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Sunday morning things

The g.m. meetings kick off next week, and Evan Grant says that Jon Daniels will be looking to swap one of his catchers for a starting pitcher.  Grant identifies Boston, Milwaukee and Cincinnati as the most likely partners who need catching and can part with some pitching.

Jim Reeves says that Mike Maddux is the top candidate for the Ranger pitching coach job, with an announcement on the new coach coming as soon as Monday, and quotes someone "close to the situation" as saying that, with Jackie Moore in the clubhouse, Nolan Ryan now has someone to "watch his back" down there.  Not sure what that means, exactly...

Marty Lurie says that Boston is going to try to get Jason Varitek's replacement from Texas, and also suggests that Bobby Abreu could be a fit in Texas if Milton Bradley leaves.

I liked the idea of Abreu a couple of years ago, but now, I don't see the point of adding another lefty-hitting COF/DH type.

Ken Davidoff says the BoSox are looking at Jarrod Saltalamacchia to replace Jason Varitek. 

A story in the Chicago Tribune says that the Marlins are also interested in Saltalamacchia, while the Rangers are interested in Scott Olsen and Kevin Gregg from Florida.  That story says a deal could come down as early as this coming week.

 

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florida

i really dont understand why the rangers are so interested in olson and gregg and i really hope they dont trade salty for them.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Nov 2, 2008 9:24 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

+1

Isn’t Olsen a FB pitcher…gave up 30 HRs this year. Not the best K/BB ratio either. MAybe they hope he’ll be Kenny Rogers.

by Apes and Androids on Nov 2, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm hoping that if we wind up trading for Olsen we'll be able to pawn Laird off on them

But if JD deals Salty for Olsen I just might go postal. That trade would be so stupid it makes my brain hurt just imagining it.

A Lonestar in California

"[Tim McCarver and Joe Buck] are the Gabe Gross and Ben Broussard of the broadcasting booth." - dirkatron

by lonestarJon on Nov 2, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

so is tommorow the last day to decide on blalock? isnt it 5 days after the WS

by Save us on Nov 2, 2008 9:36 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

10

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Milwaukee?

Aren’t they losing two of their top starting pitchers? Who do they have to trade for a catcher???

And Abreu = ugh.

by JBImaknee on Nov 2, 2008 9:44 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Great, just what I needed to start my day

News that the stinking Olsen rumor is alive and well. Ugh…

A Lonestar in California

"[Tim McCarver and Joe Buck] are the Gabe Gross and Ben Broussard of the broadcasting booth." - dirkatron

by lonestarJon on Nov 2, 2008 9:45 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

would moving...

1) what prospect would we have to pair with laird to get homer bailey from cinn? since presumably his defense is more valuable to an NL team.

2) if we did that first could it raise our asking price for salt’s with boston?

i think at this point i’m alright with teagarden as the catcher as long as we sign a cheap veteran for backup incase his injury history creeps up on us. i think of the four catchers max has the best bat and teagarden has the best defense, and though salty’s value is low right now, we’d have to give him a lot of consistent playing time right now to give him an opportunity to raise it. there is still no guarantee he will improve. leave max in the minors to work on his defense and let teagarden catch 80% of the games this year so as to limit injury exposure. the year after, lose the vet, have max and teabag split the games, let max DH some. at least when smoak or davis isn’t.

"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...

by ivysafety39 on Nov 2, 2008 9:46 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Laird

I honestly don’t think you would have to add anyone of consequence to get Bailey. I would think our top 20-25 prospects are safe

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Swap Meet

Interesting story on “swap meet” trades — bad contracts for bad contracts. No juicy rumors, just conjecture.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2008/11/02/the_place_might_be_the_thing/?page=1

by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 2, 2008 9:58 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Watching Nolan's back

I think that is code for snitch.

"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn

by DaheelzCM on Nov 2, 2008 9:59 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

yup

sounds similar to buck showalters regime.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Nov 2, 2008 10:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think this is

Jim Reeves interpretation and fervent hope of what Jackie Moore would be. Reeves’ track record does not indicate that his stories hold much water most of the time.

by mcgee48c on Nov 2, 2008 11:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

He offered a direct quote. I feel pretty confident that someone in the organization said those words to him.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So, another slow start

and a new manager beholden to Ryan?

