LSB Community Prospect Project: #1
by thedirkatron
on Nov 18, 2008 4:24 AM CST
260 comments
That's right ladies and bitches: It. Is. On.
It's finally time for everybody's favorite meaningless off season community exercise: The Lonestarball Community Prospect Project. These are always interesting, and the discussion the votes generate is often more fun than the voting.
For those of y'all who are new to the LSB CPP party, it's pretty simple: Over the next month or so I (TheDirkatron) will be running a series of daily polls asking you to vote for the prospect listed on the poll you think is the "best", with the winner coming off the poll and being added to the master list. It's a fun way of taking the community's pulse when it comes to who's who among our young talent.
Again: This vote is to determine how the LSB community would rank the players currently in the system. I've listed any guy I thought could possibly be considered a threat to be our top prospect.
Since we're likely to go at least 30 deep this off season I want to get through these as fast as possible. I'll try to leave each one up at least 24 hours and then get right into the next one, with no run-offs. If a vote is close, then a vote is close.
So please check in daily if you don't want to miss a vote. (I can't stress this enough... these are gonna go by quick, so if you wanna be part of the voting funnage, make sure to check in every single day.)
For a frame of reference, here is the top 25 list we came up with during the summer:
1. 1b, Chris Davis
2. RHP, Neftali Feliz
3. RHP, Eric Hurley
4. SS, Elvis Andrus
5. C, Maximiliano Ramirez
6. 1b, Justin Smoak
7. RHP, Michael Main
8. RHP, Blake "C-Wun" Beavan
9. C, Taylor Teagarden
10. LHP Kasey Kiker
11. OF, Engel Beltre
12. LHP, Matt Harrison
13. OF, Julio Borbon
14. LHP, Derek Holland
15. RHP, Tommy Hunter
16. RHP, Wilmer Font
17. RHP, Neil Ramirez
18. LHP, Martin Perez
19. OF, John Mayberry, Jr.
20. RHP, Thomas Diamond
21. SS, Marcus Lemon
22. RHP, Warner Madrigal
23. 2b, Jose Vallejo
24. 2b, German Duran
25. LHP, Robbie Ross
And... well, that's about it.
Polls are open, So please vote in the poll at at the bottom of the fanpost!
Oh, and if you're one of those bug-eyed weirdos who likes to spend his (or her) time perusing past CPP lists (cough, Zwyica and Brian Thomas, cough, cough), here are some links just for you:
Couple of last minute notes:
* If you're wondering why your fave "prospect" is M.I.A. (like, say, Chris Davis or Matt Harrison), it's because we're using the BA criteria of only listing guys who did not exceed 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched at the Major League Level.
* Feel free to tell me if there's a guy you want to see added to tomorrow's list. I live to serve.
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I'm going for Derholl.
My feeling regarding his k/bb ratio are well known.
I’m in love with it.
Or at least in lust with it.
It’s so pretty.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on
Nov 18, 2008 4:30 AM CST
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Ditto
and I have a gut feeling that he is slightly more likely to reach his potential than Feliz, at least as a starter, so he gets the nod.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Nov 18, 2008 9:54 AM CST
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That's exactly why I voted the way I did...
…if Holland becomes a solid #2 or better starter and Feliz is a lights-out closer I would rank Holland as more valuable.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on
Nov 18, 2008 2:32 PM CST
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I would take
outcome every time. I just love that it seems like there is such an internal competition with these guys. It is like everyone of these guys wants to be the best guy but also wants everyone else to succeed.
by Michael Cave on
Nov 18, 2008 4:53 PM CST
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Tempted to go for Smoak
but that combination of lefty and sexy, sexy k:bb ratio just gotta do it.
by jonthefon on
Nov 18, 2008 4:41 AM CST
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Alright dirk
It’s about time you stopped lusting after K/BB ratios long enough to construct these polls again, dude. ;)
I’ll continue the Holland luv here with my vote. My thing with him is not just the incredibe K/BB line, it’s his aversion to the longball – just three HR given up all season long, and only one came after moving up from Clinton. A strikeout/low BB pitcher who doesn’t give up the longball… I dream about having one of those in our rotation.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on
Nov 18, 2008 5:45 AM CST
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Tough Call
…but I voted for Mr. Happy. I keep going back and forth between the two but Derek Holland coming out of nowhere has made me go with Feliz today at least.
Either way you can’t go wrong.
by TRanger on
Nov 18, 2008 6:29 AM CST
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Not necissarily a reply to you
But to the whole “out of nowhere” knock on Dutch – remember, Neftali kind of came out of nowhere this season as well. People had a little bit better idea that he was capable of this before the season started, because of that big fastball, but 2008 was still a breakout season for both guys. So that knock is a wash, IMO.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on
Nov 18, 2008 7:48 AM CST
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feliz
KG at baseball prospectus liked him a LOT
holland was much more “out of hte blue” than feliz
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Nov 18, 2008 1:49 PM CST
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To expound
Martin Perez jumping from where he is now to where Feliz is over the next year would be similar to what Feliz did. What Holland did is more like a Richard Bleier becoming one of the 10-15 best pitching propsects in baseball in a the next year.
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 18, 2008 2:10 PM CST
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I shouldnt have voted 2 minutes after waking up
I saw smoaks name and clicked on it for some reason. Oh well, Smoak is good too =)
Feliz over holland for me though.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on
Nov 18, 2008 6:42 AM CST
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If Feliz loses by one vote he's sending some guys to your house.
Hired goons, presumably.
Neftali prefers the personal touch you only get with hired goons.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on
Nov 18, 2008 6:45 AM CST
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Gotta go with the golden arm.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on
Nov 18, 2008 7:05 AM CST
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Which one?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on
Nov 18, 2008 7:35 AM CST
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101.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on
Nov 18, 2008 8:53 AM CST
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Holland
more advanced secondary stuff.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on
Nov 18, 2008 7:23 AM CST
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spurdynasty's
prospect pants are goin crazy right about now I bet
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on
Nov 18, 2008 7:30 AM CST
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You have no idea
Bless you, Dirkatron. You made my day.
For me, this vote is about the TORG’s.
