Prospect Previews: Catchers - MJH/DMN
by Rodney on Nov 18, 2008 8:45 AM CST
41 comments
With Taylor Teagarden and Jarrod Saltalamacchia graduating, this group illustrates how significant the Rangers' efforts in Latin America have become over the past few years. Four of these five come from Venezuela and the other from the Dominican Republic.
All five of these kids possess at least one exceptional skill, but none comes close at this point to representing the whole package like Teagarden does.
On Max:
2009 Projection: There are several scenarios at play here, depending on how the trade market plays out. If I had to bet, Ramirez will be the opening day starting catcher for someone else in 2009. If the Rangers end up trading both Laird and Saltalamacchia, he'll share duties behind the plate with Taylor Teagarden while getting some DH appearances for the Rangers.
I really don't want to five up on Max so early...
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I think Teagarden should still be on that list, myself
I don’t see how 53 PA’s in the majors counts as “graduating”. In fact… let me just jump over to BR real quick…
MLB PA:
Max Ramirez: 55
Taylor Teagarden: 53
I’m officially confused.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 18, 2008 9:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Gotta agree
I guess this just means that MJH is convinced Tea will be in Arlington in April.
And I think that of all of our catchers, Max is the one I want to trade the least (though Teagarden makes it close). The Rangers must really think his ceiling is limited to a Victor Martinez (still a good ceiling) to be pushing moving him so fast. Just leave the kid in AAA and have him DH for us after Blalock is gone if nothing welse.
by JBImaknee on Nov 18, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My line of demarcation
I “graduate” a guy when I figure he’s extremely unlikely to be back in the minors on opening day. If Max stays here and at least one of Salty or Laird is still here, Max will almost certainly open up in OKC. I do not see any scenario where Teagarden doesn’t begin the 2009 season in Arlington.
by mjh on Nov 18, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tea not in Arlington
unless he’s traded but I don’t see that happening either.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 18, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, thanks for the explanation Mike
I’d still disagree, but it really doesn’t matter seeing as how I’m not a prospect guru. I had been really looking forward to comparing what you had to say about Tea and Max though.
Another question if I might… you don’t see any scenario where Tea doesn’t open the season in the majors… I take this to mean you think the Rangers would make him Laird’s backup (al la Salty) before they sent him to the minors?
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 18, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Teagarden/Ramirez
MJH probably thinks that Teagarden will be in Arlington and Max will be in Triple AAA at the beginning of the year, unless Hank’s traded then we can use Max at DH, which I would love to see
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Nov 18, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...
I feel really old when I see prospects born in 1991.
by JBImaknee on Nov 18, 2008 9:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
great line of catchers
I still see the best ML situation being Tea and Max. Max could DH, backup catch, and drive up his value. in 2010 after Blalock is gone, he could either slide into the DH role, or be traded.
We need a power hitting RH bat. We are counting on Cruz, but what if he flops? We need Max as backup.
"That one is headed for the moon!" - All Star Derby
by m_nieft on Nov 18, 2008 10:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Smoak
fills that hole at least partially to me.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 18, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TRIPLE agree!
I'd love for part of the "new look" to be a return to the red uniforms of the 1990s. - Ian Kinsler
by ortonius on Nov 18, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Those are some pretty aggressive level projections
for de los Santos and Telis. I would think that AZL for Telis and Spokane for DLS would be pretty natural. It’s not like DLS had much offensive success in rookie ball, and Santana needs to stay in Hickory (though as Mike said, who knows what position he’ll play). I guess I could see DLS getting the backup job in Hickory then moving to the NWL when it starts, but I’ve never quite understood that approach.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 18, 2008 12:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
could be right
but in the Scott Servais era, they sure do seem to be getting a lot more aggressive with assignments for guys they think have big upside
by mjh on Nov 18, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is a good thing IMO
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 18, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I never would have guessed the Martin Perez assignment in a million years, based on the same logic I expressed there.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 18, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Question for Mike (1)...
I asked this on the Dallas Morning News Blog, but maybe you’ll see it here:
Mike,
Great post. I was curious to know if Benjamin Petralli, Jose Felix or Chris Gradoville came close to the top 5.
Petralli, for those who don’t know, is long-time Ranger Geno’s son. The younger Petralli was drafted in the 33rd round this year, marking the fifth consecutive year he’s been drafted. John Sickels participated in a “Shadow Draft” this season, and took Ben in the fifth round for the Minnesota Twins, citing Petralli’s "defense, plate discipline, and developing power."
Felix’s offensive line at Clinton (.262/.300/.305) wasn’t at all impressive, but he’s still very young for a catcher at that level (he turned 20 this past June), and for July was named the Rangers’ Minor League Defensive Player of the Month. Evan Grant gave Felix some “props” to Felix on this blog on October 8th, 2008 in his “Care for some desert?”
Gradoville, 24, hit .309/.343/.438 for Bakersfield.
I used to believe that violence never solved any problem. That was unitl I got acquitted of murdering my pregnant mistress.
by YourNameHere on Nov 18, 2008 3:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
there were a lot of years
when those three would have been on the list, but none of them really has the upside of the five I’ve listed
by mjh on Nov 19, 2008 4:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Question for Mike (2)...
Mike,
I was curious about Cristian Santana. He’s had Labrum Surgery along with shoulder and ankle problems recently. If there’s any long-term questions regarding those injuries, do you think the Rangers might try Santana at third base? At the measurements you have listed (6’1 215 lbs.), he seems like a good fit. And at third, you don’t necessarily need the arm of a catcher (although you do need some strength there) or the speed of an outfielder. Instincts is a question mark. It looks as though the Rangers are short on third base prospects. Thoughts?
