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David Pinto on Ryan

In a bit of meta-blogging, I'm linking to this blog post by David Pinto where he links back to my blog post about Ryan this morning...

But I think it is noteworthy because of Pinto's comments on what is going on here:

Will it work? I'm skeptical. Ryan seems to be projecting himself onto other pitchers, but Nolan was a freak of nature. He held up for so long most likely because his body was built for it. He was built to pitch lots of innings for a long time. Most athletes aren't.

 

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I hope you are having

Seth pitch a few hundred simulated innings a year. Ben was coddled, and look how he turned out.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 9, 2008 1:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ben

more like curdled.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Oct 9, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just think we're assuming

too much. Call me optimistic, but I just don’t see Ryan expecting pitchers to suddenly become supermen. I think he understands the need to build stamina slowly over time, have good mechanics be in place, and will let the managers and coaches do their job in the day to day handling. I hope I’m not wrong.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Oct 9, 2008 1:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree 100%

Nolan Ryan isn’t a dumbass, and he knows a thing or two about pitching. Some changes in philosophy are desperately needed and Ryan will implement them without taking unneccessary risks.

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Oct 9, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm also counting on

the people that actually deal with the players themselves day to day being a buffer. Plus, the talent level is going up so much so fast that we’re going to have more prospects having good years, and by sheer numbers, some of them will eventually have at least a modicum of success in the big leagues. This will ease up a bit on the pressure to do “something, anything” to improve the pitching.

It would be a very, very good thing in several ways not directly related to wins and losses if a couple of young pitchers did well in Arlington next year. If Hurley and Harrison can establish themselves, then I think a lot of this sense of desperation goes away.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Oct 9, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I don’t like Ryan’s rhetoric, but I think he’s overselling his philosophy. Ryan is trying to do two jobs at once: pitching consultant and team president. Ryan is being a great team president by overstating his role as pitching consultant. If Ryan can convince fans that he can “fix” our pitching philosophy and make the team win, then that’s a positive thing for the team. But by focusing on Ryan’s speaking as team president, we’re assuming he’s a terrible pitching consultant. Because of Ryan’s rhetoric, people are associating him with a pitching philosophy that I’m not sure he endorses.

When he starts firing minor league pitching coaches for insubordination or mandating unreasonable pitch counts, then we’re going to have problems. But so far that hasn’t been the case. Ryan hasn’t disrupted the minor league program, but rather has complemented it. He seems to be taking on the role Hershiser played before he moved to pitching coach. Work with a few pitchers, set system-wide goals (improved stamina and strong mechanics with the ultimate goal of an increased workload), work with the coaches, and provide credibility to the team’s efforts to improve pitching.

Ryan may be an out of touch old timer, but so far he’s done a good job adjusting. He’s let JD run the show, showed some patience (e.g., keeping Washington), and has publicly bought into the longterm plan. Every time we have feared Ryan doing something to hurt the team, it hasn’t happened. That’s a good sign, right?

by cstorm15 on Oct 9, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not recognizing

that a lot of what Nolan is doing is for the PR benefit he provides for the average fan is a real oversight.

by mcgee48c on Oct 9, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

yeah

I still think this is much ado about not much.

Is that a guitar riff in your signature?

by Black Francis on Oct 9, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beethoven Symphony No. 5

opening notes.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Oct 9, 2008 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mazzone

had his pitchers throw on flat ground between games. Not really sure why, and I certainly wouldn’t use that as a blueprint.

by SteveP on Oct 9, 2008 1:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think Mazzone also believed

pitch counts were crap.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 9, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didnt Nolan always like Tom House?

Maybe we’ll see Feliz and Holland throwing footballs in the outfield

by BEW on Oct 9, 2008 1:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This is so dumb, Adam.

Nolan’s going to “project himself” onto other pitchers because he forgot normal athletes don’t dominate into their mid-40s.

I mean, if my mom ran into him at Albertson’s, he’d just start asking her to throw a Campbell’s soup can 95 mph! He just can’t tell the difference! He thinks everyone is him! Projecting!

Here’s a rule of thumb: if baseball analysis depends on psychobabble horseshit, it’s probably wise to move on.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Oct 9, 2008 2:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

heh

It’s as if some people are expecting Nolan to turn Derek Holland around on the mound. “Throw with that other hand son, that’s how I did it!”

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Oct 9, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

I agree entirely too much is being made of this coddling thing. Blanket edicts bother me a bit, but I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt on this one. I don’t think Nolan’s an idiot.

Personally I think it’s best to take every Nolan quote you see and imagine it being said by the Rich Texan from the Simpsons. It makes all this WWND hullabaloo seem infinitely more interesting.

