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JD asking for the moon for Salty

Gammons had this to say...

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/11/gammons-latest.html

 

  • The Rangers apparently wanted Clay Buchholz or two of Justin Masterson/Nick Hagadone/Michael Bowden for Jarrod Saltalamacchia.  The Red Sox aren't biting.
  • The Rangers would probably have to trade Hank Blalock ($6.2MM) to make room for Kerry Wood.

I understand you should sell your players high and then meet somewhere in the middle on a deal.  To expect Buchholz for Salty straight up is ridiculous though.  I think JD might screw this deal up.  Just trade Salty and someone else (not a major piece) for Buchholz already.  The longer JD waits, BOS will just go in a different direction.  Clay is the one guy that I want over ANYONE else we could possibly get.  If we can put a package together to get him while keeping Teagarden, you need to jump on it.

 

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I'd also like to add

that we have a bunch of pitchers in the minors already. We need quality and not quantity. Getting Clay is more important than 2 of Bowden/Masterson/Hagadone.

by Coolbean04 on Nov 17, 2008 9:42 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hagadone

has a pretty high ceiling himself, just isn’t going to be ready for a while.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

If they put Hagadone in, figuring the medical people have given him a close eyeball, I’d accept less than Buchholz in the package.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Nov 17, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BA scouting report on Hagadone

In case you haven’t seen it, he is Boston’s #3 ranked prospect on their newest list.

6’5" 230 LHP

Background: Hagadone allowed five earned runs in his pro debut and none since. The bad news is that he blew out his elbow on an awkward delivery in his third start of 2008, leading to Tommy John surgery in May.

Strengths: Hagadone’s stuff took off after the Red Sox got him to make his delivery more compact and stop rushing toward the plate. His fastball sat at 95-97 mph the day he got hurt, and his slider showed more power and depth. He quickly picked up a changeup that he throws with good arm speed, fade and sink. His work ethic leaves the Red Sox with no doubt that he’ll regain his stuff.

Weaknesses: Hagadone’s health is obviously the biggest concern, but he was throwing four months after the surgery and progressing so quickly that Boston had to slow him down. His command wasn’t as advanced as his stuff, and command is often the last thing to come back after Tommy John surgery.

The Future: Hagadone is on target to open 2009 with one of the Red Sox’s Class A affiliates. He projects as either a frontline starter or a dynamic reliever, and Boston’s needs will dictate his future. He might have earned a big league cameo at the end of 2008 had he not gotten hurt.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

geez

you really think JD didn’t ofer some other pieces? The issue is that Boston doesn’t want to give up Buccholz at all.

and this has been brought up many times over the weekend

""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley

by ab03 on Nov 17, 2008 9:44 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I apologize that it was said over the weekend.

I didn’t see it since I watched football all day. This article was recently added to MLBtraderumors.com so I thought it was a new story that hasn’t been talked about.

by Coolbean04 on Nov 17, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

JD does seem to overvalue his players a bit, IMO. But I think you’re right, BOS doesn’t want to part with Buch if they don’t have to.

That said however, I think JD should go all-out to get him if he has to (with the exclusion of Feliz, Holland, Main, Davis and possibly Andrus I’d give them anyone else they wanted).

"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311

by lonestarJon on Nov 17, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bowden

It’s going to be pretty frustrating if he turns out to be a valuable ML starter. Boston has apparently tried to deal him to us twice and we just don’t seem interested in him at all.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 9:55 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Bowden and Bard

for Salty. I would still be very okay with that.

by clark on Nov 17, 2008 10:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

'Gree

"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311

by lonestarJon on Nov 17, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

that’s where I think the deal is, right around that line, if both teams can stomach that. I’m not positive that the Sox would kick in Bard, but just something in that range. I don’t think that the Rangers have wanted to do Bowden straight up, and I think that the Red Sox have been willing to, so it’s somewhere around Bard as the second player that they would have as the dealing point.

I’m not sure if I’d do it. Probably depends on what else I could get.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd go after Hagadone, plus either one of those two

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would rather know..

..what, in addition to Salty,’ it would take to get Clay.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Nov 17, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude

It’s going to be something like Feliz. They aren’t going to take window dressing with Saltalamacchia for Buchholz imo.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well until

I hear something more official, I’m not just gonna settle..

Salty, NeRa, and Lemon may get done.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Nov 17, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Alright

I’ll leave it alone. There is no way for me to prove what I’m saying is correct. Rest assured, JD will try to do what you’re suggesting. He’d be a total fool not to.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Im just not sure

That many people would trade Feliz for Buccholz straight up, at this point.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Nov 17, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying they should

I know you know this, but I’m saying that the difference in Saltalamacchia and Buchholz as principles is too great to be made up by adding guys from your 11-25 range of prospects to even the deal out. You may just think that Buchholz has seen his value drop significantly, and if that’s the case, we just disagree on that key factor. I haven’t seen any reason to think that it has. His stuff is still there, and he’s obviously shown the ability to get major league hitters out when he’s right.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 12:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But Salty's value has dropped significantly?

