Francisco Liriano
by CRUSHDAVIS on Oct 31, 2008 4:18 PM CDT
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PrintI was reading on SI a story by Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus and he had a list of 5 radical moves that would give the offseason some sizzle. He proposes a trade of Liriano to the Rangers for Blalock, Andrus, Salty, and Omar Poveda. I think that I would jump all over that trade. This trade allows us to keep Main, Holland and Feliz..
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/10/31/sheehan.trades/index.html?eref=T1
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yes please
"He wants to double the capital gains tax, or almost double it," Huizenga said. "I'd rather give it to charity than to him."
Not anymore.
He tinkered after injury to get away from the bad loading issues he had.
His stuff will likely never be as ridiculously dominant (10-13 k/9) like it was pre-injury, but he’s still got a k-per-inning stuff and his control is only going to better as he gets a better feel for his new mechanics and moves further away from his TJ-surgery.
Yah, I’d go after this guy hard if he’s on the market.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 31, 2008 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Only if...
you find find someone else to replace Andrus in that deal.
Imo Feliz, Davis, Holland, Main, Perez and Andrus should be off the table. I really like Liriano (who doesn’t) but I don’t include any of those players in a deal for him.
I don’t think the Twins would do this deal, but perhaps a Salty, Blalock, Murphy, Poveda/Hurley type package. Problem is I think the Twins would want at least 2 of our elite prospects in any deal for Liriano and that’s a bit too risky for my taste.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
perez?
boscan?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"That wasn’t rain, that was a band of angels pissing on your awful city. Shut the hell up and play." - robert_d_wilfong
by knockoutking on Oct 31, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
liriano
i love me some andrus but hell yeah i’d do that, but no way the twins do without a better pitcher than poveda in return.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
My feeling exactly.
Sub in Harrison/Kiker/Beavan or maybe even Siege and maybe they’d do it… Though I still have my doubts. I don’t know that Blalock is a great fit for them unless the really believe he can play 3b full time next year, and I don’t know why they’d want Salty.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 31, 2008 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Salty
Why would Minnesota want Salty? They have both Mauer and Morneau at catcher and 1b.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
Good point...
Well that shoots down that trade proposal.
Sub in Feliz/Holland/Main for Salty and the Twins may do it. I however wouldn’t.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
i believe it was Carroll
that said, with Mauer’s knee problems, he won’t be a catcher much longer…
"He wants to double the capital gains tax, or almost double it," Huizenga said. "I'd rather give it to charity than to him."
Salty
I would say with Salty’s catching problems, he won’t be a catcher much longer…
by Andy Seiler on Oct 31, 2008 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You know...
I can’t understand the idea of saying, “I want Liriano, but not if it costs me Elvis Andrus.”
i want a Ferrari but not if its going to cost me more than 25k
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
I'd have to say that a few other guys have pitched themselves past him... Tommy John or not...
…But he’s still a very expensive car.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
heh
is he the a tesla roadster though?
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"That wasn’t rain, that was a band of angels pissing on your awful city. Shut the hell up and play." - robert_d_wilfong
by knockoutking on Oct 31, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions
my point was
it’s like shopping for a really expensive car, but then saying you will only pay 1/4 of the price.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
+40
I mean, throwing Feliz/Holland/Main/pitcher into that sentence makes a little bit of sense, but Andrus? Jeez. I like the kid, but, Jeez.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 31, 2008 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah,
I’ve never got the Elvis Andrus is an irreplaceable talent thing.
If you want Liriano, that’s the level of prospect you have to be ready to give up.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Andrus...
Is the only guy that the organization can justify to MY as a reason to move him from SS to 3rd.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I seriously
doubt that is true. There is nothing in MYs history that indicates if the org moves him to 3rd for anyone, he wouldn’t go. I also doubt that Andrus is the only player in baseball he would move for.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
I don't see where he said this
I also doubt that Andrus is the only player in baseball he would move for
Correct...
Not the only guy in baseball. The only guy right now in the Rangers organization.
