Sunday morning things
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 9:36 AM CST
240 comments
There's a decent chance Mike Maddux is going to be the biggest offseason addition to the Rangers this year. If so, we're going to have to hope he has a significant impact on the pitching staff.
Evan Grant writes about Maddux's journey from major league pitcher to pitching coach, and his work with Roy Oswalt.
Jim Reeves has some quotes from Nolan Ryan about next season, and also says that Jose Ceda (whom the Cubs traded for Kevin Gregg) was the guy the Rangers wanted for Marlon Byrd last spring.
The Braves say that the price for Jake Peavy was too high, and thus they are out of the bidding. The Cubs aren't offering enough, and the Astros have nothing to give. With choices dropping, could Peavy re-consider coming to Texas?
Peter Gammons has some notes on the Rangers:
The Rangers are setting a high bar for any of their catchers in a trade. The Tigers found the asking price on Gerald Laird too high, and Boston wouldn't part with either Clay Buchholz or two out of the Justin Masterson/Nick Hagadone/Michael Bowden trio for Jarrod Saltalamacchia. Nolan Ryan is intrigued with Kerry Wood, but to afford Wood, the Rangers will have to deal Hank Blalock.
The Tigers don't really have much to give for Laird, I don't think.
But on the second part...is this really how far the Rangers have sunk? That they can't afford both Hank Blalock and Kerry Wood? I've long held that the Michael Young contract extension, while bad, isn't crippling because the lack of other big contracts, and my belief that the Rangers would raise payroll for the right players at the right time, would keep Young's deal from inhibiting the Rangers from making other moves. But if this is the mentality that we are now dealing with -- that we can't have both Blalock and Wood, for example -- then I may have to re-think that.
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We're still going to have
4 catchers at ST aren’t we?
by Ryin A on Nov 16, 2008 9:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
It's early...
I hope we don’t have to “settle” for a package of players for one of the catchers just to lessen up the jam. I don’t think JD would do that. But, if we could trade one relatively soon for a good deal, then I wouldn’t hold out because then we can shop another catcher and get top value without worrying that we “have” to trade one of them.
by slimshadty12 on Nov 16, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I say screw Boston if they won’t even consider two out of those three for Salty. I do think Boston will come around but I think the Rangers will have to add a little to even think about Buchholz.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 16, 2008 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
JD
had better not over play his hand. I might do a Salty-Masterson deal. If JD wants Bucholz, he needs to give up more than Salty.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Nov 16, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally...
…I think expecting two of the Bowden/Masterson/Hagadone group for Salty is asking too much.
However, you also have to remember, who do you think is feeding Gammons this info…the people from Boston, or the people from Texas?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well, seeing how he is an uber red sox fan
he’s making it up.
he kinda does that sometimes.
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 16, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe...
…that he’s just making up that the BoSox wouldn’t give up two of those three guys for Salty.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no
about the asking price. funny PG doesn’t know who JD asked Detroit for, but he knows for SURE it’s too high. My guess is that PG is trying to put enough bogus info out there to drive away all other teams so JD has to trade with the Sox.
please.
and the fact that they won’t sign wood without trading blalock, more lies….he still can’t get over Hicks signing arod.
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 16, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I lost faith in Gammons years ago.
This is one of his more played out shticks.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 16, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is why I think it is Theo sending a message through PG
Theo probably gave him the ballpark of what the Rangers were asking for, or said “this is the type of offer we would say no to” and Gammons filled in the rest.
The one thing I know from over the years is that Gammons has no source in Texas. His reports are always one-sided and wrong. So he’s inferring from things like Blalock’s contract value and Nolan’s comments about payroll that Wood means trading Blalock. There is no additional insight there at all.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
x
The one thing I know from over the years is that Gammons has no source in Texas
Well, not since October 4, 2006.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yay!
I still sing “ding dong the witch is dead” in my head when I think of that day.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 16, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't say it was "too high"
He said the Tigers thought it was too high.
And the Boston comment just says that the Red Sox wouldn’t give up two of those guys for Salty, not that Texas was insisting on that.
So no, I don’t think he’s just making things up, or flat lying. I think that, if he’s writing it, it is because someone within the game is telling him that.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
another spin on this topic
Isn’t it a good thing that the discussion of what Boston is giving up is on this turf, as opposed to
“The Rangers want Bowden or Masterson, but the Red Sox are insisting they include someone else in the deal”
I could easily see the discussion moving in that direction – the fact that it is going the other way is very encouraging, if you think about it.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Concur
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 16, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
that the fact that the Rangers are asking for two of those pitchers means that, for example, the Red Sox would give up Masterson straight up. We already knew that they would give up Bowden for Salty, and the questions were – would we want him as the lead piece, and who can we get for the second guy. I suggested last week that Hagadone was an intriguing second piece to counter the sort of boring Bowden. This tells us that they wouldn’t give him, and it makes you wonder if they’d do Bowden and Bard even. I don’t find it particularly encouraging.
We’re where we’ve been on this since like last year, which is why I’ve said that I don’t know if anything can get done with Boston. Each side seems to get the shaft if you move the deal a little one direction or the other. I think that it’s going to come down to whether Texas can find something better than Bowden or whether they’d rather have him than stick with Salty.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 16, 2008 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
someone within the game told him the Rangers drafted Vince Sinisi because they like Scott Boras and NOT because of scouting…
i think he needs a new someone.
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 16, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't recall Gammons saying that
Do you have a link?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, he said that
it was on his ESPN blog after that draft. i’ve referenced that quote many times on here…
if you don’t believe me, ask Z, i think he still remembers that…
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 16, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
Gammons is just communicating a message from Theo to JD. He knows nothing more than what Theo wants him to know.
I agree that those Rangers demands are probably too high – but they are a starting point. My guess is that that is the Rangers actual price for Teagarden, and they’ll accept something slightly lower for Salty.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's what I'm afraid of...
our boys will make a trade for the sake of making a trade, to get rid of someone to avoid internal bickering bc folks aren’t getting their share of P.T.
