Friday morning stuff
by Brett Perryman on Nov 14, 2008 8:49 AM CST
230 comments
TR Sullivan has two pieces out there, one saying the Rangers are making the bullpen a priority for the offseason. I do think that, in the big picture, the team should make dominant late relief central to its plan to make and compete in the playoffs, because we've seen that you can have excellent pens in Arlington, while we haven't seen demonstrated that you can have an excellent rotation. If the club can build an upper half rotation to go with a great pen, improved defense, and a top offense, it might have a formula for success that it can actually achieve. However, the way they're looking to "bolster" their pen does concern me. The last time Daniels looked to add an established late reliever, he made the worst deal of his career. And I don't think that there are great options in free agency or that signing second tier free agent relievers is a good way to achieve what I'm describing.
Sullivan's other article centers around the start of free agency today and Milton Bradley's probable departure. Daniels says the club is going to bargain shop:
"We all know the names that are out there, but I don't see us as strong suitors for one of the top guys," Daniels said. "I'm not saying we're going to stay out of the free-agent market entirely, but I don't see us dealing at the top of the market."
A few of the names that might fall into the Rangers' price range are right-handers Brad Penny and Jon Garland and left-hander Oliver Perez. The Rangers also might bring Jennings back on a Minor League contract.
The Star-Telegram has its own list of possible free agent targets for the Rangers. This one includes Ben Sheets and Brian Fuentes.
In case you missed it, Josh Hamilton did win a Silver Slugger award.
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I think strong bullpens are great
I think acquiring relievers though is a fairly ridiculous strategy. Most relievers are hopelessly erratic year to year, or maybe the fact that they only go 60 innings or so, and you are always looking at small samples makes it seem that way. Building a strong bullpen is one of those easier said than done things.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 14, 2008 8:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
bullpen
i agree, going out and getting relievers has never made a ton of sense to me as guys who have been great before seem to implode fairly easily. To me the bullpen is the place to break in younger pitchers and maybe take a flier on a guy making a comeback.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Nov 14, 2008 8:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I really think doing that
and trying to find a guy who can burn some innings, and not make the bullpen pitch so many innings is about the best way to help the bullpen.
I think one of the reason our Bullpen sucked so hardcore was related to them pitching more innings than anyone else in baseball, and also they had probably the worst defense in baseball behind them.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 14, 2008 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
I want to get creative rather than simply targeting overpaid 8th/9th inning types. I think TB’s bullpen is a good model. I had never heard of most of those guys going into the year.
Again, easier said than done.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 14, 2008 8:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Part of the reason
that it’s easier said than done is that clubs attempt to make anyone with any hope of being a starter a starter. JP Howell is a good exmample of this. They (and KC) beat their heads against the wall for a couple of years with him, then gave in and moved him to the pen, and he became a real asset. Some of what I’m saying is that maybe you go ahead and make one of these guys with impact potential a late reliever if he’s not developing the game necessary to start (once you have a competitive team at least).
by Brett Perryman on Nov 14, 2008 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we've found that out as well
a la Jack Benny. To some extent, CJ. Could’ve worked with Tejeda as well I think, given an opportunity and some more patience
"Calmer than you are... "
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 14, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As I said
I generally don’t think that FA is the way to build a pen, certainly not via second and third level guys. Also, top relievers aren’t hopelessly erratic. Mediocre ones who put up a good year here and there are.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 14, 2008 8:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
top relievers
they also cost way too much either by trade or free agency, and that money is better spent on the rotation
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Nov 14, 2008 8:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say that you should trade for or sign top relievers
This is more the response I was expecting the first time I stated this opinion. I’m not saying go buy a bunch of relievers.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 14, 2008 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
relievers
i think you misunderstood, i wasnt implying you said to go buy relievers.
I was agreeing with you and adding that “top” relief pitchers just cost too much.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Nov 14, 2008 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Top Relievers
are called closers. There are so few consistent relievers that they generally get put in a closers role.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 14, 2008 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In time they filter their way there
But what you’re saying is not even close to true. Jose Arredondo, Scot Shields, JP Howell, Okajima, etc are not closers.
I’m not suggesting that you should try to carry the same three relievers for ten years. I’m advocating the willingness to use failed or struggling starting prospects with two good pitches in relief more than anything else.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 14, 2008 9:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
for example - Tommy Hunter
I think he could be a good ML reliever as soon as this season.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 9:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
possibly
it seemed like there were a couple of games he started last year in which he cruised through the first inning and then gave up 5 or more runs in the second. but i still think he just needs more time in OKC and he can become a very solid middle to back end guy in a rotation. I am very bullish on Hunter.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
bullish on Hunter
Me too. But I think he has better potential as a late innings guy, rather than a back rotation guy.
Will Carroll said that he has followed Hunter since childhood (friends w/ his family or something) and that he has visions of him as a closer.
I’d leave him as a starter in OKC to start the season, but if the Rangers were still in the race mid-summer, I could see him being a valuable bullpen addition in 2009.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
hadn’t read that. if he can really be an effective late inning guy, I would certainly take that. and truthfully, there are only so many spots in the rotation, so i wouldn’t mind seeing us break in some young pitchers this year through bullpen roles.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the Carroll quote
was from his appearance at the Newberg event.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll agree with that
but don’t jump off the “Hunter as a starter” bandwagon just yet. I think he and Diamond may end up as very good pen arms. I also think that the more guys we have in the starter race, the better the potential that one or more end up as great long term options as a true 3 or 4 starter in our rotation. I’d hate to take Hunter and thrust him into the pen for the long term and miss out on a chance that he becomes the next Rick Helling…isn’t that his comp?