36 JARROD SALTALAMACCHIA, c, Braves
Wrist injury led to an off year in 2006, but he’s still the game’s best catching prospect
Opening Day Age: 21. ETA: 2008

51 CLAY BUCHHOLZ, rhp, Red Sox
His fastball hit 97 mph at the end of last season, and at times it’s his fourth-best pitch
Opening Day Age: 22. ETA: 2008

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Nov 17, 2008 1:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No

You have it backwards. You’re quoting a previous year there, but Buchholz was the #4 prospect in baseball this spring. That eclipses any value Salty has ever had.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But

We don’t know where Salty’ would have ranked if eligible, at least ahead of Andrus..

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Nov 17, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if he dominated in the minors

instead of getting called up and struggling in the Majors, do you think he would have been that far off from Buchholz? Maybe he wouldn’t be number 4, but I could see him being pretty high in those rankings.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 17, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

I don’t know that it’s worth debating much further, but look at Buchholz’s numbers and think about the fact that he came up and dominated even more in the majors, including throwing a no-hitter in his second start. To that point, all he had done was dominate, and his stuff is great.

To ask what a guy’s ranking would have been if his team had kept him down at _ level is a really hard thing to gauge. I suspect that he could have been top 20, but he would not have been regarded in the same tier as Buchholz, period, imo.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't really disagree with that assessment

of where Salty would rank, but consider the team’s specific needs. Boston has SP and can easily afford to go get another veteran starter through FA to fill out the bottom of the rotation if they need it. What they need is a catcher for the future.

And for all that Buchholz did in 2007, his performance in the Majors in 2008 was terrible and his peripherals in AAA weren’t too outstanding.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 17, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But it's pitching

I don’t think having good pitching is a great reason to trade pitching excess. Buchholz has the potential to be their number one starter ahead of Lester and Beckett. There are other ways to get a catcher and certainly other catchers better than Saltalamacchia that you could get at the right point in time. Why not trade for a stop-gap and pick your spot for a better guy (like an established guy headed toward FA) if you’re going to give up so much?

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is another way of asking, how far is the dropoff between Saltalamacchia/Tea/Max/Laird and other offerings?

And to believe Gammons’ blog, Boston’s crossed Laird off the list because pitchers “don’t like to pitch to him.”

If they want a stopgap apparently some catchers still qualify as slumming it, and they’re pretty good defensively.

I may be overestimating how illiquid the catching market is.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Nov 17, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the catcher market is

totally dry, unfortunately. I hope they decide that we’re their best option, of course. The O’s will need to move Ramon Hernandez. I don’t know that Martin or Iannetta are completely out of the question, especially if you’re going to start talking about people like Buchholz. I don’t see a lot of point in the Giants hanging onto Molina for too much longer, really, though his deal does run out before Posey is a factor.

I just don’t think we’re the whole market, even for young guys.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

Here’s one for the conspiracy theorist. Gordon Edes – special to Yahoo.com – has a column out about what a great wave of young catching talent there is in baseball. Isn’t that just a tad convenient?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AsRxE0E3oGkJC2aJXgMR6e0RvLYF?slug=ge-catcher111608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Edes also throws out the idea that seems likea fallacy to me, that Boston is looking for a catcher…if they don’t bring back Varitek.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we should get EG

to write an AP article saying how there is no young catching in baseball outside of Texas.

A little tit-for-tat exaggeration

by JBImaknee on Nov 17, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

which is why

it is very important that we try to do anything outside of including Feliz or Holland in a push to acquire Buchholz for either Salty or, if all else fails, Teagarden

"Calmer than you are... "

by Walter Sobchak on Nov 17, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Potential is a dangerous thing

Salty also has a ton of potential and has a better excuse for not performing well so far (the Rangers mishandling him).

Also, if they think Salty can be an instant impact for the team, they’d take the chance to win another WS at the risk of losing a pitcher like Buchholz. As great as he can be, they still can replace him without much of a problem and not lose too much, even if Buchholz turns out to be an ace.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 17, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Buchs no hitter

I think people are putting waaaaaaay too much stock in that. It was great don’t get me wrong. but there have been lots of mediocre pitchers throw no hitters. It doesn’t necessarily mean anything with regards to future performance.

His 2008 season was bad. Saltys was bad. The argument could be made that Buchs was worse than Saltys. I think they both fell to around the same area rankings wise.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 17, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No one

believes he’s a good pitcher just because of the no-hitter.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 17, 2008 4:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

People throw that around alot like that makes a huge difference. I can’t tell you how many times I have seen someone say something along the lines of…“Why would they give up a young pitcher who has thrown a no hitter”.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 17, 2008 5:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course Salty's value has dropped

Why would you suggest that it has gone up? He had a mediocre year – that never helps your value.