Got to have faith I reckon.
by Ryin A on Nov 16, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lamentable, most likely so.
i’m with adam on this part, if it makes too much sense, then its not going to happen.
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Nov 16, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
I see I’m not the only one getting that feeling.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 16, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Surely Gammons doesnt have
a complete picture as I’m sure Texas is willing to include attractive prospects to make a deal work.
by Goyogringo on Nov 16, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
payroll limitations
This is getting frustrating. Wood and Sheets become realistically obtainable, and we can’t afford to get in the mix? That sucks, especially, because as AJM mentions, there is only 1 really bad contract on the team.
We aren’t even hearing the “player specific” party line anymore, the quotes we’re getting just seem to indicate a strict budget with an inflexible cap number.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 16, 2008 9:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I really hate Hicks
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 16, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
somehow, some"here will blame JD though.
he’s doing what he can though nolan and hicks seem to also make him follow through with their wishes from time to time and it undoubtably screws with his plans….
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Nov 16, 2008 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
JD can only do so much when it comes to spending.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 16, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
eh
I love JD. I think he’s a great GM. But if he cannot make a case to Hicks and/or Nolan that this is the year to raise payroll, then it is somewhat on him.
Being a general manager sometimes means managing your owner as well.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would think Nolan would be in a much better position to persuade Hicks to spend money
by Telegraph on Nov 16, 2008 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
but JD’s job is to assess the league and the players available. Figure out if 2009 is a ripe time to compete and invest dollars. Then he convinces Nolan, and Nolan + JD convince Hicks.
It may well be that JD doesn’t think that 2009 is a good time to go for it. I think a fair argument can be made here.
It may also be that Hicks is willing to spend, but he doesn’t want to get played like he was in the Zito dealings.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am sure he does
If he wants to sign somebody like Wood Sheets, it’s going to be a multi-year contract, so it would be very much for the future.
Interestingly, JD said that he wants to look at relief pitchers through FA, but the ones that are known to be any good will probably cost him at least $5 million a year, and if that price is too prohibitive, I am not sure what he has to work with.
by Telegraph on Nov 16, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree to a point
but if you have a owner that is intent on raising ticket prices every year and keeping the payroll the same JD can only to so much to derail that train and open big daddys 10 pounder.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 16, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yet JD didn't have to give
MYoung a 5 year / $ 80 million deal.
What would MYoung command in this market if the Rangers let him play out his deal without an extension?
4 years / $ 40 million?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Nov 16, 2008 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's arguing that.
I think he’s pissed at Hick’s for not willing to step up the payroll in addition to that contract.
You’re not going to find many people defending that extension so you might as well bark up a different tree. IMO, that’s JD’s second biggest mistake.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 16, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BZA,
If JD knew that Hicks was going to suppress the payroll to this degree, it’s his fault for making this deal.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Nov 16, 2008 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
JD, Hicks or even the all knowing Nolan foresaw the current economic crisis. I think that has a lot to do with this sudden payroll restriction.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 16, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Sudden" Payroll Restriction?
I think the “current economic crisis” is just the latest in a long, long line of excuses. As I recall, it was peviously the fault of the fans for not attending the games.
Smile when you call me Beat Weed!
by Clueless on Nov 16, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True. I'm getting tired of the shiny new excuse we get like clockwork every year.
But that doesn’t mean that this one isn’t for real.
Who knows how hard the financial crisis has hit Hicks.
It’s possible JD thought they really were gonna be able to spend this winter only to be told that that was no longer feasible under the current conditions. Though that doesn’t mean it’s any less annoying even if it is true.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 16, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If its that bad
then sell Liverpool or better yet, sell the Rangers
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 16, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's probably still paying people off
that he borrowed from to buy. And he’s probably going to have to hold through and earn more returns until he can pay off all that crap.
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on Nov 16, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He got greedy with Liverpool
he could have sold on them for a huge profit, but figured he’d see an even greater one if he held onto them through the building project, etc.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 16, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to say
The perception out there is that he is still one of the top SS in the AL (which he is). If a team is smart, then that’s about as high as they would go, but I am afraid that somebody is going to offer him a $60 million + dollar contract. With that GG he had just won, $70+ million is not out of the question.
by Telegraph on Nov 16, 2008 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is also why I think he's not untradeable.
The Rangers may not get a ton for him, and may have to eat some (but not a lot) of his salary. But if they wanted to, they could move him to one of the more classically run, non-stat-geek organizations.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he'd get a lot more than that
He’s a gold glove winning, batting title holder who makes the all star game routinely at a high-demand position. He’s overvalued by the league in general, not just Texas when they made the deal.
He wouldn’t get 5/80, but he may well get 4/55 or something.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Haven't you been saying since that deal was signed....
…that Young’s contract is fair and isn’t part of the team’s problems?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like having MYoung on the team
and the fact that he’s going to earn $ 90 million over 9 years means the Rangers will have received their money’s worth from what he has meant to the team both on and off the field. Young more than held up his side of the deal.
You don’t hand out that contract to a SS in his 30’s when you have a small market payroll.
If Young is making $ 16 million for a team with a $ 95 million payroll, it’s not that big of a problem.
Because we have a small market payroll (“almost as high as Milwaukee” Hicks gushed last September) that contract is now a major problem.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Nov 16, 2008 10:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny
Let’s overpay a guy because he was underpaid before…
Hey it all evens out in the end! yay! Just damn that Hicks and his donut making lawnboy.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 16, 2008 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+ 1
well I don’t hate him, I wouldn’t mind bitch slapping him ….I’d feel so much better.
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
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Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 16, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I really hope this is just posturing because I think this is a great FA market to make a play in. There’s several good arms out there and the late season injury leaves a chance that Sheets could end up as a steal. I like the thought of adding Wood to the pen as well.
