Crasnick on Sheets
Another possibility is Texas. Sheets lives in Dallas in the offseason and has a strong working relationship with Rangers pitching coach Mike Maddux, who just came over from Milwaukee a week ago. Texas needs to upgrade its rotation, and Maddux is a self-professed Sheets fan who has stayed in touch with the pitcher since the end of the season.
"I would love to have that guy on my team regardless of where I am," Maddux said in a phone interview.
One thing is a virtual certainty: Sheets' name will come up in conversation when Maddux meets with general manager Jon Daniels, assistant GM Thad Levine and the rest of the Texas front office Friday.
"I understand why general managers have concerns," Maddux said. "But as somebody who was close to him, you say, 'It's just a bump in the road.' A healthy Ben Sheets pays his dividends. He's pretty darned good. He started the All-Star Game, and that's not a mistake."
For what it's worth, this it he guy I hope the Rangers really target. while he is easily the second best pitcher on the market this offseason, I could see him getting total guarenteed money below guys like Perez and Dempster, especially if he is willing to sign a three year deal. Plus, it would certainly give us some leverage in trades, and we might finally stop hearing (or at least hear less of) the "Rangers should trade (good, young asset) for (generic back of rotation guy) because any pitcher is an upgrade for them" talk.
also worthy of pulling from the article:
He has a better career strikeout-to-walk ratio (3.85-to-1) than Johan Santana, Roy Oswalt and Roy Halladay, and a lower career WHIP (1.20) than Josh Beckett and Brandon Webb.
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148 comments
Comments
I could see him getting total guarenteed money below guys like Perez and Dempster, especially if he is willing to sign a three year deal.
I can’t see how that would happen, unless some injury news is revealed.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 12, 2008 12:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I said "total"
and not “yearly,” because I expect those guys to push for deals of five years and get at least four, while all indications are that Sheets will probably only get three.
I could easily see Ryan Dempster getting a four year, fifty million dollar deal, and Sheets signing for three years and 45 million.
by clark on Nov 12, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And that is why
I’d support signing him, because It’s much less risky to have a guy for 3 years than 5 or 7 that someone like Sabathia is going to get, or even guys like Lowe and Dempster. 3 years at a big annual rate is fine with me. If you’re going to make a big free agent signing, make as short a commitment as you can.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 12, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
years
I can’t see him signing for less than 4. Millwood got 4+ at an older age.
If he’s an injury risk, considering his high profile in this market he’ll ask for a longer term. This is the magic hour of his career, with FA coinciding with good health and good numbers.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 12, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good health?
I thought he didn’t even finish the season?
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 12, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean...
He allllllllmost threw 200 IP.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 12, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And then came down with a scary injury.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 12, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Full disclosure
I didn’t follow the NL side of the playoffs, not that series.
I’m trying to cover my ignorance of that injury, and pretty poorly…
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 12, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You'd hope Maddux...
would give his honest opinion injury wise to the management when they meet…if he wants to keep his job.
by slimshadty12 on Nov 13, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I imagine Texas will make a serious play for Sheets
Just a gut feeling. There’s a confluence of a lot of factors here (Sheets’ proximity to Arlington, Maddux’s recommendation which will presumably hold a lot of weight with Nolan, his relatively reasonable contractual demands and history of success when healthy) and they could ultimately convince Hicks to expand payroll for a special exception like Sheets.
No idea what he could conceivably pull down, but the Jason Schmidt contract could be the model (albeit with some back-loading or deferred money or some such that lessens the financial burden).
by Joey Matschulat on Nov 12, 2008 12:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kind of like Adam said about a Boston trade
it almost makes too much sense to happen.
Considering that Sheets has strong ties to the area and the pitching coach, and that the Rangers desperately need a pitcher of his stature and have the money to sign him, it only makes sense that they’d get together.
Yes he’s had injury problems. It’d be great to structure the deal with some protections against a cataclysmic failure of his arm. But those injury concerns exist regardless of where he goes, and they really exist for most possible pitching acquisitions out there.
by JBImaknee on Nov 12, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This would be a good time for...
