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OT: Brand Spankin' New Politics Discussion

Since the last one has more than 600 comments and there's a debate tonight, I thought that it would be a good time to make a new one.

 

I have to say, the discussion so far has been surprising civil with the exception of whatever the hell is between Ben and Brettgartener.  I'm so proud of LSB I just don't know what to do.

So.  Debate tonight.  "Town Hall" format, which I think is stupid but they didn't ask for my opinion.  Anyway this format is supposed to favor McCain but I'm not sure anything's favoring him at the moment.

Um.  What else?  Oil...what did that end up closing at today?  We may see relatively cheap gas soon with the looming "Great Depression Pt. II" and the winter blends coming on line.  It's already below $3.00 a gallon in both E. Fort Worth and Oklahoma, which are very similar places.

Have a great evening.

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Obama is not a mama. McCain is a pain…

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Oct 7, 2008 6:23 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've been kind of interested...

in how the dynamic between the Obama-Ayers and McCain-Keating 5 is shaping up. The two aren’t really comparable at all, but Obama bringing up Keating may have enough resonance in relation to the current situation to put a really bad taste in people’s mouths.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 7, 2008 6:35 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Huh

You rolled your eyes when I mentioned Obama hitting back with the Keating 5. Now it resonates, make up your mind.

"Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor"

by enut21 on Oct 7, 2008 6:43 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I personally don't think...

the Keating 5 is relevant. McCain wasn’t a central player, and he’s spent, essentially, his whole political career trying to atone for what is, at most, a tangential role in that scandal, resulting in McCain-Feingold, which is not a very popular bill with McCain’s party. So, no, Keating is not something that resonates with me. As it was a banking scandal, it may resonate with the public, I don’t know.

Obviously, there are some important differences between McCain and the Keating 5 and Obama and Ayers. But it may be too subtle for the lay public to pick up on.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 7, 2008 6:53 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really don't see how the Ayers thing is relevant.

But if McCain’s going to start intimating that Obama is pro-terrorist or sympathetic towards terrorists, I don’t have a problem with Obama intimating that McCain is pro-crook or sympathetic to crooks.

by Athos on Oct 7, 2008 7:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They are also hitting the pro-terrorist thing with McCain

linking him to the right wing Death Squads supported by the US during the Reagan years.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 7, 2008 7:05 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think...

they’re intimating that Obama’s views are not as centrist as he claims, not that he’s pro-terrorist.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 7, 2008 7:12 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh

so that’s what she meant by saying Barack is paling around with terrorists – that he’s not so centrist. okay.

by SteveP on Oct 7, 2008 7:32 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He was invited to serve on a board by Ayres.

He launched his political career at Ayres house.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 7, 2008 7:39 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sure it can

His voting record however…

"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama

by DaheelzCM on Oct 7, 2008 7:44 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But

McCain isn’t relying on that. It’d be perfectly legitimate if he did, but instead we get tired, vague dots which we’re asked to connect.

by brettgardner on Oct 7, 2008 7:46 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fair enough.

But if you have the voting record to use in your argument that he’s not a centrist, what does Ayres add?

by Athos on Oct 7, 2008 7:46 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The boogie man factor?x c

"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama

by DaheelzCM on Oct 7, 2008 8:08 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would think

launching a political career at a admitted anti-war terrorist’s house does not indicate that you are a centrist. I think most would agree that someone that Ayers really approves of is not someone any of us would want. Obama can counter by saying that his political career now has a completely different meaning now than when he was moving to represent the south side of Chicago. Odds are, Ayers doesn’t really approve of most of Obama’s current positions.

Serving on a board with him really has no bearing on anything, though one can question the foundation that would have Ayers on his board.

I think it is a valid issue to be discussed (like the Keating scandal), but I also don’t think that it alone is a disqualifier by any means.

by JBImaknee on Oct 7, 2008 8:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Still a Tenuous Connection

I’ve never read anything credible that suggested they were so much as friends. Back in Chicago, Obama served on education boards with business leaders. Does that make him a conservative?

by Black Francis on Oct 7, 2008 7:57 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I found this amusing also

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Oct 7, 2008 6:48 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

So

he’s intimating the McCain-Palin will finish No. 2?

by robert_d_wilfong on Oct 7, 2008 6:56 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i lol'd

At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012

by trident on Oct 8, 2008 12:52 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thats a disgrace

but then again, so is tom hicks

In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home

by hinduplaya on Oct 7, 2008 7:18 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One Peter Principle Hall of Famer inducts another

Welcome to da club, doll.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Oct 7, 2008 7:29 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Heh

that got a chuckle out of me.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Oct 7, 2008 7:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"whatever the hell is between Ben and Brettgartener"

Sexual Tension.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 7, 2008 7:04 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There's only sexual tension between me and you.

C’mere and give me a kiss you sweet bitch.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 7, 2008 7:11 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No kissing for you

Just anal cream pies.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 3:06 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ew.

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Oct 8, 2008 9:53 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Economy...

I think it’s the cover-up of a conspiracy to unite the dollar to form a north american currency…or to join it with the euro in hopes that we will move towards a one-world currency.

I'd love for part of the "new look" to be a return to the red uniforms of the 1990s. - Ian Kinsler

by ortonius on Oct 7, 2008 7:42 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Uh, yeah

that’s it.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Oct 7, 2008 7:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If anything

the economic situation right now may cause the Euro to fall apart. Different countries each trying to shore up the same currency independently? England looks smart at the moment.

by JBImaknee on Oct 7, 2008 8:05 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Terrible spelling of my name.

But who has time for this silliness when collateral estoppel cases need reading?

Here’s my one prediction for the night, though: Both will be nonresponsive and conclusory, and no matter what, ben will declare victory for McCain because “it’s on a curve”.

He will also still be grotesque, incapable of logical thought, and devoid of meaningful personal relationships.

Guess that’s two predictions. Oh well!

(As a disclaimer, I’d like to add that I’m a completely oversensitive prick with no perspective and a history of lies and fruitless argumentation, not to mention my gigantic liberal streak.)

And I’m out.

by brettgardner on Oct 7, 2008 7:45 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let's

throw the kitchen sink John, or else you’re toast.

obamacrimes.com

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Oct 7, 2008 8:04 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that site was stupid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXWLfIgc0nA

by mchang4 on Oct 7, 2008 8:16 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

kidding me?

a 12 year old is for mccain?

by slash on Oct 7, 2008 8:33 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Finished

The cases.

