in Hickory and gets the promotion mid season.
No Diamond?
No Gabbard?
Bleier to Bakersfield off the bat?
Font to Hickory off the bat?
Fabio Castillo?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 28, 2008 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll try to answer...
1) I don’t know who the “him” is you’re referring to? Is it Kennil Gomez? If so, there are a lot of guys pushing for spots in Hickory. It’s possible that Gomez stays at A-Ball in Hickory. He did put up pretty good numbers while in Clinton this season, and it’s hard to see how Bakersfield presents more of an injury risk. They might just hold him back as a precaution, but based on his performance, he should be competing against a better class of hitters.
2) I’m guessing that Thomas Diamond is pitching out of the Oklahoma City Bullpen, at least to start.
3) Kason Gabbard is out of options. If he’s pitching in the Rangers’ Minor League System, it’s on an rehabilitation assignment or after clearing waivers.
4) If you’re suggesting that Kennil Gomez goes to Hickory, which might be right on, that really crowds up the Hickory staff. It’s hard to see where else Richard Bleier is going unless they want to hold him back to the start the year.
5) That’s my guess. Again, they could hold Wilmer Font back. A lot will depend on whether Dominican Summer Leaguers such as Ezequiel Rijo, Kelvin De Leon, Anyenil Mendoza and Juan Grullon end up. If those guys, along with guys like William (sometimes known as Matt) Thompson, and Tae Ahn are competing fors spots in on the Arizona League Roster and at Spokane, then I don’t think it’s unreasonable that the Rangers challenge the obviously very talented Font.
6) Fabio Castillo is a tough one. Might start in the bullpen.
When looking back at my list (note that it’s unauthorized), I noticed that Zach Phillips isn’t on there as well. Injuries do play a role in this. Andy Seiler’s comment, which should be right above mine (unless someone posts a response to his comment) correctly points out that there’s just a ton of depth. If there weren’t, I imagine that the Rangers might look at Corey Young as a starter, as the philosophy seems to get the best pitchers starting, and Young is seen as someone who might rise fast as a reliever.
I also wouldn’t be shocked if Beau Jones is given another shot as a starter. If an injury was a factor in Jones’s initial ineffectiveness, and he’s healthy now, than I don’t think the Rangers would so easily concede that the hard-throwing lefty can’t be a starter, especially since he’s only 22 and was in Double-A.
Never say you can't do something, because when you do, you're likely creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh yeah, and know your limits.
by YourNameHere on Oct 28, 2008 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gabbard & Young
Gabbard has one option remaining.
Corey Young will not pitch in rotation. He may beat Smoak to the big leagues.
by Jamey Newberg on Oct 29, 2008 6:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh...
Scott Lucas’s site says Kason Gabbard has no options after 2008. I guess Gabbard didn’t actually use one this year. My mistake.
Never say you can't do something, because when you do, you're likely creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh yeah, and know your limits.
by YourNameHere on Oct 29, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On Corey Young...
I didn’t think the Rangers were going to use Corey Young as a starter. What I said was that if there weren’t the depth of starting pitching in the system, I think the Rangers might have used him as a starter. I should have also added that the lack of lefthanded bullpen candidates at the Major League level, combined with the lack of lefthanded bullpen prospects has made a more clear and rapid path for Young to get to the Big Leagues.
Never say you can't do something, because when you do, you're likely creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh yeah, and know your limits.
by YourNameHere on Oct 29, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad.
Reading comprehension, and all that.
by Jamey Newberg on Oct 29, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No problem...
Not a problem. Do you by any chance have your own prediction of what the Rangers’ Minor League Rotations will look like?
Never say you can't do something, because when you do, you're likely creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh yeah, and know your limits.
by YourNameHere on Oct 29, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
We can all guess, but spring training will matter.
by Jamey Newberg on Oct 29, 2008 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Font
I’d love the org to show that much confidence him. I don’t think they will but that would be great and I think his status as a prospect would skyrocket as I think he’d have success.
by groundingout on Nov 3, 2008 2:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heres a shot
Hickory: NeRa, Perez, Boscan, Castillo, Weiland
Bleier, Pimental, and Gomez start in the bullpen. Later in the year Font and Ross join. Scary, scary good and deep
Bakersfield: Main, Beavan, Tim Murphy, Phillips, Reed/Tatusko
I think NeRa will move up to Bakersfield around early June and take that last spot.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 28, 2008 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ridiculous depth
We simply don’t have any organizational filler when it comes to starting pitching. Pretty much every pitcher is a prospect.
by Butters on Oct 28, 2008 10:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
Comments are finally functional. If any of you feel like dropping us a comment in the article itself, feel free to do so.
by Joey Matschulat on Nov 3, 2008 2:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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