Now, if this really is the issue, I say we flip Blalock and bring Wood in. I’d say the bullpen is a much bigger issue than DH/1B and I’m pretty fed up with Blalock. It’s pretty clear he doesn’t have a role with this team in the future.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 16, 2008 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
do we think
blalock has any value with at 6mil to someone else?
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Nov 16, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Value comes in health
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 16, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends
If we’re asking for a prospect of value then no I don’t. But I think there are some teams that could be looking to add an impact bat at 1B/DH that would be interested if it was merely salary they were picking up.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 16, 2008 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Certainly enough to dump his contract if we wanted to.
We prolly wouldn’t get a real great prospect in return though, just the $$$ relief.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 16, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then why the hell did they pick up the option?
by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 16, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because
they want him to DH?
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 16, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 16, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My point is
that if all they do with him is flip him for next to nothing in order to get salary relief they never should have picked up the option. They had the chance to get salary relief by telling him “thanks, and good luck.” So it makes little or no sense to trade him unless there’s a return involved.
by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 16, 2008 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
economy
With the economy like it is, attrendance next year will be less than 2008.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Nov 16, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep they raised my season tickets already
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 16, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They better bring in Sheets, then
FFace won’t be enough. That’s for damn sure.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 16, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Selig's Role in Payrolls
Just before the GM meetings, Selig had a video conference with all the GM’s and warned them about the failing economy. A spokesman for Selig summarized the video conference thusly:
"He also talked about our economy and how troubling it’s been, and how we have to operate in a fashion that’s cognizant of that economy."
by Excel Hearts Choi on Nov 16, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess Steinbrenner must have been playing Minesweeper through the whole thing
by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 16, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Steinbrenner was actually
burning 20 dollar bills during that time while wiping his ass with 50s
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 16, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
New Stadium
Not only does the new and improved stadium for the Yankees hold a much larger capacity (especially box seats), but the new lease to the city of New York will now be $10 a year as opposed to $10 million. Also, current MLB rules state that clubs can subtract the debt services for the stadium from revenue sharing. The Yankees will be carrying $51 million in debt services, so even if they go over the luxury tax threshold, they won’t be paying any revenue sharing. There is no incentive not to spend like crazy.
Selig’s comments, for teams like the Rangers, give actual “facts” why spending more is not such a good idea.
by Excel Hearts Choi on Nov 16, 2008 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Link
Here is the link from which I got the above info:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/10/news/newsmakers/yankees_stadium.fortune/index.htm
by Excel Hearts Choi on Nov 16, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Melvin
I really like the guy, but this just comes across as bitching.
Boo-hoo the Yankees are offering too much money!
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 16, 2008 9:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
i was going to comment on that...
Really? Melvin doesn’t understand why the Yanks would make that bid, instead of just going a little over what people have speculated Milwaukee bid?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I think it’s quite obvious what they’re doing. They have roughly $80MM coming off the books and want to blow Milwaukee’s bid out of the water so they can’t even be a player in the race.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 16, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought this was funny
Melvin cries, that the Yankees $140mil/6yr (roughly $23mil/yr) overbid his $100mil/5yr ($20/mil/yr) by so much it’s unthinkable. By his thinking they should’ve gone $110/5yr ($22mil/yr).
Maybe I’ve naive, but is 1 – 3mil yr that much more?
Sounds kind of like the same posturing he did after losing Maddux.
by rcreative on Nov 16, 2008 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Payroll and along that line of thinking...
Is it that JD has conceded ‘09 unlike in the past when we weren’t ready to compete but we’re tried to act as if we were (Adam Eaton, Otsuka)? And if that’s the case, then maybe they are right in not going for any FA and saving the payroll for ’10 and so on.
by slimshadty12 on Nov 16, 2008 9:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the 09 team is necessarily built to compete
But when a TORG like Sheets becomes available and possibly obtainable, I think you have to grab a guy like that whenever you can. I don’t think you can expect that a pitcher the caliber of Sheets will (1) be on the market; and (2) consider Texas as a destination the same exact year that all the other pieces are in place (2010?, 2011?).
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 16, 2008 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Those investments need to be made now, so that things are in place by then.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 16, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Sheets as much as the next guy...
But let’s not get delusional here. 1) We’re not going to get any hometown discounts. 2) Just because Sheets might be “cheap” doesn’t mean that it will be in our ballpark. I don’t think we’d be getting him in here for anything less then 4 years, 80 million with another option or two 3) Sheets has legit injury concerns and is 30 years old…that’s not exactly young so not only are you increasing chances of injury but increasing chances of reduced performance. It’s bad enough that we have one albatross of a contract (Young) but we really don’t have room for 2. With that said you still take your shot at getting him, but let’s not make it like it’s ridiculous if we don’t.
by slimshadty12 on Nov 16, 2008 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maddux...
Maybe we’re getting a little too excited here about the guy, but I have to say when it comes to a coach who preaches the mental approach to pitching versus a coach who will add extra pitches or overhaul a guy’s mechanics (right or wrong), I’m taking the coach with the mental approach. Especially, at this time when we’re breaking young studs in who are getting here on stuff but not necessarily ready for the mental approach to the majors. I want a guy like Maddux showing them the way without messing up their head and mechanics.
I think Maddux and Nolan are a nice combo…confidence and endurance. I’ll take it.
by slimshadty12 on Nov 16, 2008 10:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me...
at ML level you want a communicator at the pitching coach position. Clearly, the pitcher has the ability (generally speaking) to put the ball over the plate. It’s the mental approach that separates the pitchers in the show. IMO, a smart hire with a proven track record of success.
1/20/09 - The end of a error.
by Parman on Nov 16, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree it's just that...
