MJH with Neftali Feliz
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 12, 2008 11:29 AM CST
125 comments
Michael Hindman has a little Q&A with Neftali Feliz from yesterday up at the DMN blog...
Not real long, but some neat stuff in there...check it out...
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Great read
Some comments:
1> I wish I had people offering me lots of money and a career in baseball when I was 15 years old
2> The anecdote about him not knowing who Nolan was is neat and should make Adam happy
3> I love the story that he was supposed to work on holding runners but he never allowed anyone on base. You’d think that in an instruct league they’d have just spotted the other team a guy on first base all the time.
MJH is so much fun to read. His takes on our prospects just make me feel happy. Maybe I need a dose of realism at some point, but its the beginning of a long offseason (only 96 or so more days…).
by JBImaknee on Nov 12, 2008 11:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
MJH: Did you know who Nolan Ryan was before last year?
NF: Not really.
MJH: Do you understand his background now? What he means to American baseball, especially in Texas?
NF: Not really.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 12, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Best part of the interview
No sucking up there.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Nov 12, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
With every Dallas team disappointing now
I needed to read something like this. Thanks.
"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
by Maximilian on Nov 12, 2008 11:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
"He won't start throwing again until the beginning of the year"
uh, is he hurt or something? Ridiculous.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 11:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
2 months off is ridiculous?
He probably pitched more this past year than any other year in his life. Not to mention adding a breaking pitch, which can be stressful to a young arm…
by JBImaknee on Nov 12, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For serious
after an 80 inning jump, 2 months of rest is probably way more beneficial than 2 months of throwing.
by Keynes on Nov 12, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not pitching in games - fine
but not pitching at all is asking for trouble.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it's asking for rest.
It's filed under 'D'... for donut.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a rest from what?
how many days does Michael Phelps ‘rest’?
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Neftali damn well better be pitching
for man than four more years.
by Keynes on Nov 12, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
It's filed under 'D'... for donut.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
Isn't swimming
Like, the lowest-impact exercise ever of all time?
Whereas throwing a baseball at MLB speeds is, like, the most destructive thing known to arm kind?
by Keynes on Nov 12, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Except both can lead to thoracic outlet syndrome.
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like jogging?
Is running on a treadmill a skill, too?
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they don't repeatedly run 26 miles
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 12, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They don't run 26.2 miles everyday
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ah
but they do run everyday. at least the elite ones do. and they don’t throw footballs in the outfield.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
which doesn't really explain
how running and pitching are alike to begin with.
how many marathons does a marathon runner run in a year?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 12, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
quite a few
how bout javelin throwing, shot put, golf
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
quite a few is not an answer
the answer is “no where near the number of times a pitcher throws”
i don’t know the answers to shot put and javelin but I don’t think they they throw 90 time every 5 days for 6 months.
i’m not exactly sure about the parallels between golf and pitching because on face it does seem similar but golf doesn’t seem as high impact as pitching – but not really sure
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 12, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Curiously
The most stressful impact in golf is on the front leg (left for RH, right for LH golfers) The cumulative force of a torso rotation (from a slight pause at the top of the swing), weight shift (can’t hit a decent shot without it) and the centrifugal energey of the swing itself all is applied to the front leg. Even the term “shoulder turn” is sort of misrepresented. The shoulders don’t turn, they lever the club. The torso turns, which is why guys and ladies with good midsection strength are longer off the tee than bigger, more physical players.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Nov 12, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ab, i guess i'm trying to make a couple of points at once
studies have shown no benefits of cross training to elite athletes. assuming a base level of fitness, to improve at an activity one must practice that activity. that’s the principal of specificity. there’s also the principal of overload, that says that i should train to throw 120 pitches if i’m expected to throw up to that much in a game. baseball says no to both of those principals when it comes to pitching. i think a lot of it has to do with the ‘high impact’ concern. now, a pitcher’s individual mechanics will come into play that complicats matters. but i can give you a study that says a pitcher fully recovers from the physioligical impact from pitching within (IIRC) 48 hours.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can't assume a base level of fitness.