A statistical comparison of their 2008 seasons reveals:
Pitcher – Age // Level // ERA // K/IP // K/BB // GB/FB // WHIP // BAA
Feliz – 20 // A-AA // 2.69 // 1.20 // 3.00 // 1.19 // 1.10 // .201
Holland – 21 // A-AA // 2.27 // 1.04 // 3.93 // 1.20 // 1.00 // .209
Main – 19 // Rk-A // 2.76 // 1.11 // 3.61 // 0.75 // 1.11 // .219
Holland had the best ERA, K/BB, GB/FB. and WHIP among the three, though frankly, the three are so close that it is difficult to distinguish them. My rule of thumb? When in doubt, choose the lefty.
OBTW, one of my favorite reads this year was a first-hand account of the single tough game that Holland had while he was at Bakersfield. You can read the whole thing at http://forum.newbergreport.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6083&p=111137&hilit=holland+counselor#p111137
Derek Holland, Career Counselor by Kaisersoze
I was at the Bakersfield game last night, the story of course was Derek Holland. Forget the stats, he was dominant. He gave up five runs on two balls that landed less than a foot fair inside the OF lines, but the box score doesn’t tell you the story of that game. Holland was just dominant. His pitches had great movement and he wasn’t throwing that much breaking stuff because he didn’t need to. He struck out 7 of the first 9 batters and got a ton of swinging strikes. I was seriously thinking about a no hitter at that point. I was sitting in about the fourth row right behind the home team (Lancaster, a very good team that is Boston’s Class A team) and the first batter of the game struck out. As he got back to the dugout someone said something to him from the dugout and the batter said something like “Yeah, like I had a chance there”. He was just kind of rolling his eyes like he had no chance of making contact.
The second batter struck out and walked back to dugout slowly and staring at the ground, totally disconsolate. Not a look on his face like “I shouldn’t have swung at that” but a look of “What am I going to do for a living if I get cut from Baseball and have to go back to the DR”. Holland didn’t make that kid question his swing, he made him question his career path.
The second time through the order the Lancaster hitting seemed to take a strategy of laying off swinging and making Holland throw strikes. He did. They did get five runs in the 4th and statheads would point to the classic case of hitters adjusting to the pitcher in the second time through the order, but it really was just a case of balls finding holes. There was a hard hit single to RF and a triple to the wall, but everything else was junk. The runs scored on two doubles that just barely landed fair. It was more a “give up one run” type of outing than the 5 ER in 5 IP that the box score reads.
by spurdynasty on
Nov 18, 2008 8:53 AM CST
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Having never read that before
it’s extremely encouraging, and worthy of a rec if only so other people notice it.
by jwiscarson on
Nov 18, 2008 9:25 AM CST
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New sig.... at least a sig supplement
“Holland didn’t make that kid question his swing, he made him question his career path”
So baller
"At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012"
"Holland didn’t make that kid question his swing, he made him question his career path"
by trident on
Nov 18, 2008 9:36 AM CST
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Spursdynasty..
Once again enjoy your reading your contributions. I am considering doing a fanpost on this topic but we will see. I do like the fact that you are a sabermatrician at his best however you do not dismiss the scouting aspect of the game. Since I played the game for a while and I think at a fairly high level I am more of a scouting guy however the mathematics behind VORP, ERA+, OPS+ and tRA(?) is undeniable and I certainly understand it all (it is actually right up my alley I just havent really looked at it all that much). I rarely like to submit opinions on guys I havent seen personally which is why I am bound and determined to go to a lot of Frisco games this season.
Just wanted to compliment you on the ability to accept both approaches as your insistence on including this first hand account of Holland suggests.
by Michael Cave on
Nov 18, 2008 11:38 AM CST
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Shroom and the magic of internet radio
Like many other posters here, I thoroughly enjoy attending minor league baseball games and would agree that you can learn things from seeing a player in person that you just can’t capture in a stat sheet. I envy your ability to attend Frisco games; I’m in Central Texas and am largely restricted to seeing Rangers prospects when they pass through Round Rock or San Antonio.
One of my favorite things to do during the evenings in the summertime is to hit Shrrom’s site and find a good minor league game featuring a Rangers affiliate. It’s not the same as being at the game, but I find it to be a terrific way to formulate an opinion of a prospect that you can then supplement with stats and/or scouting reports. I’ve never seen Holland pitch, but I certainly feel like I understand what he’s about after listening to 6-8 different radio announcers describe games in which he’s pitched.
by spurdynasty on
Nov 18, 2008 12:29 PM CST
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Kaisersoze is the
Shiznit, although I don’t think he posts over here.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on
Nov 18, 2008 11:41 AM CST
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Let's hope he never does.
He can stay on Newberg, and take LBrooks and Josey Wales back with him.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on
Nov 18, 2008 3:22 PM CST
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Only 40-odd votes so far
But you know, I’m surprised there hasn’t been any votes for Martin Perez yet. Hell, Eric Hurley and Taylor Teagarden somehow have votes already…
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on
Nov 18, 2008 7:58 AM CST
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Neftali Feliz
Ive seen him pitch a few times in person and in all honestly I tend to lean towards players Ive actually seen. That being said I think his worst case scenario is dominant closer….
by Michael Cave on
Nov 18, 2008 7:58 AM CST
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Main
Frankly, the lack of questions about Main’s ability to pitch vs. Feliz questionable 2nd pitch and Dutch’s sudden velo explosion lead me to go with the safe pick. I covet the SP for obvious reasons, and Feliz could be in the pen as a closer. Truly I’m splitting hairs because any one of the three wouldn’t upset me.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
by Parman on
Nov 18, 2008 8:00 AM CST
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Damn can I change my vote?
If Longhorn agrees with me, I must not be thinking clearly. ;)
PS Auto Rec
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
by Parman on
Nov 18, 2008 8:20 AM CST
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MJH on catchers
Speaking of prospects…
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/11/prospect-previews-catchers.html
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on
Nov 18, 2008 8:22 AM CST
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Hurley and Teagarden
How the hell did these guys get votes for #1?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Nov 18, 2008 8:31 AM CST
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Feliz
Probably because I got to see him first-hand in Frisco and still have drool running down my chin.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on
Nov 18, 2008 8:34 AM CST
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Give me the
dik-dik! Whoops, I mean….The Lefty!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on
Nov 18, 2008 9:11 AM CST
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OT
I was searching for a cool lefty image to post in reply here, when I ran across this… whereupon I went over here… apparently, at some point in the last century or so some smartass renamed the game of frisbee “disk golfing”. I did not know this.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on
Nov 18, 2008 9:20 AM CST
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Hmn
Well actually… reading the Wikipedia article, it sounds more like what said smartass did was bring a frisbee to a game of horseshoe.
by JimBonnick84 on
Nov 18, 2008 9:36 AM CST
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disc golf
kicks ass
"LSB: We’re all-scaploading, all the time." -AJM
by BAC on
Nov 18, 2008 11:20 AM CST
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Yes it does!