McCain is coming off very well. Thought it was funny that Obama decried finger-pointing while he was literally pointing his finger at McCain.

by brettgardner on Oct 7, 2008 8:21 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just be glad he didn't refer to him as "Coolio" or "Flav".

McCain is really coming off like a cranky old man tonight.

by Athos on Oct 7, 2008 8:51 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And yet, he will still win

"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama

by DaheelzCM on Oct 8, 2008 7:58 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The debate, or the election?

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 8:03 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The election

"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama

by DaheelzCM on Oct 8, 2008 8:08 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bold prediction

but feasible. Black candidates often do better at polling than they do at the ballot box.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 8:28 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Seems like...

…he’s covering the “margin of error” on that one. Plus, registration of young voters has been so high it could very easily cancel out the racists.

Anyway, I think America’s changing. People aren’t as frightened by intelligent black men as they once were. They’re now afraid of just about everything else.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 8:43 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We will see what happens

when folks get in the privacy of the voting booth. It will be an interesting election. I really think Palin has energized the base of brainless Jesus Freaks that has been the core of the Republican party. I think until Palin, a lot of them were ready to stay at home.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 8:46 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Getting in the voting booth

That is another reason I think McCain has a chance. All the increased registration of young people and blacks is great but they still have to get their ass to the booth. It’s kinda like how I feel about the Rangers prospects…..it could happen but decades of history says it won’t and until it actually does I am going to remain skeptical.

"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama

by DaheelzCM on Oct 8, 2008 8:57 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yep

I’ve heard that story before about young folks showing up at the booth, not sure I’ve seen it.

The one thing Barack has on his side is the George Bush factor. I think there is a chance that the Democrats could put up Satan and win this election. Nothing like an unpopular war, and a country that is going into a direction eerily close to the Great Depression to get folks to the polls.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 9:06 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Religious Right Wing

They’ve been more instrumental in the GOP ground game than anything else. Palin was brought on too late to get a ground game rolling. Obama’s is probably the best organized in political history, which was partly a strategic decision and partly a result of having to fight it out with Clinton so long.

The question about whether people in the middle will pull the lever for a black man is perfectly valid, but it would have to happen to a startling degree for him to lose at this point.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 9:05 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You can't possibly believe that McCain is in a good position to win this election.

I simply refuse to believe that you are that blind.

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Oct 8, 2008 8:30 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

See Cahill's post right above yours.

"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama

by DaheelzCM on Oct 8, 2008 8:36 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thing is

He’s ahead among likely (past) voters.

You really have to look at the electoral map before you start declaring a McCain victory. It’s not close right now.

by brettgardner on Oct 8, 2008 9:37 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly.

My point was not to say that McCain can’t win. My point was that, as of right now, there are few-to-no indicators that he will.

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Oct 8, 2008 10:01 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My money

is still on a change of party if the Market keeps melting down. Economics trumps race, and a full on economic meltdown has to help the party out of power.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 10, 2008 6:48 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One of my friends is annoyed

that Michelle Obama is in the audience “taking up a seat that could be for another undecided voter.” I haven’t noticed her, I guess. But I really don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Is it?

-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"Football is like having a fling once a week. Baseball is a relationship." - oc

by baseballismyboyfriend on Oct 7, 2008 8:54 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeesh.

That seems like a pretty silly thing to get annoyed about.

Everybody’s watching this on TV, after all.

by brettgardner on Oct 7, 2008 8:56 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think so.

If they really wanted another seat or two, the organizers would just pull and extra chair in there. Is Cindy there too?

by Fooster7 on Oct 7, 2008 8:56 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I haven't noticed her

Then again, I’m not really sure what she looks like.

-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"Football is like having a fling once a week. Baseball is a relationship." - oc

by baseballismyboyfriend on Oct 7, 2008 8:59 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whoa

Sorry, never put a picture up before.

by Fooster7 on Oct 7, 2008 9:02 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

now thats too mean

i mean shes not that great but i’m pretty sure someone could do worse than her

In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home

by hinduplaya on Oct 7, 2008 9:17 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I kid

Yes, I’m sure there are much, much worse.

by Fooster7 on Oct 7, 2008 9:30 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Aha

I saw her there at the end. So she was there…but I guess she’s allowed to take up a seat.

-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"Football is like having a fling once a week. Baseball is a relationship." - oc

by baseballismyboyfriend on Oct 7, 2008 9:36 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And

Cindy McCain was there as well.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Oct 8, 2008 12:15 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anyone else seeing the

CNN squiggly line thing? Its like all the women (orange line) accidentally turned it to the + knob by accident and kept it there.

by Fooster7 on Oct 7, 2008 9:00 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's a terrific question, Katie.

Terrific.

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Oct 7, 2008 9:09 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It seems to me (and I may be wrong)...

…but McCain’s biggest problem is that he hasn’t been able to land a big hit on Obama. It’s been jab-jab-jab, but no haymaker. And Obama’s been landing his own shots, too.

McCain needs a big one.

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Oct 7, 2008 9:14 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like how there are people

that make fun of Obama’s pronounciation of Pakistan, when it is actually a more accurate one.

Not that anybody here has mentioned it, but on other places they have.

by cashman on Oct 7, 2008 9:15 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Far more accurate.

What kind of boob would make fun of that?

by brettgardner on Oct 7, 2008 9:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

from another forum

“He sure likes talking about Pakeestaan and Taullybon.”

by cashman on Oct 7, 2008 9:47 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's better than those

who say “nukular” instead of “nuclear”

-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"Football is like having a fling once a week. Baseball is a relationship." - oc

by baseballismyboyfriend on Oct 7, 2008 9:54 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So if Obama or his wife

say something like “bofe” instead of “both” or “axed” instead of “asked” are we allowed to comment?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 10:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are you saying

That mispronouncing “nuclear” or “Pakistan” is a characteristic of stereotypical “white” speech?

I’m not getting it.

by brettgardner on Oct 8, 2008 10:58 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not at all.

Are you saying black people are dumb for saying “bofe” or “axed” ?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 11:07 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Huh?

Where or how did I suggest that?

As a general rule, I tend to think less of adults who mispronounce words in their native language. Your examples are more dialect than mispronunciation, though.

I’m not getting your racial connections here at all. Where’d any of this come from?

by brettgardner on Oct 8, 2008 11:10 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Above

you said “Dumb people are dumb people.”

Bush & Palin get nailed for how they pronounce nuclear but black people get a pass?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 11:12 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Again, though

I’m not seeing how it’s the same thing at all. One’s dialect and one’s just a slip of the tongue.

And have either Obama or his wife done anything like that?