"Calmer than you are... "
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 14, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hunter
While I’d agree with that, he’s one of the guys I’d like to leave as a starter. He is what he is, someone we can count on for some inevitable emergency starts with some decent production.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 14, 2008 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As long as they are our
failed or struggling starting prospects, I agree with you.
I’m just concerned about Sullivan’s piece, and would be very concerned if we signed a reliever to a 3 year contract so we could recreate the TVP and Jay Powell eras. Multi year contracts for FA pitchers generally make me wretch, and after reading Sullivan, I could almost see the John Hart protegee remaking that mistake.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 14, 2008 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wouldja?
go 3 years for Wood?
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not me.
I still think his arm can fall off his body at any time.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 14, 2008 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whose falls off first
KRod or Wood? Wood’s obviously been falling off for a few years now, but KRod’s has just been hanging on this long to screw some poor team that signs him for $60 million…
by JBImaknee on Nov 14, 2008 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
woods falls off first
but krods ankle breaks, back is messed up and elbow is shot in about the sme time frame
i just hope WAS doesnt sign him
i cant stand seeing him here
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 14, 2008 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how much is that going to cost?
we get an insurance clause, right?
I’d probably go after him, a bullpen with Frankie, healthy CJ and Wood at the end of it can’t be too bad if our starters go longer this year and our defense improves.
"Calmer than you are... "
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 14, 2008 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
The very worst kinds of signings/acquisitions are those Van Poppel/Powell ones, guys who are borderline setup guys who you commit too much to for multiple years.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 14, 2008 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
arredondo
used to be aposition player IIRC
and has been a RP in the minors for a while i think too
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 14, 2008 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nippert?
He was the first Ranger to come to mind after reading your post z
by Royal Swine on Nov 14, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really a response to you
but to Z’s comment about JD failing at acquiring relievers.
Presumably he’s talking about Aki. Otsuka was effective for a good part of his time in Texas – the trade was a disaster because the principal piece coming to Texas was Adam Eaton. I used to think of the trade as Chris Young for Aki and Adrian Gonzalez for Eaton. The latter is obviously a massive ‘Fail’. But I’d argue that the former move, while obviously not looking good now, was not insanely stupid. As good as Young has been, there is no certainty that he’d have worked out in Arlington. Not that I want to rehash that trade again – but its important to point out that the acquisition of Aki wasn’t fundamentally stupid.
The failure came when Texas held onto him too long. I would argue that the the lifespan of effective relievers is short – but they are somewhat predictable. The idea is that you find a guy who has one or two very good pitches. You may get 2 years out of them if he’s unfamiliar to hitters in your league. Then you trade him / let him go.
by JBImaknee on Nov 14, 2008 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trading a starter for a reliever
is a massive, massive fail in my book, even if both are roughly equivalent. Trading 150-200 IP for 60 IP is just absurd and insanely and fundamentally stupid.
There was never ever any way to justify any part of that trade.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 14, 2008 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I admit it didn't work out
But you can’t be so abrupt to say that any starter for reliever trade is bad. Would a Scott Feldman for Huston Street trade make sense? I’d do that. Now, you could argue that Scott Feldman is no Chris Young, but it isn’t clear that the Rangers didn’t think exactly that back then. I think the problem with that deal was the Rangers assessing the potential of CY, not recognizing the value in Gonzalez, and overvaluing Eaton.
If you thought, as they probably did then, that CY didn’t have a strong future in Texas, then trading him for a proven reliever wasn’t fundamentally stupid.
by JBImaknee on Nov 14, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Aki...
there was talk of him trying out for the Rangers this coming year, I don’t know if he ever recovered enough to do that.
If not he can always open an Asian restaurant in L A like “the Toad” did.
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 14, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i think
there is a pretty good chance he is brought in on a minor league deal. the team seemed pretty high on that idea last year.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
might as well kick the tires on him..
He was pretty awesome his last year. Of course Guardado may get his tires kicked too.
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 14, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
remind me
did he go ahead with the elbow surgery?
by SteveP on Nov 14, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe he did.
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 14, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TJ......I thought...
Akinori Otsuka-R- Rangers Jan. 10 – 1:43 pm et
Free agent Akinori Otsuka will undergo elbow surgery Wednesday, he reported on his blog.
Otsuka didn’t say whether it’d be Tommy John surgery or something less severe. We’re guessing he’ll need to have the ligament replaced. If it was a lesser problem, he should have had it taken care of months ago.
Source: Kyodo News
Rotoworld
by laxtonto on Nov 14, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
im under the impression that no one is 100% sure WHAT the surgery was, just that it was elbow surgery
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 14, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd always heard
we wanted Aki, they wanted Young for him…we asked for Eaton back to get a veteran starter, and they asked for Adrian. While that may seem like “Eaton for Adrian,” I would say starter for starter, reliever for 1B was the way they looked at it. Either way, it doesn’t matter, you can’t break up that trade – it was 2 for 2, not 1A for 1B and 2A for 2B. So either way, with the production we were HOPING to get back, I think we could have won that trade, obviously, if Eaton had stayed healthy and say Chris Young gets hurt.
and I thought it was a win because we got two pitchers and only gave up one. when we needed bullpen and starting pitching. hindsight, I was WAY wrong. but at the same time, I can’t help but think how Young would’ve pitched in Texas the last 3 years instead of San Diego
"Calmer than you are... "
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 14, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aki for Young
is a trade i would do again. Aki was key in the back end of our bullpen and i still refuse to believe Young would have been as effective here. What killed me, even at the time, was selling so low on A-Gon just because we had him to spare, and buying a single year of an injury prone pitcher.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ypung could get better,
but he isn’t that great to begin with. The injury and stamina concerns are still there.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Nov 14, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh god
Jon Garland?
