Sunday morning things
The g.m. meetings kick off next week, and Evan Grant says that Jon Daniels will be looking to swap one of his catchers for a starting pitcher. Grant identifies Boston, Milwaukee and Cincinnati as the most likely partners who need catching and can part with some pitching.
Jim Reeves says that Mike Maddux is the top candidate for the Ranger pitching coach job, with an announcement on the new coach coming as soon as Monday, and quotes someone "close to the situation" as saying that, with Jackie Moore in the clubhouse, Nolan Ryan now has someone to "watch his back" down there. Not sure what that means, exactly...
Marty Lurie says that Boston is going to try to get Jason Varitek's replacement from Texas, and also suggests that Bobby Abreu could be a fit in Texas if Milton Bradley leaves.
I liked the idea of Abreu a couple of years ago, but now, I don't see the point of adding another lefty-hitting COF/DH type.
Ken Davidoff says the BoSox are looking at Jarrod Saltalamacchia to replace Jason Varitek.
A story in the Chicago Tribune says that the Marlins are also interested in Saltalamacchia, while the Rangers are interested in Scott Olsen and Kevin Gregg from Florida. That story says a deal could come down as early as this coming week.
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114 comments
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Comments
florida
i really dont understand why the rangers are so interested in olson and gregg and i really hope they dont trade salty for them.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Nov 2, 2008 9:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1
Isn’t Olsen a FB pitcher…gave up 30 HRs this year. Not the best K/BB ratio either. MAybe they hope he’ll be Kenny Rogers.
by Apes and Androids on Nov 2, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping that if we wind up trading for Olsen we'll be able to pawn Laird off on them
But if JD deals Salty for Olsen I just might go postal. That trade would be so stupid it makes my brain hurt just imagining it.
"[Tim McCarver and Joe Buck] are the Gabe Gross and Ben Broussard of the broadcasting booth." - dirkatron
by lonestarJon on Nov 2, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so is tommorow the last day to decide on blalock? isnt it 5 days after the WS
by Save us on Nov 2, 2008 9:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Milwaukee?
Aren’t they losing two of their top starting pitchers? Who do they have to trade for a catcher???
And Abreu = ugh.
by JBImaknee on Nov 2, 2008 9:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Great, just what I needed to start my day
News that the stinking Olsen rumor is alive and well. Ugh…
"[Tim McCarver and Joe Buck] are the Gabe Gross and Ben Broussard of the broadcasting booth." - dirkatron
by lonestarJon on Nov 2, 2008 9:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
would moving...
1) what prospect would we have to pair with laird to get homer bailey from cinn? since presumably his defense is more valuable to an NL team.
2) if we did that first could it raise our asking price for salt’s with boston?
i think at this point i’m alright with teagarden as the catcher as long as we sign a cheap veteran for backup incase his injury history creeps up on us. i think of the four catchers max has the best bat and teagarden has the best defense, and though salty’s value is low right now, we’d have to give him a lot of consistent playing time right now to give him an opportunity to raise it. there is still no guarantee he will improve. leave max in the minors to work on his defense and let teagarden catch 80% of the games this year so as to limit injury exposure. the year after, lose the vet, have max and teabag split the games, let max DH some. at least when smoak or davis isn’t.
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Nov 2, 2008 9:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Laird
I honestly don’t think you would have to add anyone of consequence to get Bailey. I would think our top 20-25 prospects are safe
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Swap Meet
Interesting story on “swap meet” trades — bad contracts for bad contracts. No juicy rumors, just conjecture.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2008/11/02/the_place_might_be_the_thing/?page=1
by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 2, 2008 9:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Watching Nolan's back
I think that is code for snitch.
"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn
by DaheelzCM on Nov 2, 2008 9:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think this is
Jim Reeves interpretation and fervent hope of what Jackie Moore would be. Reeves’ track record does not indicate that his stories hold much water most of the time.
by mcgee48c on Nov 2, 2008 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
He offered a direct quote. I feel pretty confident that someone in the organization said those words to him.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So, another slow start
and a new manager beholden to Ryan?
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 2, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you think
that Reeves rises above the douchiness of Galloway and JFE in planting stories or taking statements out of context or paraphrasing for controversy sake? How would you react if Galloway was leaking this revelation?
by mcgee48c on Nov 2, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
x
So you think that Reeves rises above the douchiness of Galloway and JFE in planting stories or taking statements out of context or paraphrasing for controversy sake? How would you react if Galloway was leaking this revelation?