I am a professional disc golfer, and truly love the game. I live in Charlotte, NC known as the Mecca of disc golf. There are lots of good courses in the metroplex. BTW, it’s the derivation of my profile name (not that anyone asked.)
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
by Parman on
Nov 18, 2008 2:54 PM CST
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What a coincidence!
I’m a professional freeze-tag player.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Nov 18, 2008 2:58 PM CST
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Flashlight tag >>>> Freeze-tag.
Especially when you’re talking about the pros.
The Freeze-tag tour has gotten so commercial and the performance enchancing drug problems are a real bring down.
The Flashlight Tag pro tour is still a purists’ sport.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on
Nov 18, 2008 3:49 PM CST
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I was a two-sport player as an amateur...
freeze-tag and Cowboys and Indians. In the end, I had to do what was best for my family, so Cowboys and Indians lost out.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Nov 18, 2008 4:59 PM CST
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Frisbee golf has a mecca?
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Nov 19, 2008 2:52 PM CST
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Instead of facing east
you just spin and pray.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Nov 19, 2008 3:08 PM CST
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LMFAO
This one of those times you wish you had more than one rec.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Nov 19, 2008 8:26 PM CST
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gagree
I’m not very good but I love playing
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on
Nov 18, 2008 3:29 PM CST
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Dutch for me
He will be followed by happy happy then Main. So many pitchers so little time.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on
Nov 18, 2008 9:29 AM CST
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holland
gotta go with the guy who seems to be the closest to the majors, this is gonna be a fun filled ride with too many good choices
by blalock84 on
Nov 18, 2008 9:30 AM CST
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I'm officially torn
Feliz has the stunning fastball… yet everyone here seems to be raving about Holland… and Main has been ranked over both by a couple respected Ranger farm gurus recently.
This seriously might be a harder vote to cast than the one I made on Nov. 4th.
I guess I might as well bandwagon, and vote Holland. I’m tempted to go Main, but since Holland has the better secondary arsenal than Feliz, and is closer to the majors…
by JimBonnick84 on
Nov 18, 2008 9:33 AM CST
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Main
As Parman says above – there are some questions on Feliz, and Holland kind of appeared out of nowhere.
Right now, to me, Main looks like the full package. Few question marks, has the combination of a long track record and recent success. He’s the one guy who I see on that list and think – this guy can be our #1. I just have a feeling about the guy which I can’t shake. I think Holland can be the strong lefty workhorse our rotation has needed for a long time. I think Feliz could be a superstar or a dominant bullpen arm. But I can see how their rises may stall a bit.
Its tough, but I had to go Main.
by JBImaknee on
Nov 18, 2008 9:35 AM CST
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Feliz
More starts (and more innings) at the higher level.
It’s like 1a and 1b though.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on
Nov 18, 2008 9:35 AM CST
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same here
if they both become “the best they can be” feliz topps holland in my eyes
that said, holland vs main will also be close
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Nov 18, 2008 1:56 PM CST
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I'm going
Holland, Feliz, then Smoak, and it’s really close for me among those three. For the Main supporters, I’m sorry, but he needs to pitch a bit more before I believe his ceiling is higher than those three. I do predict, though, that Main will shoot up the national rankings by mid-season and be a slam-dunk top 50 next winter.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Nov 18, 2008 9:54 AM CST
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Main
Oh I think he will shoot up much higher than that. He will probably be a top 80 or so guy this year based on his stuff and potential. If he puts together a full season and moves up to AA mid summer then I think he would be a surefire top 20 borderline top 10 prospect.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Nov 18, 2008 9:58 AM CST
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Same could be said about Smoak
He just got in the system. On other teams those 4 could be #1 in their systems what a nice problem to have.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on
Nov 18, 2008 10:05 AM CST
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You've seen Feliz and Holland in action, Z
I’d be interested in hearing why you have Feliz over Holland. How close are they in your opnion?
by spurdynasty on
Nov 18, 2008 10:13 AM CST
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It's pretty close for me
and I don’t think that it’s a slam dunk that Smoak isn’t #1 either. But basically I just have more faith that Feliz’s fastball will sustain itself. Neither of them has very good looking secondary stuff, but neither is hopeless. I think I like the makeup of each guy quite a bit, and I like that they can both basically locate their fastball. I just need to see Holland sustain his velocity through the offseason into next year to be confident that it will stick with him. That’s really the big thing for me.
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 18, 2008 11:46 AM CST
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Agree.
I still think of Holland as a recent phenomenon in spite of his fantastic K rate in SPO last year. Feliz’s fastball seems like it’s been that way for a longer time. Thus, Feliz is #1 here.
Even just a few months of 2009 will reveal much about these two players.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on
Nov 18, 2008 1:17 PM CST
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Admit it Z
Holland loses the nod because of his nonlatinamericanousity.
Stop frontin…
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Nov 18, 2008 1:26 PM CST
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which would make you think
that Max Ramirez would get more love. His statistical profile as a future ML masher is very compelling.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on
Nov 18, 2008 10:36 AM CST
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I fully support your championing of MaxRam, Tricer
Of the Rangers catching prospects, he’s the guy that I think is most likely to appear in an all-star game or two.
by spurdynasty on
Nov 18, 2008 10:47 AM CST
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Even if only
because he’s the most likely to have the popular counting stats to get him there.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Nov 18, 2008 11:02 AM CST
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I'd go as far as to say
that there is a chance that MaxRam ends up a more productive ML hitter than either CD or Smoak.
I wouldn’t bet my savings on it, but if you look hard enough at the numbers, it seems that Max is the most complete hitter of the group. If the explosive jump in power seen last year is for real, as I suspect it is, then that, plus his plus plate discipline is a deadly combination in a hitter.