Had Salty stepped up and made it clear he was the best catcher in Texas, showed that his defense was progressing, and confirmed that he’s one of the top catching prospects in baseball, then yeah – maybe his value would have grown. But then again, maybe not – because all that was already priced into his value when he was ranked #36.

Instead, he was so-so at the plate, mediocre at best behind it. He whined about having to split time with Laird. His value didn’t go up, and if anything went down a bunch. I’m happy that even a Bowden or Masterson is being considered.

by JBImaknee on Nov 17, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

in fairness to the player

he mashed at AAA and probably would have been best served by staying there the majority of the year.

If Salty had continued to rake at OKC instead of being called up to caddy for Laird, his value would likely be quite a bit higher. That’s on JD, he mishandled the situation.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But Teagarden.

GREINKE HO!!!!!

by oc on Nov 17, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well

I thought at the time that keeping Laird around really didn’t serve a purpose. And looking at it now, it still appears that keeping Laird helped Laird’s value, but Salty’s value suffered because of it and the whole convoluted mess is probably a net loss for the Rangers.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, as I recall

The same time Salty was mashing in AAA, Tea was sucking ass in AA. Tea actually might not have made it to OKC this season had Salty not been called up – but it’s MaxRam who wouldn’ve been the real victim there, since he wouldn’t have seen hardly any time behind the plate.

"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311

by lonestarJon on Nov 17, 2008 9:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough

I’m not judging Salty as a person or saying he’s necessarily a failure. But saying “if Salty had played AAA all year and did well he may be as valuable as Buchholz” isn’t the same as him actually doing it.

The truth of the matter is Salty didn’t spend the full season in AAA, he sucked for much of the season in Arlington, and his value isn’t as high anymore. Hoping that things were different isn’t going to make the Sox trade us Buchholz.

by JBImaknee on Nov 17, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But

Couldn’t you also look at it as Salty didn’t get sent back down to the minors after being called up whereas Buch did. Just wondering.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 17, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Buch's value went down as well

There is a reason why he and Hughes are even being suggested now as opposed to last season when they weren’t even a possibility for someone like Johan Santana.

But I am pretty certain that Salty’s fall has been farther than Buchholz’s, and Buch was starting from a much higher place anyway.

by JBImaknee on Nov 17, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

nicely summarized

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 2:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

I wasn’t implying that Salty was gonna fetch Buch, just saying that I think JD mishandled him and his value suffered for it.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Saltalamacchia

Granted this is message board posters, but MLBTR’s consensus prefers Salty because his bat is farther along than Tea’s and defense can be taught.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Nov 17, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you would take

Hagadone and Bard, a guy coming off of TJ who isn’t even healthy yet and who very well may end up in the pen, along with Bard, who is a setup type with good stuff but serious control issues? Because even according to that article they won’t give you Hagadone and Bowden. I’m not even sure they’d give you Hagadone/Bard, to be honest, but you could really come out of that deal with very little if things don’t go just perfect for those two.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 11:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hagadone

To be honest, I don’t know much about him other than the scouting report I posted up above. BA has him ranked ahead of some nice prospects and they talk about him as having TORG potential. He’s a guy that sounds intriquing to me.

I was just thinking that if Bowden is appealing to the Rangers, for whatever reason, Hagadone might be a high risk-high reward replacement for him.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

should say

If Bowden is not appealing to the Rangers.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If Hagadone

hadn’t blown out his elbow and weren’t right in the middle of rehabbing that, with no certainty of what he’ll look like when he comes back, he’d be perfect. But this is also a guy who didn’t consistently show that upside that Callis is mentioning. He flashed it briefly as a pro before going down. If he’d done that consistently as an amateur he wouldn’t have lasted to that point. Hagadone intrigues me for sure. I mentioned him in this discussion before Callis overranked him and before his name was thrown out in the media. But as the lead piece, he’s pretty dicey right now.

And Callis’ ranking of him, as well as his comments, have caught a lot of grief universally. He was extremely cavalier for whatever reason.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what about Almanzar

would he be an acceptable second piece to go with Bowden?

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

but I think you’re going down the right path with names like that. My concern, as I’ve said a few times, is that it’s not like the Rangers are unfamiliar with any of these players, that they haven’t pursued these avenues with Boston at the trade deadline and probably in August, or that much if anything has changed with any of these players since that time (with the exception of Masterson). The only thing I see changing at this point is if one of the teams relents on its demands. And even that probably means one of these Bowden+ deals.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think if Hagadone

was not injured and as good as the BA guys claim he is, then he’d be completely unavailable.

