Projecting the 4H Club
I think it was the esteemed Mr. Coffin who originally hung the “4H Club” moniker on Hurley, Harrison, Hunter, and Holland. Ed, if you’re out there, I hope you don’t mind me using/stealing the phrase.
Since 1990, 77 American League pitchers have started at least three games as 22 year-olds in their debut seasons. Interesting names on that list include Appier, Abbott (Jim), Danks, Lester, Mulder, McDonald, Radke, Carpenter, Buchholtz, Volquez, Santana (Ervin), Carmona, Westbrook, Litsch, Verlander, Escobar, Mussina, Hentgen, Harden, Gordon, and Erickson. Joining that list in 2008 were three Rangers (Harrison, Hurley, and Hunter). A fourth is likely to join them as Derek Holland is expected to get his first shot at the major leagues in 2009.
To develop a sense of what we might be able to expect from the Rangers’ 4H club over the next few years, I reviewed the performances of the other American League pitchers who had debuted at the age of 22.
Year-by-year stats
22 yo season – 77 pitchers averaged 12 games and an ERA+ of 96.4.
23 yo season – 67 pitchers averaged 18 games and an ERA+ of 94.0.
24 yo season – 52 pitchers averaged 20 games and an ERA+ of 96.1.
25 yo season – 40 pitchers averaged 19 games and an ERA+ of 100.8.
26 yo season – 29 pitchers averaged 21 games and an ERA+ of 101.2.
The falling number of pitchers in successive years is a combination of players being transitioned to the bullpen, moving to the National League, and failing to remain in the majors. In addition, 18 of the players from this dataset have yet to reach their 26th birthdays, meaning that they contributed to the earlier age categories but not the latter. Overall, 65% of the pitchers that debuted as starters at the age of 22 years old had at least decent major league careers. As a group, the pitchers started as slightly below average and became average to slightly above average over a three to four year period. When you begin to look at the individual pitchers within the collective, it becomes apparent that the pitchers can be readily categorized based on their annual performance trajectories.
Classes of Pitchers
The 77 pitchers in this group can be broken into three primary groups based on whether they were above average (ERA+ > 100), slightly below average (ERA+ = 75-100), or significantly below average (ERA+ <75) in their first years. Each of the three primary categories can then be bisected into pitchers who maintained their first year performance and those whose performance changed as they matured. Provided below are the numbers of pitchers who fit into these six categories and how the pitchers in each group performed on average during the seasons when they were 22, 23, 24, 25, and 26.
Class I - Started hot and maintained
22 pitchers (29% of the total) had an ERA+ over 100 as rookies and then maintained that level of performance through all or most of their careers. On average during the first five years of their careers, the pitchers produced an ERA+ of 138 (22 yo), 110 (23yo), 118 (24yo), 130 (25yo), and 127 (26yo). As a group, the pitchers averaged ~25 starts per year after the ~15 that they started in their debut seasons. Notable examples from this group include Appier, Erickson, Gordon, Harden, Hentgen, Mussina, McDonald, and Zito.
Class II – Started hot and faded
Only 5 pitchers (6% of the total) started with an ERA+ greater than 100 and then posted an average ERA+ below 100 during the rest of their careers. Sam Militello, Doug Waechter, Jason Bere, Jimmy Haynes, and Joe Kennedy are the members of this club.
Class III – Started below average and climbed
14 pitchers (18% of the total) produced an ERA+ that fell in the range of 75 to 100 in their rookie seasons and then managed to become average to above average starting pitchers within 3 years. On average during the first five years of their careers, the pitchers posted an ERA+ of 88 (22yo), 116 (23yo), 106 (24yo), 110 (25yo), and 103 (26yo). Notable members of this group include Ervin Santana, Chris Carpenter, Eric Milton, Brad Radke, Jon Lester, John Danks, and Mark Mulder.
Class IV – Started below average and failed to stick as starters
14 pitchers (~18% of the total) produced an ERA+ that fell in the range of 75 to 100 and failed to remain starters after various numbers of auditions. Eight of the pitchers have become relievers and the other six are either in the minor leagues or out of professional baseball. Members of this group include current and past Rangers Kam Loe, Jason Standridge, John Wasdin, and Matt Perisho.