Of course I should be saving this spiel for when Max is actually deserving of going on the list in a couple rounds.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on
Nov 18, 2008 11:07 AM CST
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Bold statement
I wouldn’t go that far but I’m certainly a big believer in MaxRam.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on
Nov 18, 2008 11:29 AM CST
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I'd agree with that
MaxRam’s stat profile suggests someone who can be a dominant major league hitter. Obviously Davis and Smoak have a chance to be as well – probably a higher chance, actually – but there is a non-trivial chance that each will fail and MaxRam will succeed.
I don’t think the Rangers should trade MaxRam.
by JBImaknee on
Nov 18, 2008 11:34 AM CST
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I think he does
It ranked him fifth ahead of Smoak, Main, Teagarden and Holland at midseason. You won’t see him that high on BA or BP.
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 18, 2008 11:48 AM CST
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Holland number 1
If Neftali is a starter, he is number 1.
If he is a reliever, should not crack the top 10
by SaltyGoesYard on
Nov 18, 2008 11:22 AM CST
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not crack the top 10?
Odds are at least two of Holland, Feliz, Main, Beavan, and Perez have more relief appearances than starts in their major league career. At this point it is impossible to say which two will more likely catch on as relievers.
And if Feliz is one of them, and becomes that Mariano Rivera type pitcher whose comp you see bantered about every once in a while, then I’d argue that he’d end up being more valuable than anyone on that list.
by JBImaknee on
Nov 18, 2008 11:36 AM CST
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should not crack the top 10?
please explain? is it just because hes an RP or what
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Nov 18, 2008 1:57 PM CST
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Even as a RP
Feliz can be so dominant out of the pen that he would be in the top 10 even knowing that he isn’t a SP.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on
Nov 18, 2008 2:18 PM CST
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yea
but you know how some ppl are, knock down guys because they are rp
he woul dbe in the top 10 easily no matter what
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Nov 18, 2008 2:22 PM CST
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I vote Holland
due to his more advanced secondary stuff which means his ETA seems like it will occur sooner.
by Goyogringo on
Nov 18, 2008 11:25 AM CST
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wow
Just looking at that list makes me excited! Everyone on that list could easily make it in some other teams top 3.
My vote went to Feliz because I saw him fan 11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXWLfIgc0nA
by mchang4 on
Nov 18, 2008 11:27 AM CST
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Feliz
by a smidgen.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on
Nov 18, 2008 11:31 AM CST
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Holland
Closer to the majors, more advanced secondary stuff, although slightly lower ceiling than Feliz.
by Stephen Rushin on
Nov 18, 2008 11:44 AM CST
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Lovin it..
that Smoak currently only has 4 votes as a top prospect and by all reports looks like a surefire plus major leaguer. Our system is stacked….
by Michael Cave on
Nov 18, 2008 11:48 AM CST
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I went out back
for a Smoak. But Feliz, Main and Dutch all make sense. Heck, I even love to read people pushing for Perez as our top arm.
Rangers’ Top 5 Propects = Scary Good
"Fielding isn't that important" - Save Us 11/11/08
by Haeger Champ on
Nov 18, 2008 12:15 PM CST
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FYP
I was Happy, Main, Smoakin a Dutch.
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on
Nov 18, 2008 8:38 PM CST
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Haha
Kiker with the requisite one vote.
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 18, 2008 12:20 PM CST
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Be my guess
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on
Nov 18, 2008 12:22 PM CST
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He says Main above…
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on
Nov 18, 2008 1:19 PM CST
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missed that thanks
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on
Nov 18, 2008 1:27 PM CST
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Dolt.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on
Nov 18, 2008 12:23 PM CST
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As I recall
this happened last time too (at least in one of the high spots), and I think it was actually someone other than Longhorn.
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 18, 2008 12:33 PM CST
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Nope
http://www.lonestarball.com/2008/11/18/664241/lsb-community-prospect-pro#10106631
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on
Nov 18, 2008 1:17 PM CST
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Getting ready to say
he only has one vote. Man our system is loaded.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on
Nov 18, 2008 12:24 PM CST
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he shouldnt have any
or even be in our top 10, probably not top 12 even
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Nov 18, 2008 1:58 PM CST
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Smoak
I have a feeling we have Tex 2.0 and with the uncertainty that both of the pitchers have (will Holland’s gains sustain, will either develop other pitches) it seems that Smoak has no questions except how many AS games?
by bushe on
Nov 18, 2008 12:27 PM CST
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If he is Tex 2.0
the answer to that question is only 1 All star game in his 5 years in Texas.
by JBImaknee on
Nov 18, 2008 12:52 PM CST
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Minus the douchey-ness
pretty please?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on
Nov 18, 2008 12:56 PM CST
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Smoak is the anti-douche
Very humble, down-to-earth kid.
by jparks77 on
Nov 18, 2008 12:59 PM CST
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Excelante!
Thanks JP.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on
Nov 18, 2008 1:06 PM CST
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oh thank god!
Who wants another Ranger with a face that should be slapped.
Smoak is a dream come true.
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on
Nov 18, 2008 3:02 PM CST
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Seems like a decent guy
in this video – scroll to the Smoak parts
by shroomer on
Nov 18, 2008 3:20 PM CST
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BGL won't like him.
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on
Nov 18, 2008 8:41 PM CST
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The good thing about the Smoak and Tex comparisons
is that it doesn’t mean that Smoak will turn into the first half loser that Tex was all those years here. 6 years of the Tex that we were supposed to have would be amazing.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on
Nov 18, 2008 2:21 PM CST
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That's a bold statement...
considering how productive a hitter Teixeira was. I don’t think you’ll hear many coaches or gm’s bitching about a guy who’s consistently en fuego in the 2nd half of the year. Especially when October rolls around.
by slimshadty12 on
Nov 18, 2008 6:50 PM CST
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Got to be en fuego
the first half of the year to get to October.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on
Nov 18, 2008 9:30 PM CST
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Exactly
I don’t care if he is great in July-October when we can’t get to October. Tex was a productive hitter, but was never able to take it to the next level here like he was supposed to be able to. The Tex we were supposed to get was the 2005 Tex if not better. Instead, we got a guy who slumped in the first half and then did great enough in the second half to where he’d have his overall number looking solid, but still not in that MVP tier of players.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on
Nov 19, 2008 10:44 AM CST
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Pretty sure if you're en fuego...
6 months of the year, your name is Albert Pujols. Otherwise, I guess just some schmucks.
by slimshadty12 on
Nov 19, 2008 12:48 PM CST
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well that was easy!