I think that when a writer quotes someone directly like that — even someone who is unnamed — then someone has made that statement.
I am also not one of those who thinks that when Galloway or Engel or whomever else quotes a “front office member” or a “club source” that they are talking to the peanut guy, as some have suggested.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To match your desire to get in the last word, It would be
somewhat naive to think that Reeves, Galloway, or JFE hold to the same standards and ethics for their reporting that is sometimes maintained in news reporting. They all had their inside sources saying that JD and Wash were going to be fired right after the season ended.
by mcgee48c on Nov 2, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
First…“my desire to get in the last word”?
I disagreed with you. You asked a question. I responded. Now you want to make some crack about me having to get the last word?
Secondly, I don’t recall any of the three of the people you listed writing that “their inside sources” said JD and Wash were going to be fired right after the season ended. In fact, Galloway wrote a column late in the season saying that he thought Daniels needed to be fired, but making it clear he didn’t know what Ryan was going to do.
Is it your position that that quote, which Reeves attributed to someone within the organization and put in quotation marks, is just a fabrication he came up with?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that it could easily be a fabrication
as is the case in many of his (and their) other columns.
I’m fascinated that you take Reeves’ words as gospel when inferring something you’d like to believe about NR while thinking he (and they) are ignorant, scum when they’re saying something you don’t want to believe about JD.
I never believe their slime slinging unless for some reason I would have very concrete confirmation. Why do you, quotation marks or no?
by mcgee48c on Nov 2, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh
When a columnist says that something specific has been told to him by someone — and yes, in particular, when there is a direct quote offered — I tend to believe that that quote wasn’t simply made up.
You getting yourself all worked up because I don’t think Reeves just made this quote up and stuck it in the story, but instead was told this by someone from within the club, and then cross-referencing it against me supposedly thinking he is “ignorant, scum” about saying something about Daniels is baffling to me.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think your selective opinion of the
value of their columns depending on the target of their columns is what I seem to be pointing out.
You’re a JD proponent (as am I) who sees NR as a constant threat or something to him (I don’t see this) and it reflects in your pieces that you post. I just keep posting little reminders that its all speculation and, as far as I can recall, all the gloom and doom hasn’t occured. When something actually happens that is damaging to the Rangers, I will join you in your gloom and doom.
Also, you actually deny that you have mocked Galloway, Reeves, etc. for their ignorant views and manipulation for “show business”?
I’m glad you got to be baffled by me when I was only fascinated with you.
by mcgee48c on Nov 2, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are mixing apples and oranges
Thinking that a columnists opinions are wrong, misguided, stupid, etc. is not the same as saying that he’s simply making up quotes and claiming they come from someone in the organization.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That series of posts
had less value and legitimacy than the columnists you malign.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 2, 2008 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
After reading back over it,
I couldn’t agree more. It was a pain to participate in, but I guess I couldn’t or wouldn’t stop. I can’t feature why anyone but AJM and I paid much attention, though.
by mcgee48c on Nov 2, 2008 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Salty trade
of all the names bandied about that seem reasonable, only Homer Bailey and Anibel Sanchez excite me for Salty. Bailey might require a second chip, which would be fine. I can’t find anything to like about Olsen, other than the fact he is left-handed and had a promising 2006.
And I think that Salty’s value should still be pretty strong, his small AAA sample last season seems like it could be indicative of what he can do.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 10:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I really doubt...
…that it would cost more than Salty to get Bailey. In fact, I’d wager the Reds would do Salty for Bailey straight up…I think it is the Rangers that would balk…
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if JD balked at Bailey for Salty straight up
I wouldn’t know what to say.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Risk
If you put both players on a 100 point risk factor scale where risk = likelihood that a player will become a solid everyday (or every fifth day) player. Where is Salty and where is Bailey?
Salty = 80-85
Bailey = 55-60
This based on what I read about Bailey and what we’ve seen from Salty.
by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 2, 2008 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
because I think that would be a huge opportunity missed
I think with Salty we can expect to get one of two types of pitcher. A proven ML mediocrity (like Olsen) or a high upside, fallen out of favor type (like Bailey).
Bailey is 22 and if he is healthy, I think there is still a chance that he could hit his ceiling.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think if we can't get anything better than Bailey for Saltalamacchia...