To maintain that base level, you have to do non-pitching things… like running, sprinting, long toss, and weight lifting.
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I mostly agree with that.
I hate long toss though.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no pitching
just means no sim games or real games which tends to add more stress. most pitchers do this. they dont throw AT ALL for about 2-3 weeks sometimes a month. For Feliz they probably said 2 months off but still do a lot of band work and jobe exercises, etc. Doesnt mean he isnt doing shadow work or maybe even doing light flat ground work, nothing over 60 ft. Also, one of the big reasons pitching puts a lot of stress on your arm is the incline. So they probably told him no mound work for 2 months as well. This is VERY normal
by Michael Cave on Nov 12, 2008 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that it's normal.
Believe me, I was taught all the band work, long toss, shadow work, towel drills, flat ground pitching, all that stuff back in the day. Don’t take this personally or anything, but I consider all that stuff a complete waste of time and actually as detrimental.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally,
I believe in all of the things you said you dont believe it, BUT one thing i do believe in a great deal is that everyone is different. For example, not everyone is supposed to have similar mechanics however they do need to have the foundation correct (feet, fingers, and neck as my old coach Ray Burris would say haha).
by Michael Cave on Nov 12, 2008 7:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah they do recover
And then they throw a side session in the bullpen and possibly a long toss before their next start. They do this for 9+ months from the start of spring trainging to the end of fall instructs. A couple months of not throwing hard is perfectly fine for the body and will not affect a pitcher negatively.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but combined with the limited pitch counts
during the season…my concern is that the well-intentioned protection will hurt more than help.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hes not gonna forget how to throw a baseball
The risk of injury increases so much the more they throw at such a young age that you do whatever it takes to limit that risk. he will have ample time to work on his breaking ball once they get going again after the new year.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we'll just have to agree to disagree
there’s been no proof that the limiting of pitching activities that have gone on these past decades have done anything to reduce injuries. i think throwing 1 or 2 bullpens a week in the offseason is more than reasonable to maintain timing. the bigger injury risk is coming into spring training not fit to pitch and out of synch.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's because no one will subject their kids to potentially damaging studies.
It is medical fact that the stress from pitching will deform your growth plates even if you are biomechanically perfect. The younger you are, the more pliable your growth plates are.
These facts are indisputable.
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we're not talking about
a 14 year old whose coach is having him throw 200 pitches a week. ASMI has guidelines for youth pitchers that I agree with.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We *are* talking about a 20 year old...
who has at least a couple of inches in the past two years. As long as the body is growing, the growth plates are still active.
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
*has grown
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i think the impact issue trumps all
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 12, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if they 'muscle' the ball
then i agree with you.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the offseason
is exactly the time he should be working on the breaking ball, and throwing from the stretch. i’m having a hard time understanding how someone can get better at an activity by not practicing that activity.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's actually the time to recover from the daily grind
and wear and tear on fragile body parts that don’t heal well during high-use periods – like elbows and shoulders.
The kid just finished a 7-month stretch of practice. I’m pretty sure he’ll be fine taking two months off, but you might be right.
He could develop bad habits by not doing anything… or even forget how to pitch altogether!
It's filed under 'D'... for donut.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What if he just practices going through his throwing motion; sans throwing with intensity?
Does that do any good?
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 12, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rick Peterson uses this a lot in his work.
It helps a lot of people figure things about their bodies. I’m a big fan of it.
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What I like to do...
Going through a wind-up… but freeze framing my body during different parts of the motion… just to see if everything is in balance.
Does that do anything?