You see so many guys getting arm injuries that there is a place in the game for coaches who think they have to answer to injury prevention and efficiency of the body. So it’s not like all the pitchers coming up have good or even acceptable mechanics, it’s just that I rather fix the head before the body. It doesn’t matter what kind of mechanical changes you make to a pitcher if he’s not ready to accept it (Volquez, McCarthy?, Dominguez etc.)
by slimshadty12 on Nov 16, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
overall it seems the last few years our troubles have come from pitchers that lose their mental edge in the middle of games because of a defensive gaffe behind them or a ball missing the strike zone they thought was in, etc. Joaquin Benoit is a famous example I can remember that if one thing would go bad in a start of his, the world would start crumbling. Seems to have been that a lot the last 5-7 years. I think your mechanical coaches should be the ones in the minors nurturing and perfecting, and the mental coaches should be in the majors.
Stars in a Texas Night Sky, a Dallas Stars blog from a fan's perspective.
by rangers85 on Nov 16, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I too am excited
about the new direction….
If they make it to the bigs 9 times out of 10 they know how to pitch, the difference between AAA and the bigs is the pressure, fans, etc….
I like this hire, but we’ll see.
by Ryin A on Nov 16, 2008 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maddux's mental approach
There’s no better guinea pig than Luis Mendoza.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 16, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That guy has Oliver Perez disease.
“Oh, no. Something went wrong. Hmmm… Oh well. Guess I might as well lose my composure and just completely go to shit.”
Come to think of it I’m pretty surprised E-Cof isn’t more down with Mendoza. Guess it’s the righty/lefty thing.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 16, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I had thought about it
But at least in my perception they are more than just a dexterity difference. Perez is a temperamental, up yours, in your face, and if I am treated badly (PIT) I’ll go far enough south to get a Carta Blanca Superior. Mendoza, OTOH, is all “I didn’t expect this Oh God Oh mamacita, somebody help me, I can’t deal with this”. There are other differences. Mendoza is from a pretty well to do Monterrey background. I don’t know Ollie’s, but would be he’s had more street fights than Mendoza had spankings.
Yeah I know. Hehe. That says more about me, than about them.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Nov 16, 2008 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
/freudian?
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on Nov 16, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pick up your D-cells yet?
It’s Duracell day at RBiA. Hope you’re ready Luis…..
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 16, 2008 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Blalock's Salary = 6.2 Million
Cat’s salary = 4 million
Too bad nobody wants Cat
by Telegraph on Nov 16, 2008 10:04 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why not
trade Cat along wtih Salty to Boston for just Bowden. Make it kind of a salary dump instead of wanting the 2nd prospect.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not sure if either Texas or Boston would be receptive to that idea
by Telegraph on Nov 16, 2008 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
From Boston’s perspective, it amounts to just buying part of Salty. Maybe $4 million is high, but its not that high. Money isn’t that much an issue for them – they’d probably rather keep prospects.
For Texas, it – it looks kind of bad (admitting failure on Cat’s contract, not getting a great return on Salty), but if it amounts to an ability to sign Wood then you can think of it as Salty + Cat for Bowden + Wood – good deal to me.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well..
For Texas, I think the idea of a team hamstrung by a $4 million contract, to the point where you have to compromise on your trades to shed it is kind of silly. If we can believe all of the rumors floating around, it’s clear that JD wants more than Bowden for Salty (and probably another useful piece), shedding the $4 million should not be a valid replacement for that piece.
For Boston, if it is true that you can’t even get another team to pick up Cat’s contract (and give him away for free), then they might rather just pay $4 cash instead of having another player around.
by Telegraph on Nov 16, 2008 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The 40 man roster
Boston’s roster situation is even worse than the Rangers. You can bet that the last thing they want is to do a 1-for-2 trade that requires that they make space on their roster. If they did the Masterson for Salty+Cat deal, they would simply waive Cat when he arrived. An equivalent trade would be Salty for Masterson + $4M.
by spurdynasty on Nov 16, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stupid question
How much of that 4 mil. do we have to pay him if we terminate the contract? Does anyone know how that works exactly?
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 16, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
$4M
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 16, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, thx
That sucks. I thought I’d read somewhere that we’d only have to pay him half the contract, but it looks like that was way off base.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 16, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nah
its baseball – you can’t get away with anything contract wise. It isn’t like football where contract values are just figures grabbed from the air with no meaning. That contract may as well be a treasury bond… its as good as gold for Cat
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ooops, that was a reply to Telegraphs origional post
Not that it matters, really.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 16, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, it matters.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 16, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would rather...
salary dump Millwood and Blalock to a team and sign Sheets and Wood. I think JD should make both those guys good offers and if they sign then dump those two to whoever will take them.
I also wish Cat could be moved, but that may not be likely.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 16, 2008 10:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for salary dumping Millwood.
Call Detroit and tell them they can take Millwood and his contract off our hands and I’ll give you Laird as well. We’ll throw in two boxes of donuts as well.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
after that deal goes down
Dombrowski: “hey JD, the two boxes of donuts never showed up”
JD: “what? I sent them with Laird”
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 16, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 7 recs
Reccity reccity reccity!
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 16, 2008 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
continued
JD: “I don’t know what to say. I put one man, five tools, and two boxes on a plane to Detroit.”
Dombrowski: “well what showed up here was two boxes and several tools short of that.”
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 16, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
hahahaha
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 16, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why on earth would we want to salary dump Millwood?
He’s our best pitcher and he’s signed at a pretty reasonable price.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 16, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tigers
Moreover, why would a team who is already trying to shed payroll (the Tigers) want to be on the receiving end of a salary dump.
by Excel Hearts Choi on Nov 16, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because...
3/4 years of Sheets >>>> 1/2 years of Millwood.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 16, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.
He’s our best pitcher
I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.