Why did you have to insert some silly racial sentiment on the issue? If Obama had mispronounced “nuclear” it would be just as dumb.

by brettgardner on Oct 8, 2008 11:17 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So screwing up the pronounciation of

“nuclear” is dumb but “bofe” and “axed” are okay to use?

Just checking.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 11:21 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nope

no President of the United states should be caught dead pronouncing basic words like those, incorrectly.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 11:24 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is a retarded debate.

It’s the equivalent of saying that a Bostonian is “stupid” for pronouncing “rather” like “raw-tha” and then equating that to a guy who just can’t read a word correctly.

They’re not the same. Bizarrely bringing race into it doesn’t make your point for you; rather, it diminishes it.

by brettgardner on Oct 8, 2008 11:28 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think they are equally retarded

and we should hold national candidates to a high level of speech, since they represent our country.

Certainly folks should make fun of Palin dropping her Gs, Bush saying nuculer, and Obama if he says bofe or axed.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 11:23 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thank you.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 11:32 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Up to you.

Each critic sets his own standards. If you feel that a person’s dialect makes them is fair game, then have at it. Nobody has to get a pass. That others are less critical is their business.

by Athos on Oct 8, 2008 12:22 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

McCain is visibly frustrated.

He’s got 12 minutes to throw — and land — a haymaker.

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Oct 7, 2008 9:19 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's over.

The question now, LSB:

GIVE THE SCORE OF THIS DEBATE AS IF IT WERE A BASEBALL GAME.

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Oct 7, 2008 9:40 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2-2

before the rainout

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Oct 7, 2008 9:41 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

7-6, Obama

Boring, not quite high-scoring but no thrilling pitchers’ duel, either.

by Black Francis on Oct 7, 2008 10:00 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

All of our views on baseball reality are skewed. That’s why our heads explode when a Rangers pitcher throws a shutout.

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Oct 7, 2008 11:09 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well Tom Hicks must be the owner

because it looks like my money is leaving my pocket with nothing of value coming back in return

by bstair on Oct 7, 2008 11:59 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don't think there is a clear winner in this debate

maybe the edge goes to mccain.

i felt the first debate was a draw to slight edge to obama.

biden obviously beat palin.

mccain needed to win this decisively.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Oct 7, 2008 9:40 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that debate sucked

the questions sucked, tom brokow cherrypicking the questions sucked…if they’re going to do a townhall format, actually DO a freaking townhall format and let the people ask their questions….geez, that was boring and repetitive…we already knew everything that each candidate said…

uberlameness by brokow.

posthocergopropterhoc

by Longhorn on Oct 7, 2008 9:47 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+700 billion

which seems to be the most popular figure in politics right now

by bstair on Oct 8, 2008 12:00 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

bombombombomb

iran.

does mccain not realize that the US military has been bombing pakistan?

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Oct 7, 2008 9:51 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The most brilliant thing Drudge has ever written.

And he only needed one word.

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Oct 7, 2008 9:59 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Weirdest, most uncomfortable debate ever

For once I agree with Longhorn. I watched the debate with three friends: two Democrats and a Republican. We were all baffled at the format. There was no time to answer anything. No way to respond. We also came to the conclusion that those people were reading the questions for the first time.

In any event, both candidates did an okay job given the restraints. McCain needs to do more than Obama, obviously, and I don’t think he did that.

by Black Francis on Oct 7, 2008 9:57 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wonder what kind of play...

Obama’s “intervention” answer is going to get, vis a vis Iraq.

The other thing is that there’s really not a whole lot of difference between these guys. I mean they’re both elbowing each other out of the way trying to slob the middle class’ knob.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 7, 2008 11:16 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is it

Really necessary to say “vis a vis”?

by brettgardner on Oct 7, 2008 11:18 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh hell.

Here we go again.

/gets popcorn ready

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Oct 7, 2008 11:22 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It won't get any comments from me.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 7, 2008 11:23 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Aww.

/puts popcorn away

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Oct 7, 2008 11:24 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nah.

That’s all. I just think it’s a silly expression. “Regarding” works just fine.

by brettgardner on Oct 7, 2008 11:24 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

vis a vis your post.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Oct 7, 2008 11:48 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Make-Beleive Maverick

Ran across this in Rolling Stone. It’s extremely slanted but an interesting read if, for nothing else, stuff like this:

“He’s going to be Bush on steroids,” says Johns, the retired brigadier general who has known McCain since their days at the National War College. “His hawkish views now are very dangerous. He puts military at the top of foreign policy rather than diplomacy, just like George Bush does. He and other neoconservatives are dedicated to converting the world to democracy and free markets, and they want to do it through the barrel of a gun.”

and this:

During his 1992 campaign, at the end of a long day, McCain’s wife, Cindy, mussed his receding hair and needled him playfully that he was “getting a little thin up there.” McCain reportedly blew his top, cutting his wife down with the kind of language that had gotten him hauled into court as a high schooler: “At least I don’t plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c**t.”

Just seems like some of this stuff about McCain is so damning that it can’t possibly be legit.

by robert_d_wilfong on Oct 8, 2008 12:01 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Conspiracy

of the Right Wing MSM.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 8:46 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is why nothing has been done to free us from foreign oil over the last eight years.

Recipient of the 2008 "The Iron Man" award from scottnak of Halos Heaven!

by 44FAN on Oct 8, 2008 12:34 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It was clear who the evil one was and who the good one was in tonight's debate:

Recipient of the 2008 "The Iron Man" award from scottnak of Halos Heaven!

by 44FAN on Oct 8, 2008 12:41 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

evil, really?...

i get really of the whole christian idea of “good and evil”… but then again then christian nature is to over simplify everything for easy understanding…

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Oct 8, 2008 9:57 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Christian

Bale was in a different Batman movie.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Oct 8, 2008 1:12 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

[pump fake]

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Oct 8, 2008 3:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're reading far too much in to it.

Recipient of the 2008 "The Iron Man" award from scottnak of Halos Heaven!

by 44FAN on Oct 9, 2008 2:57 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hahah

calamity of circumstances…
i was at work so the picture didn’t actually pop up…
i thought i read your name as 4Him…

oh well.

"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...

by ivysafety39 on Oct 10, 2008 3:32 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Considering Obama's lead

that has to be a win for him. Any debate that’s not a clear win for McCain is a loss. Since folks were comparing it to a baseball game, it looks to me like a 0-0 inning, and we are getting closer to the 9th.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 3:21 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Very unimpressed with McCain

last night. No major gaffes but he treated this debate like he was leading by 3-5% instead of the other way around.