The man who’s fastball keeps on giving <—-Holland of course!
DSheppard Winner of the 2008 Game Day Thread Graphics Award
Gossamer 1st Runner Up
Honorable Mention:
TxStCa, Rodney, LSJ, Baseballs Girlfriend, CMKelly29, Ghtd36, Chase Irwin,
Rangers85
by LAMuscleFag on
Nov 18, 2008 12:37 PM CST
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Derek "stop calling me Dutch" Holland
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on
Nov 18, 2008 1:30 PM CST
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Dear Brian,
I won’t stop.
"Fielding isn't that important" - Save Us 11/11/08
by Haeger Champ on
Nov 18, 2008 1:32 PM CST
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Neither will I
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on
Nov 18, 2008 1:58 PM CST
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Nor I
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Nov 18, 2008 8:44 PM CST
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Come up with something better, Shield-Liker.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on
Nov 18, 2008 3:55 PM CST
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How about
Mo Cuishle
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on
Nov 18, 2008 4:22 PM CST
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I hate you.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on
Nov 18, 2008 5:12 PM CST
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Maybe for our group of young arms...
rather than 4-H or anything… they can be the Strike Team.
by venturafearsnolan on
Nov 18, 2008 10:47 PM CST
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I like that
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on
Nov 18, 2008 11:13 PM CST
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I support this idea
Now, who comprises said strike team (other than the obvious Feliz/Dutch/Main).
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Nov 19, 2008 12:05 AM CST
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I propose we only incude those who are close to the ML or the list would have 20 names
Hunter? He’s pretty good at throwing strikes.
by hiafex on
Nov 19, 2008 12:41 PM CST
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Who's Vic and who's Shane?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on
Nov 19, 2008 10:45 AM CST
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Elvis Andrus...
For those of you who know other clubs’ top prospects: how many teams have zero prospects that would rank higher than Andrus? I’m just curious if one of our 5-10 level prospects would be many teams’ #1.
"Fielding isn't that important" - Save Us 11/11/08
by Haeger Champ on
Nov 18, 2008 1:33 PM CST
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Elvis
If hes lower than 5 on here thats a travesty
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Nov 18, 2008 1:34 PM CST
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Brace yourself then
I’m guessing the top 5 will be (not in order), Main, Holland, Feliz, Smoak, and Teagarden. The current vote already shows that.
www.mavsmoneyball.com
by Wes Cox on
Nov 18, 2008 1:38 PM CST
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Thats a shame then
Im perfectly fine with Holland, Feliz, Smoak, and main going above him. But I think his tools and potential combined with his age at his level make him the best prospect left after that first 4. Maxs bat is great but his defense drops him. TTs D is great but I have serious doubts about his bat. Elvis’ bat has doubts also but his D at his position is better and more valuable than TTs D at his position IMO.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Nov 18, 2008 1:43 PM CST
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so
being 1 place off of your personal list qualifies as a travesty? That’s rough
by bushe on
Nov 18, 2008 2:06 PM CST
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And a slick fielding SS
should lose to a slick fielding catcher every time – all things being equal.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
by Parman on
Nov 18, 2008 3:08 PM CST
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hmmm
thats an interesting question
who was the ozzie smith of catchers?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Nov 18, 2008 3:18 PM CST
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Jason Kendall?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on
Nov 18, 2008 3:50 PM CST
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+1
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on
Nov 18, 2008 4:24 PM CST
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iirc
he is a realllllllly good catcher
good one zy, hes better than kendall
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Nov 18, 2008 5:39 PM CST
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Tony Pena
Ozzie Smith is the most overrated player in baseball history.
by JBImaknee on
Nov 18, 2008 4:01 PM CST
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I disagree.
His defense was crazy good.
I’d go with Cal Ripken, Jr. and that’s just off the top of my head.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on
Nov 18, 2008 4:11 PM CST
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I actually don't think Ripken is overrated.
Maybe even underrated. I know some people I respect who disagree with me, though.
I think he’s mostly poorly represented. He’s either overrated because of the streak or underrated by people who realize the streak is really meaningless but don’t understand how valuable his offense and defense at shortstop was.
by philkid3 on
Nov 18, 2008 4:29 PM CST
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Ripken
Many might think that hes overrated due to his Game Streak, but honestly, he was the heart and soul of the O’s for so long, even on O’s teams that were considered bad. I alway think that he could have a world series ring if it wasn’t for that damn kid in New York…
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Nov 18, 2008 4:33 PM CST
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He does have a World Series ring.
Recorded the last out, even.
by philkid3 on
Nov 18, 2008 4:41 PM CST
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Whoops
Totally forgot about the 1983 O’s, my bad
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Nov 18, 2008 4:43 PM CST
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That's awkward.
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on
Nov 18, 2008 8:44 PM CST
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I think he's pretty underrated.
First, his defense was insane. Second, people act like he was an offensive liability when nothing could be further from the truth.
He didn’t have much power, but he was very good at getting on base in an era that wasn’t as offensively huge as today and he also stole a lot of bases at a good clip. Thanks to that, he put up a career .262 EqA. That alone is above average (thus: not a liability), but beyond that, he put that up at shortstop, a position where typically it only takes about a .240 EqA to be average.
So he was an average offensive player over his career at a position that makes that WELL above average value and he was an incredibly valuable fielder. And that’s over his career. He had eight straight seasons above .272 and four times over that span was above .280, including a .294 season. So that’s some wonderful peak value at offense coupled with incredible defense.
The Wizard has become underrated. He’s brushed off as being all D and no O, which is flat out wrong, especially when positional value is considered.
Secondaly, people act like he was barely Hall of Fame caliber and only because he was the best fielder ever at his position. In actuality, he’s arguably one of the 10 best shortstops ever and maybe one of the 100 best position players ever; easily a Hall of Famer.
by philkid3 on
Nov 18, 2008 4:26 PM CST
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You said it better than me.
Nice.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on
Nov 18, 2008 4:28 PM CST
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I don't think it is possible for him to be "underrated"
He was a first ballot Hall of Famer with 92% of the vote.
I’m not arguing that Ozzie wasn’t good. Of course he was good. I agree he should have been a Hall of Famer – I think a general “sufficiency” rule for the HOF is “were you the best player at your position for an extended period of time,” and for Ozzie he certainly was.