Bottom line, the Rangers aren’t getting a guy with a >50% chance of being a TORG (i.e., Buchholz, Hughes, etc). The Rangers are going to either get a guy like Bowden who has a decent shot of being a solid rotation piece, but not a high ceiling; or they are going to get a guy like Hadadone who has a 50-60% chance of flaming out but maybe a 20% chance of being a TORG.

Its up to JD and the scouts interpretations of the pitchers to decide. If JD thinks “We have a lot of guys with near-term #3 potential, we’ll definitely get enough #3’s out of them to be competitive” then it may make sense for him to go for the riskier pick in Hagadone.

by JBImaknee on Nov 17, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Another thing to think about

Even if the Rangers see something in Bowden that is scaring them away from him, he is the type of near ready starter prospect that could be worth a ton to some other team. Say we get him (plus something else) for Salty, then possibly we could turn around and trade Blalock + Bowden for Sanchez. Or a deal structured something like that, ML player (Byrd, Murphy, Laird, etc) plus near ready starter (Bowden) for a starter that has already been broken in at the ML level and shows promise.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

good point

The Rangers match up with the Giants almost as well as they match up with the Red Sox, and this is the time to buy on Sanchez. Not next year when he finally puts up the ERA in the mid 3’s.

by clark on Nov 17, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

most teams can't trade a pitcher in their rotation

because most teams don’t have anything servicable to plug in that hole. A near ready guy like Bowden (plus a starting quality position player) might allow a team to trade an established starter with the thought of plugging Bowden in the vacated spot in their rotation.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

completely agree

but is bowden seen as having more value than a guy like Harrison or Hunter?

by clark on Nov 17, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

my guess is that Bowden is probably seen as more valuable than those 2

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps

I would put him on par with Harrison and a solid level above Hunter right now, but Harrison does have the advantage of having more ML experience.

by clark on Nov 17, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Bowden

is more highly regarded than Harrison or Hunter. He and Hurley are probably pretty close, though.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i suppose

i may be guilty of looking at everything in terms of fantasy sports, but I tend to “tier” guys, and Hurley, Harrison, and Bowden all seem like middle of the rotation guys. None of that trio strikes me as having the potential to be a TOR guy, and yet all seem pretty sure to have some ML success. So beyond that, it is hard for me to differentiate them, when you scrape away the hype.

by clark on Nov 17, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I just don’t know that I’d tier Harrison into a mid-rotation group. He and Hunter are still back roto for me until I see some reason to think otherwise.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if we did receive that package

I would probably be okay with it. Those are two guys with incredible stuff, and they would instantly become the top two relief prospects in our org. We have started seeing clubs like the Yankees, Red Sox and A’s excel at developing relievers on the farm, and I think that is the one area where our farm lags behind. Granted, there is risk involved, but we are still getting two guys with first round arms and the potential to dominate.

by clark on Nov 17, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

additionally

it begs the question, which would be more valuable for this org: a legitimate late inning reliever or a middle of the rotation starter? I might actually argue that we have more MORGs in the upper levels of our org than LLIRs

by clark on Nov 17, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with this

That’s why I don’t understand everyone around here not wanting Masterson. A heavy groundball pitcher for late innings, kinda like Jamey Wright minus all the suck. What’s wrong with having a guy like that for 5 years?

At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012

by trident on Nov 17, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the problem with Masterson

is that he has “tipped”. his value is established. at this point, you would actually be overpaying for him. the columnists and fans seem to actually rate Masterson on par or above Buchholz in terms of value, and if that is the case, I have no interest in him.

by clark on Nov 17, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the tipping point

right on, very savvy insight IMO.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

tangent:

are you going to get Gladwell’s new book this week? I must be getting old, because I now get excited about Tuesdays for book releases as well as music releases.

by clark on Nov 17, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

New book

what is it and what does it deal with? I’ve read Blink and own Tipping Point but haven’t heard of the new one

At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012

by trident on Nov 17, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i'm on gladwelldotcom

reading about it right now. sounds interesting, as his stuff always does. i’ll probably buy it, put it in the queue, and then read it in 3 yrs

At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012

by trident on Nov 17, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I’m looking forward to it.

BTW, he has great hair.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As we all debated when Masterson's and Bowden's names came up

…in the summer, I’m not sure that I don’t prefer knowing that in a Masterson you have a guy who can clearly help you one way or the other. I do think that’s what Boston is thinking. The only thing about Bard is that it’s not like you know he’s a big bullpen contributor. He’s still kind of boom/bust.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

arguably he has a little less chance of a bust since they moved him to the pen in the minors. Looked pretty good in AA. That being said, he certainly should not be the centerpiece of the deal though.

by Michael Cave on Nov 17, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You couldn't scroll down on the front page and see this already mentioned

Sunday AM things

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 17, 2008 9:56 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if I trust anything Peter Gammons has to say about the Red Sox

He’s probably just Theo’s mouthpiece here.
“Oh, I can’t believe that the child Jon Daniels would ask for so much for the sorry excuse for a catcher, Salta-whatever. He should be happy to get Coco Crisp and middle reliever.”

by texnykazrus on Nov 17, 2008 9:56 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Correction to your post

I don’t know if I trust anything Peter Gammons has to say about the Red Sox

He’s probably just Theo’s mouthpiece here.

by JBImaknee on Nov 17, 2008 10:31 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Buchholz

I think we get him.