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 2, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you think

that Reeves rises above the douchiness of Galloway and JFE in planting stories or taking statements out of context or paraphrasing for controversy sake? How would you react if Galloway was leaking this revelation?

by mcgee48c on Nov 2, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

x
So you think that Reeves rises above the douchiness of Galloway and JFE in planting stories or taking statements out of context or paraphrasing for controversy sake? How would you react if Galloway was leaking this revelation?

I think that when a writer quotes someone directly like that — even someone who is unnamed — then someone has made that statement.

I am also not one of those who thinks that when Galloway or Engel or whomever else quotes a “front office member” or a “club source” that they are talking to the peanut guy, as some have suggested.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

To match your desire to get in the last word, It would be

somewhat naive to think that Reeves, Galloway, or JFE hold to the same standards and ethics for their reporting that is sometimes maintained in news reporting. They all had their inside sources saying that JD and Wash were going to be fired right after the season ended.

by mcgee48c on Nov 2, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay

First…“my desire to get in the last word”?

I disagreed with you. You asked a question. I responded. Now you want to make some crack about me having to get the last word?

Secondly, I don’t recall any of the three of the people you listed writing that “their inside sources” said JD and Wash were going to be fired right after the season ended. In fact, Galloway wrote a column late in the season saying that he thought Daniels needed to be fired, but making it clear he didn’t know what Ryan was going to do.

Is it your position that that quote, which Reeves attributed to someone within the organization and put in quotation marks, is just a fabrication he came up with?

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that it could easily be a fabrication

as is the case in many of his (and their) other columns.
I’m fascinated that you take Reeves’ words as gospel when inferring something you’d like to believe about NR while thinking he (and they) are ignorant, scum when they’re saying something you don’t want to believe about JD.
I never believe their slime slinging unless for some reason I would have very concrete confirmation. Why do you, quotation marks or no?

by mcgee48c on Nov 2, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh

When a columnist says that something specific has been told to him by someone — and yes, in particular, when there is a direct quote offered — I tend to believe that that quote wasn’t simply made up.

You getting yourself all worked up because I don’t think Reeves just made this quote up and stuck it in the story, but instead was told this by someone from within the club, and then cross-referencing it against me supposedly thinking he is “ignorant, scum” about saying something about Daniels is baffling to me.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 3:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think your selective opinion of the

value of their columns depending on the target of their columns is what I seem to be pointing out.
You’re a JD proponent (as am I) who sees NR as a constant threat or something to him (I don’t see this) and it reflects in your pieces that you post. I just keep posting little reminders that its all speculation and, as far as I can recall, all the gloom and doom hasn’t occured. When something actually happens that is damaging to the Rangers, I will join you in your gloom and doom.
Also, you actually deny that you have mocked Galloway, Reeves, etc. for their ignorant views and manipulation for “show business”?
I’m glad you got to be baffled by me when I was only fascinated with you.

by mcgee48c on Nov 2, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You are mixing apples and oranges

Thinking that a columnists opinions are wrong, misguided, stupid, etc. is not the same as saying that he’s simply making up quotes and claiming they come from someone in the organization.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That series of posts

had less value and legitimacy than the columnists you malign.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 2, 2008 6:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

After reading back over it,

I couldn’t agree more. It was a pain to participate in, but I guess I couldn’t or wouldn’t stop. I can’t feature why anyone but AJM and I paid much attention, though.

by mcgee48c on Nov 2, 2008 7:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Salty trade

of all the names bandied about that seem reasonable, only Homer Bailey and Anibel Sanchez excite me for Salty. Bailey might require a second chip, which would be fine. I can’t find anything to like about Olsen, other than the fact he is left-handed and had a promising 2006.

And I think that Salty’s value should still be pretty strong, his small AAA sample last season seems like it could be indicative of what he can do.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 10:08 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I really doubt...

…that it would cost more than Salty to get Bailey. In fact, I’d wager the Reds would do Salty for Bailey straight up…I think it is the Rangers that would balk…

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if JD balked at Bailey for Salty straight up

I wouldn’t know what to say.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Risk

If you put both players on a 100 point risk factor scale where risk = likelihood that a player will become a solid everyday (or every fifth day) player. Where is Salty and where is Bailey?

Salty = 80-85
Bailey = 55-60

This based on what I read about Bailey and what we’ve seen from Salty.

by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 2, 2008 10:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

because I think that would be a huge opportunity missed

I think with Salty we can expect to get one of two types of pitcher. A proven ML mediocrity (like Olsen) or a high upside, fallen out of favor type (like Bailey).

Bailey is 22 and if he is healthy, I think there is still a chance that he could hit his ceiling.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 10:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think if we can't get anything better than Bailey for Saltalamacchia...