Class V – Started bad and became good
Only 5 pitchers (6% of the total) comprise this class (Verlander, Volquez, Guardado, LaTroy Hawkins, and JP Howell). Each of these pitchers has experienced success in the major leagues after having rookie campaigns that ended with an ERA+ below 75. Two pitchers who debuted this year (Tommy Hunter and Gio Gonzalez) have a chance to join them.
Class VI – Started bad and never recovered
11 pitchers (14%) started with an ERA+ below 75 and simply failed to remain in the big leagues beyond a few years.
You’ll note that the list above captures only 71 of the 77 pitchers who began their American League careers as 22 yo starters. The other 6, including three Rangers, have just completed their first or second season and have yet to reveal their class affiliation. More than half of the pitchers (38 out of 71) in this analysis have proven to be average to significantly above average major league starters. Approximately ten others have become successful relievers. Worth noting is that slightly more than half of the average to above average starting pitchers from this group were productive as soon as they were called up while the others required as much as three seasons to hit their strides.
So where will the four Rangers that are currently or soon to be members of the 22yo club likely fit in the classification system above? Only time will tell, but I’ll speculate below.
Hurley
In 5 starts spanning 24.2 innings, Hurley posted an ERA+ of 80. Of course, prior to his final start when he gave up 6 ER in 2 innings, Hurley’s ERA+ was north of 100. Depending on whether you believe that an uninjured Hurley would have finished the season with an ERA+ greater than 100 or between 75 and 100, the historical data would suggest that he would have an 80% or 50% chance of becoming an average to above average major league starter.
Harrison
Harrison had 14 starts spanning 77.2 innings and posted an ERA+ of 79. He fits comfortably into the group of pitchers who comprise Class III and Class IV. As such, it would seem that his odds of becoming an average to above average starter in the American League is about 50:50 with a better than 75% chance of at least sticking in the bullpen.
Hunter
In three starts, Hunter pitched 11 innings and was blitzed (ERA+ = 27). Most pitchers with that type of introduction to the big leagues fail to stick as starters. As noted above, the two exceptions are exceptional (Verlander and Volquez). Like Hunter, Verlander and Volquez started only three games as rookies. Hopefully, that’s an omen. In regard to Hunter, it is clear that he was rushed to the major leagues due to injuries to the major league staff. Furthermore, the number of innings that he pitched is far too small to provide reliable numbers.
Holland
The best pitchers in this cohort started well and simply kept it up. Appier, Gordon, Harden, Hentgen, Litsch, Lester, Mussina, McDonald, and Zito all had ERAs of 3.5-4.5 in their first seasons and by and large, maintained or improved their numbers as they went. If Holland is the stud pitcher that he appears to be, then history would suggest that he will be a very productive pitcher beginning with his rookie season.
Bonus Coverage
Brandon McCarthy debuted for the White Sox in 2005 as a 22 yo starting pitcher. He started 10 games and posted an ERA+ of 111. Only Harden, Ben McDonald, Zito, Appier, Mussina, Erickson, Jason Bere, Escobar, and Litsch have started at least ten games at the age of 22 and posted a higher ERA+. Since his rookie season, McCarthy has posted ERA+ of 101, 93, and 106. Based on his peer group, McCarthy should be putting up numbers consistent with a top-of-the-rotation starter.
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Heh
He has fun with these, BBBJ!
"Asphalt me, ben. Asphalt me good and hard." - brettgardner
by inactive lsb user on Oct 3, 2008 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Shiz...
I had a 12 hour seminar today and I read every word. :)

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
12 hour seminar?!?
Who can speak for 12 hours?
So with this
I guess you could surmise that we could get at least two solid starters barring injury…Also, Spursdynasty what is the rate of injury of this set, lets say around 30 or so? thanks!
"There is nothing wrong with a good baseball argument, even if it gets a little personal now and then. If someone here get[s] their feelings hurt because of a blog post they really need to get a grip."
t ball
Based on the available data
I think you are correct in predicting that two of the four pitchers will become productive major league starters. Of course, it is difficult to predict exactly which pitchers are likely to pan out which is why I cringe every time I see a trade proposal that includes any of the Rangers young pitchers. Based on this data set, one decent predictor of major league success appears to be inclusion on BA’s Top100 list in the year or two prior to debuting in the majors. That would suggest that Hurley and Holland have a better chance at sticking as starters than Hunter or Harrison.