ANDY. SONNANSTINE.
by Stephen Rushin on Nov 14, 2008 8:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
garland
could be this year’s lohse. and if so, he could present an intriguing bargain for a team out there. I am actually amazed at the amount of talent on the market this year. The number of useful guys, combined with the sagging economy, could lead to a number of guys still waiting for deals in January, and Garland’s lackluster final year before FA makes me think he could easily be one of them.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Count me out
tRAs of 82 and 90 the last two years. He is basically a #4/5 type starter at this point and will command over $10 million a year. Hell, Millwood and Padilla were both better than Garland last year. I’d put money on one (maybe two) of Hurley/Feldman/Harrison/McCarthy out-performing Garland next season.
ANDY. SONNANSTINE.
by Stephen Rushin on Nov 14, 2008 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
see, i disagree
about how much money he will command. i am not advocating us running out and signing him, but i honestly could see him still sitting there at the end of January and taking a one year, five million deal to try to reestablish some value.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jon Garland is terrible.
and KLaw agrees:
Garland should have “AVOID” tattooed on his forehead, as everything about his stuff and performance is pointing downward. He has never had an out pitch, and his stuff was more ordinary than usual this year.
He was sitting 88-92 with a mostly straight fastball, a fringy slider in the low-80s and a hard changeup that keeps lefties from destroying him, although they still hit him hard. In 2008, his strikeout rate dropped, his walk rate increased, his home run rate increased and, of course, his ERA spiked, even though the defense behind him was better than the one he left with the White Sox. He brings one thing to the table in his durability, as he has gone seven straight seasons with at least 190 innings pitched. But Barry Zito’s best attribute when he went to San Francisco was his durability too.
by BHill on Nov 14, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Freeagents
i’m not impressed with the pull from the scrapheap list there.
i’d like the rangers to make a push for sheets. His injuries are scary, but if other teams are scared he might be able to be had for an incentive laden deal that doesnt kill the team,
like a 3 yr deal with a 4th year option
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Nov 14, 2008 8:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd like us to take the same approach with him
that the Angels took with Torii Hunter last year. Swoop in with a 3-4 year deal with a high annual salary and tell him that we’d love to have him and this is what we’re willing to pay, now take as much as 24 hours to decide because at the end of that timeframe the offer expires. I think it makes it too hard on JD to have all these contingency plans floating around while waiting on the primo target to make up his mind and shop our offer around the league.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets
That’s what I’d like to see done. I’m willing to overpay for Sheets. Sure he has injury problems, but I don’t think anyone doubts the kind of production we’d get out of him healthy. I’d rather overpay for someone like that than someone who will suck it up every other start.
He’s the kind of guy you want at the front end of your playoff rotation. Just look at what Beckett did for the Marlins and Sox when he was able to stay healthy.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 14, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so let me get this straight
where do you sit on giving Milton Bradley a 2 year deal with incentives and a 3rd year option based on games played?
"Calmer than you are... "
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 14, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not BZA
but I agree with him on Sheets and don’t really care what we do with Bradley. I think our offense is going to be fine and he doesn’t need to be anywhere but DH, a spot that should take care of itself on this roster.
We have bats, we need arms, Sheets has ?s, he’s a stud, bring him
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't care on Bradley
because if he leaves and we get a draft pick, fine
if he signs for 2 years (he won’t play however many games his contract states so the 3rd year is just for looks), fine. his bat plays nicely, but he may block Smoak. too far out to worry about Smoak. whatever. either way
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really encouraging, if true...
Newberg put it in TROT COFFEY today.
http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/massarotti/2008/11/sox_and_yanks_the_best_and_wor.html
In the end, a deal with the Rangers is far more likely, and it may come down to what the Rangers are willing to give up. If Texas wants someone like Clay Buchholz in return, the Rangers must part with Saltalamacchia, whom the Sox prefer. If the Rangers only want to give up Laird, they’ll get Michael Bowden. That deal almost certainly would inspire the Sox to sign a veteran starter for the No. 4 or No. 5 spot in their rotation, which means someone like Derek Lowe would be too pricey.
He almost sounds like a Ranger homer.
Also, MJH on the 40:
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/11/40man-roster-issues.html
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 14, 2008 8:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
certainly interesting
i’d do salty for bucholz today (even though i still think saltalamacchia can turn into a solid catcher). I’d probably do laird for bowden too even though bowden doesnt interest me much
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Nov 14, 2008 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
either of those trades
would be absolutely mind blowing if they went down. i would begin to insist that JD deals exclusively with Boston.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
boston
honestly though i don’t think either deal is likely.
as adam said, a deal with boston almost makes too much sense and those never happen
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Nov 14, 2008 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A simliar deal was the Tex trade remember rentz?
A trade that, at least I thought, was too good to be true. Maybe JD is just trading smarter lately and could pull a trade like Salts and Clay.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Nov 14, 2008 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
This is the same guy who said that Masterson was not gettable but Buchholz was, the other day.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 14, 2008 9:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and frankly
i will choose to believe him, even if he is completely out of touch with reality.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 14, 2008 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Masterson
He talks about him in this blog post too.
He’s consistent, if nothing else.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 14, 2008 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the most amazing thing
is that the fans responses at the bottom of the page show not only a willingness, but an inclination to trade Buchholz. In one case, someone actually says he would rather trade Buchholz than Bowden.