As far as MY and his willingness to move. I think he was more willing to move from 2b to SS then he will be to move from SS to 3B. He has already made comments about how he isn’t moving or doesn’t want to move in the near future. The only way I can see the team talking him into it is if they can pitch him that they have a great defensive SS coming up that will help the team win. It’s not like MY has been willing to move 3 or 4 times. He did it once, and it seems like he may be stubborn about doing it again. At least that is my take on some of his comments.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
x
He has already made comments about how he isn’t moving or doesn’t want to move in the near future.
So what? What’s he going to do, go home and refuse to play?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 1, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd bet a fairly large amount
that he wouldn’t generate a huge fuss. He doesn’t seem like the type.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Which is why I don't understand the argument...
…that we can’t move Young to 3B for a (fill in a generic shortstop) because he wouldn’t move for that player, and thus we must keep Andrus because only he will be able to make Young move.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 1, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll understand it...
when I see it happen (MY moving for a generic SS). Most of us would have loved to of seen MY move to 3rd yesterday.
’Til then my opinion stands.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Okay
Let’s say it is December. Wash, Daniels, Levine, whomever calls Young/Young’s agent. They say, Hank is rehabbing his shoulder, but he’s not going to be able to play third base, and may not be able to play first base. Chris Davis isn’t really a third baseman. The market for third basemen is terrible right now…there’s no one viable out there to sign.
So we’re finalizing a one year deal with Cesar Izturis to play shortstop for us next year, and we’re going to ask you to move to 3B. We think it will improve the team, help us win, and help us prolong your career.
Now, what is Mike going to do? Pout? Demand a trade? Refuse to show for spring training? Show up, but refuse to play third base? Play third base, but throw a tantrum and become a huge ass in the clubhouse?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 1, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know what...
he would do. No one does ’til it happens.
However it sounds like you feel it shouldn’t be a big deal and I think MY feels differently. I realize there isn’t much he could do about it other than say he would like to stay at SS, but he may say that. Then what do you tell him, we are moving you whetether you like it or not for Cesar Izturis?
If what you are saying is right then MY will be moving to 3rd this year, right? I think most in the organization believe he doesn’t have the range to play SS so why not do it now? I don’t think it will happen because they know they have to play their cards the right way and ask him to make that move under the right circumstances. I don’t believe MY or the organization feels someone like Izturis would be the right circumsatnce (although I would love to see that happen).
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
How confident are you that JD would call that meeting?
I think MY would probably relent without causing much of a fuss, but I’m not sure that JD would call the meeting in the first place.
I guess the only precedent we have would be the Soriano situation – and in that case JD didn’t bother to ask the player to switch positions, for whatever reason.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
NIce to see...
that you have finally switched your avatar to your man crush.
Now all we need is Dirkatron to put a pic of Lemon in his and it’s on.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
And deprive my adoring LSB faithful the sight of this ruggedly handsome Brawny Paper Towel Guy-esque physique of mine?
Not a chance.
Besides, Longhorn’s already got that shit on lock.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Well...
In the case of Soriano, I think Daniels felt like he was getting back a guy who would be as good an OF’er as Soriano, and who was cheaper.
I know I, heading into the 2006 season, would have rather had Brad Wilkerson in LF than Soriano.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 1, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
moving Young
do you think there is a realistic chance that JD brings in a SS, rather than a 3B this offseason?
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
MY to 3B
The PR angle alone necessitates you make that move in a careful way.
It’s not just about telling Young what to do because you’re his employer. The revenue to pay Young’s contract is a far higher priority to Hicks.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 1, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
What PR angle?
You think Rangers fans are going to quit coming to the ballpark because he’s playing 3B instead of SS?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 1, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
You decide
Maybe “Face of the Franchise” is just a blog meme and a way for LSBers to poke fun.
Next year Young will still be this, along with probably being the highest paid Ranger. Shoving that guy around the diamond for whichever replacement looks bad, and yeah I think kids come specifically to see Michael Young play.