AJM to post a 2009 outlook including payroll outlook for the Rangers. It would help to see how’d he’d fit in with the expected ’09 payroll.
by Heebs on Nov 12, 2008 12:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I can't find the source
but someone reputable recently wrote that after the arb raises, the current payroll will be about 6-7 million shy of last years number, and Hicks and JD have said that they expect to stay real close to the same payroll.
There isn’t much payroll room to play with.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 12, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They expect too
but if Maddux makes the case with Nolan and JD on board, I think Hicks could open up that payroll to make it happen.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 12, 2008 7:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
According to Hicks
the payroll is player specific. Sheets is the specific player if he isn’t full of shit.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 12, 2008 7:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
And despite Hick’s mantra lately about not buying starting pitching, Sheets is no CHoP. He’s the real deal, not some guy fueled by his home park. I forget who was doing the research on him but Sheets has put up some legendary K/BB ratios in the past and that’s exactly what you need in our park…keep balls out of play (k’s) and limit the freebies (bb’s).
by slimshadty12 on Nov 13, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just posted a fanpost on next years payroll if it helps
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/
This is me, teaching you to fish…
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on Nov 12, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
be better at the internet
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 12, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hah
I didn’t say I didn’t figure it out, I just said he inappropriately linked the webpage. I would suggest you refrain from jumping to conclusions. It is not enviable.
by Heebs on Nov 12, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Based on just a quick scan
I would say that as of right now we are going to be right around 70 if we don’t sign anybody else. Thats not counting a possible Hamilton extension either.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wiggle room.
Millwood is really uncertain to make his innings totals which guarantees his contract for 2010. He needs 191 1/3 innings in 2009 to guarantee the contract at 12 million. Millwood would need to start about 32 games (at the average innings/start rate he has been going at the last couple years) in order to hit this mark. Does the team take this into consideration when signing Sheets. I think this could be a good way to leverage the new contracts onto the books. Sheets>Millwood (arguably) and Millwood could be leaving soon, whether traded or not.
by Heebs on Nov 12, 2008 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Penny
I haven’t heard a whole lot of chatter on him. Anyone else interested in bringing him in? Seems like you could get him with something like 2/15 since the Dodgers bought out his $9M option. I think he may be a pretty big bargain as he has been consistently above average to excellent for the past 7 years except last year.
by bushe on Nov 12, 2008 12:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I worry about Penny
The guy, when healthy, is very good. That fastball can be blazing and he carries a nice sinker. He also doesn’t seem to give up a lot of homeruns which would be nice in this ballpark.
He does, however, seem to have an injury concern as well. He really seemed to wear down at the end of the 2007 season (where he was lights out in the first half) and as we know he was injured for the greater portion fo the 2008 season. I also read a scouting report which says he tends to wear down after the 5th inning. I have confidence in our bullpen rebounding, however I hate the idea of spending decent money on a guy who might not make it regularily past the 5th/6th. He averaged 6.3 Innings/Start in 2007 and 5.7 in 2006. He also pitched better on the road in 2007. Interesting.
by Heebs on Nov 12, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my concern with Penny
is that he has pitched in two of the most pitcher friendly ballparks throughout his career, and exclusively in the NL. That may not translate well.
by clark on Nov 12, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm even less confident he can stay healthy
than any of the rest of the Ranger arms.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 12, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sure
but he will take less than 1/3 the money that Sheets will get
by bushe on Nov 12, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But less chance
of that money being used well.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 12, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im down
for that because there are a few minor mechanical adjustments you can make with Penny that will make a slight more durable. Offer him 2/18 with about 60% of that being based on innings pitched.
by Michael Cave on Nov 12, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm down for it
as long as it’s no longer than 3 years (I guess I could do a 4th year that vests with incentives).
I’d go 3/45 with a vesting option for 4/62.
I think he’s worth the risk for the Rangers on a short term deal.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 12, 2008 1:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
that seems reasonable
which means he’ll probably get something like 4/65 guaranteed.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Nov 12, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I could live with that
150 – 175 IP from Sheets is a heck of alot better than the collection of spares like Feldman, Mathis, Nippert and such.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 12, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
Sheets gives you quality innings and quality starts. He’s not a guy that gets shelled, even when he comes back from the DL, meaning you are confident every time he’s out there. Additionally, when he’s on the mound he goes very deep in games. Unlike Penny, a guy who has never had a propensity to be successful the third time through the order.