We’re really in bad, bad shape.
by Athos on Nov 16, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Very true, but...
the optimist in me thinks that this team is only 3 players short of being a real playoff contender, a #1, a #2, and a dominant reliever. Position player wise we’re in good to great shape, and I think that when guys like Hurley and Hunter can’t crack the rotation, then the bullpen will become a real asset as well. And going along this trail a little further, 2 of those 3 necessary pieces are in our system and appear to be near ready. Which, kinda explains why I’m bummed about this talk that there is no budget room to add a guy like Sheets – him, Holland, and Feliz could transform this team.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 16, 2008 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy or Oswalt?
Maybe the Rangers and Stros should work together to get Peavy to Houston.
Oswalt to the Rangers
Pospects to the Stros
Peavy to the Stros
Go Rangers!
by rooster on Nov 16, 2008 10:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I love Oswalt.
But I’m a little wary of him for some reason. But he’s one of my favorite pitchers in the league to watch, so I’ll get over it.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
He’s getting older and less outstanding. I sure wouldn’t jump for joy if we unloaded some critical pieces for Oswalt.
To be sure, though, he is still outstanding, and I would love to have him.
by brettgardner on Nov 16, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting idea
But what do the Padres get out of the deal? The Astros really have nothing to offer them for Peavy, unless they flip some of the guys we give them.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 16, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IIRC
Oswalt was almost an Oriole a few years ago until Houston found out that he was going to be dealt to Texas, in which case Houston vetoed the deal to keep Oswalt from Texas. Do IIRC? I know I remember hearing it, may have just been a rumor though, the feeling around here, atleast to me anyways is meh when it comes to the Stros…I’m really not that concerned with them one way or another, I figured they felt the same way.
by groundingout on Nov 16, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Astros
don’t want to replace Oswalt with Peavy, they want to pair them together.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 16, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That team is so screwed
They want to build a contender by trading for big pieces instead of signing a lot of expensive FAs but don’t have the trade ammo to get any big pieces. I’m clueless how they think that it will all work out for them.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 16, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wood
I for one am glad the Rangers can’t afford Kerry Wood.
"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn
by DaheelzCM on Nov 16, 2008 10:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Because
I think signing Wood would be a mistake. I don’t really like signing any relievers to big deals and I really don’t like signing pitchers with the enormous injury history that he has. It’s just too risky in my opinion.
"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn
by DaheelzCM on Nov 16, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do relievers get huge deals?
They’re so inconsistent from year-to-year that JD should be able to throw together a reasonable offer, imo.
If not him, someone similar should be obtained.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 16, 2008 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Since Wood will be marketed as a "closer"
he very well might
by Telegraph on Nov 16, 2008 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Some relievers do
And I think Wood might be one of them. I might be wrong on that but as you said relievers are so inconsistent I don’t want any part of it.
"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn
by DaheelzCM on Nov 16, 2008 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wood
Really has been consistently good his entire career. Seems odd to think he’d turn into C.J. Wilson or something.
Injury concerns I understand, but you’ll very rarely find a guy in free agency who is free of warts.
by brettgardner on Nov 16, 2008 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mediocre and merely good relievers are inconsistent from year to year.
The real dominating guys like Wood don’t fall into that category.
The only question with him is health.
Though that is one freaking huge question when it comes to him.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 16, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So what is a big deal?
If the Rangers offer Wood 3/25 and Sheets 3/50 with a 4th year option are those deals too big?
I think that would be the most I would go on either, but those offers at least need to be made imo. If they aren’t accepted then so be it.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 16, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Neither offer would get it done...
All I have to say is Barry Zito…you think Sheets is only going to get 3 years, 50 million guaranteed? And Wood will get his 10 per year min…otherwise why would Chicago already say no to him?
by slimshadty12 on Nov 16, 2008 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Injury history...
Both have a significat injury history which I think will bring down the offers that teams are willing to give them. Again, if that isn’t enough then fine, I wouldn’t go much higher.
But the offers need to be made.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 16, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed offers need to be made but...
Since when do injuries REALLY get in the way of FA. Especially for pitchers. The point is, if Sheets doesn’t have injury concerns then you don’t think he’s getting Sabathia money right now? And do you think his injury concerns compared to what Sabathia is perceived to be health wise, is worth a decrease of almost 100 million!
Sheets will have tons of players because of his perceived easy target status and he will get his money. You can bank that (pun intended).
by slimshadty12 on Nov 16, 2008 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Too much for Wood
There is no way I would give him that much. I just don’t think he can physically hold up enough to warrant giving him that much money. He will likely get that much or more but hopefully it’s someplace else.
I might be ok with that deal for Sheets but I doubt he would accept it.
"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn
by DaheelzCM on Nov 16, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maddux doesn't need to work miracles.
If the staff can improve from dead last to 10th in the league (similar to what happened when he went to Milwaukee), it would mean, in last year’s numbers, that the staff runs allowed would’ve been 781. A 901 runs scored, 781 runs is a .571 win percentage, which is a 92 win season.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on Nov 16, 2008 10:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
With these guys?
That seems like a miracle.
by brettgardner on Nov 16, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You know
I think this sudden refusal to sign anyone to big deals is coming out of fear on the Rangers part. They’ve made so many signings they could do without in the past few years (Millwood, Cat, MY) I think JD/Nolan/Big Daddy are reluctant to sign a large FA deal right now because they’re too afraid of being burned. All the big-name FA’s they’re looking into carry a sizeable amount of risk with them, and I think the front office is unwilling to take that risk right now.
That doesn’t change the fact that it sucks, but that would seem to be the logical explanation (other than simply saying Hicks is cheapskating it again).
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 16, 2008 10:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I very much agree with this post
The Rangers have had HORRIBLE luck in free agent signings, particularly with pitching but really with everything.