I know the opinions of this collection of people (the writer included) doesn’t really matter at the end of the day, but I am still shocked at how the collective RSN has soured on Buchholz so quickly, essentially looking at him as we viewed Volquez last year at this time.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
On Buccholz
From today’s Globe:
Clay Buchholz concluded his time in the Arizona Fall League earlier this month, and his performance left Double A Portland pitching coach Mike Cather glowing about his maturation and future.
“It was the hardest I’ve ever seen him work,” Cather said. “It was the most disciplined I’ve ever seen Clay. It was the most I’ve ever seen Clay grow up.”
Buchholz’s numbers in Arizona regressed after a dominating start. He allowed no runs and only one hit in his first two starts, a span of eight innings. He then surrendered nine earned runs in 13 innings over three starts, giving up 17 hits and seven walks.
Still, most important was Buchholz’s approach. Late in the regular season, he was demoted from Boston to Portland, where Cather worked with him on “getting back to his roots,” the coach said.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/11/14/pedroia_has_clout_at_2b/
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 14, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh NOOOOO
he’s finally grown up? We can forget about that deal.
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 14, 2008 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like the Sox
are using the press to boost Buchholz’s trade value.
by JBImaknee on Nov 14, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ala Devin Harris.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. Back to Suckville with a loss to FLA ATL but whatever, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-9 baby!
by sprite on Nov 14, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well they are owned by the same people...
so its probable
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 14, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it's a lot easier
to give up on a top prospect, to a team with an abundance of what you need, when you already have an abundance of what that prospect is. If we had a Beckett, a Matzusaka and a Lester to go along with a dominant bullpen and deep pockets, I’m sure it’d be easy to do as well. Too bad we can’t understand that kind of logic
"Calmer than you are... "
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 14, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hearted Volquez last year and didn't want to trade him at all.
Until the name Josh Hamilton was floated that is.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm....
Why does he point out that the Yankees traded for Nick Swisher at the beginning of his column and not include him in the lineup of either his best- or worst-case scenarios for the Yankees?
by GhettoBear04 on Nov 14, 2008 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Swisher
He looks at him as a bench player I think he says earlier…
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 14, 2008 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The KLaw!
He has posted his top 50 FAs over on ESPN, here.
Always entertaining, and a few eye opening rankings that could lead to some discussion.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Can someone with insider
Tell this poor college student what number Sheets is?
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 14, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't have access
but i can say that MLBTR reported:
- Law’s reliever rankings are sure to get people talking, but they are justified with scouting reports. Wood is ranked #13, then Affeldt at #15, then Francisco Rodriguez at #16, and then Brian Fuentes at #18.
- Law ranks Koji Uehara well ahead of Kenshin Kawakami.
- Law had this to say about Sheets: “Sheets’ natural habitat is the disabled list.”
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
#23
Caveat emptor. Sheets’ natural habitat is the disabled list, and he was pitching hurt when he was pitching at all by year’s end. A healthy Sheets has a solid-average fastball with decent lift, a hard downer curveball in the mid-70s and a solid-average changeup that he’ll use against lefties or righties.
He has outstanding control — 288 unintentional walks in over 1,400 career innings — and command of all of his pitches. When he’s right physically, he’s an ace, which will probably tempt some team to pay him more than his current health situation would merit. Even if his most recent injury is just a forearm strain, you can add it to all of the other body parts he’s injured over his career, including the back problem that will probably never truly go away. With apologies to Luke Appling, Sheets should inherit the nickname “Old Aches and Pains.”
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 14, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fine
this mentality is what could lead to us getting him on a nice little two or three year deal. any other year, the market throws caution into the wind, but with all the other options out there, this can be our year to surprise some people.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The back problem
is the one that actually worries me. Back problems are hard to fix, and may even be related to his other troubles.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 14, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rosenthal
In his column today he says the Rangers are going to go after Wood, especially since he is now out of the Cubs plans.
Fire Ron Washington
by pblack on Nov 14, 2008 9:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see that as well.
Sheets/Wood would have me super stoked headed into next season. Especially if we flip one or two of these catchers into young arms.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 14, 2008 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets + Wood + a catcher trade
That would be an incredibly exciting offseason, even for a skeptic like me.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sheets + wood + buchholtz
and id be more than happy
id fly back to tx to watch!
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 14, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
That would be about as good as our offseason could get, really.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 14, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
would it be too much...
to add onto that, nobody else giving Bradley anything more than a 1 year contract, and us picking him up with a 2 year deal???
"Calmer than you are... "
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 14, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i really dont think it happens
but if it did…damn
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 14, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be THRILLED....
if J D pulled that off. LBrooks would go into hiding and the Rangers would have a rocking 2009.
Sounds like a win win to me.
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 14, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's the problem
let’s say that hypothetical happens. Then we have a rotation headed by Sheets, Millwood, and Padilla. Then we have BMac, Harrison, Feldman, Hurley, and the young Boston pitcher all legitimately vying for two spots, along with Hunter, Holland, and a couple others with outside chances as well. I know the addage “there is no such thing as too much pitching” but in this case, there might be.
also, as much as i love both sheets and wood, that is A LOT of money in two guys who have spent many days on the DL.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
normally,
if we did end up with that many starters, i would think we could deal a guy like Padilla, with only one year left at a reasonable rate, for something else of use, but this market will make it difficult to deal pitching for value because of all the starters on the open market.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the Rangers
Our pitching staff is decimated by injuries every year. How many starting pitchers had we marched out there by July? 11? 12? You can always flip Padilla or Millwood as well.
I would probably roll out there with a Sheets/Padz/Millwood/Buchholtz/McCarthy rotation and Feldman long relief. Let those guys work on some issues in AAA. There’s no doubt one of the brittle arms will go down, and they can step in.