If Boston sees itself as a contender these next few years they’ll look to solve their catching vacancy now.

Texas is where you go for that.

The only caveat is it’s probably not Saltalamacchia that gets you Buchholz.

I think it gets done, though. Pitching is their strength, catching is their weakness.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Nov 17, 2008 9:58 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I can't wait

until a catcher is traded, just so we can stop fretting over every rumor.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 17, 2008 10:00 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I've wondered

If Texas will be in a better position to extract maximum value for a second catcher trade, once the first one goes down.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 17, 2008 10:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Fixed
I can’t wait until a catcher Gerald Laird is traded, just so we can stop fretting over every rumor.

Laird is the one we NEED to deal, therefore Laird is the only one I fret about, personally.

"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311

by lonestarJon on Nov 17, 2008 10:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No

the catcher they need to trade is the one they get the best return for and value for.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 17, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

They need the catcher they believe will help the team most. After that, then trade value because you have your starter. I think we have seen that the Rangers value Teagarden the most and seemingly most teams around the league do as well.

by Michael Cave on Nov 17, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Any of those four

are reasonable starting catcher options. I’m sure if they really believe in one of them long term (Tea?) they’ll keep that guy. But to suggest that they somehow must trade Laird is pretty silly.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 17, 2008 4:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think we do need to trade Laird

Or we’re doomed to a repeat of the Laird/Salty platoon in 2009, with whichever young catcher unfortunate enough to be platooned with Laird getting stunted again. Washington has already anointed Laird as his starter for ‘09 – and the Rangers have never seemed willing to move Laird to the backup role irregardless of who was coming up from the minors, so I don’t see how keeping him isn’t going to throw a wrench into the plans for our young catchers at some point next year.

"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311

by lonestarJon on Nov 17, 2008 9:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lets not forget that the 2 postions Bos can potentially upgrade this offseason

are Catcher and maybe 1st base if the Get Teixeria and move Lowell, which looks rather difficult unless it is a salary dump. The rest of the major players in the division stand to make larger upgrades.

NYY with their spending spree of SP and most likely at least 1 more position player.

TB will add a DH/OF and possibly a mid tier closer that will see the most improvement with just age.

Tor has the pitching to compete in that division, they just need a SS and maybe 1 more bat and some health.

Time is on JD’s side.

As teams in their division start making moves, the pressure to get something done at the C position will mount. Most teams have already shown interest in the Texas quartet and rightly so. Any of the 4 are the best on the market, with Schoppach and his K rate and age a serious concern, B Anderson has problems behind the dish and at the plate, Snyder is a Laird clone with worse defense.

Boston could just sit there and do nothing, which is possible in all trade discussions, or even go another direction, but it seems unlikely with their division rivals closing the gap if not surpassing them in the AL East.

by laxtonto on Nov 17, 2008 10:10 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Boston going in another direction

It just seems counterproductive.

Would Iannetta be a big savings over what Texas is asking? Would his talent be superior?

Russell Martin isn’t on the block.

I mean, there aren’t a ton of catchers. Do the deal, Theo, and then move on.

Whatever, it’ll get done.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Nov 17, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly my point

Lets not freak out when you know you have them pretty much backed into the corner.

JD can call back in a few weeks and say.." So I see the Yankees have signed CC and Lowe and Tor has signed Bradley…. You still planning on going in to the season with Tek at C for now and the foreseeable future? Fine Theo, Ill add Poveda to the deal and we can both be happy… "

by laxtonto on Nov 17, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

At this point in the proceedings...

JD SHOULD BE asking for the moon. It’s early. It’s not even Thanksgiving yet. Do you want him to say, “We’ll take Bard and a mid-level prospect!”

Baseball trades are often about who blinks first or a compromise is worked out. You don’t get to a compromise just by starting with the minimum you would accept.

by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 17, 2008 10:27 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I don’t really get anyone being upset if Daniels is asking for a lot. That is exactly what he should be doing, even if it means no deal. You don’t trade a player just for the sake of clearing a spot.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 17, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes!

He would be the exception.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 17, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Its sad when the only new news today is news from yesterday

but whatever.

Like I said there, Gammons quote could very well have been the following:

“The Rangers insist on getting one of Bowden or Masterson for Salty, but the Red Sox are insisting that they include another prospect to let go of one of their future star pitchers” or something like that. Far too many times have the Rangers players been marginalized by the national press like this.