It does seem ironic that people are clamoring for Millwood’s contract to be dumped yet sign Ben Sheets – who has far more concerns than Milly had when JD signed him. The last time the Rangers went out and signed a bunch of Type A relievers (val Poppel, Powell), all we got was a lousy draft with no picks. Cat and MY’s contracts are weighing down the club. Even the guys Hicks tries to sign but misses out on fail spectacularly (i.e., Zito). Its no wonder the guy is a little gun-shy
I don’t think money is an issue as much as what you are saying – the fear of spending badly. Not signing a free agent stings for 4 months until the season starts. Signing a bad one stings for many many years.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Here's what I don't get
Why is there so much “We could sign Sheets if only Hicks weren’t cheap” talk?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 10:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I will never consider Hicks "cheap"
bad at making baseball decisions? Maybe. But the guy signed ARod. He isn’t cheap.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a lot of us (me included) are assuming
1. that Sheets would seriously consider pitching here because of the Maddux/lives here factors. Most FA SP don’t even seriously consider it.
2. the length of contract that Sheets will be able to get falls into line with what seems reasonable ~3-4 years.
3. the pitcher has a chance to thrive here. His peripherals suggest that he fits the profile of a pitcher that would be less influenced by the ballpark than most (ie, keeps the ball out of play, doesn’t give free passes)
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 16, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the thing...
I think Sheets, at his age and in his situation, is either going to want 5 years or will want 1 year.
And if he wants 1 year, he’s not going to come pitch in the A.L. in a hitter-friendly park with a bad defense behind him.
I don’t understand why anyone would believe he’d take 3 years $40 million, or something like that. Carlos Silva got 4 years, $48 million last year, for goodness sakes.
Now, I could be wrong, and it may be that in January, no one is willing to give him the 6 year, $100 million deal he really wants, and he doesn’t want to take a one year deal, and he’d be willing to talk to Texas about a 3 year deal (although then I think the annual salary is in the $17-19 million range).
But that seems unlikely.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How high would you go for Sheets
on a long term deal.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 16, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then why smack down other's ideas
If you don’t have an opinion?
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 16, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Because it doesn't matter how high I'd go
It matters what Sheets is going to do.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well that's what we do around here right?
None of us know what these guys are thinking…..it’s speculation.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 16, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can make reasonable assumptions
I mean, we could speculate that Manny Ramirez might sign here for 1 year, $1 million, because it is a great hitter’s park and he might break the home run record here.
That’s extraordinarily unlikely, though.
Similarly, expecting Sheets to sign a 3 year deal at $13 million per year or so, and to switch leagues and come to a losing team while switching leagues and going to a hitter’s park and having a bad defense behind him, seems quite unreasonable to me.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
So you are of the opinion that Sheets will get what he wants (a 6 year deal according to you) despite his injury history?
IMO a 6 year deal for him is unreasonable when you factor in his injury concerns and the economy.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 16, 2008 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he'll get a 4-5 year deal
At $16-19 million per year.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not a 3 year deal with a vesting option?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 16, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he takes a 3 year deal with a team option
Even a vesting one.
Not unless the money on the front end is $20 million plus per year.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And how could you give that guy 20 million
4/72 … yay or nay?
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on Nov 16, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Would I do that if I were Texas?
Yeah, probably. Of course, it would necessitate raising payroll, even if you dump Padilla or Millwood somewhere else.
And I’d be surprised if he took that to come to Texas. I suspect a better deal, or a similar deal from a more attractive team, would be out there.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I suspect a better deal, or a similar deal from a more attractive team, would be out there.
But I would still like to see Texas make that offer, from a fan’s perspective.
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on Nov 16, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd do that
And flip Millwood or Padz
But I’m pretty big on Sheets.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 16, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I’m thinking 4/72 is my sticking point for him.
It’s 4 years and 180 IP of that guy is more than enough, which I think he could likely give us in 3 of his prime seasons.
It’s $18M per year, which is more than FFace’s extension annualized.
4/80 is where the injury thing makes you shake your head a little bit, imo. That’s just $8M difference that could be used elsewhere or used to make the padding on the outfield walls the same color.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 16, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Magglio Ordonez
I wonder if a team could use Magglio’s contract as a template. Give him a 5 year deal that can be voided after one if he spends 25 or more days on the disable list with recurrence of the arm injury that kept him out to end the season. The list of team’s willing to go 5 with him has to be pretty short.
by tyd3311 on Nov 16, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
with our budget
i don’t see how we could make any serious long term offer for a front line pitcher, because if he gets injured the franchise is crippled for years. We’re being outspent by the A’s. How many long term pitching contracts have they handed out?
by SteveP on Nov 16, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Guess I'll take the bait...
Because we assume that if Hicks was willing to take the team’s salary up to around $90 million, that we could then go out and be a player in this free agent market. It would “we could sign sabathia”, but even at $90 million per year, I’m not sure there’s enough wiggle room in there to pay for a bad player later in his career (which the Yankees can do). So, given the need/desire to restrict years and the want/lust of an “ace”, that leaves you with Burnett and Sheets. Both of those guys probably won’t sign contracts for longer than 5 years, and Sheets could be had (although you don’t agree) for less since he has a greater injury history.
That answers why Sheets, I think. If Hicks had the salary higher, we could afford Sheets.
by GhettoBear04 on Nov 16, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't understand the question either
are you saying we shouldn’t say this because sheets is an injury risk?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 16, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When you have the number 5 market size
and your team plays in a relatively new ballpark yet your payroll is roughly equal to the KC Royals and $ 10 million below the Milwaukee Brewers…the owner of your team is cheap.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Nov 16, 2008 10:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
He dropped the line...
Don’t bite…this one has potential to go nowhere and receive 100 posts…don’t do it!
by slimshadty12 on Nov 16, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how can the rangers afford brad penny
but not kerry wood?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 16, 2008 10:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
1 year deal possibility
JD’s favorite.
by tyd3311 on Nov 16, 2008 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Brad Penny would really do that
or just take a discounted long term deal
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 16, 2008 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because Penny sucks when he's hurt...