Jon Daniels: Hey there, Mr. 5,000 Strikeouts. Just letting you know we’ve decided we’re going to start Wilmer Font in extended spring training next season so we can keep close tabs on his pitch counts and let him build up his innings slowly.
Nolan Ryan: What in the name of high school football!?!?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Oct 9, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Personally...

…I prefer using Rich Texan’s voice when reading the Jerry Jones part in KSK’s Jones/Phillips dialogues, with Butters from South Park voicing Phillips.

by Adam J. Morris on Oct 9, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice

good imagination.

"until they are good, they are not good" - seth

by Chase Irwin on Oct 9, 2008 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So far I think the main point of conention might be extra throwing sessions, like

the poorly defined “live batting practice”, unless someone has uncovered a reference to added side sessions as well. I don’t see much of anything wrong with additional running, additional long toss, or adjustments to a pitcher’s spot on the pitching rubber, which are the things that Nolan has explicitly said they would try to implement.

Go Rangers!

by rooster on Oct 9, 2008 2:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yep

I think promoting actual exercise and weightlifting is a better practice than promoting the Xbox workout program that Millwood is apparently fond of….

by jcir454 on Oct 9, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cmon now

he has WiiFit. what else does he need. He does Kung Fu too.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Oct 9, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hahaha

Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08

by LAMuscleFag on Oct 9, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

AJM-

You seem adamant that Nolan’s approach is doomed, so how do you propose the Rangers fix the pitching issues?

by mattrpav on Oct 9, 2008 2:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Pinto's Analysis...

Same logic that explains why Magic Johnson was a horrible coach. DOesn’t understand why everyone can’t do the things that he was able to do.

by Topgun22 on Oct 9, 2008 3:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But,

does it explain why Larry Bird was a good coach?

by mcgee48c on Oct 9, 2008 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

postseason thread? its the right day now

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Oct 9, 2008 5:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Freak of Nature Debate

I would be hard to argue that Nolan was a freak of nature when it came to the velocity in which he could throw a baseball. It is debatable, however, if his longevity was a freak of nature or the result of his conditioning program.

If he was asked this question, I would think he would say his conditioning had more to do with his longevity than the freak of nature argument.

by T Coleman on Oct 9, 2008 6:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Steve Carlton

Steve Carlton was known for being a huge conditioning freak — much more so than Ryan, when they were both active.

However, Carlton’s last good season was at 40 — Ryan lasted several years longer.

by Adam J. Morris on Oct 9, 2008 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

I think giving a counter example who was a good pitcher at 40 due to conditioning is not helping your argument. There are not many good 40 y.o. pitchers out there. If conditioning gets you to 40, then I’m all for it.

by NorCalRangersFan on Oct 9, 2008 7:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Oops.

Supposed to be a reply to Adam’s post on Carlton.

by NorCalRangersFan on Oct 9, 2008 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point is...

…that you can’t say his conditioning program was the reason why he pitched until he was 45, because if that were true, other pitchers who were just as diligent in their conditioning would pitch that long as well.

by Adam J. Morris on Oct 9, 2008 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Career length

How long would Ryan and Carlton have pitched if they had not conditioned themselves? Probably not as long as they did.

I’m not trying to imply the only reason Ryan pitched until he was 45 was due to his conditioning. But conditioning, especially lower body conditioning, was part of the reason.

And I think that is where he is trying to change the development of pitchers. Strong legs create a strong drive towards the plate which should take stress off the arm. It should also leave the pitchers in better position to field their position…instead of this back leg whip that leaves the middle of the diamond open.

by T Coleman on Oct 9, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but how many how been as diligent?

and how on earth would one ever “measure” such a thing? Who kept records of pitcher’s conditioning programs, including the “in-between games” program? Who keeps these records NOW?

by oldcatsfan on Oct 10, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously, at this point,

what does it matter what he does. The pitching is fucked so bad. Let him do his thing because honestly it really can’t suck any more than what we have seen this year and previous years.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Oct 9, 2008 7:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I buy into the idea...

If we’re going to be a team that doesn’t chase the free agent pitching landmines then here’s the advantages I see to this…

1) We have many many top pitching prospects. Now if a couple get hurt due to bad mechanics and overuse then it’s not going to derail our plan completely.

2) Those who have good mechanics and survive the conditioning, will be better off for it.

3) Because of their increased stamina, they are now more valuable during our 6 years of control and cheap. Major plus.

4) I believe there will be less of a learning curve once they hit the majors because they will have the stamina to get past the batters 2nd and 3rd times around.

Now this all depends on how drastic of a change will actually occur, but I agree with the philosophy and trust Nolan to be smart about it.

by slimshadty12 on Oct 9, 2008 7:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Nolan Ryan

He’s really in a win win situation here. If this works, then the great baseball man nolan ryan has saved the texas rangers.

If it fails then “the great nolan must have been misled by scouts and john daniels because he’s a real baseball man”

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Oct 10, 2008 11:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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