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 12, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you do
it front of a mirror it helps however it is better to simply to do complete shadow work from start to finish without pausing. this is what i did and it seemed to help…
by Michael Cave on Nov 12, 2008 6:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Throwing
I doubt it means he is going to spend the next two months sitting on his couch doing nothing. It means no live throwing or hard throwing. He can probably play catch or long toss but as far as reeling back and throwing upper 90s heat or breaking balls (which put alot of stress on an arm) that is off limits until january or so. The only way to work on breaking balls is to throw them full speed. Thats not something the rangers want him doing aftre the amount of innings he threw this year.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're absolutely right!
Growth plate deformities and overuse injuries be damned! Why does he even need a UCL anyway?
It's filed under 'D'... for donut.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So, the word "prevention" means nothing to you?
It's filed under 'D'... for donut.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
next to weight lifting and heavy ball throwing
not pitching is probably the worst thing you can do to your arm.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching and throwing are two completely different things
he can still go out and throw I imagine. But pitching is off limits the next couple months.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
'throwing' is kind of pointless
if he’s not pitching at full speed, there’s not much point.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where do you get all of your "facts"?
It's filed under 'D'... for donut.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's called
the principal of specificity.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That principle applies to command and control.
Specificity alone is worthless.
And you didn’t answer the question.
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that principal
applies to any skill activity. pitching is throwing from a mound to a target. it’s a skill activity.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You still haven't answered the question.
Specificity refers to repetition and muscle memory. It will not help you condition yourself, and your velocity ceiling will be much lower.
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
muscle memory
is exactly what he should be developing right with respect to his breaking pitch and throwing from the stretch. if he waits until the season to try to develop these thing and make changes, he will revert under the stress of a game.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said below.
He just got done with 7+ months of side sessions and in-game practice. Unless you’re worried about him forgetting things, this is a strange argument.
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And he doesn't need to be pitching year round
Nobody does that. Its too stressful on the body. Throwing upper 90s heat and then throwing breaking balls puts alot of stress on the arm. It needs rest otherwise the injury risks skyrocket.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching is actually worse for your arm...
than weight lifting. Heavy ball throwing is worse than that.
It's filed under 'D'... for donut.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i'm gonna have to disagree with you there
pitching is the best thing a pitcher can do to stay fit and be a better pitcher.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess that's why Kevin Millwood is in such great shape?
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he spends his offseasons
hunting. last year he did a lot of kickboxing. didn’t really work out for him.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And you base this on what research?
Whose studies have shown this to be true?
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't bring my reference materials to work
but if you’re actually interested, i can cite them later.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You should cite them all the time.
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why?
nothing i’ve said is controversial, except in the backwards sport of baseball. of course if i say these guys should be lifting weights and throwing footballs and doing long toss, that would be readily accepted.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It has nothing to do with anything being backwards.
You make unsubstantiated claims like “only pitching makes you a better pitcher.” You never back them up. You never bring anything to the plate except an opinion. It doesn’t add to the discussion, it just makes you look like a goofball.
If you want your opinion to be respected, give us a reason to respect it.
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trip, if you consider me a goofball
I recommend you attend the ASMI Annual Injuries in Baseball course in Houston in January and catch Dick Mills presentation.
And I can assure you I don’t post here to gain anyone’s respect. I come here to read about the Rangers. I typically only comment on subjects I know, and this is something I know.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You were playing the role of the persecuted outsider.
You called baseball “backwards” and suggested that you wouldn’t be an outsider if you professed weight lifting and long toss. I don’t care why you post here, but when you play the persecuted outsider card, you can expect responses like that.
The fact remains, you have yet to back up anything you’ve said, but you have dropped Dick Mills’ name on us – not a strong play.
- Dick Mills claims (or used to claim) that driving off the rubber doesn’t help increase velocity.
- Dick Mills teaches (or used to teach) that twisting is the best way to throw hard.
- Dick Mills overplays (or used to overplay) his Barry Zito hand and actually had very little to do with Zito’s success.
He may be a bit more informed than he was a couple of years ago, but I would recommend to you that you broaden your horizons a little bit.
