Tim Lincecum wins the N.L. Cy Young Award
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 11, 2008 2:05 PM CST
87 comments
Tim Lincecum was the runaway winner of the N.L. Cy Young Award, getting 23 of 32 first place votes and being named on every ballot but one.
Brandon Webb and Johan Santana finished second and third, and among the rest of the N.L., only Brad Lidge, C.C. Sabathia, and Ryan Dempster received votes.
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Santana
I’m disappointed that Santana didn’t take the award home but at least it didn’t go to Sabathia.
Anybody feel like Webb got hosed?
by Heebs on Nov 11, 2008 2:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Okay, looking at tRA I can see how.
I still wouldn’t say he was hosed, though.
by philkid3 on Nov 11, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
tRA
is the stat of the week around here.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 11, 2008 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
tRA
is the stat of the week geek around here.
Fixed!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Nov 11, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I want to throw a fastball at your head.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 11, 2008 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You want to
suck my what?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Nov 12, 2008 4:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
because everyone knows that tRA is the only stat you should look at when evaluating pitchers.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Nov 11, 2008 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I only look at
3rd order tRA +++++++++++
Actually, I like tRA and tRA+ as much as the next guy. I just think it’s funny that now according to some we’re not allowed to use not just ERA, but not even ERA+, and WHIP is suddenly out of fashion as if it has nothing to tell us.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 11, 2008 6:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Meh.
ERA is fine if you’re being lazy, but defense has such huge impact on a pitcher, if you’re going to pick one stat to put in your post, why one that ignores it?
by philkid3 on Nov 11, 2008 8:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on what you want to know.
If you’re wanting to gauge how good a pitching prospect’s performance can be… then take away the defense.
This is why I question spurdynasty’s use of ERA + as it correlates to OPS +.
Pitching and hitting are two entirely different entities, and in my opinion, shouldn’t correspond like that.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 11, 2008 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Essentially, the moon is made out of cheese.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 11, 2008 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not true.
But what if it was made of spare ribs. Would you eat it then?
by philkid3 on Nov 12, 2008 1:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only if Zack Greinke watched.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 12, 2008 1:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heck, I know I would.
I’d have seconds, and then I’d wash it down with a tall, cool Budweiser.
by philkid3 on Nov 12, 2008 1:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I realize all that
and I never just use ERA, or only ERA+, but it seems like the newfangled tRA it being touted to the exclusion of other stats. I’ll look at all of them, and look at K rates and BB rates as a percentage of PAs as well. I get it. I just think it’s funny when people go a little overboard in their stat purity attitude.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 11, 2008 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mean to get gung-ho about it in the spurdynasty thread...
I just thought it would have been a better resource in defining the value of an ace (his last one), and the projection of pitching prospects.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 11, 2008 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't singling you out
just noticing a trend and the sudden popularity of tRA, a stat I like quite a bit. We now have FIP, xFIP, ERA+, K, BB, K/BB, WHIP, tRA, tRA+, and that’s without getting into any of the warps, vorps, and leveraging stats. Seems like we ought to be able to figure out which guys are good.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 11, 2008 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it should be used to the exclusion of other stats.
But, you know, I don’t always want to to cite every stat that I think has some merit and discuss what relative angles I think they’re displaying. Sometimes I just want to look at one stat and I’ll choose what I think is the best.
In this case, that’s tRA. If I’m, like, voting for an award or giving a more detailed post I might look at more, but if I’m just trying to grab a quick window stat, I’m just going to use the stat that I think is the most useful.
by philkid3 on Nov 12, 2008 1:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he sure does deserves some votes though
maybe when the expanded results come out.
I would have gave the slight edge to Johan though in this one…
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 11, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Very cool.
Cliff Lee should win it but…. Dear sweet baby santa jesus don’t let K-Rod win the CY Young.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. Back to Suckville with a loss to FLA ATL but whatever, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-9 baby!
by sprite on Nov 11, 2008 2:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I bet
K-Rod wins 2nd. Even after their misguided love affair with K-Rod, they should recognize Cliff Lee’s accomplishments and they love a good comeback story. I think Cliff Lee will win by a large margin. Anybody remember when an ESPN writer, I don’t remember who, listed Cliff Lee as the best left-hander in the AL prior the 2006 season?
by Heebs on Nov 11, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That T.R. mailbag reader trade proposal for Lincecum
What do you think about Laird, Michael Young and Marlon Byrd to the Giants for pitcher Tim Lincecum and a Minor Leaguer or two?
— Matt S., Haltom City, Texas
Looks like we might have to throw in Cat now that this promising young arm mucked up that even trade with his cy young winning ways.