Also, do you think the Rangers might have simply rushed Santana to the Midwest League? I believe that he’d only played 33 games professionally (27 in the Arizona Rookie League and 6 in the Northwest League) prior to the 2008 season.
I used to believe that violence never solved any problem. That was unitl I got acquitted of murdering my pregnant mistress.
by YourNameHere on Nov 18, 2008 3:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Question for Mike (3)...
I’m wondering about Manuel Pina’s long-term status. Do you think that over the next couple of years, if the trade market provides for strong enough returns on them, the Rangers might want to trade Taylor Teagarden, Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Max Ramirez, leaving Pina as the starter?
I used to believe that violence never solved any problem. That was unitl I got acquitted of murdering my pregnant mistress.
by YourNameHere on Nov 18, 2008 3:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I would think Pina
is a nice insurance catcher to have around either as a solid back-up catcher or to at least have a great defensive catcher if whatever catchers we have left are busts.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 18, 2008 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Backup
Yeah, I just don’t see any way Pina’s bat comes around to the point where he’s a starting catcher. I hope he proves me wrong, because that would be a nice player to have.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 18, 2008 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Manuel Pina's bat...
I imagine that Manuel Pina’s offensive production, if he makes the Major Leagues, will likely fall short of what’s expected from Max Ramirez, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, and Taylor Teagarden. I’m just wondering if the lost production at that position could be mitigated by the returns the Rangers could get if they dealt Ramirez, Saltalamacchia and Teagarden. I’m not necessarily endorsing the idea. It’ll be interesting to see if Pina, after doing it once in 2008, can take another step forward with his bat in 2009.
I used to believe that violence never solved any problem. That was unitl I got acquitted of murdering my pregnant mistress.
by YourNameHere on Nov 18, 2008 9:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pina's bat
I think at this point it’s more likely his bat will fall short of acceptable for a major league player, period, let alone what Tea, Max, and Salty can do. He needs to improve offensively or he’s going to make you wince even as a backup catcher hitting 9th twice a week.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 18, 2008 11:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably...
I’m inclined to agree with you here. Even after a big step forward this year, Manuel Pina’s season line of .267/.317/.360, even for a top-tier defensive catcher— which I’m not necessarily certain he is or will be— still sounds like a so-so prospect.
To his credit, Pina was in Double-A, playing a position that’s known for requiring additional development time, at just 21 years of age. Also, for the entire 2008 season, Pina struck out just 34 times in 333 plate appearances.
I used to believe that violence never solved any problem. That was unitl I got acquitted of murdering my pregnant mistress.
by YourNameHere on Nov 19, 2008 12:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Age, contact rate, low K's
are all in his favor. He’s got time. I’d give him at least 2 more full seasons in the minors, no hurry.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 19, 2008 1:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I love Max.
I want him as our long term catcher and I don’t care who knows it.
.300/.400/.500 from the catcher spot is such an incredible weapon.
Yes.
Just, YES.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 18, 2008 4:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Max = Victor Martinez redux?
Great hitter, able to hit for power and average, mediocre C but not as weak-armed as Mike Piazza? That would be neat.
"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips
by Rangerchick on Nov 18, 2008 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a decent comp.
Jorge Posada works, too.
Good hitting, meh defense catchers are super sweet.
I love them.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 18, 2008 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Catcher defense is sooooo frigging overrated if you’ve got a guy who can hit like Max (or Salty).
I still say Tea winds up our backup catcher if Salty and/or Max stick around.
"I would say that our gaping hole isn’t nearly as gaping as the A’s hole [was] or Mariner’s would be." - tyd3311
by lonestarJon on Nov 18, 2008 8:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well then...
I guess if and when Justin Smoak forces his way onto the Rangers’ roster there won’t be a problem with him and Chris Davis at first base. The Rangers can just move Davis to catcher.
I used to believe that violence never solved any problem. That was unitl I got acquitted of murdering my pregnant mistress.
by YourNameHere on Nov 18, 2008 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Max can play 3B
Davis can play catcher!
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on Nov 18, 2008 10:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know you're kidding
but I’ve wondered what would happen if you could clone Albert Pujols and have him play all 8 defensive positions (+ DH). Would his incredible bat make up for his putrid defense at positions like C, SS, 2b and CF?
Would you rather have a well balanced group of 9 position players like the D-Rays or Angels have, or a team of 9 Pujolses?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 18, 2008 10:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hasn't the Yankees
been trying to do that? :)
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Nov 18, 2008 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you'd probably want a more balanced team
But I also think there’d be happy medium between the team of position players and the team of Pujolses. In other words, I think there are certain positions that require a good position player (mainly CF and shortstop) and others where you can sacrifice defensive abilty for offensive edge (1B being the most obvious example). And I tend to put the catcher’s position in the latter of those two categories, based on how huge it can be for a team to have someone like Brian McCann in the lineup at catcher instead of, say… Jeff Mathis.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 19, 2008 12:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So what is the perfect number of Pujolses?
7?
With slick fielding no-stick types at SS and CF?
I think 7 Pujolses + Cesar Izturis and Carlos Gomez would be pretty beastly, but would their good defense cancel out the offense the all-Pujols team would get from those two spots?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
MVP votes are the new OBP.
by thedirkatron on Nov 19, 2008 1:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good question
I didn’t really imagine the ramifacations of said position players being as shitty at hitting as Izturis and Gomez. I was thinking more like Elvis Andrus/Coco Crisp, really.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 19, 2008 3:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would probably make it 6 Pujolses though
With someone like… say Orlando Hudson (who may or may not fit the sterotype of a decent offense/slick feilder 2B I’m going for here, that’s just the name that rolls of my head tonight) at second base.
So that would be a lineup of six Pujolses, Andrus, Coco and O-Dog.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 19, 2008 3:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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