Unlike Wood so no one is going to pay him what Wood will get. His BB/K ratio is not something we should be pursuing anyway.
by slimshadty12 on Nov 16, 2008 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cat
Is there ANY team that could be interested in picking up his salary for a bag of balls? I honestly can think of anyone, but I’d love to clear that $4MM and the spot on the 40….
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 16, 2008 10:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Unfortuately he's not an asset in the outfield...
Which kind of makes it hard to convince any NL team to acquire him. And his bat doesn’t play for a DH so there’s not much value in the AL either. 4 million for a bench bat is a tough pill to swallow.
by slimshadty12 on Nov 16, 2008 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps...
back to the Blue Jays?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 16, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If it came down to it
I’d dump Cat if we ran the risk of losing a golden child to the Rule 5….I’d eat the salary, but that’s just me.
by Ryin A on Nov 16, 2008 10:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Cat
I just thought of an increadibly evil idea.
Can we sell him to Japan?
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 16, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Player has to agree.
I doubt at this stage in his career Cat would agree to something like that.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 16, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Darrell Rasner apparently just did, so you never know. I’d at least ask.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 16, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Darrell is in his prime
with no real future in the Majors.
by tyd3311 on Nov 16, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
He also has no guaranteed deal and wasn’t even arb-eligible. He has the ability to make more money in Japan than he would here.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gammons
“Nolan Ryan is intrigued with Kerry Wood, but to afford Wood, the Rangers will have to deal Hank Blalock.”
I can’t bring myself to believing that there is any truth to Gammons’ statement. If this was true, why did the Rangers exercise Blalock’s option? Especially if they had found no trade interest in him.
I realize that the Rangers plan on taking a conservative approach this offseason, but I still look for JD to bring one or two guys in on one year contracts similar to Lofton, Gagne, Bradley, Jennings, etc. Wood might have a hard time getting more than one year, and I’d be all for bringing him in on a one year, incentives laden contract.
by Randy Richardson on Nov 16, 2008 11:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
That's what Wood got last year...
on a hometown discount…he’s about to get really paid.
by slimshadty12 on Nov 16, 2008 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wood
No doubt he’ll get paid very well for 2009. I do have some doubts as to how many, if any clubs, are going to be willing to give him multiple years considering his past injuries.
by Randy Richardson on Nov 16, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, if Gammons is accurate,
can the Rangers afford to risk offering arbitration to Bradley? What if he doesn’t get an offer to his liking and accepts?
by Randy Richardson on Nov 16, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that scenario is taking it overboard.
by tyd3311 on Nov 16, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I think Gammons is full of shit. Although I wouldn’t be hugely surprised if they didn’t offer Bradley arbitration simply because they internally decide they don’t want him back. The demand for Bradley could be very lackluster.
by Randy Richardson on Nov 16, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They would probably love him back
on another 1 year deal. The problem is he doesn’t want to accept a 1 year deal.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 16, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley
They probably would, I was just speculating that they might not. As for Bradley, I think he has said they he wouldn’t play rather than accept a one year deal, but that’s just posturing. What team is going to offer him a multi-year deal? Maybe the Blue Jays?
by Randy Richardson on Nov 16, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can see a lot of teams interested
His bat makes a good bet anywhere IMO. I’m sure he is more attractive to AL teams so he can DH and be less injury prone, but NL teams could still view him as a solid OF who is now a year past having major surgery.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 16, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley
I just don’t see any NL teams willing to offer him a multi-year deal considering he’s played 78 games in the OF over the past two seasons. In the AL, Tampa Bay could be a good fit, but I don’t think they have the funds to do a multi-year deal. The Blue Jays seem like the most likely, especially because Ricciardi needs to field a team that at least plays some meaningful late season games to get himself off the hot seat.
I have a feeling that 20+ teams think of him as “toxic” and wouldn’t consider him at any price.
by Randy Richardson on Nov 16, 2008 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if
an NL team would offer him a multi year deal, but I definitely could see them offering him more money for one year than accepting arbitration would pay him. As for AL teams that could be interested, there are a few places I see making sense for both sides. Minny could definitely use the offense. The Angels could go after Bradley to make up for losing Tex. Toronto has a use for Bradley. Tampa Bay, too if they decide to open up their wallets a bit. I also wouldn’t rule out Baltimore.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 16, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seattle is looking for a DH as well
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 16, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
x
there’s no precedent for the Twins doing that sort of deal. The O’s are a wildcard, not sure what exactly their offseason plans are.
by Randy Richardson on Nov 16, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers definitely offer arbitration.
Gammons doesn’t know what the Rangers budget crisis is. He’s just relaying his interpretation of what we here all heard last week.
by JBImaknee on Nov 16, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley on a one year deal seems like a pretty easy dump in the middle of the winter.
Don’t think there’s a big risk of us being stuck with Milt.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 16, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure.
His non-hitting factors seem likely to keep almost all teams away from him at this point.
by Randy Richardson on Nov 16, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For a multi-year deal, sure.
But my thinking is if he was looking for a one year deal for around 10mm there’d be plenty of teams willing to roll the Antonio McDyess.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 16, 2008 7:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Release Cat, please
Wasting a roster spot and costing money. Mistake, move on.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 16, 2008 12:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It isn't costing money
At least, keeping him on the roster isn’t costing any more money than releasing him would.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 16, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand the money part
but to me it’s money already spent and he just clogs up the roster.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 16, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
its called sunk costs.
sometimes you gotta just cut bait.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
by red shoe ranger on Nov 16, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cat
If Blalock gets hurt, who DHs?