I’m setting myself up for disappointment, because I’d be pretty giddy if that was the scenario we were looking at.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 14, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this rotation:
Sheets/Padz/Millwood/Buchholtz/McCarthy
with a decent bullpen, is playoff material.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that number 5 pitcher
is apparently strapped to a hospital gurney sucking on an oxygen mask due to a hurt finger right now. Can we please eliminate him from consideration for the rotation until he proves that he can stand upright without injuring himself?
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
don't worry
he will be replaced by a member of the 4H club by July.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
As frustrating as he is, McCarthy still has good stuff and he flashed some of it this September. If he’s healthy he’s a much better option for the rotation than Matt Harrison or Eric Hurley in the immediate sense.
Not to get uptight about this or anything, but people tend to get so caught up in the McCarthy injury schtick (which can wear a little thin, BTW) they seem to forget there’s a good pitcher who used to be one of the top prospects in baseball somewhere in that telephone pole of a body. And furthermore many of these same people are among the camp advocating that we go sign Ben Sheets to a multimillion dollar deal, so I don’t see why they want to toss McCarthy onto the junk heap just yet. Again, I don’t mean to preach, that’s just something that’s been bugging me for awhile.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 14, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree
The fear I have about him comes with his loss of velocity. If he can regain any velocity, he becomes very formidable. He isn’t just a 5th starter type. With added velocity, the pieces are there.
The darkhorse out there is Nippert. If Maddux can work just a bit of control into that guy, he will kick the door to the rotation down. He has the best pure stuff on the staff. Other than control ("other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how’d you like the play?), what is stopping Nippert from being a top of the rotation guy? He will be in the rotation by June…and that’s a good thing. You heard it here first. Actually, you only heard it here.
Disclaimer…I am 6’7 190. I have a natural affinity for beanpole pitchers. Take it for what it’s worth.
by bigskinny on Nov 14, 2008 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree 100% on McCarthy
As for Nippert though, my bet is he’s working the 8th inning by midsummer. He has the best pure fastball, but I’m not really sure he has enough command/consistency with his secondary pitches to overcome all his competition for a rotation slot. My fantasy is having him and FX2 as the 8th/9th inning 1-2… that’d be fireballin’ time, baby.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 14, 2008 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nippert over McCarthy
I agree that Dusty Tits is a better bet to have success as a ML starter. I stated that very early last year and was roundly mocked.
With Nippert, I can see that he has some building blocks to succeed with if he is able to put them together. With BMac, I just don’t see how he will ever have success unless his stuff/command take a HUGE step forward.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but mccarthy’s stuff/command took a HUGE step back after he became a ranger, meanwile nippert took a step forward
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 14, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
Nippert’s career stats evince great future success with that very hittable 98mph fb that is straight as a string. If he can only work on building his blocks…
by Goyogringo on Nov 15, 2008 12:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nippert
is a perfect example, to me at least, of a guy who may not be able to handle the rotation but is perfect for bullpen work. Let him come in for an inning or two and blow 96 right past guys, mixing in an offspeed pitch every 6 or so times. Holla
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
McCarthy and his good stuff
I haven’t seen it. Hopefully Maddux/Ryan can get him straightened out.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m just hoping he’ll get over his injury so he can post on LSB again…the finger was killing him at the keyboard.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 14, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
hahaha
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 14, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I seem to remember
94/95 on the gun when he was pitching against the Rangers. His curveball can be tough.
He will get shelled at 90. At his height with a long stride 93-95 will look like 98.
Of course, that’s what makes Nippert’s 97 so impressive.
Where did McCarthy’s fastball go? Does he just need the Rick Vaughn treatment?
by bigskinny on Nov 14, 2008 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
las gafas?
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He never had 95 on a regular basis...EVER
Look at average FB Velocity….
2005 61.1% (90.3)
2006 63.4% (90.8)
2007 65.9% (88.9)
2008 65.7% (89.0)
His spike was almost 91 when he was coming out of the pen in Chicago..
A consistent 92 would make his the 26th hardest thrower in baseball, a 93 14th a 94 6th and 95 first.
He might be able to ratchet up a little occasionally but never for more than a few times a game.
And just as a comparison, 9 lives Nippert sits at
2005 75.4% (92.3)
2006 76.8% (92.5)
2007 73.2% (94.0)
2008 68.8% (93.5)
by laxtonto on Nov 14, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for exposing my memories
as slanted toward the skinny guy. I guess stats trump memory. Who knew?
Seriously, though. What happened two that extra 2 MPH when he got to TBIA?
by bigskinny on Nov 14, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching with a stress fracture in his shoulder and Mark Connor
by laxtonto on Nov 14, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
no fan of connor here
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 14, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
connor>stress fracture
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 14, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that
Harrison went 9-3 in his rookie season. Were the peripherals there? No. But he did improve. This is a guy with an impressive K-to-BB ratio in the minors, and once he started walking hitters less, he began striking out more hitters as well, and started trending towards success.
I would put Harrison ahead of McCarthy for now, and see how things shape up
Either way, I would NOT be bitching about having too many starting candidates if two of them were named Sheets and Buchholz
"Calmer than you are... "
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 14, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Doc please end the misery...
and lets put Harrison in the 5 hole and get going.
Sheets/Padilla/Millwood/Buchholz and Harrison with the rest getting ready to go at AAA or the bullpen when the inevitable injuries arrive would be beautiful!
Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!
by pbpsean on Nov 14, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a big Kerry Wood fan
I wanted him last year, but he chose to resign with the Cubs instead. Anybody have any idea what kind of a deal we’d be talking for Wood?
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 14, 2008 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
3/33 might get it done.