Obama largely won because McCain didn’t move the ball.

The September / October Surprises of Shearson Lehman going bankrupt and the stock market tanking may be too much to overcome but at least Palin had the ability to stop the bleeding last week.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 9:38 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's what she was doing?

Sure…

The reality is pretty simple: the Republicans had a very slim chance to win this election no matter who the candidate was, but when Obama started gaining real momentum, it was simply a blunder to elect McCain. He’s the right guy at the wrong time, and I feel bad for him because he would have obviously been a far superior President to Bush. Conservatives should rejoice though, I think, because a McCain win dilutes the purity, whereas an Obama win could produce a much more solid candidate in 4 years.

by brettgardner on Oct 8, 2008 9:50 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't blame Palin for anything

that has gone wrong. I was worried about how she would do in the debate but she came thru like a champ.

The uncertainty of the economy and McCain’s inablity to move the ball himself have been the problem.

This may be a good and necessary catharsis for the GOP. McCain is a genuine hero but we need to recognize that this country is trending away from old white guys and we need to quit nominating them. The selection of Palin was genius because it was thinking out of the box but McCain’s own campaign staff have not utilized her as effective as they could have and now it’s getting late, possibly too late.

The light left on for Republicans is that all of us know Democrats are capable of incredible stupidity and more than once have fumbled the ball on the one yard line.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 10:02 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Josey

Surely you can admit that everybody’s stupid. Both parties are full of complete dolts and everybody commits blunders. The terrible Richardson campaign had us sleeping under tables. When I talked to somebody from the Thompson camp, he said “Wow, you guys have tables?”

I suppose I can’t do anything to change what I think is misguided praise from you regarding Palin, but I do agree that symbolism can have its place. Picking a woman is fine, but just make sure you pick the right one. I have a hard time believing anyone would be comfortable with Palin as President. As much as one may dislike Obama’s policies or lack of experience, the fact that he can at least articulate those policies and positions with a nuanced mind assuages a lot of fear, I think.

by brettgardner on Oct 8, 2008 10:13 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Palin articulated on policies and positions

with a very nuanced mind in the debate. I think her most appealing quality to Repubs is that the lady can take a punch (and hit back harder) plus she has the priceless political charisma of unifying a base. Reagan really wasn’t that bright but his political charisma was off the charts and very appealing to Dems on the fence.

Palin’s a little too far to the right for me but I’m not the type of person who would kick Gisele Buschen out of bed for being a bad cook.

I’ve also seen Obama struggle greatly without a teleprompter. I can’t stand Joe Biden personally but he is infinitely more qualified to be POTUS than somebody whose greatest achievement was being a “community organizer.”

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 10:30 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess we watched

A very different VP debate. I saw Palin refuse to answer questions that didn’t fit into the demeaning narrative somebody else planned out.

I’m not here to say that Obama/Biden is the greatest ticket in history, but how anyone could defend Palin is beyond me.

by brettgardner on Oct 8, 2008 10:33 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Obama did the same

freaking thing last night by refusing to answer questions that didn’t fit into the narrative he wanted to discuss but Brokaw (from the uber liberal NBC network) didn’t call him on it.

Almost every politician does that in a debate.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 10:37 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I didn't see much

But didn’t McCain do the exact same thing? That’s why just about everyone saw the debate last night as pointless and repetitive.

I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.

by TheBZA on Oct 8, 2008 10:38 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Regarding Obama

I agree that he was rather nonresponsive at times, but he didn’t explicitly refuse to answer a question like Palin.

Don’t give Brokaw the credit for having the ability to call anyone on anything. He sucks, and he’s possibly the worst moderator I’ve ever seen.

by brettgardner on Oct 8, 2008 10:39 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've often thought, that when a politician goes off topic

they ought to cut their mike and go to the other candidate.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 10:44 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At first there would, for sure.

However, since Politicians are addicted to being heard, they would adapt.

The flaw is that since the candidates get to set debate rules, they’d never agree to it.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 10:53 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But she played a mean flute

in the Talent part of the debate.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 10:37 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, she didn't.

Her statements were long on generalities and utterly devoid of specifics. She dodged questions she was clearly not prepared to answer and talked about something else instead.

And what is with the disdain you right wingers have for being a community organizer? Do you really find the idea of somebody working to help the disadvantaged that distasteful? And as respectable as such work is, I think Obama deserves a little credit for being in a state legislature and being a United States Senator. But what is really aggravating to so many on the right is that, “feather in the cap” achievements aside (which tilt heavily towards Obama, FWIW), Obama is much, much, much more intelligent and articulate than Palin. Palin is, sadly, all show and no substance.

by Athos on Oct 8, 2008 12:29 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Obama's service

The only problem I have with giving Obama credit for being a state and United States senator is the amount of time he spent campaigning for higher offices while serving. As a state senator he ran for other offices twice during his 7 years and was a US senator for a about a year before he started running for President. It’s not a huge deal but it rubs me the wrong way a little bit.

On the bright side, he won’t be running for any higher office if he wins this election.

"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama

by DaheelzCM on Oct 8, 2008 12:44 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Palin

18 months as governor and now she’s running for a (much) higher office.

And prior to that, she was the mayor of a town half the size of Hereford.

by robert_d_wilfong on Oct 8, 2008 1:13 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nothing wrong with being a

“community organizer” but it doesn’t compare to being the guvnah of a state like Alaska and any disdain you heard from the right wing happened when Olberman & Company started asking about Palin’s qualifications.

Last Thursday’s VP debate had better ratings than last night’s Presidential debate.

http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/10/second-debate-r.html

I don’t think people were tuning in to see Joe Biden’s bad haircut.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 2:20 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The argument could be made

that Jimmy Carter was the most intelligent POTUS this country has had in the last 100 years yet during that time he was undoubtedly one of the worst ever to occupy the office.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 2:25 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bush has been

Much, much worse than Carter has ever dreamed of being.

Carter gets killed because the Fed at the time had the balls to jack up interest rates to kill inflation left to him by LBJ and Nixon and Ford.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 2:35 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carter was beyond incompetent which is why

he was thrown out on his ass after one term. This country felt awful about itself at the end of the 70’s, much worse than it did today.

However you feel about Bush, he had enough cred with the voting public to get elected twice.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 2:39 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He also

1) Started a War based on complete Disinformation.
2) Was in charge when the biggest financial Meltdown since the Depression took place
3) Ran the National Debt over $10 Trillion dollars, and may have doubled the Debt by the time he leaves office.
4) Was at the helm when the worst terrorist attacks took place, and still hasn’t brough the perpetrators to justice.
5) Legalized Torture
6) Opened up concentration camps offshore, and kidnapped people from around the world to fly them there.