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 12, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are very confident when hes out there
Only problem is you don’t know how often hes gonna be out there
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's had
4 seasons of 198+ IP in his career
Granted, only one of those are in the last 4 years….
Even when hurt, he’s pitched ~150 innings twice. Only once has he been down around 100.
Give me 150+ innings of Sheets over the rest of our spares like I said above.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 12, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are very confident when hes out there
Only problem is you don’t know how often hes gonna be out there
sheets in a nutshell – great and exactly how i feel
normal people : chuck norris :: getting flustered in big games : greg davis
by knockoutking on Nov 13, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and last year
he still had 198 innings.
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 12, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
An anonymous scout called Sheets the best 6 inning pitcher in the world.
(I think it was a quote in a Rosenthal article, but don’t quote me on that! LOL!)
I wouldn’t be against bringing him in here and limiting him to 6 or 7 innings a start in an effort to maximize his health and effectiveness.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 12, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
since our 7,8,and 9
guys are NAILS! (sarcasm intended)
"Fielding isn't that important" - Save Us 11/11/08
by Haeger Champ on Nov 12, 2008 5:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jack, Ceej, & FX2
should be alright in the 8th & 9th.
Maybe mix/match or Eddie for the 7th?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Nov 12, 2008 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ha
coach at AC says that ALL the time
“you guys are freaking nails” lol
normal people : chuck norris :: getting flustered in big games : greg davis
by knockoutking on Nov 13, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think those are realistic numbers
if we are aggressive at the onset and try to secure him before some of the other pitchers are taken off the market.
buy early if you are targeting a specific guy, and buy late if you are just targeting a specific need. Olney was quoted on ESPN today as saying he expects a large number of bargains to still be around in February because of the economy.
by clark on Nov 12, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets
If we sign him does he step in at #1 or would Millwood stay there as the local veteran?
What would our rotation look like?
It sounds like Padilla could be traded which would shake things up even more.
by Heebs on Nov 12, 2008 1:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Uh
I’d put Sheets at #1 without even having to think about it.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 12, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
Yah I guess that should be right.
I have seen in the recent past that local vets will get opening day and start at the top of the rotation due to seniority. Example Brad Radke over Johan Santana. Radke of course was around a dozen years ar that point.
by Heebs on Nov 12, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
radke
special situation though
radke was on the back part of his career, santana was on the front + radke had been there for a long time with just the twins
trying to think of another situation where that would work out, but one is not coming to mind
maybe HOU w/ oswalt if they traded for peavy?
angels with lackey over CC (if they signed him)?
normal people : chuck norris :: getting flustered in big games : greg davis
by knockoutking on Nov 13, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if we sign sheets
there is a pretty decent chance we try pretty hard to unload either Millwood or Padilla. There are a couple of teams, including the Mets and Braves, who might be interested in Millwood considering it is a short commitment and that he has had success in the NL East before.
I would imagine that would be the best way to make this work financially.
by clark on Nov 12, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
financial issues
i don’t care what the expected payroll was thought to be, you throw down for sheets – especially if the commitment is somewhat short (3 years, 4th vesting with incentives). I think the Rangers are pretty confident in what they’re going to have in 2010 and sheets really is that good.
also, i don’t think the comments about what the payroll is going to be are any indication of what is going to happen with sheets
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 12, 2008 2:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
agreed
Hicks has said he will raise payroll if its for the right players. Sheets fits that bill IMO. But we also have to count hammy and a possible extension in there as well. If they work one of those out and it goes toward this seasons payroll adding Sheets as well could push it toward 90 mil which I do think is out of the realm of possibility for next season.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
YEP
If he’s interested at all you have to nab him. He’s the type of top of the rotation guy the Rangers long for.
Make it happy Big Daddy!!
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Honorable Mention:
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Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 12, 2008 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what about a deal like millwood
wihere you have multiple years w/ vestiing incentives
normal people : chuck norris :: getting flustered in big games : greg davis
by knockoutking on Nov 13, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
did we suck enough last year to get our 1st round pick protected?