There aren’t that many teams in the closer market and there are a few of ’em out there (KRod, Hoffman, Fuentes, Wood) so you might not have to spend an outlandish amount to land one this off season.
Not that 11mm is cheap, but it’s not unpossibly huge or anything, and maybe you could even do it for less depending on how the market plays out.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
Here, he’s better for the marketing dept. than any of those other guys.
by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 14, 2008 6:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Z or whoever else
What would be a reasonable RP target for Gerald Laird?
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 14, 2008 9:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Heilman
comes to mind if the Mets decide they want an upgrade. The Yankees make the most sense, as they have reliever depth at every level of their org. If the Reds decide they love Laird and want to deal lefty Bill Bray, I would take him as a solid piece (but I would want another as well).
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yankees would be a fit
Laird would be a solid backup for them, or takeover full time if they need to move Posada. But are the Mets really a fit? He’d be an upgrade over Schneider but their bullpen is in shambles as is.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 14, 2008 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
true
but they are looking to completely gut it and start over. apparently they are shopping Heilman pretty hard looking for upgrades elsewhere. I think his relationship with the team really soured last year, and he has openly expressed his desire to pitch elsewhere.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Marlins
They might not want to pay Laird’s salary, but Lindstrom and Tankersley are bullpen guys that have promise.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tankersley
is a lefty who, excuse this one, tanked last year. He would be a great “buy low” sort of guy in my mind. A package of him and another intriguing arm a few years away from the 40 might be a decent return, if the club thinks Tank can return to his former efficacy.
by clark on Nov 14, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
former 1st rd pitcher
from alabama btw
i like the idea
tankersley for package including poveda?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 14, 2008 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Penny and Garland
Getting those two would be just fine by me.
Penny
Garland
Padilla
Milwood
Hurley
That rotation would not be so bad….we hope. Certainly better than what we threw out this year for the most part.
by SaltyGoesYard on Nov 14, 2008 9:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I really
like the Penny idea which I have been advocating as well. However, Im not so on board with Garland honestly. This is what I want out of the offseason (in terms of acquistions):
Salty and Laird for young pitching, sign Sheets, sign Penny to an incentive laden deal.
by Michael Cave on Nov 14, 2008 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Those 5 are all Righties
I’d like to see at least one lefty in there, which is why I like Oliver Perez.
by Swamp Fox on Nov 14, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know he's a lefty, but he's not a good pitcher.
Shirley you’d rather have a good pitcher than one who throws with the sinister hand?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why no interest in Affeldt?
He’s a lefty reliever with good stuff coming off a good season in a hitter’s park. I’d like to see the Rangers go after him and Oliver Perez.
by Swamp Fox on Nov 14, 2008 9:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Perez
I dont think they will go after him because Boras is really really over-valuing him. Affeldt could be interesting. As always, just matters the price.
by Michael Cave on Nov 14, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
congrats to our GM re: bradley
nothing for something…
by sam in so cal on Nov 14, 2008 10:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
que?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 14, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling...
it’s a not flipping Bradley at the trade deadline reference. Not 100% sure though.
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 14, 2008 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what I suspect too
Just would like to see some rationale behind it
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 14, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it was in fact a not flipping bradley at the deadline reference.
by sam in so cal on Nov 14, 2008 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
am i going to get an argument that the rangers are better for not having traded bradley when he was at his best and there were teams that needed offensive production?
by sam in so cal on Nov 14, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Make a list that would have traded for Bradley
Hard to make a case for anyone in contention to need a DH that would have been willing to give equal value for Bradley.
Yankees NO
Anahiem NO
Tampa NO
Boston NO
Minnesota NO
Where would he land? He was a trade piece with no real position and therefore no real home, especially with TB and Bos tied in knots with the Manny situation.
by laxtonto on Nov 14, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem may not have been destination
as much as it was willingness on the Rangers’ part. The deadline came at the worst possible time. The team looked like it was ready to make a run. They didn’t trade their most productive hitter when it looked like they might actually get a few butts in the seats.
The big attendance series were still coming. They wanted to be competitive for those series. What are you gonna do?
by bigskinny on Nov 14, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
SHHHHH!!!!
Do not upset the peanut gallery!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish every nothing
would hit like that. Yeah, a real bust to have one of the top 2 or 3 hitters in baseball on your team for less than $6 million.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 14, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
eom ...
He’s talking about the not flipping, not the actual signing.
I’m pretty sure.
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 14, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but
it’s absolutely stupid beyond belief to judge signing Bradley only on whether or not he was flipped. The guy provided MVP level production for the salary of a vet utility man and will at least net a sandwich pick in the draft. Sandwich picks could turn out to be someone like Julio Borbon, Joba Chamberlain, Adrian Cardenas, Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden, to name just a few from recent drafts.
In short, the Bradley signing was nothing short of a home run, slam dunk, great deal for the Rangers.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 14, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
YEP
He was pretty beastly. Shame he won’t be back.
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 14, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm really hoping
with that pick with sign one of the now traditional “i’m a first round talent but want too much money” guys who end up being worth every penny in the sandwich and second rounds. especially when you get them slightly cheaper than you would if you had taken them in the first.
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Nov 14, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
who?
in the hell wants Jennings back?
by icouldusesomebaseball on Nov 14, 2008 11:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I dont know,
does he have an ex wife?
by tyd3311 on Nov 14, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 14, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Question on the 40
If we use Poveda in a trade in the next week, say to Boston, will they have to add him to their 40? How does that work?
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 11:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I believe so.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 14, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bummer
I have a feeling no matter what we do this guy is gonna hurt us. If we keep him and lose Strop, Poveda will bomb. If not, he will thrive. Damn
I think we have to add Vallejo, JMJ (christ i hated that pick from day 1), and Poveda. Strop seems less likely to get drafted, somebody would have to take a flier on a kid like Omar.