That said, you hear some people say he’s the best SS ever – and that annoys me. I look at the numbers and say that he isn’t anywhere near Ripken, Wagner, Banks or ARod. I know SS is a tough position to work with, because you can argue that an Ozzie Smith type defensive player is as valuable as an Ernie Banks. He had a great glove – I get that. I guess I just need to be shown some quantification of his defensive stats that tells me that his glove was go good it took his average/slightly-above average bat and made him top tier ever at his position.
Would you think that Omar Vizquel is a HOFer? He has similar offensive numbers as Smith, but played in a different era (though Smith’s style fit his era perfectly)
by JBImaknee on
Nov 18, 2008 5:05 PM CST
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"I don't think it is possible for him to be 'underrated'"
That doesn’t make sense. Everyone can be over or underrated. Everyone from Babe Ruth to David Eckstein.
When people act like he’s barely (or not at all) deserving of the Hall of Fame, or only there because of his defense, or an offensive liablity, they are underrating him.
Being a first-ballot Hall of Famer doesn’t prevent you from being underrated. If someone is a top 10 player but is usually not considered top 50, even if he’s a first-ballot HoFer, he’s underrated.
That said, you hear some people say he’s the best SS ever – and that annoys me.
Well, yeah, that’s overrating him. I’ve never heard that, though. Or even close.
Would you think that Omar Vizquel is a HOFer?
Not even close. He’s no where near Smith defensively, or offensively. His career EqA is .252 to Smith’s .262 (below average vs. above average) in an era with slightly higher offense at shortstop (about .250ish as opposed to .240ish). He’s only had 7 seasons even better (usually not by much) than Smith’s career average.
A while ago I was doing a series where I used Bill James’s career ranking metric at every position using WARP instead of Win Shares. I posted several of them here, but accidentally deleted by shortstop rankings. That said, I know Oz was top 15 and I don’t think Vizquel was even in my top 50. If he was, it was barely.
He really isn’t that great.
by philkid3 on
Nov 18, 2008 5:13 PM CST
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look at his era+
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Nov 18, 2008 5:39 PM CST
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Ozzie Smith of catchers
Benito Santiago or perhaps Charles Johnson. Benny was gooood.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on
Nov 18, 2008 10:30 PM CST
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And Pudge
Exceptional defensively. But as far as slick fielding/below average offense, Benny.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on
Nov 18, 2008 10:34 PM CST
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I actually think Pudge is a good comparison.
He’s better offensively than Oz (.276 EqA to .262) at a position with lower average production, and his best seasons are better, but I still think they compare pretty well.
They got to their offense different ways, of course. Oz was terrific at avoiding outs and stealing bases, Pudge made mad contact with good power.
by philkid3 on
Nov 18, 2008 10:38 PM CST
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A real travesty indeed...
It brings me back to that fiercely debated Dan Peltier vs. Dan Smith prospect face-off of 1991. I think it’s pretty obvious who wound up with egg on their face on that one!
I used to believe that violence never solved any problem. That was unitl I got acquitted of murdering my pregnant mistress.
by YourNameHere on
Nov 18, 2008 4:12 PM CST
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teagarden shouldnt be that high imo
but i rank on ceililng a lot, and he doenst have a really high one offensively
teagarden is in the 7-9 range for me, def not top 5
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Nov 18, 2008 1:59 PM CST
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I set the table last night...
and put the fork on the wrong side of the knife. You woulda thought that was a travesty.
"Fielding isn't that important" - Save Us 11/11/08
by Haeger Champ on
Nov 18, 2008 2:07 PM CST
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lol
its not like i dont like teagarden, he is probably the most likely of all of our top 10 guys to reach his ceiling, which i like a lot
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Nov 18, 2008 2:23 PM CST
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I think he'll be 5
"Fielding isn't that important" - Save Us 11/11/08
by Haeger Champ on
Nov 18, 2008 1:47 PM CST
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A case could be made for
Houston depending on your views of Castro, CHW if you put Andrus above Beckaham, Sea, Det, maybe Mets, maybe Reds, maybe Dbacks, and depending on how you rate Vitters the Cubs…
by laxtonto on
Nov 18, 2008 2:28 PM CST
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I think Beckham
will be high. Porcello will be above Andrus. Parker probably will be, and Vitters might be.
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 18, 2008 2:33 PM CST
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parker
is a guy some really like and some are just meh on
the king of that though is tim alderson
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Nov 18, 2008 2:39 PM CST
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Just some other possibilities
The Angels have Adenhard and Walden, and I’m not sure either goes ahead of Andrus.
Austin Jackson figures to be pretty close.
I suspect that Andrus will be ahead of Revere or Hicks
Carrasco would be pretty close
I can’t think of a Dodger who will be clearly ahead of him
SD shouldn’t
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 18, 2008 3:18 PM CST
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Without going through every franchise
maybe 5-10? Part of it depends on exactly where Andrus falls. If he’s close to where BA had him this spring like half of MLB or more will not have a guy in front of him. If he’s around 50, the majority of the league will have a guy, probably 22-25 of the teams.
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 18, 2008 2:32 PM CST
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I voted Holland
using the who you’d like to lose in a trade most system. Holland’s ETA could be this September while Feliz still needs some work. Smoak isn’t a pitcher so he can’t be number 1.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on
Nov 18, 2008 2:26 PM CST
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good, good, ridiculous
“using the who you’d like to lose in a trade most system” – good way to look at it
“Holland’s ETA could be this September while Feliz still needs some work” – certainly worth considering
“Smoak isn’t a pitcher so he can’t be number 1” – that’s ridiculous. So if our system was headed by Smoak, Andrus, Beltre, Max Ram and Thomas Diamond… we’d HAVE to rank Diamond first?
"Fielding isn't that important" - Save Us 11/11/08
by Haeger Champ on
Nov 18, 2008 3:48 PM CST
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when the polls are closed on #1
Can we just put Feliz at #2 and move on to #3
that’s where it will start to get interesting
by thedudeabides on
Nov 18, 2008 2:47 PM CST
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Hell No...
The first rule of LSB Community Prospect Project is you don’t skip a vote.We take this shit very seriously. Almost as serious as the guys at Minor League Ball bitching about LSBers stuffing the ballot box for Rangers.
Beat those Cougs.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on
Nov 18, 2008 8:19 PM CST
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Can we get
Robbie Ross on one of the next few polls?