"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
by Maximilian on Nov 11, 2008 2:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
LMAO
Well done.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 11, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
its funny how abseball inept some people are
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on Nov 11, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
*baseball
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on Nov 11, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey now
A Gold glove batting title winner for a cy young kid -seems fair to me. After all, hitters are more reliable than pitchers
by JBImaknee on Nov 11, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget
A top 10 defensive CF guru/hard nosed veteran/best dressed in any clubhouse, Marlon Byrd.
"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
by Maximilian on Nov 11, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
We can sign Kevin Mench again and throw him in there.
by FuturePants on Nov 12, 2008 8:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Lidge
I am in the camp that believes a Cy Young shouldn’t go to a reliever, but if it ever did, this would have been the year. He was 60 for 60 in save ops. Amazing. And to think he was had for Geary and Bourn…gotta love the Astros.
by clark on Nov 11, 2008 2:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Relievers should never get it.
A reliever is a pitcher that doesn’t have the stuff/talent to make it as a starter.
by tlt29 on Nov 11, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with this most of the time
but gagne’s year in 2003(?) was def worth it imo
normal people : chuck norris :: getting flustered in big games : greg davis
by knockoutking on Nov 11, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I still find it hard to believe that he was better than the competition:
Jason Schmidt was runner-up that year with an ERA+ of 179. He had a sick year. What are you left with if you replace in the pen with a league average reliever and slide the next closest guy into the closer role? What do you get if you slide a league average starter into the spot of a pitcher who dominates the league at a clip like Schmidt did? Losing Schmidt would have an infinitely bigger impact on the team (as well as the bullpen).
Also funny to note, the four guys who got votes in the 2003 Cy Young race pitched a combined 46 1/3 innings in 2008. Didn’t take long for the wheels to fall off. Can anyone name the other 2 without looking?
by Heebs on Nov 11, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i know one is prior
normal people : chuck norris :: getting flustered in big games : greg davis
by knockoutking on Nov 11, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
gagne 2003
k/9: 14.98
bb/9: 2.19
h/9: 4.04
hr/9: .22
k: 137
bb: 20
.692 WHIP
schmidt 2003:
k/9: 9.01
bb/9: 1.99
h/9: 6.59
hr/9: .61
k: 208
bb: 46
207 IP
.953 WHIP
normal people : chuck norris :: getting flustered in big games : greg davis
by knockoutking on Nov 11, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see the numbers but...
Good closers have far better numbers than starters a lot. I think you have to that into consideration. Especially considering Gagne only needed to get 3 outs most of the time. Schmidt had to face each guy in the line-up, including the middle (which Gagne didn’t always have to face) at least three times.
by Heebs on Nov 11, 2008 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe it should be a reliever. . .
. . . if a reliever adds more wins above replacement (or average, or whatever baseline you want) than any starter.
That wasn’t Lidge this year, as good as he was.
by philkid3 on Nov 11, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't that
Be difficult to gauge for relievers?
by brettgardner on Nov 11, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lidge
I’m pretty sure he was only 48 for 48 in save ops.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Nov 11, 2008 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
does that include postseason?
i didn’t look it up, so i am probably wrong…
by clark on Nov 11, 2008 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
41 for 41 in regular season. 7 for 7 in post season.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Nov 11, 2008 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
60/60
Would also have beaten Thigpen’s record.
by FuturePants on Nov 12, 2008 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at the stats
Webb had a clear edge in tRA+, but I don’t have a problem with Lincecum winning. Both where pretty freaking insane this year.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 11, 2008 2:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Check that
That’s tRA, not tRA+. Lincecum has the better tRA+, and it wasn’t a very big one. Stupid eyes, read the wrong row.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 11, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You know I love Hamels
But as good as he was, I don’t really think he was in the same neighborhood as the rest of those guys (with the exception of Dempster that is).
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 11, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
3rd in PRC, 4th in VORP, 4th in SNLVA, etc. Some of his numbers hurt his argument, notably xFIP and tRA, but I’d say he’s at least in the neighborhood.
Admittedly, with a weaker argument than I thought when I first posted that.
by philkid3 on Nov 11, 2008 8:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What I wouldn't give for Tiny Tim
to be in a Ranger uni.
"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
by Maximilian on Nov 11, 2008 3:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1
:(
normal people : chuck norris :: getting flustered in big games : greg davis
by knockoutking on Nov 11, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I really, really...
was hoping he would fall to the Rangers in that draft.
Though, I also wanted the Rangers to take Kyle Drabek with the Kiker pick.