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 12, 2008 2:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
would you not give up the pick for sheets?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 12, 2008 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on Nov 13, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone else afraid
that signing Sheets would make Hicks think we’re in compete-in-‘09 mode, instead of compete-in-’10 mode?
by Keynes on Nov 12, 2008 2:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hicks
Even if he thinks that i don’t see what he could do to mess with our 2010 chances. We have a ton of talent on the farm who are almost ready and even more a few years away. We won’t lose our 1st round draft pick if we sign a FA.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Free Agent Pitchers
Here is a short list of potentially desirable pitchers who are eligibile to become unrestricted free agents in 2010:
Erik Bedard
Jose Contreras
Doog Davis
Justin Duscherer
Rich Harden
John Lackey
Brett Myers
These guys could be free agents if an option is declined:
Josh Beckett
Cliff Lee
Brandon Webb
There are a lot of potential aces coming available for 2010 as well.
by Heebs on Nov 12, 2008 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see why
Any of those last 3 would be free.
As for the others, I’d only be willing to go big for Lackey, and even that’s pending this next season’s performance.
We’ve got enough problems without giving big money to broken players and headcases.
by brettgardner on Nov 12, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Harden
Not big on Harden? That guy is an absolute stud than healthy. I’d take a healthy Harden over a healthy Sheets any day. Of course, two halves don’t make a whole and that is usually what they both are.
I’m not sold on dishing out big money for any of those guys either. As well, you are correct that there is no reason Beckett/Lee/Webb will have declined options. I was just stating facts.
If Bedard bounces back and he isn’t signed to an extension would we consider making a play? It would be nice to add a strong lefty to the rotation.
by Heebs on Nov 12, 2008 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely not
On Bedard, for me. I think he’s shown that he could take baseball or leave it.
And I’d love to have a healthy Harden. That just doesn’t seem very likely.
by brettgardner on Nov 12, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets
has a totally different injury history than Harden. Harden has had ONE season where he threw over 150 innings, and he came up with less that year (189) than Sheets had this year (198)
Sheets top years by IP Harden by IP
237 190
221 148
217 128
198 75
157 47
151 26
106
We don’t need a healthy Harden over a healthy Sheets, because a healthy either one wins every game they pitch behind this offense. What we need is a guy you can count on to throw some innings, and 150 of them is pretty damn good on this team.
Sheets may hit the DL, Harden will hit the DL.
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 12, 2008 6:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that looks weird
and not how i’d typed it… but you get the point
btw your infatuation with Harden and your hating on Beltre i kinda think you need to research more and go off your gut less
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 12, 2008 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with everything except...
Both will go on the DL. Sheets just seems to pitch more before going on than Harden does.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 12, 2008 6:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Allow me to enlighten...
First and foremost, I don’t understand your pre-disposition towards me. It is frankly weird.
Second, your use of innings pitched to compare these two pitchers is ridiculous. Both pitchers have been significantly injury prone and deserve a big asterisk next to their name in terms of risk. A healthy either Sheets or Harden does NOT win every game behind this offense. As well, regarless Harden is a BETTER pitcher when healthy than Sheets.
Harden, in his last two healthy years has had an ERA+ of 206 and 172 respectively. I’ll ignore 2007 and 2006 because of the sample size.
Sheets, in a moster 2004 year, had an ERA+ of 162 and has followed it up with 128, 119, 117, and 139. These are VERY good. However, I believe, like I said, Harden is a stud when healthy. He is a better pitcher than Sheets.
Want tRA+, 2008 Sheets had a tRA of 128 and Harden carried between a 141-146. Look, Harden is a better pitcher.
Plus look at the injury history for Sheets. Yes, he pitched a lot of innings 2002-2004 but he’s been injured A LOT since then.
“In 2005, he sustained what was termed a "viral infection” of the inner ear, and missed 30 games due to dizziness and altered balance.
A torn latissimus dorsi muscle in his right shoulder occurred in late August and ended his season.