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on
Nov 18, 2008 2:53 PM CST
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Sure.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on
Nov 18, 2008 3:52 PM CST
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Just barely went with Feliz over Holland and Main
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on
Nov 18, 2008 2:57 PM CST
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Nice win
in LSB football this weekend
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on
Nov 18, 2008 3:05 PM CST
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thanks
it was pretty close at the end. Lucky Terrence McGee bailed me out in the end
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on
Nov 19, 2008 4:51 PM CST
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Going down this week though.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on
Nov 19, 2008 5:28 PM CST
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Neftali all the way
and why is Beavan even on that list??
by Save us on
Nov 18, 2008 3:14 PM CST
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WTF?
I know he shouldn’t be #1, obv… but there really is only a contest between 4 of them legitimately.
What’s wrong with Beavan?
"Holland didn’t make that kid question his swing, he made him question his career path"
by trident on
Nov 18, 2008 3:18 PM CST
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no kidding
he has the greatest slider he’s ever seen
by thedudeabides on
Nov 18, 2008 3:20 PM CST
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whats wrong with him?
he throws in the 80s with his fastball and he is in single A
by Save us on
Nov 18, 2008 5:20 PM CST
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dont evaluate him on his velo until a few months into next year
everyone knows that HS pitchers always lose some velo their first year
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Nov 18, 2008 5:41 PM CST
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He's better than you
Bitch!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on
Nov 18, 2008 6:07 PM CST
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Yeah
What’s your point?
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on
Nov 18, 2008 7:00 PM CST
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Mendoza is horrible, sooooooooooooo if he is horrible and better than me then a whole lot of pitchers are better than me. Which means that Beavan being better than me doesn’t mean anything.
okay? do i need to repeat it?
by Save us on
Nov 18, 2008 7:07 PM CST
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Feliz gets my vote this time...
…but much like everyone else, it was a tough choice between him and Dutch.
These things always make me feel very, very good about the future of the franchise, especially when you put guys like Michael Main as (for example only) the fifth best prospect in the system.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on
Nov 18, 2008 3:15 PM CST
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That's not even fair, really.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on
Nov 18, 2008 3:32 PM CST
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I love how
His BA against went from .228 to .185 to .163 as he moved up. And it’s not like his walk rate was high, a little over two per nine in AA. 3 HR all year. There just isn’t really anything to quarrel with statistically. I guess he could have had a 3:1 GB ratio or something.
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 18, 2008 3:50 PM CST
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Holland / Feliz question
I don’t have a problem with either of these guys or Smoak being voted first, but I’m not sure that the logic that Holland is closer to the major leagues (which by all accounts is true) means that he should be ranked higher than Feliz is on target.
First of all, it’s not a race. The first guy who reaches the majors isn’t guaranteed or even more likely to be the better pitcher. And just getting there healthy doesn’t mean you stay healthy.
Second, they’ve achieved very similarly at the same levels. It’s not like we’re comparing a guy who has had success at AAA and a guy who has had success in short season ball, where you don’t really know how to read their performance in relation to each other.
Third and most central to my thinking, Feliz is 19 months younger. That he has had very similar success and has a very similar package and has moved at a similar developmental rate, despite being almost two years younger seems like a good thing to me, not a bad one.
The guy is just learning secondary pitches. He has said that he didn’t even try to throw a breaking ball until he came to this organization. If Holland had a knockout slider, I’d understand the idea that Feliz’s lack of polish gives the edge to the other guy, but they’re both raw with their other stuff and have relied very much on their FB.
Their similarity at different ages, along with how new a lot of it is to Feliz, suggests to me that he has a better chance of developing in other areas, not a worse one.
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 18, 2008 4:04 PM CST
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This sums up a lot of why I went with Feliz.
That, and the fact that Feliz’s track record as a top prospect goes back farther. Holland just burst on the scene, and that, to me, is part of the tie-breaking process between the two.
by philkid3 on
Nov 18, 2008 4:42 PM CST
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If we were ranking payers who are closer to the majors,
Then Tommy Hunter would have to be over Feliz and Holland and Main and Beavan and Perez and so on and so on…
And I’m sure no one on this board thinks that
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Nov 18, 2008 4:47 PM CST
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Obviously not, but
I counted seven responses who mentioned being more polished and/or closer to the majors as their reasoning for giving Holland the edge.
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 18, 2008 4:52 PM CST
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Basically it was very, very close for me.
I looked at Neftali’s age advantage and Der-Hol’s perceived (to me, at least) advantage in terms of polish and chose Der-Hol.
Basically it came down to Der-Hol’s better chance of sticking as a starter trumping Neftali’s youth/unpossibly good FB-combo.
They are both “A” prospects, imo.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on
Nov 18, 2008 5:03 PM CST
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Yeah
No problem with anyone voting Holland.
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 18, 2008 6:24 PM CST
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Thats why I hate that argument
Obviously I’m happy that Holland is closer to the majors, but the thing that I like about Feliz not being as close is that he can spend more time in the minors working on his secondary pitchs and holding runners. Like you said, Feliz is 18 months younger, which is good because he can spend more time working and getting better. The way Feliz pitchs now I believe he can be a great ML closer (which i have no problem with), but staying in the minors allows him to work more on his other pitches.
We know he has a plus plus pitch in his fastball, and an alright pitch in his changeup (didn’t really see it much when I saw him pitch). What if, in this next year, Feliz develops another plus pitch (either in his changeup or maybe a curve or a slider) and makes progress on another pitch. Oh god, then I feel sorry for other AL West clubs…
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Nov 18, 2008 5:05 PM CST
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One day...
You’ve only been here one day, you need to prattle off some stupid shit first, and then learn, and then become a decent poster, k?
Of course, that never worked for me…
:)
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on
Nov 18, 2008 6:12 PM CST
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Haha
This is what happens when you’re sick at home and got nothing else to do…besides, i could take the Steal Home approach and demand pitching, if you would like
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Nov 18, 2008 6:24 PM CST
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Oh sweet merciful crap, no.
Please don’t.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on
Nov 18, 2008 6:33 PM CST
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Being more polished matters to me
He just has less that can go wrong with him and I place a high value in that. Its the same reason I disagreed so much with MJH’s lefty rankings.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on
Nov 19, 2008 10:53 AM CST
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It's one thing
if one guy is really polished and one guy is really raw. These two aren’t far apart.