No matter what, Young’s move will generate press (same as when he moved off 2B) and some of that will reflect on the org. The Rangers are still the red-headed stepchild of the metroplex, so I know they keep that in mind.
Winning supercedes all this, so here’s hoping they move him and it’s an on-the-field success. Otherwise it’s prudent to keep the figurehead player looking his best.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 1, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Excellent point
For this reason alone, I don’t see Face moving until after next season.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by inactive lsb user on Nov 2, 2008 4:27 AM CDT up reply actions
dunno if the trade makes sense
but id do that in a heartbeat for liriano. andrus is cool and all and im sure you guys really want an athletic guy at ss after watching MY the last few years but its like giving up and omar viquel wannabe for a potential ace.
get liriano without giving up feliz, holland, main, perez, or smoak is a no brainer
or davis
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"That wasn’t rain, that was a band of angels pissing on your awful city. Shut the hell up and play." - robert_d_wilfong
by knockoutking on Oct 31, 2008 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions
i think Davis is in the category of Kinsler and Hamilton
where you dont have to say a trade proposal is good because we wouldnt have to give CD up…. because its already a foregone conclusion that he’s untouchable…
I make it in a heartbeat
My gut tells me that Andrus is more valuable as a trade chip than on this team (we can always sign adam everett)
Adam Everett is an atrocious hitter
And his defense has regressed roughly 20 plays a year since 2006, to the point where he actually notched a -1 in terms of plus/minus in ’08.
Is that entirely a product of the Minnesota turf? Perhaps. But perhaps not.
by Joey Matschulat on Nov 3, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
I have been a Ranger fan since the mid 70's,
and in that time, we have almost always sucked at SS. It isn’t a position of strength by any stretch. Presently, we have one quality prospect at the position. No offense to the Dirkness, but Lemon ain’t gonna cut it there. From all the reports, not only is he MLB glove ready at a young age, but he’s stocked with all intangibles one looks for at SS. Also, I have to say I fall into the camp of seeing what the farm can produce. In the past, mgmt. lacked the patience to develop players. Now that it appears as if mgmt. is willing to be patient, I would like to see it pay off. Spurdynasty put together the trading for an ace post which further cemented my feelings that it’s time for JD & Nolan to stand pat. Sign some FA’s or do 1 for 1 or 2 for 1 deal. I just would like the team to avoid sending ~ 4 decent to good players for 1 hopefully great one. I guess I might be risk averse. I realize there are vulnerabilities to this logic. I’m just real tired of the Nelson Norman’s and Benji Gil’s manning SS in Arlington.
1/20/09 - The end of a error.
Good lord yes.
Do that deal in a split second. Don’t even think about it, just sign the papers and go home. JD is a hero, Liriano dominates, and we never think twice about it. That’s an easy one.
Now replace Salty with a dominating minor league pitcher (Feliz, Holland, Hurley, etc.) and I think you have something the Twins would more realistically be interested in. However, not unless you have to. To be honest though, I think if one of those guys were to go in (except maybe Hurley/Harrison), I would then call the deal off. But that’s just me.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
i'd definetly do it but
i doubt the twins would
Horrible trade for the Twins, makes no sense for them. Liriano is their upside.
by Brett Perryman on Oct 31, 2008 11:19 PM CDT reply actions
Meh...
I don’t see why the Twins would do that deal either.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
"Might"?
I don’t see how there’s any “might” to it. If the Twins were really willing to do that, in fact, you’d almost have to assume Baker must be hurt or something.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 1, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
the twins did garza for delmon young
in the hopes of acquiring offense; similar thought process could occur here but because blalock is closer to free agency the twins might be more reluctant.
The difference is...
…Young is young, cheap, and under team control for a long time.
Blalock is a 1 year rental.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 1, 2008 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
You and your platitudes, Adam
If young is young, might old be old?
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by inactive lsb user on Nov 2, 2008 4:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Wait...
would gay be happy or gay be gay?
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