The fact that the dialogue coming from Gammons is on terms that would make us happy is a VERY GOOD THING. This means that we should expect something good for Salty. Maybe not one of those packages, but something more than Bowden or Masterson alone.

by JBImaknee on Nov 17, 2008 10:28 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Masterson and Bowden...

both project as # 3’s. That would be quite the coup if these projections are accurate.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/4/21/446769/prospect-smackdown-justin

DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award

Gossamer 1st Runner Up

Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
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by LAMuscleFag on Nov 17, 2008 11:03 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

There are literally hundreds

of prospects each year who “project as #3s” by any of Sickels, Goldstein, BA, etc. They may be right in these cases, as these guys do look capable of reaching that. But it isn’t exactly all that comforting in and of itself. There are probably 10+ guys in the Texas system who will be “projected” as #3 starters or better by a guru.

Also, what would be quite the coup? We aren’t getting both Masterson and Bowden.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Where would you rank Bowden and Masterson

in our list of pitching prospects, including Harrison and Hurley?

by JBImaknee on Nov 17, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I’d have it something like:

1. Feliz
2. Holland
3. Masterson
4. Main
5. Bowden
6. Perez
7. Hurley, etc

Deep down I think most people would have a hard time dealing Perez for Bowden because of his upside, but I have to check that. Bowden will be higher on most top 100s than Perez (and probably Main).

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

more and more

it seems that comparing upper level pitching prospects to guys still in rookie or A ball is like comparing apples to oranges. Masterson certainly has value because he has shown he can get ML hitters out, at least for an inning at a time, but it seems, at least to me, that Main and Perez have the higher ceilings.

by clark on Nov 17, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

I had imagined that was the case.

If Masterson or Bowden is really that high though – there seems to me that there is no excuse not to trade Salty for one or the other. I agree with you completely that you aren’t going to get a Buchholz level guy for Salty – he never had the value of a top tier pitching prospect, and nothing he has done in the past 15 months since acquiring him has raised his value. That means that at its highest as a prospect Salty’s value was probably not at the top of that list. So getting a Masterson or Bowden is essentially fair value for where Salty was when we acquired him. I don’t think you can say no to that.

So if JD is holding out for both, I commend him for not being bullied. And if he can “compromise” by adding a Bard to one of them in the process, he truly is gifted at trading.

by JBImaknee on Nov 17, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the "coup" would be if indeed..

they turned out to be solid # 3’s. Not if they fell on their faces like a lot of projected # 3’s do.

DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award

Gossamer 1st Runner Up

Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85

by LAMuscleFag on Nov 17, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Heavy.

So you’re saying you prefer prospects to reach the ML level?

Look, don’t go out on a limb.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Nov 17, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

The upper levels of the system in addition to the ML staff is littered with them…

by Goyogringo on Nov 17, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nady for Laird? Pshht.
dianagramr (NYC): Nady to the Rangers for one of their catching prospects perhaps? And speaking of the Rangers, Milton Bradley would look nice in the Mets or Yanks outfield, but I doubt he’d hit it off with the media.

Steven Goldman: You’re not the only one to suggest Nady for a Texas catcher, but I figure the Rangers would say, “Big hat, no cattle.” They’re going to get better offers, even for Laird, who is a good defender but not much of a hitter (IE a pretty good dictionary picture of a reserve catcher). Again, the problem with Nady is that he’s just a stopgap as a starter in an outfield corner… Milton Bradley was probably the best pure hitter in the AL this year. I have no idea where he’ll go. I could really see Joe Girardi rubbing him the wrong way, alas.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Nov 17, 2008 11:54 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

where did this come from

literally and figuratively?

by clark on Nov 17, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BP chat.

Hey, Ranger’s catchers are all the rage…right?

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Nov 17, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+ 1

Ranger catchers are the new black. Everyone wants one!

DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award

Gossamer 1st Runner Up

Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85

by LAMuscleFag on Nov 17, 2008 12:03 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

meant for Rodney

DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award

Gossamer 1st Runner Up

Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85

by LAMuscleFag on Nov 17, 2008 12:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

good god

I will bet you $1000 dollars that atleast one catcher gets traded… where do you get your logic??

by Baseball North on Nov 17, 2008 10:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

has anyone else heard this

from some random guy in the comments section at MLBTR:

The thing that makes me nervous about Buchholz is that his personal life seems to be mirroring Craig Hansen’s to a startling degree. Both were highly valued prospects who got themselves into a lot of trouble overpartying. The results for Hansen are already pretty clear, I’m just hoping Buchholz doesn’t fall apart in the same way. There’s a difference in claiming you’ve realized the error of your ways and actually doing something about it.

by clark on Nov 17, 2008 12:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Then bring him in ASAP.

HH could use a party buddy.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Nov 17, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Z sometimes it's just meant to be

"Obama is a Christian - He's always been a Christian...But.........what if he is[a Muslim]? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that's not America." Colin Powell on Obama/Muslim assertions.

by AirJordan on Nov 17, 2008 12:29 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Well duh.