In the offseason, he had a microdiscectomy back surgery to correct a herniated disc in his lumbar spine (low back). While this is considered to be a minor back surgery, it should be noted that no back surgery is “minor.” Having any spine procedure as a 27-year-old is somewhat concerning, and leads me to wonder how his overall core conditioning is.
The 2006 season saw Sheets begin the year on the DL due to a posterior shoulder strain.
Tendinitis of the right shoulder landed him back on the DL in early May. He spent a great deal of time on the DL with this injury—a span of 72 games passed before he returned to action.
A torn tendon in his right middle finger sidetracked his 2007 campaign; he was sent to the DL in July and missed a course of 40 games.
After returning for a few starts, a minor hamstring strain was enough for him to miss the final eight games of the regular season.
He has also dealt with an array of minor injuries that did not require much, if any, missed time (right pectoral strain, left groin strain)."
This is something to be considered when discussing Sheets. Sheets put in a good number of innings last year but ended on the year hurt with another scary injury. This is something to consider.
by Heebs on Nov 13, 2008 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no disposition
your name looked familiar, but you’re not one of the most regular posters so I didn’t remember how. Then, I looked up your post history and it took me about 1 minute to find the exchange we’d had on Beltre. It’s not like I get on LSB and look for posts by you to dismantle, I’m no troll (as you aren’t either). I just severely disagree with you sometimes, and this happened to be one. I don’t take offense, and hope you don’t either.
You are ABSOLUTELY right in assessing Sheets as an injury risk. And, you are right when you suggest Harden is a better pitcher than Sheets, when both are at 100%.
All I was trying to point out was that Sheets, any given year, will be handicapped to throw at least 150 innings, something he hasn’t done only 1 season. Regardless of the laundry list of injuries you just mentioned. As for Harden, for fear of Carpal Tunnel I really don’t want to do a write-up on his injury history. It does need to be noted that Harden has played one less season than Sheets, and has made it to 150 essentially twice (148 is close enough) compared to Sheets’ 6 times. And I know they wouldn’t win every game behind this offense, that’s sarcasm.
The point I’m making is, even with his injuries, Sheets gets on the mound and starts at least 2/3 of the games every year. Some years, like this one and the 2002-2004 campaigns, he starts over 30 games. Harden did that ONCE, in 2004, and didn’t register 190 innings in the process.
YES, we need a stud pitcher. BUT, we need a stud pitcher that can walk nobody and eat innings. Neither pitcher fits the bill of a Halladay, but Sheets is much closer. He walks less guys and pitches more games/innings. Plus, our chances at signing Sheets our way higher than our chances of luring Harden down here. Sheets is from Louisiana and knows Maddux, Harden we will no doubt have to money-whip… something I’m not prepared to do for him.
Sheets is a headache, Harden is a migraine.
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 13, 2008 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets
lives in Highland Park now. I’m thinking it’s a legit possibility.
Also, there is absolutely no question that Harden is the better pitcher when healthy…
It’s just there is absolutely no question that Sheets is a better bet to be healthier more often than Harden.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 13, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And that I can recognize
However (and this doesn’t really get solved with Harden either) I get worried when I discuss adding a “proven ace” that is this injury prone to an already shaky rotation. Adding a guy like Sheets who might have to shuffle in and out of the rotation several times due to injury a year isn’t my idea of a solution for this rotation. Adding a guy like Harden who might, and probably will, do the same thing probably isn’t either. This rotation is already very unstable. I think it is a better idea for teams to take on this risk if they already have a stable rotation that will be greatly enhanced by a pitcher with this risk but not devestated by the loss.
If we are looking long-term, which we clearly are and should be, maybe the rotation would be better off in the long run. 2010 or 2011 when some of the young guys might provide a little stability. I just hope it is there. Millwood and Padilla will probably be gone at that point.
by Heebs on Nov 13, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a healthy harden is a top 10 pitcher in the game, maybe a top 5?
normal people : chuck norris :: getting flustered in big games : greg davis
by knockoutking on Nov 13, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
one factor to think about
is that this may (hopefully) be the last time in a long time that our first round pick is protected, so, all else being equal, it would behoove us to land our big time free agent pitcher this year instead of next year.
also, sheets is a special case for a number of reasons. the first two are his residence in Dallas and his relationship with Maddux. Most FA pitchers will not give us the time of day unless our offer is the largest by far, but I think we are very competitive for his services.