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why the heck
would we protect Strop? Every other team had the exact same shot to sign him we had. Every other team also didn’t pull him off waivers. It seems crazy to protect a guy who is 29x passed over in favor of a guy who WILL be RVed if left in the open and has a pretty decent shot at being an average ML pitcher.
by bushe on Nov 14, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree
Protect Poveda and hope he can rebound his control from last year as a starter. If not, move him to the ‘pen and maybe he’s better than Strop. Strop = give a shit? at this point
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Loe and Littleton
ew, gross. Hopefully guys like this will be showing up on the 40 less and less in the coming years
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
littleton wasnt bad for a wihle
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 14, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Silver Slugger headline
“Hamilton’s golden season shines anew”
…wtf?
by MeanMr.Mustard on Nov 14, 2008 12:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hammy
“… shines out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark …”
by shroomer on Nov 14, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
shaft. lol.
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Nov 14, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i can see the author tear up a little after whispering the line to himself
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 14, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heres a video of Beau Jones from Minor league ball:
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 14, 2008 12:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
great quality
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thinking the same thing
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And the Smoak Machine
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i think...
if we are going to go on the cheaper end, oliver perez isn’t a bad option. the mid price range option of burnett is optimum, but i dunno if hicks is gonna spend it. perez is a lefty and young and has shown a little bit of success at the ML level… i honestly dunno what he would cost, but on all the lists i’ve seen him down a little further than the rest. he is coming out of the NL, but young, with some success in the NL East. he could slide in behind padilla and be a nice middle of the rotation this year and after some others develop be a good 4. provide 180-200 innings at a 4.7 – 5.0 era with the move to the AL… he holds lefties BAs around .150 which should play great at the ball park…
he earned 6.5mil last year… so maybe a 4 year – 32mil offer?
i’d rather get burnett but i just don’t think they’re gonna spend the money. and sheets is going to way expensive.
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Nov 14, 2008 12:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
perez
will get more than 32 almost for sure
hell, even gil meche got 5/55…lol
that said, we DO have yet to see how much the economy effects FA
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 14, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Meche
And he was probably a little money-whipped by the Royals who are a dead zone for free agents. Meche has really been a pretty good pitcher for the Royals and I think they made a good deal.
He’s a good comparison because the two are around the same age. I am not sure I love the idea of Perez coming here though. While he does miss a lot of bats, his numbers aren’t spectacular considering his league. He walks a lot of guys and could give up a ton of homers here. At least he strikes a lot of guys, he’s a lefty, and he’s young.
I think we should hold off on signing a Perez type player and let the minors play themselves out. Buy low on Sheets or wait til next year.
"You taste like a burger. I don't like you anymore."
by Heebs on Nov 14, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Correction
They were around the same age when hitting the FA market.
"You taste like a burger. I don't like you anymore."
by Heebs on Nov 14, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Walks and bombs
scare the hell out of me from Perez. We agree!!
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2x that $$ number
Perez is a lefty with a good K rate that has dominated for stretches in the past and has Boras as his agent. Everything I’ve read says Boras has book on Perez roughly the size of Atlas Shrugged and he’s gonna sell him as a top 5 lefty in baseball. Game, set, match. 60 mil guaranteed
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yup
i think some (most?) have perez higher than sheets.
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 14, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I could absolutely go for
A rotation of Sheets-Padilla-Perez-Millwood-Harrison. But I’m not making the decisions or writing the checks. That would perk up the 2009 rotation, and clearly leave growth room for the dozen kids knocking on the door 2010-2012.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Nov 14, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
did anybody doubt that :)
I’m not one to guard hicks’ checkbook but that is just too much money – not feasible.
Plus, you are spending a lot of money on speculation (that perez will get better, that sheets will remain healthy). Too much.
However, Sheets on a short term, I think is worth the risk/reward
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 14, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perez is horrible.
The only reason to root for him to sign here is if you’re looking for the one big huge gigantic smelly pirate hooker of a contract that would finally lead Hicks to fire JD.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His greatest liability
Is Scott Boras. He’s better than you infer (in about a dozne places so far).
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Nov 14, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No he's not.
His peripherals are all shitty and all the advanced metrics have pegged as being shitty and his makeup is universally regarded as being shitty.
I challenge you to prove to me that he’s not a shitty pitcher who would cave in if brought here.
Seriously.
I want to understand your Oliver Perez love, Ed.
Cause I can’t for the life f me figure out how anyone thinks he’s good and/or would be a good fit here.
Help me.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ollie
Perez was a ML ace when he was 23. He’s talented.
I don’t care that much for FIP, but he posted a 3.45 that season – which is better than what Greinke posted last season, as a reference. I don’t know that he will ever be that good again, but that talent is still in there if he’s healthy.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He had one really good season 5 years ago
right after he came up when no one had figured out his rather funky delivery yet and he had yet to become a petulant simple-minded jackass who blows up every time any single little thing goes wrong for him on the mound and he’s never been anywhere close to that good since.
I fail to see the goodness in that.
I can’t think of FA who’d be a worse fit for this team and ballpark, honestly.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you making up the petulant, simple minded jackass part
Or did he really do something to deserve that? I don’t know, I’m seriously asking.
I’ve seen him pitch only very rarely, and I’ve looked at his record and see that he had that huge success and has had control problems and inconsistency problems, but you must know something that I don’t. He has exhibited that he has the talent to be an ace and there aren’t a lot of guys in the league that can say that.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 7:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just mean it in the Chan Ho Park kind of way.