He’s a big fan of Arrested Development.

"Obama is a Christian - He's always been a Christian...But.........what if he is[a Muslim]? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that's not America." Colin Powell on Obama/Muslim assertions.

by AirJordan on Nov 17, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want him on my team anymore

That babyface doesn’t look like a guy I could trust.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 17, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

GREINKE HO!!!!!

by oc on Nov 17, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

now he just looks like

one of those things from Ghostbusters

"Calmer than you are... "

by Walter Sobchak on Nov 17, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bucholz

looks like a guy I had fisticuffs with in middle school. I think if he came here I’d have to pad my TV on the days he pitched otherwise I’d end up with bloody knuckles.

by bushe on Nov 17, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

When I was in 2nd grade

I got in a fight with Roger Staubach’s son. It didn’t turn out well for me.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Nov 17, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hah

That’s a pretty good story to have in the bag.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he didn't polish you off with..

a Hail Mary punch I hope?

DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award

Gossamer 1st Runner Up

Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85

by LAMuscleFag on Nov 17, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why pick up the option

if the choice was keep Blalock or sign Wood? Because some beat writer says it’s either or it must be? Come one save us, please.

by Hull Fan on Nov 17, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I think this is newspaper guy logic striking again.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's basically agreeing with you

They wouldn’t pick Blalock over Wood, so presumably either the writer is wrong, they may trade him, or what pbpsean said is the case and they just didn’t know Gregg would go to the Cubs.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The point is fairly straight forward

This is not a either or situation. Cutting/trading Blalock doesn’t mean we’ll sign Wood. Just as not doing so doesn’t mean we won’t. Some writer saying we’d have to get rid of Blalock to get Wood because of money is not a factual statement. It’s opinion and without some kind of substantiation just throwing thoughts on the wall to see what sticks.

by Hull Fan on Nov 17, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Teagarden for Buckholtz

I graduated from UT. Lived five minutes from Dish-Faulk and saw plenty of games Teagarden caught. No one questions his defense but there are legit concerns about his health and his bat. I love Taylor but not enough to say no to Buckholtz. Make the deal JD, keep Salty, sign a cheap backup so Max can work on his defense in AAA then by mid year bring him up to backup/DH, after we’ve dealt Blalock at the deadline.

If they pick up Buckholtz then you can deal Laird for whatever, it doesn’t even have to be pitching. If the requirement is they’ll only deal Bucholtz for Teagarden, you have to make the deal. Salty is by no means a bad consolation prize going forward.

by Hull Fan on Nov 17, 2008 3:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I played against

him in HS several times. Threw a bullpen to him once or twice as well. Best receiver Ive ever thrown to. That is saying a lot considering the quality I threw to in college. As a pitcher it is so nice when that catcher sets up right on the corner and the target looks so damned big. He was a good hitter in HS, average in college, and then up and down as a minor/major leaguer. You can see a few tweaks he has made in his swing.

I simply think you put Teagarden on the untouchable list. We are talking about a future 5-10 time gold glover here. And i dont believe im being too bullish on Teagarden. His offense will be fine. If we are placing such an onus on pitching and defense you just have to keep Teagarden. I can see your argument on Buchholz but I simply think that Teagarden is the real deal and im not sure with Buchholz (makeup issues not talent).

by Michael Cave on Nov 17, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's only true if he's healthy.

And by all accounts he’s had a very difficult time staying that way since college. No one questions Penny or Sheets ability, it’s their inability to stay completely healthy all season that brings their value down. Taylor is the same way. The Rangers have to make a bet, will Teagarden stay healthy or will Salty mature/improve to fulfill his potential. I can see the argument for both sides but I don’t want to settle for the lesser pitching prospect(s) on a guy who cannot consistently catch 120 games a year.

by Hull Fan on Nov 17, 2008 6:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Timing

Rangers had to exercise option before they knew Wood would be available.
No brainer if they knew a little earlier.

Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!

by pbpsean on Nov 17, 2008 3:20 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Central to

the Rangers picking up the option, supposedly anyway, was the idea that people would take him if you don’t want him.

by Brett Perryman on Nov 17, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just find it completely ridiculous that a 1 year 6.2 million contract would stand in the way of anything.

Im down on what the rangers are doing this offseason, but I definitely question the accuracy of that one.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Nov 17, 2008 3:42 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The more i think about it...

the more I like this line of thinking by JD. There is still a lot of time to make a deal and imo JD should be asking for a ton in return for TT, Salty, or MaxRam. If a team wants to settle on a more realistic offer or will only give up a lower level prospect this early then they can have Laird.