Also, most any other time a pitcher of his age and ability hits the market, you will be hearing about deals of 5 years or more and many millions more in guarenteed money. It is really only because Sheets ended the year on the DL that he is now in the 3-4 year range, so I think the Rangers should gamble and be especially aggressive.
by clark on Nov 12, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
good points all the way around
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 12, 2008 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
less than 5 years and I’m all over it.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 12, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Schmidt
He got a 3 yr contract too though. It isn’t as if all <4 year deals work out. I’m not anti-Sheets but I don’t think he is a super great buy either.
by bushe on Nov 12, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But
a 3-4 year contract doesn’t hurt “as bad” as a 5 year deal, right? Less risky….
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 12, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, for the most part
However not totally devoid of risk either.
by bushe on Nov 12, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
John Lackey
is destined to be a Ranger.
by tyd3311 on Nov 12, 2008 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope not
I hate that smug, horse faced son of a bitch with every fiber of my being.
"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
by Maximilian on Nov 12, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Newberg seems to think so
as well.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 12, 2008 6:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Meh.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 12, 2008 7:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He would provide the innings eatery Millwood couldn’t.
by tyd3311 on Nov 12, 2008 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Lackey will age well.
And he’s gonna cost.
Plus I hate him, though I could get over that part if I thought he was a good bet to succeed here long term .
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 12, 2008 8:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He is flat-out terrible at the Ballpark.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 12, 2008 8:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sleeper agent?
Or maybe it’s just our awesome offense.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 12, 2008 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but zito
was flat out great at the Ballpark IIRC
normal people : chuck norris :: getting flustered in big games : greg davis
by knockoutking on Nov 13, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think...
Dirk is gonna age well. I was thinking that last night.
"Fielding isn't that important" - Save Us 11/11/08
by Haeger Champ on Nov 13, 2008 1:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really know.
Seems like his skill set would let him hang around a while, though obviously not as a franchise player.
I dunno, though. I pretty much stopped watching the NBA cold turkey after we got Bavetta’d so hard in the “Finals”. How any Mavs fan could continue to watch NBA basketball after that shit is beyond me. I used to watch 6-10 games a week. Now? Nothing. I might watch a bit of a Mavs game if it comes on just cause I still love Dirk with every fiber of my being, but I don’t give a flying crap nugget about that “league”.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 13, 2008 1:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what happened to me
The last couple of seasons killed me. I was drugged and convinced to be in a fantasy bball league — so that is about my only connection to the league now. I read about the Mavs on mavsmoneyball and dallasbasketball.com but I don’t really watch the games anymore.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 13, 2008 7:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Expressed my feelings exactly.
My buddies had the Nuggets game on. I can barely stand watching the NBA anymore, just too damn painful.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 13, 2008 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he meant
you weren’t going to age well. He probably has a case for that argument.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 13, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you're
as NOW as he is, you don’t age.
Take that argument and stick it.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 13, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's now,
but what about later? He’ll be THEN.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 13, 2008 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re looking at now, sir. Everything that happens now, is happening now.
What happened to then?
We past then.
When?
Just now!….. We’re at now, now.
Go back to then.
When?
Now.
Now?
NOW!
I can’t!
Why?
We missed it.
When?
JUST now.
When will then be now?
Soon…
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 13, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
SPACEBALLS!
“only one man would dare give us the Raspberry…LONESTAR!”
"Fielding isn't that important" - Save Us 11/11/08
by Haeger Champ on Nov 18, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ditto for me
After watching the Heat-Mavs series, I stopped caring about anything non Mavs involving the NBA and really have just cared less and less since then.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 13, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Doog Davis
I laughed really hard at this.
"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
by Maximilian on Nov 12, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i wonder if trying to get sheets had some effect on getting maddux.
I think we she should sign Sheets, him being injury-prone shouldn’t stop us from getting him.
by Save us on Nov 12, 2008 3:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wow, logic?
Yes, I think that may have been a concern in his hiring.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Nov 12, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
More posts like this, please.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 12, 2008 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
has anyone looked at
rotoworld’s updated FA guesses.