I know that’s down the priority list a ways. I’d rather Max didn’t have to move out of a daily catching routine.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 16, 2008 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boggs, Murphy andor JMJ.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 16, 2008 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cat
Cat should be tradeable at this year’s trade deadline. He’s a valuable piece for a contending team (especially in the NL). Not saying that he’s going to bring much of anything back but it would at minimum net the Rangers some cash savings.
by Randy Richardson on Nov 16, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cat
Im all for dumping Cat. But for everyone who wants that to happen do yall realize that simply dumping him isn’t going to allow us to go out and sign someone else right? As long as we still have to pay him we aren’t going to be able to go out and spend the money. Just wanted to make sure people realized that.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 16, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whos gonna take his spot?
Do you really want some young guy sitting on the bench and getting 100-150 ABs over the course of the season?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 16, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They don’t need to carry anyone specifically in his spot. They will have a four man bench, one of those being a catcher. The other three spots need to cover for MI, 3B and OF. Those guys could easily something like Duran or Arias and the two out of this group who aren’t considered starters: Byrd, Murphy, Cruz, Boggs. They don’t need Catalanotto on the roster. And if you’re going to complement Blalock and/or Davis somehow, it should be with a RHB, not Catalanotto.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 16, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not advocating keeping him by any means
But if we can’t get another team to take him and his contract i would just as rather keep him and not have a young guy rotting away on the bench. Just thinking about what our roster will look like
8 starting position players
DH (Blalock)
backup catcher
4th OFer
utility infielder
12 pitchers
I don’t want Boggs as that 25th man because he wouldn’t get much PT. If Arias is our utility guy then Duran needs to be in OKC. I don’t agree we need to compliment Blalock with a RH bat. The only reason you do that is if Blalock is going to platoon. I don’t see the Rangers platooning Hank. If they want to sit hank against a tough lefty I think they simply slide Hammy to DH and play that 4th OFer.
So my point is I would rather have Cat as our 25th man on the roster than a young guy who could be developing in OKC. And if we release him and still have to pay his salary then why not let him sit on the bench. He doesn’t complain about lack of playing time, hes a good clubhouse guy apparantly.
Now if keeping him on the 40 man meant losing a guy like Poveda or something then yeah release him. But I don’t think we are going to be in that position.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 16, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But that's the point
It will cost you someone else. I’d like for them to drop Metcalf, but even if they do, he’ll be replaced by a Blake/Crede type. You may not value a couple of the other relief arms, but I would be willing to bet that when all is said and done, especially next spring, keeping Catalanotto will force them to expose someone most of us would rather they not.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 16, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
Really the only guys I see in danger of being exposed at Cats expense are Loe, Littleton, or Arias
Of those three only Littleton would bother me if we lost him and kept Cat. Loe has a big bag of nothing and we have utility IF candidates besides Arias.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 16, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would it makes sense
to let Arias go so you can keep Catalanotto for one more year?
by Brett Perryman on Nov 16, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The only reason you would drop Arias to keep Cat
Is to protect someone from the rule 5 draft. Your not gonna drop anyone off the 25 man to keep Cat because he doesn’t have a position. If you drop Arias you still need a utility IF. I was referring to if rule 5 comes along and we decide we want to protect Poveda and Strop and need one spot open. In that case it wouldn’t really bother me if they dropped Arias to make room because Duran can take his role as a utility guy on the 25 man.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 16, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
I think it would be a waste to open the season with Cat and Blalock on the 25 man roster.
by Randy Richardson on Nov 16, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tigers think the price is high for Laird?
I wonder what would be considered high, I guess Bonderman. Would anyone on here do a Laird for Willis deal?
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. Back to Suckville with a loss to FLA ATL but whatever, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-9 baby!
by sprite on Nov 16, 2008 1:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 16, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Point taken.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. Back to Suckville with a loss to FLA ATL but whatever, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-9 baby!
by sprite on Nov 16, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Globe is floating a Robertson/Willis for Lugo rumor.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 16, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
payroll flexibilty
It’ s a good thing AROD opted out of his deal and then resigned with the Yanks so that Hicks could save some cash and improve The Rangers……
I hope attendance drops to 2 million……
anyone defending Hicks and his payroll must have an office underneath Tom Hicks’ desk positioned right between Hicks’ legs……
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
by red shoe ranger on Nov 16, 2008 1:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
"I hope attendance drops to 2 million……"
it already did.
by Randy Richardson on Nov 16, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yikes
1.9 million last year…..
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
by red shoe ranger on Nov 16, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 16, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s a decent chance Mike Maddux is going to be the biggest offseason addition to the Rangers this year.
We still have the Winter Meetings, Pops…
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 16, 2008 1:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The trades beter be damn near miraculous.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Nov 16, 2008 3:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Back to Boston...
Is anyone else surprised that they (and others) are interested in a guy who is really poor defensively and has yet to hit MLB pitching consistently? Is the pool of catchers in baseball that weak?
II Cor. 4:17-18
by TedFord on Nov 16, 2008 5:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
No
Rangers fans, at least people around here and that I talk to, way overreacted to Saltalamacchia’s struggles as a 22/23 year old catcher in the majors.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 16, 2008 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And if Buchholz
was a Ranger prospect, many here would be calling him a bust.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 17, 2008 7:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
Funny how fans are always toughest on their own, no? Expectations can be a funny thing…
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 17, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Concur...
Sadly.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 17, 2008 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nolan Ryan's comments..
I was so excited and drawn back again to the excitement of the upcoming presents of new Rangers that would be under the tree this year. I was excited last year, but without pitching, I new we were headed down that scary path once again. So, I thought that maybe, just maybe Hick’s would open of the bank and bring the Rangers fan some hope. Well, after reading NR’s comments on our dim outlook of adding anything of value and pretty much going with what we have, I have almost puked again, with flu like symptons, thinking of OUR pitching staff. We are a large market player that pays like small market. Ok, I am not telling any of YOU readers anything new. I am just saying, how much more can WE take? I went to 3 games last year from 20 the year before. I am sure I am not the only one. I’m trying to be positive here, but I am fading fast.
Dead to last if we stick to that pitching cast! Later!
by Tonster on Nov 17, 2008 12:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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