…then we might as well hang onto him and let him be the regular catcher next year.

Bailey was awful last year, both in the majors and in AAA. There are a ton of questions about his coachability, about his ability to stay healthy, and about how much he really wants to play baseball. And even in 2007, his peripherals weren’t really any better in the minors than they were this year, while he walked as many as he struck out in the majors.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bailey was not too bad in AAA

Trading him now would really be selling low for the Reds right now, I am not sure why they would be compelled to trade him unless they can get really good value in return- something inquiring teams would be unwilling to do.

by Telegraph on Nov 2, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the Reds...

…have concluded Bailey is a head case who is never going to figure it out, and want to move him now while he still has some value.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Basically...

…if you think trading Salty for Bailey is a slam-dunk no-brainer, you basically think Salty’s value has sunk to the point you just want to get whatever you can for him and move on, and believe he has little chance of being a very good major league catcher.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we have different views on Bailey

I don’t think Salty’s value has sunk all that much, I just think that an erratic, but talented young arm like Bailey’s, that has been viewed as being a top 20 caliber prospect not that long ago, has quite a bit more value than you seem to. If healthy, I think Bailey could end up being a better pitcher than Volquez, he has that type talent IMO.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You can probably get Bailey for Laird

Maybe throw in something else of little value to the Rangers. Why would the Rangers do Bailey for Salty?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 2, 2008 6:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

because Bailey is a very talented young pitcher

and the Rangers could use a bunch more of those?

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 7:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree...

but if you can get Bailey for Laird or Laird+ then you don’t give up Salty to get him imo. I think that’s all he was saying.

You use Salty to get another talented young pitcher.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 2, 2008 7:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Olsen/Gregg for Salty

I have no problem with the premise of the trade. A SP and RP for a C. Sounds good. Just not for Olsen/Gregg. I’d try to see if they have any interest in moving Josh Johnson and see if I can do a Salt+ to get him.

Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. But in the mean time, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-8 baby!

by sprite on Nov 2, 2008 10:17 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Ideally, this would happen:

Salty to Boston for either Buchholz (pipe dream?) or Masterson and Bard. I dont think the Rangers are high on Bowden because, according to reports on this site, he could have been had instead of Gabbard. Im hoping maybe Daniels can play the marlins and red sox off against each other to drive up Salty’s price. But please please do not trade Salty for Olsen and Gregg. Olsen is a #5 guy (maybe) while Gregg is a solid late inning reliever at 30 but not a closer. This is not what we should looking for.

Then, Laird plus a lower level arm like Font (I label Boscan and Perez as untouchable, maybe too early but their polish at such a young age is special) for Bailey.

2010 Rangers = 2008 Rays?

by booyahcaveman on Nov 2, 2008 10:30 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

No

I’d be pissed if we throw in Font to get Bailey.

Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. But in the mean time, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-8 baby!

by sprite on Nov 2, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That is why

I said like Font….I really dont know how high the Reds value Bailey right now that’s why I think even though we all want to guess on what it would take to get him I personally have no idea. Do they just want to get rid of him? Do they think he can turn it around?

2010 Rangers = 2008 Rays?

by booyahcaveman on Nov 2, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There is no reason for them to just want to "get rid of" Bailey

He is young, doesn’t cost anything. Absolute worst case he sulks in AAA forever and becomes minor league FA. There is absolutely no pressure for the Reds to trade him unless it is going to get them something that they want.

by Telegraph on Nov 2, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yep

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Nov 2, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Font

I’d rather have Font than Boscan

by groundingout on Nov 2, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Font

If Font can get his offspeed stuff anywhere close to where Boscan gets his, then Font has a huge advantage due to his velocity. I’m just a big believer of a pitcher being able to succeed easier with a big time fastball. Reports vary on his offspeed stuff, (some say curve some say slider, mind correcting me on which it actually is) but at either rate he’s got 2, his curve/slider and MJH says he’s got good arm speed on his change which is a real good start. . He is the 5th most untouchable (is that even a phrase?) SP in the minors for the Rangers IMO.

Boscan’s stats are odd. K rate and BB rate were real good as was his GB rate, yet he was fairly hittable. I just prefer to take the guy with much more upside in this situation, if Boscan reaches his fan (ok I’ll never use that again after this post, but that would be just below the ceiling, IOW assuming things go right a safe upside for him) he will be a 4/5 IMO where Font’s fan is more of a 2/3.

by groundingout on Nov 2, 2008 11:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No

All they are doing this offseason is trading a catcher.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

do you think they will bring in someone to play 3B?

or SS?