…then we might as well hang onto him and let him be the regular catcher next year.
Bailey was awful last year, both in the majors and in AAA. There are a ton of questions about his coachability, about his ability to stay healthy, and about how much he really wants to play baseball. And even in 2007, his peripherals weren’t really any better in the minors than they were this year, while he walked as many as he struck out in the majors.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bailey was not too bad in AAA
Trading him now would really be selling low for the Reds right now, I am not sure why they would be compelled to trade him unless they can get really good value in return- something inquiring teams would be unwilling to do.
by Telegraph on Nov 2, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Reds...
…have concluded Bailey is a head case who is never going to figure it out, and want to move him now while he still has some value.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically...
…if you think trading Salty for Bailey is a slam-dunk no-brainer, you basically think Salty’s value has sunk to the point you just want to get whatever you can for him and move on, and believe he has little chance of being a very good major league catcher.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we have different views on Bailey
I don’t think Salty’s value has sunk all that much, I just think that an erratic, but talented young arm like Bailey’s, that has been viewed as being a top 20 caliber prospect not that long ago, has quite a bit more value than you seem to. If healthy, I think Bailey could end up being a better pitcher than Volquez, he has that type talent IMO.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can probably get Bailey for Laird
Maybe throw in something else of little value to the Rangers. Why would the Rangers do Bailey for Salty?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 2, 2008 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
because Bailey is a very talented young pitcher
and the Rangers could use a bunch more of those?
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
but if you can get Bailey for Laird or Laird+ then you don’t give up Salty to get him imo. I think that’s all he was saying.
You use Salty to get another talented young pitcher.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 2, 2008 7:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Olsen/Gregg for Salty
I have no problem with the premise of the trade. A SP and RP for a C. Sounds good. Just not for Olsen/Gregg. I’d try to see if they have any interest in moving Josh Johnson and see if I can do a Salt+ to get him.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. But in the mean time, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-8 baby!
by sprite on Nov 2, 2008 10:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ideally, this would happen:
Salty to Boston for either Buchholz (pipe dream?) or Masterson and Bard. I dont think the Rangers are high on Bowden because, according to reports on this site, he could have been had instead of Gabbard. Im hoping maybe Daniels can play the marlins and red sox off against each other to drive up Salty’s price. But please please do not trade Salty for Olsen and Gregg. Olsen is a #5 guy (maybe) while Gregg is a solid late inning reliever at 30 but not a closer. This is not what we should looking for.
Then, Laird plus a lower level arm like Font (I label Boscan and Perez as untouchable, maybe too early but their polish at such a young age is special) for Bailey.
2010 Rangers = 2008 Rays?
by booyahcaveman on Nov 2, 2008 10:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
No
I’d be pissed if we throw in Font to get Bailey.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. But in the mean time, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-8 baby!
by sprite on Nov 2, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is why
I said like Font….I really dont know how high the Reds value Bailey right now that’s why I think even though we all want to guess on what it would take to get him I personally have no idea. Do they just want to get rid of him? Do they think he can turn it around?
2010 Rangers = 2008 Rays?
by booyahcaveman on Nov 2, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There is no reason for them to just want to "get rid of" Bailey
He is young, doesn’t cost anything. Absolute worst case he sulks in AAA forever and becomes minor league FA. There is absolutely no pressure for the Reds to trade him unless it is going to get them something that they want.
by Telegraph on Nov 2, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Font
I’d rather have Font than Boscan
by groundingout on Nov 2, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Quick question
Ceiling? Just curious.
by jparks77 on Nov 2, 2008 7:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Font
If Font can get his offspeed stuff anywhere close to where Boscan gets his, then Font has a huge advantage due to his velocity. I’m just a big believer of a pitcher being able to succeed easier with a big time fastball. Reports vary on his offspeed stuff, (some say curve some say slider, mind correcting me on which it actually is) but at either rate he’s got 2, his curve/slider and MJH says he’s got good arm speed on his change which is a real good start. . He is the 5th most untouchable (is that even a phrase?) SP in the minors for the Rangers IMO.
Boscan’s stats are odd. K rate and BB rate were real good as was his GB rate, yet he was fairly hittable. I just prefer to take the guy with much more upside in this situation, if Boscan reaches his fan (ok I’ll never use that again after this post, but that would be just below the ceiling, IOW assuming things go right a safe upside for him) he will be a 4/5 IMO where Font’s fan is more of a 2/3.
by groundingout on Nov 2, 2008 11:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is this the biggest offseason in Rangers history?