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, Mills
used to teach that one doesn’t drive off the mound. He said the foot was pulled off the mound from rotational forces. He used to teach pitching drills and had an interview from Zito who said the drills were the best thing. I disagree with all that, and so does he…now.
Trust me, I’ve heard pretty much every pitching philosophy out there.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you know who NoName is?
I think you might not realize he really what he does, and that he really does know what he’s talking about….
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 12, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to say
If I had to pick one person here not to argue with about how to actually, physically play baseball, it would be NNOC.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 12, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
Trip knows more about pitching than most “experts”. He also knows the value of a good “sammich”.
by jparks77 on Nov 12, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What sort of sammich are you referring to?
by Joey Matschulat on Nov 12, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trip introduced me
to the greatness that is the Pizziola sammich at Subway.
by jparks77 on Nov 12, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It is greatness.
Everyone should eat them.
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i can think of several reasons why you shouldn't
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 12, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stupid iPhone
To be fair, SteveP sounds like he knows what he’s talking about too.
by LiamP on Nov 12, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
I think he knows what he is talking about, but he is misinformed.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 12, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
all scientifically based
plus i’ve tried it. never felt better than when i get to throw bullpens 3 times a week.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool deal
where did you pitch? I commented on someone of your earlier posts and i LOVE talking about pitching personally.
by Michael Cave on Nov 12, 2008 6:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Michael
I walked on at Baylor a long time ago. Blew an elbow early on in fall ball to end my career before it started. I now play in adult leagues and tourny’s.
by SteveP on Nov 12, 2008 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome
I pitched at the University of Dallas for 4 yrs. Did pretty well actually. I cant say that i agree with everything you say on pitching however I do realize pitching is one of the most “controversial” subjects out there.
by Michael Cave on Nov 12, 2008 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The chicken at Subway
scares me.
www.mavsmoneyball.com
by Wes Cox on Nov 12, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Spam must be delicious then..
cuz I’m terrified of that.
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 12, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But the only important question is
what does he think of scap loading.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 12, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LSB posters i don't argue with:
1) ajm – respect his house
2) ed coffin
3) nonameoncard
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Nov 12, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
addendum:
4) zwyica
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Nov 12, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
NO NO NO
im sorry but trust me rest is almost as important as repetition in pitching.
by Michael Cave on Nov 12, 2008 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Benoit last offseason
I seem to recall something about him not throwing last winter. Does that mean not pitching, or that he didn’t pick up a baseball and throw it once during his 3 months off?
When he showed up to spring training I thought there was a bunch of talk that his arm wasn’t ready to begin throwing. Any chance this happens to Neftali?
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 12, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not likely.
Benoit’s shoulder weakness was more likely caused by injury (new or pre-existing) than by whatever he did throwing-wise in the off-season. Improper weight lifting can easily lead to tearing in and around the shoulder, too.
Without knowing what he did last off-season, I can’t really add anything else.
Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.
by NoNameOnCard on Nov 12, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have any idea
what the “standard” is for most of these guys? Do they ‘throw’ but not ‘pitch’ on their own in the offseason?
What would you suggest as a good offseason routine? Obviously leg heavy drills like squats and deadlifts, sprints, agility drills etc. But what kind of throwing routine would be beneficial, if any?
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 12, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He did throw a butt-load of innings out of the bullpen in '07.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 12, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jack said
At the start of last spring training he “took the winter off”. Don’t have links, but it was a topic of conversation here and on NMLR. I believe he later said he wouldn’t do that again. But you hit a point of concern, since he didn’t round into shape, with his stuff working, like you’d expect.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Nov 12, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember that
exactly the way you put it.