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what do you make of JD's comment about 3b defense being a priority

I kind of interpreted that to mean that neither Blalock nor CD were in the plans there. You think they will roll with Duran/Metcalf next year? or did you not interpret that comment like I did?

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that...

…Travis Metcalf is the starting 3B next season.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Geez

I don’t see that working out very well.

Don’t you think the club would be much better off bringing in Izturis and moving Young to third? Why wouldn’t JD make a move like that?

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I do

I don’t know why they wouldn’t be looking to move Young to 3B right now.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Chemistry

Moving Young would destroy the fragile sensibilities of the guys in the clubhouse.

"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn

by DaheelzCM on Nov 2, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ugh

I think improving the talent bears much better results compared to maintaining the clubhouse chemistry of a perennial also ran.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Young

doesn’t move over for Izturis, but probably will for Andrus.

by tyd3311 on Nov 2, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would love if

Wash said suck it up.

Do you see it happening?

by tyd3311 on Nov 2, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i dont see...

…young refusing to move to 3b

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ron probably thinks

Young can pick it at SS like he thought Broussard could pick it at 1B, like he thinks Jamey has electric stuff.

by tyd3311 on Nov 2, 2008 11:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well

it isnt ron’s call

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks to Frank Robinson

Now everybody knows that ML players play the positions that their manager tells them to, or they don’t get paid. It’s really pretty simple.

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Alf

wasn’t the FFACE.

by tyd3311 on Nov 2, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Frank Robinson was a lame duck manager

He wasn’t worried about keeping his job. Washington is. There is no way Washington tells Micheal Young to play 3rd base or sit. Soriano had no history in Washington. MY has alot here.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

again

do you see young refusing to play 3b if it came down to it?

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 11:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No

If you can present to him a way for this team to win more games, then no.

by tyd3311 on Nov 2, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

publicly...no

But I would bet he would cause a stir in the clubhouse. Word would get around the league and I think it could have an affect on us signing players in the future. Whether it be free agents or our young guys who come up.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Young

Is skilled enough at baseball diplomacy to cast it as another shift to benefit the team. And IMHO he’s probably able to believe it as it sounds out.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Nov 2, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So long as he keeps making good contact

he will have value at the top of the lineup, even with his non-existent power already in full decline. I think he could be above average defensively at 3B, possibly significantly.

Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)

by Chase Irwin on Nov 2, 2008 5:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

so you think that

nothing that their young pitchers are doing in the offseason to prepare for next season is meaningless?

2010 Rangers = 2008 Rays?

by booyahcaveman on Nov 2, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow,

that didnt make sense. "So you think that everything that their young pitchers are doing to prepare for next season is meaningless?

2010 Rangers = 2008 Rays?

by booyahcaveman on Nov 2, 2008 10:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought you meant trade wise

I’m sure Adam did to.

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Nov 2, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough

my fault for not clarifying..

2010 Rangers = 2008 Rays?

by booyahcaveman on Nov 2, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No problem

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Nov 2, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's the spirit!

Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)

by Chase Irwin on Nov 2, 2008 5:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Borbon

I remember some of us had a discussion about exactly how bad/mediocre his arm actually was.

What Rangers outfielder Julio Borbon can’t do: 1) throw the ball.

Um, that’s about it.

OK, slight exaggeration, but Borbon’s offensive potential demands attention.

A supplemental first-round pick last season, Borbon split the season between high Class-A and Double-A and hit .321 with 53 steals. He was a true 80 runner at the University of Tennessee before breaking his ankle, but his speed has bounced back nicely.

He’s so good at making contact that he really doesn’t worry too much about patience at the plate, which means his OBP is always going to be an issue (29 walks in 546 at-bats this season), but there’s a lot to like about the rest of the package.

He has great range in center field, plus makeup, and an excellent work ethic. He hasn’t hit for a ton of pop yet, but there is still a bit more projection in him and he should eventually have some pull power. He’s squaring balls up consistently, and even his outs have been hard-hit balls right at fielders. He needs to be firmly on your radar screen.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Nov 2, 2008 11:08 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hey nikpin

Could you add a link or at least tell where you are getting these reports from? Thanks.