2010 Rangers = 2008 Rays?
by booyahcaveman on Nov 2, 2008 10:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
No
All they are doing this offseason is trading a catcher.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
do you think they will bring in someone to play 3B?
or SS?
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what do you make of JD's comment about 3b defense being a priority
I kind of interpreted that to mean that neither Blalock nor CD were in the plans there. You think they will roll with Duran/Metcalf next year? or did you not interpret that comment like I did?
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that...
…Travis Metcalf is the starting 3B next season.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Geez
I don’t see that working out very well.
Don’t you think the club would be much better off bringing in Izturis and moving Young to third? Why wouldn’t JD make a move like that?
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I do
I don’t know why they wouldn’t be looking to move Young to 3B right now.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Chemistry
Moving Young would destroy the fragile sensibilities of the guys in the clubhouse.
"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn
by DaheelzCM on Nov 2, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ugh
I think improving the talent bears much better results compared to maintaining the clubhouse chemistry of a perennial also ran.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Young
doesn’t move over for Izturis, but probably will for Andrus.
by tyd3311 on Nov 2, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what is young going to do?
refuse to play?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would love if
Wash said suck it up.
Do you see it happening?
by tyd3311 on Nov 2, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i dont see...
…young refusing to move to 3b
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ron probably thinks
Young can pick it at SS like he thought Broussard could pick it at 1B, like he thinks Jamey has electric stuff.
by tyd3311 on Nov 2, 2008 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks to Frank Robinson
Now everybody knows that ML players play the positions that their manager tells them to, or they don’t get paid. It’s really pretty simple.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Frank Robinson was a lame duck manager
He wasn’t worried about keeping his job. Washington is. There is no way Washington tells Micheal Young to play 3rd base or sit. Soriano had no history in Washington. MY has alot here.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
again
do you see young refusing to play 3b if it came down to it?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
publicly...no
But I would bet he would cause a stir in the clubhouse. Word would get around the league and I think it could have an affect on us signing players in the future. Whether it be free agents or our young guys who come up.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Young
Is skilled enough at baseball diplomacy to cast it as another shift to benefit the team. And IMHO he’s probably able to believe it as it sounds out.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Nov 2, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So long as he keeps making good contact
he will have value at the top of the lineup, even with his non-existent power already in full decline. I think he could be above average defensively at 3B, possibly significantly.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 2, 2008 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so you think that
nothing that their young pitchers are doing in the offseason to prepare for next season is meaningless?
2010 Rangers = 2008 Rays?
by booyahcaveman on Nov 2, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow,
that didnt make sense. "So you think that everything that their young pitchers are doing to prepare for next season is meaningless?
2010 Rangers = 2008 Rays?
by booyahcaveman on Nov 2, 2008 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you meant trade wise
I’m sure Adam did to.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 2, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
my fault for not clarifying..
2010 Rangers = 2008 Rays?
by booyahcaveman on Nov 2, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No problem
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 2, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This off-season is going to be a disappointment.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 2, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's the spirit!
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 2, 2008 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Borbon
I remember some of us had a discussion about exactly how bad/mediocre his arm actually was.
What Rangers outfielder Julio Borbon can’t do: 1) throw the ball.
Um, that’s about it.
OK, slight exaggeration, but Borbon’s offensive potential demands attention.
A supplemental first-round pick last season, Borbon split the season between high Class-A and Double-A and hit .321 with 53 steals. He was a true 80 runner at the University of Tennessee before breaking his ankle, but his speed has bounced back nicely.
He’s so good at making contact that he really doesn’t worry too much about patience at the plate, which means his OBP is always going to be an issue (29 walks in 546 at-bats this season), but there’s a lot to like about the rest of the package.
He has great range in center field, plus makeup, and an excellent work ethic. He hasn’t hit for a ton of pop yet, but there is still a bit more projection in him and he should eventually have some pull power. He’s squaring balls up consistently, and even his outs have been hard-hit balls right at fielders. He needs to be firmly on your radar screen.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Nov 2, 2008 11:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hey nikpin
Could you add a link or at least tell where you are getting these reports from? Thanks.