I’ve watched a couple of his starts and the way he just completely goes to hell anytime anything goes wrong is inexcusable, imo. If somene commits an error behind him it’s over. And his body language and general mound temperament always just bother me.
It’s not like he beats the women he impregnates or anything. (As far as I know, at least.)
He’s just a jackass on the mound is what I meant.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 9:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does it make you sick that he's Type A and Board Game isn't?
Also, you underrate Perez. He’s going to be Sandy Koufax.
by philkid3 on Nov 14, 2008 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Going to be?
Already is.
I mean he had a 4.98 tRA in the NL for jeebus’ sake. Did Koufax ever do that? I’m not scientist or anything, but I doubt very much that he did.
I’m coming around to this idea, actually. We need this younger, newer, better version of Koufax on our roster NOW.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 7:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am beginning to be against
any player who is represented by Scott Boras. He doesn’t seem to make many contracts that are beneficial to the team signing his players. He seem to represent a lot of players who get the big payday, and whose productivity goes in the tank.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 14, 2008 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
is there no way
wood could be a starter again? thatd make for an interesting signing
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Nov 14, 2008 1:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Hell to the no.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Burnett
rumored to be offered 4 for $54 from Toronto. We can beat that, 13.5/yr is like what we are paying for Milly and Padz, AJ is wayyyyy better
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 1:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
which is why he won't sign with Toronto
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 14, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
who would you prefer
Sheets or Burnett? Which is cheaper?
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 14, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its a toss up for me
I think both will get about the same money and both obviously have injury histories. Both, when healthy, are legit top of the rotation starters. I wouldn’t go more than 4 years on either of them and both would have clauses built in where if they miss so much time the first two years the last couple years become team options.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 14, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm coming around on the idea of going after Burnett but...
…something tells he’ll be looking for something in the $16-18 million-per-year range given that the Yankees will make a run at him as well.
by chrisR on Nov 14, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good spot.
Great read. WTH is that Gagne lookin’ mofo?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Nov 14, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Foul Territory chimes in
http://startelegramsports.typepad.com/foul_territory/2008/11/its-a-whos-who-at-the-ballpark.html
And a Q&A with Wash:
http://startelegramsports.typepad.com/foul_territory/2008/11/a-qa-with-ron-washington.html
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 14, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
$$$ not there
I think most FAs will bee surprised this offseason. With the economy tanking, I don’t expect many big long term contracts. CC will gets his, Teix may be a little disappointed. INMO.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Nov 14, 2008 2:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Tex rejecting the Rangers
will be his Juan Gonzalez moment…
by JBImaknee on Nov 14, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Not at all, man.
He could beat 8/140 in his sleep.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If the Yankees are not
interested in him, who is going to drive up the price? Teixeira will probably get >$17.5M per year, but, it may be just for 4 years. With the uncertain economy, it is going to be a tough winter for FAs.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Nov 14, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're very, very wrong.
I think the people to suffer the wrath of a down economy are gonna be the average guys. The John Garlands and such. The truly elite guys will still get their money. Any number of teams would go 5/100 for Tex right now, no questions asked. He’s young and he’s that good.
I think he gets 8/160 and that’s minimum. I expect the Angels would do that deal right now.
He could get more.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually agree with you
I was being spiteful and vindictive about Tex.
I do think the number of big spending clubs is probably low right now: the Yankees, Red Sox, and Angels are the only ones I could see paying Tex that money over a very long term. I could see a Baltimore or Washington doing something interesting with deferred money or a shorter length – but they won’t go $20 million / year for 8 years.
I think upper-middle market teams saw what ARod’s contract did to Texas (a similar type of budget club), so they are wary of committing too much to any one hitter, no matter how good. Given the economy, I don’t think the bidding goes too high.
by JBImaknee on Nov 14, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope Teix
signs with the Nats.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Congrats to Josh.
Maybe not as obvious a choice as a lot of people would make it out to be, but still deserving and I’m happy for him.
It’s nice to have someone win an award and not know in the back of my mind “he doesn’t deserve it.”
by philkid3 on Nov 14, 2008 2:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You improve the pen by improving the rotation
There was enough talent in the pen this year, it got torched by the 4 1/2 inning starting rotation.
I do think all the rangers will do is sign a rliever or two, and im not happy about it.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Nov 14, 2008 4:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
talent in the pen
I don’t know. I could live the rest of my life without the Jamey Wrights and Franklyn Germans of the world residing in our pen.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 14, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think your title is a true statement
but I’m not sure about the first line. And having your pitchers go deep into games is a way to improve your bullpen efficiency and keep guys healthy, but it’s really not to my point.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 14, 2008 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Tampa Bay Lightning have fired coach Barry Melrose just 16 games into the season.
by tyd3311 on Nov 14, 2008 4:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
NO!
The Mullet dies!
Good news is, now he can go back to ESPN where he belongs.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Nov 14, 2008 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
that’s the bad news. Of course ESPN is doing their best to ignore the NHL, so we probably won’t notice.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 14, 2008 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This return
was worse than Mike Ditka’s. The guy only made it six weeks into a season as a new coach. You don’t see that every day.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 14, 2008 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't the GM's job come into question here?
by tyd3311 on Nov 14, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It probably will
I couldn’t believe they hired Melrose to begin with, and they were a mess anyway.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 14, 2008 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind
some Jon Garland action assuming we still trade for a young pitcher.
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Nov 14, 2008 7:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Dude.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 14, 2008 9:18 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I refuse
to believe that a pitcher with a career ERA well under 5 is “horrible”. I could care less how many guys he strikes out. It’s all about ERA w/ consistent peripherals. He’s got that.
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Nov 14, 2008 9:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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