Of interest, this guy has Sheets signing for only 2/28, and he has the Rangers signing Penny to a one year, 8 mil deal.
by clark on Nov 12, 2008 3:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
also of interest
is the paltry amount of money he has Tazawa signing for, and the 2/12 deal he has Wolf signing for. Weird, because last year he generally overshot his estimates.
by clark on Nov 12, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Red Sox?
That makes Buchholz a little more expendable… Seriously. That’s just too much starting pitching.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 12, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes...
we all know how awful it can be to have TOO MUCH starting pitching.
"Fielding isn't that important" - Save Us 11/11/08
by Haeger Champ on Nov 12, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's worse than...
a logjam at catcher!
"Fielding isn't that important" - Save Us 11/11/08
by Haeger Champ on Nov 12, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If the rangers
signed Penny for 1/8 and somehow got Sheets for 2/28. That would be a wildly successful offseason IMO. Add to that the possible deals of salty and laird for young pitching. Add that to our superior farm system and we are looking good.
by Michael Cave on Nov 12, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just won the freakin' Lotto!
Oh sorry, I got sucked into your alternate universe for a sec there…
:)
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Nov 12, 2008 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHA
yeah im just going by rotoworld….:-)
by Michael Cave on Nov 12, 2008 7:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i like shit
add sheets and bucholz to the rotation and add beltre to 3rd base and this team would have a legit chance to compete in the division while still holding onto its prized prospects.
by kumizi on Nov 12, 2008 4:18 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
ahahahahah
i dunno why i typed i like shit instead of i like sheets
by kumizi on Nov 12, 2008 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets
better not become a Jason Schmidt then.
I have a feeling he’s going to be pitching in the state of Texas (whether it’s the Astros or the Rangers, doesn’t matter).
by jonthefon on Nov 12, 2008 4:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1
Sheets is one of those players that is a legit, #1 pitcher when healthy. Sheets has averaged a tRA+ of 133 over the last 5 years. That is well above the typical #1 starter. (With some years as high as 153 and 143). According to tRA, Sheets has been a #1 starter 4 of the last 5 years, and in the one year he wasn’t a legit #1, he was a very strong #2 starter. I see very little downside outside of health.
And, if there is no structural problem with his arm and he is willing to come to Texas, it’s a slam dunk. Sure there is a health risk, but he has started at least 24 games in every year except for one in his career.
And he is still only 30. Hell, if you are worried about payroll, trade Padilla or Millwood. I know people are talking about how this team can’t be competitive in 2009. Sure, they are unlikely to be competitive in 2009 with the current roster, but if they add Sheets and say trade Padilla and Laird for Bonderman, you suddenly have a very interesting team that could contend and isn’t mortgaging the future.
I don’t think that being competitive in 2009 has to necessarily mortgage the future. The only concern I can think of is the fact that you would want to leave 2 or 3 rotation spots open for young pitchers like Harrison/McCarthy/Hurley. But, you can still accomplish that goal even if you add Sheets.
ANDY. SONNANSTINE.
by Stephen Rushin on Nov 12, 2008 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Sheets actually has good mechanics when you look at general, foundational rules ive learned from pitching. Sign Sheets for 4 yrs at 55-60 and Penny for 2/18 with a lot of it being incentive based.
by Michael Cave on Nov 12, 2008 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just wondering
Do they have the tRA+ stats for Millwood for the years before he signed with the Rangers? I’d like a comparison of the two.
by hiafex on Nov 12, 2008 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
03’ PHI 120
04’ PHI 102
05’ CLE 116
06’ TEX 111
by tyd3311 on Nov 12, 2008 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
03’ PHI 120
04’ PHI 102
05’ CLE 116
06’ TEX 111
by tyd3311 on Nov 12, 2008 6:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Millwood pitched just as you would have expected/hoped in 2006. Then he got overweight and started declining.