"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn
by DaheelzCM on Nov 2, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry about that
Joey beat me to it.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Nov 2, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"He's still shitty." -Brian C. Thomas.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Nov 2, 2008 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So
“He’s so good at making contact that he really doesn’t worry too much about patience at the plate..”
he’s going to kind of be like Ichiro who doesn’t walk that much either :0)?
"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips
by Rangerchick on Nov 2, 2008 11:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'll take that
Of the 5 tools I would rank arm as the 4th or 5th most important from my CFer. I don’t see it having an affect on things more than a dozen or so times during the season with perhaps only a couple of those times actually making a difference in a game.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't Lofton
have a weak arm but made up for it in range?
"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips
by Rangerchick on Nov 2, 2008 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Lofton had a weak arm but made up for it by being traded
by Telegraph on Nov 2, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lolz
"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips
by Rangerchick on Nov 2, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Borbon
I said this when he was drafted- he looks to me like another speedy CF who makes good contact, doesn’t walk much, and has a mediocre arm in center- Juan Pierre.
I suppose there are worse things to be, but I’d rather use Borbon as a trade chip than count on him to be a long-term CF/leadoff solution if he’s going to be Juan Pierre 2.0.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on Nov 2, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he is considered...
…to be better defensively, and have more power, than Pierre.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How about Kenny Lofton?
I think he will be more like a young Kenny Lofton than a Juan Pierre. Maybe not as many steals but I think Borbon will have 7-12 HR power.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not as much
defense, not as much obp, not as much power, not as many steals and not as much arm as Lofton. Other than that …
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 2, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lofton
Lofton didn’t have alot of power in the minors. Borbon has shown more power in the minors than Lofton did and comparable speed. The difference in their arms and range is negligable. The OBP is the only real thing that is significantly different.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is the On-Base Percentage really that different?
Kenny Lofton’s line in the Minor Legues (363 games, only 5 of which came after 1991):
.300/.370/.379
Julio Borbon’s Minor League line (135 games):
.312/.355/.412
The difference between Kenny Lofton’s OBP as a minor leaguer and Julio Borbon’s is .015 (.370 – .355), meaning he got on base one additional time per 66.67 plate appearances. So, what’s that, about once every two weeks?
It’s not uncommon for one to take a position on a player and then seek out all the evidence to support that position, ignoring anything that runs contrary to it. I think I’ve seen the most cases, at least recently, of this with regards to Borbon and Elvis Andrus. Perhaps the late John Kenneth Galbraith said it best when he he said, “Faced with the choice between changing one’s mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof.”
Never say you can't do something, because when you do, you're likely creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh yeah, and know your limits.
by YourNameHere on Nov 2, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the more relevant number there...
…is the spread between BA and OBP. Borbon’s spread is 43 points, Lofton’s is 70. That’s because Lofton was much more willing to take a walk than Borbon.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah thats what I was looking at
When Lofton was in his prime he was a .320-.330 hitter and still had a 60 or 70 point gap to his OBP. Borbon needs to increase that gap in his from the 40 points it is now to 50-60 to be in Loftons category in that regard. I will live with a .310/.350/.400 line from Borbon don’t get me wrong. But if he could get that up to say .310/.375/.415 then you are looking at a stud no matter how good his arm is.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll concede...
There I’ll concede. The difference in the spread between batting average and on-base percentage between Kenny Lofton’s Minor League Numbers and Julio Borbon’s is a greater concern. Lofton walked 9.97% of the time and Borbon’s rate is 5.11%. That’s a more valid claim.
Never say you can't do something, because when you do, you're likely creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh yeah, and know your limits.
by YourNameHere on Nov 2, 2008 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's still young
so I’m pretty sure he’ll be able to get it up…(runs away)…
"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips
by Rangerchick on Nov 2, 2008 10:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Question is how long will it last
I know I know it was simply too easy
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 3, 2008 8:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aren't you married?
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't remember back that far to when he was just breaking into the bigs
But as he got older that was his reputation
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 2, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ichiro with a weaker arm?
Should he be playing CF if he really has that weak of an arm?
by hiafex on Nov 2, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
very rarely does a CF arm even come into play.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No problem, whenever a need arises for Borbon to make a throw
Have Hammy run over to shallow CF and be the cut-off man
by Telegraph on Nov 2, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or sign Manny
I hear he loves to cut off throws from other outfielders
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

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