The database that I created does not provide injury information. 39 of the pitchers who are at least 24 years old have pitched significant innings in each of the seasons after their debuts. It’s unclear whether the years that the other pitchers spent not pitching in the majors was due to injuries or ineffectiveness.
Matt Harrison in 2007...
Baseball America had Matt Harrison ranked number 90 in their Top 100 prospects in 2007.
Republican or Democrat? You mean I have to pick just one? But what if I love violence AND hate liberty?
by YourNameHere on Oct 4, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for the reminder, YNH
I was thinking Harrison’s #90 ranking was three years ago after his season in Low A, but it was after his A+/AA season which tends to be more indicative of a quality prospect.
Any acronym...
for the Rangers young pitchers must include Feliz.
Therefore it needs to be H4F. What is that on the Periodic Table anyway?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Hydrogen flatulation?
Because the last guy really has gas ?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Oct 4, 2008 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Periodic Table
HF is hydrofluoric acid and that’s the only way hydrogen and fluorine will combine under normal conditions.
I have seen tetrahydrafolic acid (which is a coenzyme in the body) abbreviated as T4F once or twice, but it is normally abbreviated as TFA. Unfortunately it’s been a couple of years since I took biochem so I can’t remember too much more about this othen it is a coenzyme involved with amino acids… and if you have a shortage you’ll get anemia.
About thinking about it more...
If you abbreviate Feliz as Fe, you can create the compound FeH4. Sure Fe with an oxidation number of +4 is rare but it can happen.
Besides this method puts Feliz first among our pitching prospects.
Sorry for the triple post but it's past 2 AM and I can't sleep
Chemistry wise we have a few tiers of prospects
HF – Molecules of this can create the strongest hydrogen bonds known so it is a perfect molecule to represent Holland and Feliz!
BH3 – Boron trihydride. Always one of my favorite molecules because it remains completely stable despite breaking the octet rule. Perfect to describe the antics of the center molecule in this group (Beaven). The other lesser H’s (Hurley, Harrison, and Hunter) join in. Unfortunately it is a non-polar molecule because as polarizing as the opinions are of these four that doesn’t exactly fit.
KBr – Yikes had to go little letter there. (sorry Ross) A nice normal salt… unfortunately like all salts dissolves easily which is a possibility for these young guys (Kiker, Boscan, Ross) Pottasium bromide causes vomiting hopefully it will be for the opposition not us fans.
Pb – Have to use Boscan again (sorry). Perez and Boscan are both fantastic but just like the Romans who shouldn’t have trusted to make their aquaducts out of lead, the Rangers wouldn’t be wise to expect both of these guys to become the aces of the staff if just because they are so far away. …tried to put in Perez in another way but I just couldn’t come up with a formula to – maybe tomorrow I can think clearer.
MdF2 – Radioactive compound because of Md, which kindof fits in with Main, Diamond, and Font’s injury history (well at least for 08) Plus I throw in Feldman because we all know how radioactive everybody’s feelings were about him in 07.
only one thought lol
but how did i not see this coming from chenaults class to today? lol glad to see you putting all those science classes + med school to good use lol
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
Encouraging signs for 2009
15 of the 19 pitchers who posted an ERA+ between 75 and 100 during their rookie seasons and then returned the next year to start at least 5 games posted an ERA+ over 100 in their second seasons. Assuming Hurley and Harrison are healthy in 2009, there is a very good chance that one or both of them will have an above average season.
The most surprising part of this analysis to me was the instant success that many of the pitchers in this category experienced. As noted in the FanPost, Holland could very well put up above average numbers in his rookie year.
Taken together, it seems reasonable to expect two or even three above average major league performances from the young Rangers pitchers next year.
Hurley
He gets forgotten on this board, but I’d love seeing him and Harrison in the 4 and 5 next year, with Millwood, Padilla and McCarthy filling out the rest.
Apart from serious injury hangover, why wouldn’t Hurley pick up where he left off? And I’d just as soon see Feldman back in relief. It won’t happen, but it’d be nice. There’s more upside in other starting prospects.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 4, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Completely agree, Hightower
Hurley and Harrison should absolutely be integral parts of the Rangers rotation next year. Young, second year pitchers have a tendency to be very productive starters.