Although, it sounded like Jack Benny had taken the winter off completely – not even getting his body into shape
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 12, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
From what i remember it was made to sound like he hadn’t done anything during the winter. That is bad. not picking up a baseball for 2 months is not good. But thats not what Neftali is doing. Hes just not going on a mound and throwing like he would in games. he can go play catch and long toss everyday I imagine if he likes but not max effort.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
benoit
obviously had shoulder issues all year (as you note). I talked about it with an old pitching coach after seeing him throw on TV. He looked like he was lifting his arm with his shoulder (big NO NO). When he tried to drive through the ball his shoulder would lift up and then towards the plate. basically, he was pushing the ball with his shoulder. Ask any reputable pitching coach and they will tell you that pitchers do NOT throw with their shoulders.
His arm had more a whip action last year than this year. Just look at tape and look at his arm this yr compared to last yr. last yr his arm was relaxed all the way through the throw, this year it was not. Look closely at his fingers on the ball as well, you can tell last year that he was throwing the ball with this fingers rather than lifting with his shoulder.
by Michael Cave on Nov 12, 2008 6:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Benoit
Could his shoulder issues have been caused by coming to camp out of shape and having to play catchup to everyone else? Almost like he was trying to compensate for his arm not being ready by using his shoulder more thus causing the injury
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I really think so
And i agree exactly with what you said above my reply. This is what I think happened:
1) Took two months off of pitching (perfectly normal) however he didnt do flat ground work, didnt to any towel drills, did no band work, no jobes, and no working out. I think he really just cadillaced the off season
2) Came to spring training behind everyone and out of shape (like you say).
3) Did the same workout as everyone and this caused muscle soreness. He then started making adjustments to his deilvery to compensate for his muscle which caused it to turn into shoulder soreness thus his laboring delivery for the rest of the season
Just a hunch but ive seen it happen.
by Michael Cave on Nov 12, 2008 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Before I look at this, is he scap loading?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 12, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry
Terry Clark looks like he’s on scap patrol.
by shroomer on Nov 12, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Poor kid.
I wonder if he realizes what he’s up against.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 12, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What is he up against?
If he doesn’t know who Nolan Ryan is, I highly doubt he’s concerned with anything other than his development as a pitcher.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 12, 2008 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
whoa!!
I didn’t follow up on that question. I’m not entirely sure what he meant and I had a 48 year old Mexican man translating what a 20 year old Dominican kid, so there could have been something lost in translation.
With all due respect, y’all are making a bit too much of this.
BTW: I did ask him how long he thought it would take him to get his FB back up over 100 and he said “not long at all.”
by mjh on Nov 12, 2008 2:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I am shocked that a debate on the internet would go too far. Just Shocked.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Nov 12, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's allow ourselves to dream for a moment. . .
. . . what if he becomes Pedro Martinez? OMG!
Okay, that asside, I love how Derek Holland is now so fixed on our radar that he gets shoved in to Neftali Feliz interviews.
by philkid3 on Nov 12, 2008 3:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I really like it
in several ways when one of these guys holds up another arm as someone they’re excited.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 12, 2008 6:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
as someone they're exited
…about.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 12, 2008 6:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Defending myself on the Holland Q
Holland and Feliz were two relatively under the radar pitchrs who started out in freakin’ Clinton, ended the year kicking tail in the Texas League and being named one of the best L/R duos in all of baseball. They also happened to be the only two guys in the conditioning camp who hadn’t thrown a pitch in Triple-A. I think they are aware of the fact that they have an unique connection.
by mjh on Nov 13, 2008 4:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They also seem like two guys
for whom conditioning wouldn’t ever be a topic of discussion, no?
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 13, 2008 8:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Conditioning
should be a topic of discussion for every professional athlete in every sport.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 13, 2008 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't intend that to be condescending
I meant that as in, by all accounts, these are two guys who will bust their ass to improve.
I’m not worried about whether Derek Holland and Neftali Feliz will come into camp in shape.
I’m worried about Kevin Millwood, Brandon McCarthy, Joaquin Benoit, Kasey Kiker. People who have essentially been called out for one physical reason or another.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 13, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling
that they’ll be getting a lot of questions about each other quite a few more times.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 13, 2008 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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