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 19, 2008 9:53 PM CST
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We all know how you feel about...
players’ proximity to the majors. As soon as they get a whiff of AAA, the bloom is off the rose, as far as zywica’s concerned.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on
Nov 18, 2008 5:03 PM CST
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Went Holland
But it was between Feliz and Holland all day. I guess what it made me go with Holland is that amazing K/BB ratio, his HR rate, and the way he went to three leagues this year (A, A+, AA) and totally shut down teams.
Basiclly, Holland and Feliz are 1A and 1B with me now, with both switching back and forth. And this is without me seeing Holland pitch yet (hope to see a game this year) and being able to see Feliz pitch
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Nov 18, 2008 4:21 PM CST
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Hey all....
New here. Been reading for a while, but figured it’s about time I post something.
Anyways, I went with Feliz here. There just aren’t many guys in the minors with that kind of arm and at his age, he’s got a long time to figure things out. I do find it interesting, though, that the guy baseball america had ranked as #1 just one year ago has all of 0 votes as I write this. Truly a testiment to the greatness of this system.
by Shrute Farms on
Nov 18, 2008 5:16 PM CST
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Welcome.
And rec simply based on the epic screen name.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on
Nov 18, 2008 5:28 PM CST
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Thanks guys
…but then I realized I misspelled it and we can’t have that! So I was forced to make a new one.
by Schrute Farms on
Nov 18, 2008 5:40 PM CST
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Correction
auto-rec.
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on
Nov 18, 2008 8:51 PM CST
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Is Feliz starter-material though
With just two pitches? If he ended up following Billy Wagner’s career path – starter in the minors, closer in the majors – it wouldn’t be a disapointment.
"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips
by Rangerchick on
Nov 18, 2008 5:51 PM CST
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It's a little early to say
that he’ll only have two pitches. People were saying that about Edinson Volquez right through most of 2007. A few months later he’s a quality major league starter.
You also can’t assume that he’ll develop both his change and breaking ball into quality pitches or even that he’ll be a starter rather than closer, but it’s just early to conclude anything.
by Brett Perryman on
Nov 18, 2008 6:03 PM CST
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As of now, it uncertain
IMO, as much life as Feliz has on his fastball, he cannot use it effectily enough to become a ML starter. But thats the beauty of him being so young. He can stay in the minors for another full year and work on his secondary pitches and how to use them and then become an effective starter.
Like it was stated earlier, you have Feliz, Holland, Main, Beavan, Ramirez, Harrison, Font, possbily Kiker, and down the line Murphy and Ross could be in there as well as starters. Honestly, if Feliz was to be placed in the bullpen as a closer, I’m sure not many will be disappointed, because that fastball is such a plus pitch that it can easily close out games for us. I would love to see Holland open up a game, pitch 6-7 innings, FX2 pitch the 7 or 8, and then have Feliz come in and close it. What a dream there
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Nov 18, 2008 6:08 PM CST
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you didn't even mention
Hurley, Diamond, and Hunter
We have a LOT of young pitchers. Finally! Some of these guys have to work out… while on this team, that is
"Holland didn’t make that kid question his swing, he made him question his career path"
by trident on
Nov 18, 2008 11:52 PM CST
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Listing only Ross and Murphy as starters down the line
Is a travesty. Perez? Boscan?
by hiafex on
Nov 19, 2008 12:45 PM CST
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Holland
do you guys remember that “Who’s Your Guy” thread or something stupid like that about a year ago, the one where everybody had to claim who “their guy” is in the Rangers’ system, and every player could be claimed once? I got Holland in that thread with like the last comment…
I win.
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on
Nov 18, 2008 6:52 PM CST
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Yeah, I'm bored
http://www.lonestarball.com/2008/5/19/520500/just-click-on-it#6428004
www.mavsmoneyball.com
by Wes Cox on
Nov 18, 2008 7:12 PM CST
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Hmmm
I posted one word, deuce, and I have no idea what I meant by that.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Nov 18, 2008 8:07 PM CST
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The RR mascot.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on
Nov 18, 2008 8:31 PM CST
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I took Alexi Ogando.
Still waiting.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on
Nov 18, 2008 7:16 PM CST
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Woops.
Wanted phillips…
so i guess ill have to go with another lefty, Derek Holland.
If we get an offensive prospect as well, I’d have to go with TT for the sole reason that everyone seems to be forgetting about him lately.
by rchawk12 on May 19, 2008 2:01 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
You Lose.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. Back to Suckville with a loss to FLA ATL but whatever, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-9 baby!
by sprite on
Nov 18, 2008 7:58 PM CST
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well poop
darn it. still nothin to hang my hat on.
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on
Nov 18, 2008 9:00 PM CST
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Well, there are
your mildly amusing cat videos, I suppose. Won’t hang a large hat, maybe one of those little ones you eat ice cream in.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Nov 18, 2008 11:47 PM CST
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vindication
tried to find it earlier in the year, but quickly gave up.
How bout a Smoak and a pancake?
by rchawk12 on
Nov 19, 2008 5:44 PM CST
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on a side note
i still find it hard to believe that no one picked teagarden after the year he had. Figured someone had to give him some props and I wasn’t even that high on him at the time.
How bout a Smoak and a pancake?
by rchawk12 on
Nov 19, 2008 5:46 PM CST
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I'm not sure what you mean.
He got 7 votes.
by philkid3 on
Nov 19, 2008 5:52 PM CST
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Clarification
I meant no one picked him in the pick your player sweepstakes of last year.
How bout a Smoak and a pancake?
by rchawk12 on
Nov 19, 2008 9:53 PM CST
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Neftali
When it’s close, I take the guy with more upside.
by nivarsity on
Nov 18, 2008 7:57 PM CST
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Smoak
Upside and likelihood of reaching it.
I reserved judgement until he at least took a professional at bat, he has and my judgement shall no longer serve as a barrier to his greatness.
Bottom line, there are no flaws in his game, feliz and holland (tremendous prospects in their own right) not so much.
I'm sorry my parents never had me sarcamsized.
by rchawk12 on
Nov 18, 2008 8:12 PM CST
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Thank goodness
Smoak was able to scratch and claw his way past your judgment.
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on
Nov 18, 2008 8:57 PM CST
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He didnt have to scratch and claw
just reach around and tickle.
How bout a Smoak and a pancake?
by rchawk12 on
Nov 19, 2008 12:28 AM CST
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