The thing that I can’t quite grasp is how the Rangers internet community complains incessantly about trading away young pitchers and then fawns over the notion of trading young pitchers for Greinke, Cain, Peavy, etc.
Because not only are Greinke and Cain still young, but they're better than Hurley any day of the week.
by oc on Oct 4, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions
But you are losing players and years in any deal that features prospects for a veteran
Cain and Greinke for the next 2-3 years are likely (though not guaranteed) to be better than Hurley during that time frame, but it is highly unlikely that 2 or 3 years of either Greinke or Cain will equal 6 years of Hurley.
And the real kick in the nuts is when you have to add 2 or 3 other guys from among Holland, Feliz, Andrus, etc to get the deal done. I would much rather have 12+ years of any two top-rated prospects than two or three years of an ace unless I am absolutely guaranteed to be contending for a championship in those 2-3 years. Even then, I would be reluctant to make that trade.
The problem with your fanpost is that it does not address injuries or player make-up.
So while it’s fun to hypothesize how awesome a 22 year-old Eric Hurley might be… he could just as easily flame out like another 22 year-old, first rounder… Jason Jennings.
by oc on Oct 4, 2008 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Injuries are unpredictable
The only way to minimize the effect of injuries is to maximize your talent base. Swapping 3 or 4 players for 1 as has been proposed in the Greinke and Cain deals increases the risk that an injury will affect your team since it is more likely that 1 player will be injured than 3 or 4.
As you correctly point out, there is a reasonable chance that Hurley will fail to produce at the major league level. The same was true of Young and Danks and Galarraga. The win shares for the three pitchers since being traded by the Rangers?
Young – 12, 13, and 5
Danks – 4 and 17
Galarraga – 14
Compare that to Greinke and Cain:
Greinke – 11, 2, 1, 10, 17
Cain – 5, 12, 12, 14
The Rangers have maximized their talent base, you nut.
That’s all your damn fanposts are about.
The difference between the Young, Danks and Galarragga trades and trading Eric Hurley is that, this time, there’s actually depth.… Kansas City needs an outfielder, a catcher, and a pitcher…. Last I checked, we had plenty of parts to spare at all three positions.
And aren’t Hurley, Harrison and Hunter essentially the same pitcher anyway?… I certainly wouldn’t want to miss out on all that average pitching.
Also, I don’t see the point in your win-shares argument. Danks has always had a higher ceiling than Hurley, and Galarragga’s season was a fluke.
And Grienke was only out of baseball for a full year to get his head on straight, while he spent the next season pitching primarily out of the bullpen. …Not sure you can contribute much to a losing ballclub when you’re pitching in such limited capacities.
by oc on Oct 5, 2008 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Win shares and Danks vs Hurley
I provided the win shares information just to point out that there is not a substantial amount of difference between what Greinke and Cain are likely to contribute to the Rangers W/L record and what several recent Rangers prospects have contributed to their teams. A fantasy that seems to be held by many is that the addition of a stud young pitcher is going to significantly change the Rangers regular season performance. I see very little statistical evidence to support that notion. Compared to average starting pitchers, above average pitchers like Greinke and Cain rarely add more than 5 wins (and often contribute less) to a team’s overall win total during a season.
As for the idea that Danks’ ceiling was considered to be higher than Hurley’s, my recollection is that beginning with Hurley’s breakthrough 2006 season he was generally considered to be in the same class as Danks. In fact, much of what is being said about Hurley now (his AAA numbers are not great and his home run rate is too high) is exactly what was being said about Danks prior to this year. I realize this is making a lot of assumptions, but would you trade 6 years of Danks for 2 years of Greinke or 3 years of Cain? What if you had to add Andrus or Davis to make the trade happen?
Greinke is not going anywhere
I think. Dayton Moore had a mini rant yesterday and sounded impatient. I really don’t think he’s going to trade away Greinke. He wants offense, ML ready guys who can get on base, but I don’t see him giving up Greinke to do it.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
The Royals are not going to win a pennant before Greinke hits free-agency.
His ears will very much be open this off-season.
by oc on Oct 5, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Imagine if Spursdynasty...
…actually started using good measures of pitching talent like tRA and tRA+.
What goes past a dynasty? Era? Eon?

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