"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn

by DaheelzCM on Nov 2, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry about that

Joey beat me to it.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Nov 2, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So

“He’s so good at making contact that he really doesn’t worry too much about patience at the plate..”

he’s going to kind of be like Ichiro who doesn’t walk that much either :0)?

"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips

by Rangerchick on Nov 2, 2008 11:40 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'll take that

Of the 5 tools I would rank arm as the 4th or 5th most important from my CFer. I don’t see it having an affect on things more than a dozen or so times during the season with perhaps only a couple of those times actually making a difference in a game.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't Lofton

have a weak arm but made up for it in range?

"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips

by Rangerchick on Nov 2, 2008 11:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No

Lofton had a weak arm but made up for it by being traded

by Telegraph on Nov 2, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lolz

"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips

by Rangerchick on Nov 2, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Borbon

I said this when he was drafted- he looks to me like another speedy CF who makes good contact, doesn’t walk much, and has a mediocre arm in center- Juan Pierre.

I suppose there are worse things to be, but I’d rather use Borbon as a trade chip than count on him to be a long-term CF/leadoff solution if he’s going to be Juan Pierre 2.0.

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Nov 2, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he is considered...

…to be better defensively, and have more power, than Pierre.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

True

Maybe Lofton without the .380 OBP, then. I’m not quite sure who would be the right comp there.

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Nov 2, 2008 3:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How about Kenny Lofton?

I think he will be more like a young Kenny Lofton than a Juan Pierre. Maybe not as many steals but I think Borbon will have 7-12 HR power.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not as much

defense, not as much obp, not as much power, not as many steals and not as much arm as Lofton. Other than that …

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Nov 2, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lofton

Lofton didn’t have alot of power in the minors. Borbon has shown more power in the minors than Lofton did and comparable speed. The difference in their arms and range is negligable. The OBP is the only real thing that is significantly different.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is the On-Base Percentage really that different?

Kenny Lofton’s line in the Minor Legues (363 games, only 5 of which came after 1991):
.300/.370/.379

Julio Borbon’s Minor League line (135 games):
.312/.355/.412

The difference between Kenny Lofton’s OBP as a minor leaguer and Julio Borbon’s is .015 (.370 – .355), meaning he got on base one additional time per 66.67 plate appearances. So, what’s that, about once every two weeks?

It’s not uncommon for one to take a position on a player and then seek out all the evidence to support that position, ignoring anything that runs contrary to it. I think I’ve seen the most cases, at least recently, of this with regards to Borbon and Elvis Andrus. Perhaps the late John Kenneth Galbraith said it best when he he said, “Faced with the choice between changing one’s mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof.”

Never say you can't do something, because when you do, you're likely creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh yeah, and know your limits.

by YourNameHere on Nov 2, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the more relevant number there...

…is the spread between BA and OBP. Borbon’s spread is 43 points, Lofton’s is 70. That’s because Lofton was much more willing to take a walk than Borbon.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 2, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah thats what I was looking at

When Lofton was in his prime he was a .320-.330 hitter and still had a 60 or 70 point gap to his OBP. Borbon needs to increase that gap in his from the 40 points it is now to 50-60 to be in Loftons category in that regard. I will live with a .310/.350/.400 line from Borbon don’t get me wrong. But if he could get that up to say .310/.375/.415 then you are looking at a stud no matter how good his arm is.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 5:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll concede...

There I’ll concede. The difference in the spread between batting average and on-base percentage between Kenny Lofton’s Minor League Numbers and Julio Borbon’s is a greater concern. Lofton walked 9.97% of the time and Borbon’s rate is 5.11%. That’s a more valid claim.

Never say you can't do something, because when you do, you're likely creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh yeah, and know your limits.

by YourNameHere on Nov 2, 2008 6:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's still young

so I’m pretty sure he’ll be able to get it up…(runs away)…

"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips

by Rangerchick on Nov 2, 2008 10:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Question is how long will it last

I know I know it was simply too easy

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 3, 2008 8:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Aren't you married?

Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)

by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 9:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't remember back that far to when he was just breaking into the bigs

But as he got older that was his reputation

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 11:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 2, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ichiro with a weaker arm?

Should he be playing CF if he really has that weak of an arm?

by hiafex on Nov 2, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

very rarely does a CF arm even come into play.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No problem, whenever a need arises for Borbon to make a throw

Have Hammy run over to shallow CF and be the cut-off man

by Telegraph on Nov 2, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Or sign Manny

I hear he loves to cut off throws from other outfielders

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 2, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

lol

I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.

by tricer on Nov 2, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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