Just because low grade morons like yourself voted for him for a 2nd term, doesn’t mean he was good.

Compared to Bush, Carter was Thomas Freaking Jefferson.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 2:48 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jimmy Carter was easily a bottom 5

POTUS and the worst of my lifetime (LBJ included).

Weak, impotent, incompetent, failed leader, laughingstock, four years and done, take your choice and they all fit the presidency of James Earl Carter.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 3:21 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yet

compared to Jr. Bush, he looks like Thomas Freaking Jefferson.

Whoever gets elected, McCain or Obama, will have their hands full getting us out of the Ditch Bush ran us into.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 3:23 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Glad you

agree Carter was a bottom 5 POTUS and no, compared to Bush he is not Thomas Freaking Jefferson..

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 3:29 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I love it

He gives you facts to support his argument.

You respond with “I am rubber, you are glue.”

What a joke.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Oct 8, 2008 3:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

BT, he went to the

mud pit with his “low grade moron” comment so I’m not going to engage.

I could kick his ass up and down the block for as long as I wanted but I’ve taken the high road.

Sorry to disappoint.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 3:49 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nah you couldn't

because you are, in fact, a moron. You prove it daily.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 3:50 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Keep your head up,

little man.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Oct 8, 2008 3:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lame last word.

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Oct 8, 2008 5:31 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're just a more verbose

version of Longhorn.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Oct 8, 2008 7:41 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Legitimately ... once.

Remember, more people wanted Gore than W. And W had the fortune of running against the most un-inspiring flop of a candidate since Michael Dukakis in John Kerry—and still almost got whipped. Further, history shows that voters tend to not oust incumbents during time of war.

Carter was not a good president, by any stretch of the imagination, but nor was he a bigger flop than the Right Wing Messiah has been.

by Athos on Oct 8, 2008 2:51 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, they weren't.

They tuned in to see if Palin was really as air-headed as her interviews with Kouric indicated. It would seem that most had their suspicions confirmed.

by Athos on Oct 8, 2008 2:46 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hear someone singing

It is over for McCain. It has been since the focus of the campaign went to the economy. His response (or lack of) was terrible. Obama is where he is today due to his anti-war stance. He looks good. Sounds good. But talk is cheap. Get ready for a Pelosi-Reid-Obama White House and New Deal II.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Oct 8, 2008 9:43 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It could be worse than Pelosi Reid Obama

It could be Bush/Delay/Cheney.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 9:48 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess

I don’t understand this theory you have. Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter and Clinton all had a completely Democratic Congress at points. Why is an Obama Presidency going to necessarily lead to another New Deal?

by brettgardner on Oct 8, 2008 9:58 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the

Dems are going to push for national healthcare reform. Another entitlement program that can’t be funded.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Oct 8, 2008 10:46 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I fail

To see how it is an entitlement program, since it is premised, at least superficially, on employers providing health care to employees.

Now, you can argue that because of price controls, the Obama plan could eventually edge out private companies, and that would be a legitimate criticism, I think, but to say that it is an entitlement in the same way Social Security is just isn’t very accurate to me.

by brettgardner on Oct 8, 2008 10:52 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the #1 reason we will end up with national healthcare

is because companies are sick of carrying it on their balance sheets, and want to get out from under it as soon as possible. I know the Automakers would be thrilled to dump their healthcare costs.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 10:55 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe you're right.

It seems people are getting tired of the carrot-and-stick health insurance policy between the government and employers, and probably nobody more so than employers.

To crib a line from Gerson, maybe the answer is to make private health insurance an entitlement, though I can think of another million problems with that.

by brettgardner on Oct 8, 2008 11:02 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But the No. 1 reason we won't

is because the insurance carriers have lots of money to throw at candidates.

There’s a reason why Obama’s healthcare plan is to “keep your employer-provider coverage.” McCain’s $5,000 tax credit, does even more for the industry because people won’t get the credit unless they buy it.

I just can’t see the industry letting it happen.

by robert_d_wilfong on Oct 8, 2008 11:10 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

John McCain

Is doing everything he can to get me to not vote for him by saying he will buy up bad mortgages to refinance them for people. This sort of populist gibberish is John Edwards-esque, and is despicable say-what-they-want-to-hear politics. That isn’t leadership, that is pandering.

I personally feel like Obama is far too dangerously naive to be President, so McCain goes and picks Palin, who is equally so. But I’d rather have a naive VP than a naive Pres, so I could deal with it.

I think Obama’s spending plans are over-the-top and unnecessary – but at least he pays for them and recognizes that a ballooning deficit is bad. McCain argues for cutting corporate taxes – something I agree with – but he cannot make a coherent argument in favor of it. Do we really want a man who can’t come up with “Cutting corporate taxes will create jobs and ultimately raise revenue” as an argument?

Obama’s Iraq war stance is too black and white – an irony coming from a man whose positions are typically nuanced, whereas I can’t help but think he’ll fail to stand up to Iran. But McCain’s foreign policy is too extreme the other way, and

Finally, neither McCain nor Obama has shown ANY leadership on the economic crisis. Obama has chosen to play it safe and make phone calls – yeah, way to step up in a crisis that will no doubt dominate your first term. And McCain, for all his bluster about returning to Washington, did nothing to stop the flow of pork that he is so adamant about stopping. Hypocrite. Pointing fingers – which is pretty much all either has done – is not leadership. I can’t help but think that either Hillary or Rudy would have shown far more charisma and leadership in the last few weeks than either of these guys.

I’m disgusted by both of these options and sad about the prospects of this country.

by JBImaknee on Oct 8, 2008 12:19 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you

summed up my feeling also. Any year of voting for the least of two evils.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Oct 8, 2008 12:25 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And yet, the candidates in 2008 are both superior to those of ...

2004. That was the ultimate hold-your-nose and push a button election.

by Athos on Oct 8, 2008 12:35 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Its becoming a bad trend

isn’t it?

What happened to the Old Bush/Clinton/Perot days? Even the nutty independent Perot would probably have been a better President than any of these guys in the last few elections

by JBImaknee on Oct 8, 2008 12:49 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly

That’s what I keep telling my wife. No matter what, we’ll have better leadership than we’ve had these last 8 sorry years.