ANDY. SONNANSTINE.
by Stephen Rushin on Nov 12, 2008 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And we're hoping that Sheets wont follow the same path
Correct?
by hiafex on Nov 12, 2008 6:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Sheets is significantly better than Millwood has ever been. Sheet’s average season over the last 5 years is a 133 tRA. That is better than any single season Millwood had prior to joining the Rangers. (well at least the years that are visible on statcorner) Millwood averaged a 113 tRA in the three years before coming to the Rangers. That is a pretty huge difference.
The average #1 starter has a 130 tRA+. Sheets, in an above average #1 starter. I think you can say that even if he declines, he is still significantly better than Millwood.
ANDY. SONNANSTINE.
by Stephen Rushin on Nov 12, 2008 6:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Whoops, that is a response to hiafex
ANDY. SONNANSTINE.
by Stephen Rushin on Nov 12, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed.
But this is all a moo point if his medicals don’t come back looking pristine, no?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 12, 2008 7:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah.
We’ll see. He sure is intriguing, but that his injury concerns are a pretty big deal. If healthy, it would be pretty awesome to add a pitcher of Sheets ability without even giving up a first round pick. Hell, we were talking about giving up a ridiculous package for Peavy.
ANDY. SONNANSTINE.
by Stephen Rushin on Nov 12, 2008 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"moo point"
Like a cow’s opinion. It doesn’t matter.
"Fielding isn't that important" - Save Us 11/11/08
by Haeger Champ on Nov 13, 2008 1:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Was wondering if anyone caught the Joey reference ;)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 13, 2008 1:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
That makes me feel much better. I’m tired of the Rangers giving these huge contracts to people who haven’t earned them. What would you expect out of Sheets in a full year at RBiA?
by hiafex on Nov 12, 2008 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Theoretically
Since tRA takes into account ballpark effect and defense, we should expect about a 130 tRA+, although that might translate into a 3.75 ERA as opposed to a 3.00 ERA because of defense, park effect, and league. I think he is still young enough that he shouldn’t be declining quite yet. Either way, a lot depends on his health.
ANDY. SONNANSTINE.
by Stephen Rushin on Nov 12, 2008 8:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
we should sign Ben Broussard to a minor.
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Nov 12, 2008 9:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
sabathia vs harden in the NL last year
rich harden in the NL:
252 ERA+
1.77 ERA
.97 WHIP
71 ip
89 k (11.28 k/9)
30 bb (3.8 bb/9)
6.66 hits/9
.58 hr/9
sabathia in the NL:
260 era+
1.65 era
1.00 whip
130 IP
128 k (8.82 k/9)
25 bb (1.72 bb/9)
7.3 hits/9
.41 hr/9
overall pitches
harden:
FB: 64.0% (92.0)
SL: 2.9% (84.9)
CH: 28.8% (84.8)
SF: 4.2% (84.6)
total # of pitches: 2458
sabathia:
FB: 53.9% (93.7)
SL: 25.1% (80.5)
CH: 20.8% (86.1)
total # of pitches: 3814
now heres a question that was somewhat talked about above…
who would you rather have in 2010 and forward? harden or sheets
equally, why would anyone want to trade for peavy when there are people like harden and sheets and sabathia out there that will “only” cost a pick vs costing a ton of prospects (and good ones at that)?
finally, if harden has an entire year without getting hurt does it a) make you more interested in him as a FA next year and b) make the total amt of money/years harden gets as a FA more than what sheets gets this offseason?
normal people : chuck norris :: getting flustered in big games : greg davis
by knockoutking on Nov 13, 2008 11:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Scared
I’m scared to consider what Harden’s pricetag might be if he pitches 200+ innings next year and becomes a FA
by Heebs on Nov 13, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it will be what it probably should
hes a fucking good pitcher.
+one of my fav players
+a former a (would love to have him pitching down the strech for us vs oak lol)
hes one of those guys that i would love to see in a rangers uniform
and he would become my fav ranger (just ahead of hamilton/kinsler)
fwiw, finished the hamilton book. wow.
normal people : chuck norris :: getting flustered in big games : greg davis
by knockoutking on Nov 13, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
to Sheets. I’m going to say this in every Sheets thread until he is signed.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 13, 2008 12:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Officially aboard that bandwagon, myself.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 15, 2008 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs



