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 11, 2008 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In appreciation of what Lincecum did this year, and to show you all how dumb I am sometimes, I humbly present my 2006 draft preview.
Unedited. Exactly as it appeared in comment:
Prediction
I don’t think Drabek will fall, but if he does, I think we take him. Barring that I think we take Kiker.
As for what I WANT…
Guys I Want (in order):
-Kyle Drabek (dream big, fellas. From what I’ve heard/seen he’s got ace potential, and that’s worth a shot here.)
-Snider (the 1b/of from Washington HS would give us an impact bat, and he sounds like a very high character guy)
-Kasey Kiker (High ceiling HS arms don’t scare me, obviously)
-Joba Chamblerlain (Reminds me a lot of Thomas Diamond… plus hes just plain got a cool name:)
Guys I Want No part of:
-Stubbs (Too much bust potential for a top pick… especially following the boom-or-bust Mayberry pick. Reminds me a lot of Jeremy Reed with better power, and, frankly, Jeremy Reed would still suck even if he had better power.)
-Scherzer (I agree with Ortonius on this one, Scherzer has an odd-angle max-effort delivery that I can’t imagine will ever let him be a starter… plus he’s got injury concerns. Yuck.)
-Lincecum (I don’t think you take a college reliever this high unless he’s lights-out dominant… and I don’t get that feeling from what I’ve read/seen. And so what if he could potentially “come fast”? What are the odds that he’d be better than Feldman or Littleton over the next year or two anyway?)
I loathe you, Buckles.
by thedirkatron on Jun 6, 2006 11:17 AM EDT actions actions 0 recs
You read that right. I wanted us to go out of our way to NOT draft Lincecum and scoffed at the notion he’d be better than Littleton or Feldman. No one ever listen to me again.*
.* Except about the 40 and Marcus Lemon.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 11, 2008 5:36 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Hey Feldman could develop into an ace
We just haven’t tapped into it yet…
"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
by Maximilian on Nov 11, 2008 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody else
Hear the “rationale” for the Cy Young by these ESPN clods?
by brettgardner on Nov 11, 2008 5:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I watched PTI
and Mike Wilbon (who I like a whole lot, and usually agree with) said that Lincecum should have been 4th or 5th. Webb should have gotten it based on wins or C.C. based on dominance, even though it was for half a season. Him and Reilly were embarrassing in their arguments regarding it.
"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
by Maximilian on Nov 11, 2008 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like watching PTI
But if there is one constant – nobody on that show (Wilbon, Kornheiser or guest hosts) ever has one effing clue about baseball. They literally just talk out the side of their asses and yell, but no actual good commentary comes out. They should just skip baseball segments and stick to wacky injuries and hot girls.
by FuturePants on Nov 12, 2008 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think Dan LeBetard knows what's up.
Like when he talked about how Milton Bradley was better than Josh Hamilton because he was better at getting on base and slugging better.
Time and time again I realize LeBetard is right.
by philkid3 on Nov 12, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes
effin sad.
Fox sports needs to try and compete with them. Whoever…we need another sports channel. ESPN effing suks.
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 11, 2008 6:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
This monopoly they have is just killing the quality of their programming. I can’t even watch Sportcenter anymore. Can’t think of the last time I watched an episode, actually. Basically I watch their live programming, BBTN and the occasional college football wrapup show, which isn’t that bad.
Personally I can’t freaking wait for the new MLB channel to launch this winter.
Assuming they have a wrap-up type highlight show every night to compete with BBTN I’m gonna be all over that shit. And why wouldn’t they unless their contract with ESPN prohibits it?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 11, 2008 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they can hire Harold Reynolds
He hates him some Rangers, but I always liked the dude on BBTN. It also makes me hate ESPN more for firing him for unsubstantiated sexual harrasment accusations. Yowzers, that is hardcore to just off someone for that.
by FuturePants on Nov 12, 2008 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ohh, they've officially adopted
our guys, huh? Neat.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Nov 11, 2008 6:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We aren't going to be MVN guys much longer
We’re finished with them. One more week.
by jparks77 on Nov 11, 2008 6:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good to hear
That site redesign sucked.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 11, 2008 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you keeping the name?
Inquiring minds want to know.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 11, 2008 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Any details?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 11, 2008 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
damn
there’s like 6 different main bloggers over at Blogging the Boys now…
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 11, 2008 9:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
damn
mavs just quit. empty seats everywhere too…
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 11, 2008 10:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
San Francisco
They just keep producing ace after ace after ace.
by chrisR on Nov 12, 2008 2:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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