And JB, I disagree with your premise about Rudy and Hillary. I think we’d see more pandering not less from those two.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Oct 8, 2008 4:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe

I don’t know if I’ve ever heard anything more pandering than McCain’s buy up mortgages nonsense. That is the definition of “vote for me and I’ll let you keep your house” pandering.

by JBImaknee on Oct 8, 2008 4:47 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah...

pretty ridiculous.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 8, 2008 4:59 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WHat about Obama's

“95% of Americans will get a tax cut”? 95% of Americans don’t pay taxes.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Oct 8, 2008 5:12 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice Straw Man

If he had said “95% of Americans” maybe you’d have an argument.

He said “95% of WORKING Americans.”

95% of all Americans as you point out doesn’t make any sense.

R

by Requiem on Oct 8, 2008 6:07 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well...

95% of WORKING Americans don’t pay taxes.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Oct 8, 2008 6:20 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would rather be

gripping at straws and not grasping for straws. :) I don’t see why McCain is being bashed for pandering to the electorate. All politicians do it. What do you think Obama’s tax redistribution plan is?

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Oct 8, 2008 9:58 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Meh, whatever

Both of their plans are just a ploy to get more votes.
Ben and JBImakness were talking about McCain’s mortgage purchasing and then you changed the subject to Obama’s tax cut plans. I just don’t understand what made you do that.

by hiafex on Oct 8, 2008 10:05 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Okay
What do you think Obama’s tax redistribution plan is?

Sound policy?

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 10:31 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't like increasing marginal rates...

on high income earners because they generally have a lot more ability to cut back on their realized income.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 8, 2008 10:33 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hi

Mr. & Mrs. Johnson,

Here is you $250 tax rebate. Mr. Johnson, I am sorry to hear that you got laid off. Maybe you will be able to find another job next week.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Oct 8, 2008 10:37 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Raising Taxes...

…on individuals isn’t the same as raising taxes on businesses. All classes will do better when and if the middle class ever has money to spend again. In a recession I obviously wouldn’t favor any kind of business tax increase.

And while it’s definitely true that businesses and wealthy people can jive their numbers, I would think they’re already doing so no matter what the rate is.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 10:42 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No jiving to it.

Municipals give you tax free income. Even with the AMT, there are other ways to handle it.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 8, 2008 10:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And I'm sure...

..they’re already handling it. My point was that no matter what the rate is, these people (along with everyone else with a good accountant) already have incentive to pursue strategies that will result in them paying as few taxes as possible.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 11:17 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But...

higher marginal rates aren’t going to change that. I would argue that higher marginal rates will just push them towards municipals and other methods for decreasing taxable income. That doesn’t help increase tax revenue, so why do it?

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 8, 2008 11:28 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ok

Well I think as long as you have enough money to know what to do with it, you’re already going to decrease your tax liability independent of the rate. It simply doesn’t matter what the rate is, these people are already doing everything they can to pay the lowest tax possible. They don’t need any pushing.

by Black Francis on Oct 9, 2008 12:00 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So...

let’s tax those greedy fuckers who make over $500k a year at 70%. They’ll stop realizing $500k a year in income, and, hell, they pay most of the taxes, but it’ll sure teach those bastards a lesson.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 9, 2008 12:05 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That...

…is not what I’m suggesting.

by Black Francis on Oct 9, 2008 12:11 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think...

extremely progressive tax systems are of the devil.

And I think taxing corporations is of something that’s worse than the devil in its personification of evil.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 9, 2008 12:20 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Defense Contractors

As someone who works for a defense contractor, I am convinced that if McCain is elected I will lose my job. In both Presidential debates, he highlighted his desire to cut spending on defense contracts. I work at Lockheed Martin and I’m willing to bet a President McCain will seek to cancel the F-35 contract to save money. He’s already pressured the department of defense to outsource plane building to the European subsidized EADS. Basically, voting for McCain would be voting for my own lay off. Please God, for the sake of my family, let Obama win on November 4th.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Oct 8, 2008 12:29 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't you

think Obama will end up cutting military spending also? I think the F-35 will be one of the first programs to get cut or reduced.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Oct 8, 2008 12:45 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wait, What??

Without doing the research, I’d have to think your assessment is completely wrong. I’m not sure if Obama is planning on cutting any military spending other than in Iraq, but I have to think McCain is much more likely than Obama to increase defense spending or keep it at its current level. If I’m not mistaken, Airbus is one of McCain’s biggest contributors, so naturally he supports giving them another big contract over their biggest competitor.

by jcir454 on Oct 8, 2008 12:47 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Did you watch the Debate?

McCain said he would institute a spending freeze except for essential things like military spending (for things like Iraq not defense contractors) and then said he fought to curb defense contractor spending siting the EADS contract I linked to as proof. If the government doesn’t have money to spend, all government contractors will have to cut back (i.e. layoff employees).

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by DerekSTheRed on Oct 8, 2008 12:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I did not watch the second debate

I know he mentioned a spending freeze on everything non-military in the first debate, however I assumed defense contracts would fall under military spending. Having no evidence to prove otherwise, I’ll concede the point.

by jcir454 on Oct 8, 2008 1:05 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Debate Transcript

I first proposed a long time ago that we would have to examine every agency and every bureaucracy of government. And we’re going to have to eliminate those that aren’t working.


I know a lot of them that aren’t working. One of them is in defense spending, because I’ve taken on some of the defense contractors. I saved the taxpayers $6.8 billion in a deal for an Air Force tanker that was done in a corrupt fashion.


I believe that we have to eliminate the earmarks. And sometimes those projects, not — not the overhead projector that Sen. Obama asked for, but some of them that are really good projects, will have — will have to be eliminated, as well.


And they’ll have to undergo the same scrutiny that all projects should in competition with others.


So we’re going to have to tell the American people that spending is going to have to be cut in America. And I recommend a spending freeze that — except for defense, Veterans Affairs, and some other vital programs, we’ll just have to have across-the-board freeze.

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by DerekSTheRed on Oct 8, 2008 1:01 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Blah, Blah Blah

we are gonna cut Waste Fraud, and Abuse! The rallying cry of every politician who ever took office, then went on to sign up for even higher levels of spending.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 1:15 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't dispute this

Government spending can be good for the economy, especially when it’s invested in the works for the public good. Government spending has been good for my own personal economy. The problem is that what the government spends money on is determined by the seniority of certain members of the Congress (hello Ted Stevens) not on measures it really needs to spend money on. An even bigger problem is spending when you don’t have the money. If the choice is Tax and Spend vs. Borrow and Spend (as it is now), the clear choice is Tax and Spend.

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by DerekSTheRed on Oct 8, 2008 1:24 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Spending freeze aside...