In honor of it being rivalry week for my beloved Utes, and their quest to go to a BCS Bowl again, I will be ending every post this week with:

Beat those Cougs.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 17, 2008 5:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

the plan on paper looks good

Keep plugging away at a Salty for Buchholz deal, then sweeten it by replacing Salty with Teagarden and adding a younger arm or if you must, Andrus…could they use a SS prospect? Keep Laird, the better defender, for 2009. IF another team wanted Salty or Max bad enough to give us fair value, trade one – otherwise, hold 3 catchers and either DH Max or have him catch AAA to refine his receiving. At worst, you’ve got a good defensive catcher that hits well in a platoon and can help along our young starters, a very patient offensive catcher backing him up or starting ahead of him with upside behind both the plate and at the plate, and then you have Max at DH that can catch in a pinch. Trade Millwood or Padilla for a future 3B or OF prospect, start the other with Buchholz, Harrison, McCarthy and Hurley, put Feldman back in the pen and allow our younger starters to fluorish. Call up Hunter and Diamond to the pen after half a year, call up Holland if we lose a starter to injury or after half a year in AAA, call up Feliz when the roster increases, and roll into 2010 with Buchholz, Holland, Feliz, Harrison, McCarthy/Hurley (alternating righties and lefties…) and a dominant pen with Frankie, CJ, Benoit (if he’s still around), Madrigal, Diamond, Hunter or even Kiker and Feldman in long relief. I would say that could be an extremely exciting team to watch, and with an infield of Smoak, Kinsler, Andrus/Free Agent and our return from the Padilla/Millwood trade at 3rd, and an outfield of Murphy, Borbon, Hamilton, Boggs and Mayberry/Cruz, I think that could be a very competitive team for years to come with more prospects approaching on the horizon.

"Calmer than you are... "

by Walter Sobchak on Nov 17, 2008 5:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Where are...

the 16 million dollar man and Chris Davis?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 17, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

exactly.

Davis is hard to place…I wonder if he excels at 1B if we keep him there and move Smoak to 3rd…is that an option? or is he traded in a package for a Greinke type? or do we put Young at 3rd, Smoak at 1st and Davis to outfield/DH?

that’s the hard part of the equation

"Calmer than you are... "

by Walter Sobchak on Nov 17, 2008 5:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If Michael Young moves to third, that leaves Davis to either play first base or DH.

But, Justin Smoak is our first baseman of the future right? He’s the better glove and a switch-hitter.

And Max Ramirez is our DH / C, Mickey Tettleton-hybrid of the future, right? And, a right-handed hitter.

So… move Davis to an already crowded outfield?

Trade him now… before we start platooning him somewhere and ‘f’ up his value along with everyone else’s.

GREINKE HO!!!!!

by oc on Nov 17, 2008 6:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Smoak isn't ready now

and may not be ready next year. There’s no telling how his development will go. You don’t trade Davis until you have to. Besides in a year his value may be even higher.

by Hull Fan on Nov 17, 2008 6:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly...

Let’s say Smoak is ready by the start of 2010.

You don’t think Davis’ value will be any higher if he plays a solid 1B and hit 30 bombs with a near .900 OPS? I think there is a very stong probablity that Davis’ value will be higher after this season. There is no reason to trade him or even think about it ’til Smoak is ready.

Beat those Cougs.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 17, 2008 6:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Justin Smoak -1B – Rangers
   
2008 first-round pick Justin Smoak went 4-for-4 on Friday and is batting .389 in the AFL.

Smoak is 14-for-36 with a homer. A polished first baseman out of the University of South Carolina, Smoak could be capable of holding his own in Double-A next year. The Rangers might not be that aggressive initially, but Smoak will likely make them move him up the ladder pretty quickly.

Nov. 8 – 2:12 pm et

So yeah, that’s how his development is going right now.

GREINKE HO!!!!!

by oc on Nov 17, 2008 6:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Key words: may be ready for AA

Davis is NOT being platooned in 2009.

We need his production in 2009 with bradley gone.. who can you really count on in the offense besides kinsler and hamilton, who are both injury concerns to some degree? Davis is next on my list.

The 2009 offseason is when it needs to be revolved and a lot of things will become clear. Does andrus succeed and make it sure that MY is moved for 2010? Smoak keep it up? Davis elevate his value by putting up a 35 HR season?

We have plenty of pieces to trade this offseason. If Davis is the demanded key piece in a trade for a young semi-proven legit pitcher, then you may have to do it. But otherwise, the rangers would be better off letting it play out for another year. 2009’s issue is at catcher, not 1b/dh.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Nov 17, 2008 8:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that sounds pretty good Walter..

definatly Max at AAA. Hanks going to be doing most of the DHing. We gotta put up with Lumpy another year? ugghhh…I’d try and unload him too, put Salty behind the plate full time, let him build his value back up and then unload him at the end of the year. Hopefully Max will have learned enough in that year at AAA to take over in 2010.

DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award

Gossamer 1st Runner Up

Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85

by LAMuscleFag on Nov 17, 2008 6:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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