Factcheck has already picked apart this blurb from McCain in their analysis of both debates (McCain mentioned it in both debates).

McCain fought to kill the $6.8 billion contract to Boeing, but as Factcheck mentions, it may have been in support of one of his campaign contributors, EADS/Airbus, as much as anything else.

by jcir454 on Oct 8, 2008 1:28 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So, in the tank to foreign companies

why does the Right Wing MSM not report this?

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 1:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are companies,

foreign or domestic, allowed to make political contributions?

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Oct 8, 2008 2:02 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's just not right.

Only US citizens eligible to vote should be allowed to make political contributions. IMHO.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Oct 8, 2008 3:33 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Even if it was made "illegal"

It wouldn’t stop, the companies would just funnel the money through individuals rather than from the corporation itself.

by venturafearsnolan on Oct 8, 2008 4:01 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They do this in Texas already

with lobbyists. The firms can’t pay, they do it in their employees names.

by corbsclinton on Oct 8, 2008 4:04 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

dooh

actually that is false, the reason why they do it in their employee’s name is to not piss off the other parties candidate

by corbsclinton on Oct 8, 2008 4:06 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes

and the link I provided I originally got from factcheck.org. So he ships those jobs overseas and will cancel the ones that are here. This was the point I was making. My job depends on McCain not getting elected.

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by DerekSTheRed on Oct 8, 2008 2:25 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No kidding

Not that most of his spending freeze shit would ever make through Congress. He’s have a hard time “reaching across the aisle” on that one.

But he has no intentions to push for a freeze. It’s pandering — his goal with this is to resonate with families who DO have to freeze their spending.

However, no matter who’s President, some things will have to be cut. The JSF is one that could go, seeing as we’re already light years ahead of everyone else in terms of air superiority. That’s something that’s developed and can be put in the can. If we have to fight a big war we can start cranking them out at that time. So it’s undoubtedly something that COULD be cut, but is that what we want to do right now? Lots of jobs right there, and by all accounts it’s a hell of a warplane.

In the coming years we’re going to be running bigger than ever deficits, which is just what happens when an economy tanks. If spending weren’t so out of control for most of the last thirty years it wouldn’t hurt nearly as bad it. I just hope we’re not going to have to carry our spending money around in wheelbarrows before it’s over.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 3:21 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Migs

Without the JSF, we’re not in the lead in terms of air superiority. Russian Migs out perform most anything we got right now. The F-22 is close but it’s not meant to be an air to air fighter like the F-35. We also sell F-16s to other countries (with less capabilities obviously) so the gap between the US and other countries is not that great.

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by DerekSTheRed on Oct 8, 2008 3:36 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I should note that my opinion on the Russion MiGs is my own. Others have the opinion that the F-22 is more than capable to take on the latest MiGs. To me the HUD on the latest MiGs put them over the top until the F-35 goes into mass use.

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by DerekSTheRed on Oct 8, 2008 3:45 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

History has proven

that US technology and training has been far superior than anything Russia has produced.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Oct 8, 2008 3:48 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wouldn't underestimate them

I do think we have a lot more really good pilots and probably better training (just based on what I’ve read because I don’t shit about flying airplanes), but I would think their best pilots probably stack up with our best pilots. And they’re not bad at producing hardware at all. We can just produce more of it.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 4:12 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

During the early...

Soviet years, the Soviets stressed quantity over quality. The T-72, for instance, can not trade blows with the M-1A1, but they made a shitload of them. More modern Soviet/Russian equipment is better.

However, and this is the real crux of the matter, to really have a superior fighting force, you need continual training and live fire exercises. That’s the problem that the Russians have… they can’t afford to have their pilots, etc., continually flying, they can’t afford to have their tankers continually loading and firing live rounds, etc.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 8, 2008 4:17 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wrong

The AK-47 is the preferred rifle because of its simplicity and reliability, their tanks and helicopters were superior to the US well into the ’90’s, and they reached space first. The Russians couldn’t run an economy, and that is why we defeated them.

1/20/09 - The end of a error.

by Parman on Oct 9, 2008 2:50 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Israeli F-16s

Are better than our own in a lot of peoples’ opinions. But we’re not going to be selling those things to a country we’re likely to be fighting. When I talked about air superiority I was talking about equipment that would be in the inventory of hostile countries.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 4:14 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You could also

say that about employees that work for small business owners that make over 200k a year and business owners that are barley breaking even and will now have to supply health insurance IF Obama is elected.

by corbsclinton on Oct 8, 2008 4:12 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My familiy's business fits into that category

We won’t be negatively impacted by it, although others may be. I think that long term it’s still the best solution as premiums SHOULD go down. If people can get preventative care and not have to deal with all the bullshit pertaining to pre-existing conditions that would be awesome. No matter what the cost, it’s time to do something about this problem. People are literally dying because our health care system.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 4:20 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm a defense contractor, too.

I think the big risk with McCain, professionally speaking, is that he will have our military forward deployed to its max his entire term in office, which will obviously cost A LOT of money. This fact, of course, will lead to a shortage of funding for other military programs.

If we’d stop hemorraghing money on Iraq, our jobs would be alot safer.

Good luck to you, man. I don’t have to woryy about tomahawks being outsourced, but I don’t think any job is really safe these days.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Oct 8, 2008 4:18 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jobs?

Hell, our country would be a lot safer.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 4:27 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Soooooooooooooooooooo...

How many electoral votes will Obama end up with?

I’m going to guess 330’s.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 3:35 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

269

Granted, I say that because I think its an amusing scenario to contemplate.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 3:43 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

only if

McCain were to win the popular vote

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Oct 8, 2008 3:45 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The popular vote

has nothin to do with nothin in that scenario.

In case of a tie, The House picks the President, and the Senate votes for the VP.

If Lieberman switched sides in the Senate, we could have Obama/Palin.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 3:53 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know.

On second thought it would suck the hear the Republicans whining for 4 years about having a President win the popular vote but not the White House. Like that has ever happened. :(

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Oct 8, 2008 3:58 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

269 would be interesting. I think Obama gets at least 300, probably 349.

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by DerekSTheRed on Oct 8, 2008 3:46 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

538

Says if the election were held today, he’d have 347. His models expect the race to tighten a bit, but with all this crazy shit going on nobody really has any idea. I could see scenarios where he just keeps on picking up votes as the economy worsens and people look for leadership in that arena, which may put him somewhere between 350 and 400. Then again, you have the race factor described above. Who knows, but I’m pretty confident in a victory.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 4:09 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This should have been Adam's quiz for who gets the book.

I’ll say ~290. I think the race tightens considerably, but Obama pulls ahead by snagging the obvious states, plus something like Virginia and Ohio.

I don’t fully buy 538’s analysis at this point. Up until recently, their bias hasn’t shown up, but it is there now I think. It isn’t a critique – I think anyone who is that immersed is going to be biased somewhat – but I’m having trouble seeing how a race where the tracking polls are so incredibly volatile between them can be as convincing as he is making it out to be (yes, I know the state polls are consistent with this). One real possibility is that the strength of his polls are weighted (mostly) by how accurately they projected the Democrat primaries. That means that he’s selecting for those that best hit the Democrat demographics – not necessarily everyone.

Basically, I think its obvious Obama is ahead, but I’m not thinking the 347/191 split is realistic.

by JBImaknee on Oct 8, 2008 5:16 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

(and by bias)

I am talking more about Silver’s interpretation of the results rather than the results. The “why Obama may win Georgia” and the perennial “young vote is underrepresented in the polls” posts are not the high quality Silver stuff I’ve seen there.

by JBImaknee on Oct 8, 2008 5:22 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Young vote

I think he’s right about that, though. I’m old enough to have been voting for a while and I’ve never once been polled about anything. That’s because for years I’ve had nothing but a cell phone, and that’s the way it would still be if I didn’t need a fax at home. None of my friends have ever been polled either.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 5:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reminds me of the old anecdote about the 1968 election

when some Hollywood person (I don’t remember who) said “I don’t know how Nixon won, everyone I know voted for McGovern” For years I had a landline and never got polled either. Of course, I have lived in Texas and California – the two most expensive/least interesting states to poll. The probability that a national poll will call you is what – 1 in 1000? (assume 2000/day, 90 days between conventions and election = 180000 people; probably 180million adults in the country)

I’m sure there is some sort of cell-phone effect – but people said this same thing in 2000 and 2004 (especially in 2004). Before too long, once you start trying to dig into it, you get to difficult-to-quantify positions like “what do you think the youth turnout will be this year, since Obama motivates so many people?” I don’t think you can possibly answer that question fairly if you have a horse in the race. Silver’s stuff is great if it is quantifiable – I just think that some of those arguments get too subjective.

by JBImaknee on Oct 8, 2008 6:07 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've spent time in Virginia

…and have loads and loads of friends from Ohio. The company I used to work for in Austin was based in FL, and most of the Austin office had transferred in. Now I haven’t asked everyone, but I’ve asked a lot and nobody I know has ever been called by a pollster except for a couple. They were older and really wealthy so I’m sure they had landlines. But I understand your argument. The point is that nobody without a landline is going to be polled and that’s a fact.

The argument is subjective; by its very nature we do not have the data to support it or disprove it. But you cannot deny that a lot of younger people don’t have landlines and that more of them are likely to vote this time around. The numbers could be significant or not, and we will never know. You bring up 2000 and 2004 and we have no way of knowing about that, either. Maybe it would’ve been a Bush blowout if not for young voters in 2004 and maybe we wouldn’t have had a near constitutional crisis in 2000. Or maybe we would have.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 6:59 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just to clarify ...

McGovern was the Dem candidate in 1972. Humphrey was the man in 1968.

by Athos on Oct 8, 2008 9:42 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my bad

thanks for the clearup

by JBImaknee on Oct 9, 2008 11:51 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At this point it's really anybody's guess

I look at the states in play and how far he is ahead in all the big ones…there’s no way he fails to get at least 300 EVs even if the race tightens and you handicap for closet racists. My opinion, anyway. In reality I think he’ll exceed that. I mean Texas is the only big state it looks like he’ll lose.

If you look at RCP’s electoral map they say that +4% is a “toss up” instead of an obvious lean. Otherwise their conclusion is far more favorable for Obama than 538’s.

In any event, the outcome in my mind is a foregone conclusion. I’m only interested now in how accurate 538’s methodology is. Silver has obviously put a lot of effort into it.

by Black Francis on Oct 8, 2008 5:34 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Huh. The press likes following McCain more...

Switch the names Obama and McCain in this post and it is what I would have predicted.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/07/politics/fromtheroad/entry4507703.shtml

Interesting, fun read.

by JBImaknee on Oct 8, 2008 5:20 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ya know

I think Republicans would be in better shape if Romney was the candidate given his economics prowess.

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Oct 8, 2008 5:27 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Romney would have gotten schooled

in the General.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 5:59 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what

about as Veep?

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Oct 8, 2008 6:06 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think he helps the christian base

as much as Palin.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 8, 2008 6:47 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The economy as an issue would have helped him

but he’d have been down 60-40 going into this last month – the economy wouldn’t help him that much.

by JBImaknee on Oct 8, 2008 6:09 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Early voting in Ohio

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/08/voting_graphic.html

Here is a fun stat sheet. Looks good for Obama – 39-3(!) edge in voter identification as Democrat over Republican. But the absolute numbers are tiny – only 28,000 early voters in a state that Kerry lost by 100,000+. Does anyone know if Obama or McCain tried to get people out for early voting?

by JBImaknee on Oct 8, 2008 6:20 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've been active in an Obama office

So, I’m pretty sure that early voting has been one of the major things emphasized on the Obama side (well, at least if you’re a supporter :)).

R

by Requiem on Oct 8, 2008 6:26 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If that is the case

do you think these numbers are wrong? I would imagine there would have been a lot more turnout…

We need an on the ground update from Miles, like BG suggests. He can tell us if the youth vote is going to come out this year.

by JBImaknee on Oct 8, 2008 6:30 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A lot more turnout?

It’s still very early.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Oct 8, 2008 7:47 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't really know

I mainly did cold-calling in the primaries. And we only had a couple of weeks on average to emphasize early voting (if the state had early voting).

I’d assume that as it gets closer to the election you’ll see more and more numbers (as you get more and more volunteers) to assist in the cold-calling.

Not sure how effective it is, but I was part of the Texas primary/caucuses where it was a matter of emphasis to remind ALL Obama supporters that there was a caucus involved and I think that reminder helped win Texas for Obama (he lost the primary, but made up for it in the caucus).

R

by Requiem on Oct 8, 2008 6:35 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oops

Thought that was a reply to JBImaknee. My bad.

R

by Requiem on Oct 8, 2008 6:35 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was looking through...

various liveblogs of the debate, and came across this one, which I found pretty funny…

http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/10/07/town-hall-liveblog/

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Oct 8, 2008 11:47 PM CDT reply reply